So how am I doing?

[Doodlebug]

This is really long. I'm sorry for that, but I don't feel comfortable telling my real life friends about the situation and dealing with their judgment, so I really appreciate having this forum available to me. If you stick it out and read (or skim!) the whole thing, please comment. Thanks!

 

Three days ago I was trying to check my email but accidentally pulled up my H's account, as he hadn't logged out on our shared computer. No big deal, plus I like to keep an eye on his mail since he has some compulsive spending habits we're trying to work on and usually a spending binge is indicated by an email from PayPal or an online retailer or the bank. But his first message was a picture from a Verizon phone. I opened the attachment and found myself looking at a naked woman. I could hardly believe it. My sweet boy, the one who maybe had some growing up to do and maybe wasn't always perfect, but he'd never cheat on me...was kind of cheating on me.

 

I say that because I know the term means different things to different people and not everyone finds dirty photos to be infidelity. But there was no ambiguity here. We'd had this talk. I'd found images of shared female friends (gathered from their MySpaces and Facebooks) in with my xBF's porn folders, unambiguous in their purpose. It hurt me horribly. I looked at craigslist on his computer and found he'd been clicking around the "casual encounters" ads. This was not okay. So I've told my H the rules according to Doodlebug: masturbate early and often, sure, but not to someone you know. I enjoy my porn and you can enjoy yours, but it should never take on an emotional role. Just like how in some movies you end up hating a character and that transfers to his or her roles in other films, sexually satisfying yourself to someone you interact with in real life probably causes some weird emotions when you see that person again, even if it started as just an appreciation for that person's appearance. Also, there's no shortage of naked women on the internet.

 

So there she was. Someone who'd sent him a couple naked pictures months ago, actually. He'd told me about how she sent it and immediately sent an email that said it was a mistake and she meant to send it to someone else. That's fine, I've sent an errant naughty pic via email myself. We laughed, and that was that. I certainly didn't like the girl much, but he barely saw or spoke to her.

 

I didn't hear about her again until recently (within the month) when she began talking to H about a friend of his she'd like to pursue. Well, that's what the discussions were supposedly about. I have no way of knowing. But here she was, sending him dirty pictures of herself, again. I woke H up and demanded an answer. He claimed he hadn't seen the image (though the email had been previously opened), and he didn't know why she was doing this. I demanded to see his phone to verify against his address book that it was indeed the same woman. He hesitated. He felt he was being accused of something and how could I just demand to see his phone like I needed proof? I told him he WAS being accused and if he had nothing to hide he'd hand it over. A little more panicky questions from me and a little more shock at the intrusion on his privacy from him and he handed over the phone, after clicking a few buttons first.

 

Of course I yelled at him for not just handing it to me and told him what a dick he looked like now that all his text messages were empty (a week or so ago he'd mentioned that no matter what, he always saves my and his best friend's texts). He claimed he'd cleaned them out earlier that day. Sure. Of course. So over the next day he kept claiming she was some crazy girl who clearly didn't understand the parameters of their friendship while I kept smelling BS. Bull****, not betrayed spouse. Eventually a little poking on his phone the next day revealed more pictures of her from a week or so before. No conversations, but enough to confirm the whole "more than some confused chick" theory.

 

I was livid and I told him so. I cried and screamed at him and hit him as we walked around a parking lot and an adjacent neighborhood. Now, I'm so self-conscious I won't send back a poorly prepared meal in a restaurant. To not care that I was loud and disheveled and broadcasting news from the front lines of our relationship was more than a little out of character. He kept apologizing. It was a one time thing and he was sorry and stupid. Some stupid indiscretion was not worth ending the relationship and he'd do anything to make it up to me. I didn't want to be near him. I told him I'd walk home. I of course ended up getting back in the car with him because he's persistent and I love him. I was so angry and hurt.

 

He said it was after a fight we'd had. He said he was lonely and bored and upset. I've been all those things - this, after all, isn't MY hometown and MY friends aren't on every corner - but I'd never carry on some kind of text/picture-based relationship with anyone. Hell, he's so abused and neglected, but I'm the one who always wants to hang out with him and I'm the one who takes care of the dog and packs his lunches and who washes our clothes. But he's put upon and needs an escape. I told him all this and he agreed that he was dumb and horrible.

 

And like I said, we're in agreement. He was a jackass. But he's not always one. Actually, most of the time he's sweet and considerate and gentle and good. And he's patient with my flaws. So for that and a hundred other reasons I don't expect anyone to understand, we're working on it, trying to repair the relationship.

 

We wrote a mission statement. We described our core values as a couple. We made daily and weekly lists and set aside time for things that will improve us. If Friday is date night, we both know we have to do something special and we can't wonder when the last time was that we did something together. If Monday is for household chores, there's no reason to yell at one another over things not getting done. Split the list down the middle and do it. Every day we have a simple list of routines, from washing the dishes to going over five things we're thankful for before bed. We've got a plan, and we've both renewed our will to work towards it. I told him every month on the tenth I'll reevaluate the relationship. That means don't stick with the plan a couple weeks or a month and think you can slack off. Man up. If it's so important, if you value the relationship so much, do the work to maintain it. That goes for me, too.

