I am really stuck

[DNA]

I've been married for almost 5 years, all fine and dandy until recently (few months ago) when I found out that my husband had dinner with some woman I also know, conveniently when I was at my parents and although I let few days pass by he never mentioned it. We I found out and confronted him and told him that it was very inconsiderate and that shook my trust. He said that it wasn't a big deal and he didn't even occur his mind that he should have told me. I informed him that I wasn't happy about it and I won't like him to talk to that woman.

 

Well, yesterday I needed to get a phone number from his phone and he was in the shower and with no second thoughts or much expectation just picked his phone...to only see that he called that woman (who is married to his friend who's mostly out of the country but he hasn't known her for that long-probably only 3 years). The thing that bugged me was that I had plans last night with my best girlfriend, my husband got invited but he said that he won't join, and then this call....that only made me think that he was planning all this...

 

What should I think of it?

 

We had then a bid argument and he said that he always leaves under stress with me and he needs his space and some time apart to figure out if he can leave like this and if I could be happy.

 

At this point I don't know what to do to give hi his space or try to get to the root of the problem? He is saying that nothing is going on and I should trust him more and that I have trust issues.

[pollswolls]

Since she's someone you know (as you said) - ASK HER!

 

Your husband, avoiding talking about this - IMO...Screams GUILT! But, don't jump the gun on that one just yet. Check it out for yourself first.

[2sure]

Tell him: "Yes, i do. I have trust issues. And I have come by them honestly. You want space? you want to figure yourself out. I agree, in fact I insist.

 

I want your phone records. You have lied to me and further - insulted my intelligence. I will NOT demean myself by being suspicious and deceitful in digging up information. You will give it to me. I also want to know what her H thinks of this and I feel completely comfortable asking him.

 

We are no longer discussing respect or privacy or what you were doing at dinner. I have no wish to prove you are cheating on me but if you want this marriage to continue you are going to have to prove to me that you are not. Words?? Useless. "

 

I know this seems harsh and it seems hard. I wish I had done this the FIRST time. Either way this turns out, at least you will be having the same conversation and not some bs filled dialog of accusations and defenses.

[DNA]

Tell him: "Yes, i do. I have trust issues. And I have come by them honestly. You want space? you want to figure yourself out. I agree, in fact I insist.

 

I want your phone records. You have lied to me and further - insulted my intelligence. I will NOT demean myself by being suspicious and deceitful in digging up information. You will give it to me. I also want to know what her H thinks of this and I feel completely comfortable asking him.

 

We are no longer discussing respect or privacy or what you were doing at dinner. I have no wish to prove you are cheating on me but if you want this marriage to continue you are going to have to prove to me that you are not. Words?? Useless. "

 

I know this seems harsh and it seems hard. I wish I had done this the FIRST time. Either way this turns out, at least you will be having the same conversation and not some bs filled dialog of accusations and defenses.

 

Thank you for your advise. Unfortunately every time when I confront him he shuts off and doesn't want to talk. He actually said last night that he hasn't been happy for a year now and although overall we he is happy 90% of the time, the fact that we are arguing (10% of the time) that's all that he remembers. Kinda caught me by surprise, since we only argue because of stuff that he does, like the two instances I mentioned.

[DNA]

Since she's someone you know (as you said) - ASK HER!

 

Your husband, avoiding talking about this - IMO...Screams GUILT! But, don't jump the gun on that one just yet. Check it out for yourself first.

 

Well he gets upset that I don't trust him and that is his problem. He says that I have trust issues and he can't live under this constant stress. I am a pretty reasonable person and I acknowledge that I have these truest issues which I hate myself that I am going through this. But I feel that he is not helping at all, more going against me.

 

And I don't even know what to ask HER and if she is going to be honest with me. I only imagine how my husband will flip out if he finds out. Ahhhhh...I apologize for so many questions I am just trying to figure it out.

 

And I ,mentioned that maybe MC might help and he of course says that he doesn't believe in that.

 

I might just need to move out and let him realize what he might lose.

[confusedinkansas]

I had a personal counselor once tell me that your GUT instinct is usually right. If your gut tells you something's rotten - 9 out of 10 times IT IS.

 

I personally smell a rat here.

1st he's claiming nothing happened & then he says he's been unhappy for a year.

 

Why do you care what he will think if you ask the other woman what happened? I'd ask her. I'd ask her to her face though so that she can't hem & haw her way around it over the phone.

IF he gets mad about your asking, then that to you should say that there is MOST DEFINITELY something going on.

 

Also, same counselor told me that some people need to be jarred back to reality. So, maybe he's one of those that doesn't believe you mean business. If you move out - He'll know. BUT, if you do, HOPE for the best but definitely prepare yourself for the WORST.