 

And I sent a Facebook message to the OW, that if you'd like to read I can post here. Basically, "You should really not have done that with someone else's partner, but you're not the one who sneaked around and broke promises to me. I know he's the one to be angriest at. And if you never, ever talk to him again, I'll be happy to forget you exist." Then I unfriended her from his Facebook.

 

Today I told him what I need to forgive him. I told him that in addition to everything else we've discussed, I need utter transparency. That because he made me sleuth out his deception, I needed to have instant access to every single online profile he has, every email account, and his phone, on demand. That if he signs up for some new website or email address, he'll tell me. That way if I get the slightest funny feeling and find he has a new account somewhere, I don't have to wonder if it was innocent or if he really made it to sneak around again. He knows that if I find anything like this, it's over. No more chances. No more stories. And I think in time, with consistent work on our parts and lots of shiny, empty inboxes, I'll forgive him.

 

What do you guys think? Every hour or so I'm still devastated, seemingly anew, but in tiny ways I can feel it getting better. I let him touch me yesterday and it felt nice. Today we're going to the gym after a year of both of us falling off our fitness plans. I feel optimistic, you know, when my heart doesn't feel like it's died within my chest.

 

So any suggestions or observations are welcome. Please. I really don't have anyone I can talk to about this, and I've seen so much good conversation around these parts in my few hours of lurking before I signed up.

Edited October 12, 2009 by Doodlebug
clarifying some wording and fixing a typo

[Fallen Angel]

I wish you luck, though you don't seem to need it.

 

You seem like the type of gal who will not let herself be placed second, EVER!

 

Just be careful that with all your "routines" things don't become too boring. Make room for some sponteneity in your relationship.

 

If it is too rigorous, he may start slipping away just for a little freedom...

[eyeswide]

I think this part is most worrisome:

He said it was after a fight we'd had. He said he was lonely and bored and upset. I've been all those things - this, after all, isn't MY hometown and MY friends aren't on every corner - but I'd never carry on some kind of text/picture-based relationship with anyone. Hell, he's so abused and neglected, but I'm the one who always wants to hang out with him and I'm the one who takes care of the dog and packs his lunches and who washes our clothes. But he's put upon and needs an escape. I told him all this and he agreed that he was dumb and horrible.

 

 

 

 

So basically it's your fault. Regardless of whether he's willing to be utterly transparent going forward or not, if this is still his POV, he thinks the behavior itself was justified. That, to me, is a problem.

 

Everything you've put into place sounds right-minded, but I'm a bit worried that this is the dynamic of a strong woman and her misbehaving boy. I believe he wants to do right but there's just something that smells like passive-aggressivity that he's not really looking at and in this environment where you are demanding his transparency, I can see him wanting to escape back into his behavior as a form of rebellion/revenge.

 

Does that mean you should demand less than utter transparency? Unh-unh. It means he needs to offer it up and see that he owes you at least that. And he needs to stop blaming you or the dynamics in the relationship for the choice that he made.

[Athena]

Sounds like an awful lot of hard work, on your part, to keep him in line.

Why the hell can't he make that decision for himself?!

 

All I know, from experience, is that no matter how much a man loves you, if he is keen on wandering elsewhere sexually speaking, with another woman, the more force you put on him to remain loyal and faithful, and transparent, and on track, the more resentful they become of you over time.

 

He appears to be fine for now, because you two have a plan worked out, and perhaps it's easier for him to stick to it rather than cop out and lose you completely... but what is the likelihood that he will WANT to do this forever more?

 

He's gonna get tired of being policed, and also... the roles you two have taken on -- you the police officer, him the suspect, will ensure to some degree that you two continue with this Script.

 

It's just an infinite game, we all play one way or another... there's no winner or loser here... you just continue playing off each other's moves... sigh... what a horrible existence... never letting your guard down, always wondering what he's up to, trying your best to do whatever you can to please him, but never knowing if it's good enough for him, from his perspective... it's like, once they eff up, it's lost... it's a lost cause, because they 'get away' with it to some level... now he is on the straight and narrow, but only so far as you can see him...

 

It's so much work.

 

Why doesn't this come naturally to him?!

[Fallen Angel]

Everything you've put into place sounds right-minded, but I'm a bit worried that this is the dynamic of a strong woman and her misbehaving boy. .

 

I have a feeling that THIS will be the downfall... if you can not figure out how to forgive and trust again, you will always be playing Mommy/Cop and he will always be playing Little Boy/Prisoner and neither of you will be able to be happy in those roles. Little boys are always testing their limits with mommy and no one wants to feel like a prisoner in their own home.