[The Midnight Rider]

Sorry. Take this from a man. When men cheat, we are like criminals. We look for the perfect opportunity and then we lunge at it like when you are gone. After reading what you said with the secrecy and the defensiveness, I have no doubt if he isn't cheating, he's about to.

 

So now the ball is in your court. What do you want to do? Save your marriage or leave? If you want to leave, confront him, ensure that he knows that you know, be relentless in your pursuit of the truth, let him shut down and then leave. That's the easiest thing to do. If you want to stay, your gonna have to lay all of your cards on the table together and be honest with each other about what's missing in you marriage. Won't be easy, and there's no guarantees. No matter what, I wish you luck.

[JumpinJimmy]

Red flags galore. A married man going out to dinner with a woman that is not his wife or a close family member is completely innapropriate, and is not what married men do. Combine this with the deception of not telling you, and it fits most people's definition of cheating. You need to start the full monty surveillance...key logger, phone records, GPS in the car, the works. Be prepared for what you may find out as it doesn't sound good. I wish you well.

[junglejim]

I am rarely on the side of guys and although your husband does sound like he is hiding something, I see a lot of recommendations for firing the canons before anyone has any proof and without being sure it will help you. I also have to disagree with JumpinJimmy;

 

"A married man going out to dinner with a woman that is not his wife or a close family member is completely innapropriate, and is not what married men do."

 

I have never been unfaithful to any woman, ever. I do however have lunch and dinners and drinks with female friends and with female contacts through work on a regular basis. I have found that many partners who have been previously cheated on, cannot stand you having female friends so you have two choices, end those friendships or strictly limit any communication with those friends.

 

That being said, I suspect your husband's dinner date and phone call were experiments to see how he feels and his friends wife may be encouraging that experimentation because she is lonely with her husband away. Therefore I suspect he is feeling guilty for what he was thinking about doing, not for what he has done.

 

Usually, if any serious level of involvement (sex-emotion etc) has taken place, you would see a lot more than one dinner and one phone call. Illicit affairs usually create a burning desire to communicate which means a lot of calls, emails or texting.

 

If you cannot find anything more than a single phone call don't assume the worst. I think his statement that he has been unhappy for a year is far more to be worried about than any dinner. It means that he has been unhappy and you have been blissfully unaware of that for a long time. So there is little or no communication from him about how he feels and instead of trying to fix the situation he is looking to run from it.

 

If I were you, because he will undoubtedly have been focusing on what to say about the dinner and the call and will be highly defensive, leave that alone and CALMLY make him talk about why he is unhappy. You will find out more about the problem at the root of the issue and he may drop information about the dinner and the call without realizing. Treat it as an analytical discussion, try to keep your emotions out of it and this will reduce his defensiveness.

 

If he refuses to talk about it, then you can give ultimatums or say it's over etc.

 

In any case I am sorry you are feeling this way and I hope it works out.

[JumpinJimmy]

JJ, I may be a little old school with the way I view M/W ralationships, but you're playing with fire. The OP never said what kind of dinner it was, so maybe I should clarify. If it was a one on one dinner or drinks, with no other people in attendance, then it is innappropriate even for business. Combine that with hiding it, and he has just betrayed her trust. If there were several people present, then the dinner/drinks itself is harmless, but the failure to reveal it is red flag....just a flag, not a condemnation. Now JJ, back to DNA and friends, I don't want to hijack her post.

[stuckinoz]

It is inappropriate PERIOD for a married man/woman to have a one on one lunch, dinner, drinks .... anything - without their wives/husbands knowledge.

 

If it is a "Business Dinner" then what's the big deal to tell your spouse.

 

On the other hand, if he's being sneaky...Which seems more logical considering his "I'm not Happy" comment - Well then it's just plain wrong.

 

I'm with polls...I think that the original poster here needs to call or visit this other woman. If you know her, it should be no big deal to just toss it out there in conversation.

 

since we only argue because of stuff that he does, like the two instances I mentioned.

Wow this could be my marriage - I just figured it was a GUY thing. MEN just don't get a lot of stuff!

[JumpinJimmy]

SIT, exactly what kind of line of work are you in? What can you possibly be wheeling and dealing in to have a one on one dinner with someone from work that cannot be accomplished during normal business hours? You must be one of them 51% that wear the pants in the family, because I know my wife would not do such a thing out of respect for me. To be frank, whomever is in charge of your depratment must be well loved by all of the husbands, and if you have a job in which you have no supervisor, then the fomer holds true about the 51%. Down in Texas it may be different, but the vast majority of MM would encourage their wives to get in a different line of work.

[confusedinkansas]

I own my company, so wining and dining is one part of it. .

 

You are single & do this - No problem. But the original posters husband is MARRIED.

 

I understand business dinners - I understand wining & dining people. But if you were married wouldn't you say to your husband, "Oh by the way I'm having dinner this evening with Bill from Accounting for whatever reason" ... Why would it need to be kept a secret. Why would you need to lie if it were an above board business dinner?

 

Do that many husbands & wives not communicate on a daily basis as to what they are doing in the course of a given day?

[JumpinJimmy]

I am single, but involved, and the man I am involved with, as well as those in the past, have appreciated my drive, my success and my ability to hold my own. .

 

SIT, big difference then being married no matter how much you think it is the same.You are comparing apples to oranges. Your boyfriend tolerates it because he has no other choice but to do so. Fast foward 10 yrs, get married, have children and the tune will be different out of respect for your marriage to your husband.

 

I own my company, so wining and dining is one part of it. I provide services for non-profit corps where all of the board members are volunteers who have regular jobs during the days. Back to back meetings and such sometimes requires doing business over a meal

 

You do not schedule things to avoid having 1 on 1 dinners with memebers of the oppostie sex, because at the current time and status with your relationship you do not have too.

 

Commited married men do not have, and will avoid, one on one dinners with women that are not their wives/immediate family memebrs. The OP has a right to be concerned and confront her husband.

[DNA]

I have read all of your comments and thank you for trying to help me out in this difficult time.

 

I wanted to let you know of the new developments. My H came home last night with flowers and apologized for what he's done (he said that flowers are not because he feels guilty but because he feels sorry for making me go through all this). He said that he wants to leave this in the past and that he realized that he can't live with me and that he loves me.

 

As for the calls and dinners he said that he didn't even imagine that those can cause such pain as it wasn't much thing to him. He also mentioned about this two other instances that might sound suspicious to me and he wants me to know about them (having lunch with another married woman that I know and he is friends with her husband and they have a lot of problems in their marriage and she just wanted to talk about it since my H knows her H well; and then him dropping home a girl I know after a party which I knew he is going to cause he was asked by friends to).

 

He said that the reason wasn't thinking much about these dinners/lunches or calls is based on something that happened in the past, which I want to find out about (did he have an open relationship that I don't know about?) and he said that in the future he'll think twice about what he's doing and if he is about to do stuff that can potentially upset me not to do them. AND then he said that he will try to be more discrete about it (HA? I don't know he understand the meaning of that word in that context)

 

Well he asked to come and sleep in the bedroom, and I said no since I want to get to the bottom of all of this cause I told him I don't want to end up in the same situation a month, 6 months from now.

[JumpinJimmy]

SIT, you certainly keep adding more and more, You're entitled to your opinion, but I am sure the vast majority of men agree with the innappropriateness of one on one dinners. You still haven't explained why it is critical for you to have one on one dinners with these men, and why you wouldn't show the respect to your SO by avoiding them.

Edited October 17, 2009 by JumpinJimmy

[JumpinJimmy]

SIT, you asked

 

I don't know what you mean by adding more and more..

that is because in the first post you indicated that you disagreed with me, which is fine. Next, when I pressed you with the 51% post, you volunteered this

I am single, but involved, and the man I am involved with, as well as those in the past, have appreciated my drive, my success and my ability to hold my own. They understand the dynamics of what I do.

after, another poster indicated that they are not the same, and then you responded by

No, I was in the same business when I was married for ten years

which you could have easily put in the

I am single, but involved, and the man I am involved with, as well as those in the past

post, so it makes you sound like you changed your tune to suit the argument....that is all.

 

Next, you're right that you didn't say critical, I did. I just assumed that you wouldn't support going on a 1 to1 dinner with a male client, while being married, unless it was critical. By pointing out the fact that you used the word necessary instead of critical, you just weakened your case to do so.

 

You said

It's really irrelevant to me what you think about it.

.

Obviously, it is not irrelevant for the sake of your argument or you wouldn't be explaining to everyone. Personally, I could care less as well.

 

Secondly,

For you to be so anal about a woman having a career that necessitates solo interaction with men makes me think that you don't think a woman can be professional enough to handle business on her own without it turning into something else

As I am sure you know, we are both posting to a thread (office crush)that has an element of that exact situation going on. I am not the one going against a generation of conventional wisdom here, you are, therefore if you want to make a case and get the OP and others to listen, then you might have to explain you're situation in a little more detail. Don't take it personal and explain it to me like I am condemning you're view , I am not. What works for you, works for you, but you're the one going upstream. Let's just agree to disagree and let this thread get back on track.

Edited October 17, 2009 by JumpinJimmy