 

Perhaps rather than turning your home and lives into a regimented relationship boot-camp, you should seek couples counseling. Just my opinion. *shrug*

[65tr6]

I may have missed it in your story. How long have you been married ? Do you have any kids ?

 

Has he told you everything about ALL the affairs he has had so far ?

 

What does he want ? does he even know ?

 

Is he remorseful ?

 

How would you rate his self-esteem (no need to know yours, i can guess ) ?

 

do you love him, do you want to fight for your marriage ?

[2sure]

I have recently discovered I am married to a serial cheater. I say recently , only because it IS recent that I realized the extent of his infidelity. A few years ago, what I discovered was exactly what you have. And like yourself, we decided together to "recover". I thought we had. But thats got nothing to do with your marriage or H, my advise however does. I was like you - open minded regarding porn, friends, even sex. Respectful of his and expected my own privacy. Trust had to be a given.

 

But I read somewhere something I wish I would have realized early on:

 

Transparency never hurts a marriage, but privacy does.

[Doodlebug]

I may have missed it in your story. How long have you been married ? Do you have any kids ?

 

Has he told you everything about ALL the affairs he has had so far ?

 

What does he want ? does he even know ?

 

Is he remorseful ?

 

How would you rate his self-esteem (no need to know yours, i can guess ) ?

 

do you love him, do you want to fight for your marriage ?

About one year, no kids or plans for them.

 

Like I said, we're on day three since finding the first image, so there's more to know. He hasn't told me any more than I've been able to eek out, and when I don't bring it up, he doesn't, either.

 

He seems remorseful, yes. As for his self-esteem, it's a funny thing. He's got a strong network of friends and family, much more than I do, he has a general idea of a life plan he's working towards, and he's a pretty laid-back guy. But he's not as far towards his career goal as he'd like to be and he's pretty overweight, something he doesn't bring up often but does bother him a bit. He seems pretty happy and he thinks he's a pretty good guy, because he is.

 

And I love him. He can be a crappy roommate sometimes, but he's a wonderful partner. We're both new to relationships and being independent and the stress is definitely getting to us, but I want to try. And he says he does, too.

 

 

And I am reading the other posts, but I'm not responding yet until I think about them more, as they bring up great points. God knows I don't want to be the Mom/policewoman any more than he wants to be the child/suspect.

[NowhereToHide]

It seems to me that you have set up your entire marriage, even before his transgression, to be you as mom and him as your "little boy". As I read your post I was continually struck by the need you have for power in the relationship. It doesn't sound like a relationship based on equality.

 

To be honest, I'm not sure what you should do. I think you've set up your expectations to him clearly. But I would look a bit deeper into the dynamic of your relationship. Perhaps marriage counseling could help you both.

[seibert253]

Doodlebug, that's one of the best smackdown's I've read in a while. If he really loves you, he'll see the error of his ways and do what's right.

 

I'm sure he now see's the love you have for him to fight so hard. I'm in aww. Hope everything works out.

 

Peace,

[Doodlebug]

It seems to me that you have set up your entire marriage, even before his transgression, to be you as mom and him as your "little boy". As I read your post I was continually struck by the need you have for power in the relationship. It doesn't sound like a relationship based on equality.

To be fair, when I call him my boy, we're both 24. I understand your comment still applies, but it's not as weird as someone in her thirties calling her husband a boy. Just to point that out.

 

And I gave up some power and relented on buying soda. I think it's a waste of money and calories, but he loves the stuff. It was kind of fun to surprise him, as we had a couple extra bucks after we went through the line at the grocery store and then I grabbed the change, ran to get the bottles. He was really pleasantly surprised. I gotta do stuff like this more often. He's making a lot of changes, in his words, "to be a better man for us", so I need to ease up. It's true.

[NowhereToHide]

To be fair, when I call him my boy, we're both 24. I understand your comment still applies, but it's not as weird as someone in her thirties calling her husband a boy. Just to point that out.

 

And I gave up some power and relented on buying soda. I think it's a waste of money and calories, but he loves the stuff. It was kind of fun to surprise him, as we had a couple extra bucks after we went through the line at the grocery store and then I grabbed the change, ran to get the bottles. He was really pleasantly surprised. I gotta do stuff like this more often. He's making a lot of changes, in his words, "to be a better man for us", so I need to ease up. It's true.

 

 

Doodle, forgive me but "allowing" your husband to buy soda is exactly what I'm talking about. A marriage should be one of equals... of course there are compromises involved -- MANY. But that's another example of the mom/child dynamic that seems to be going on (in my opinion of course). A child is told they can't have soda, not a husband. If my husband wanted to buy a 12 pack of coke and a box of cookies, he can. He's a big boy and he is fully aware of the consequences to his heart and waistline if he does.

 

I'm not here to bash you by any means. I just think that this dynamic you have going on in your marriage could be partly to blame for his behavior. The whole thing of having "nude" pictures on your cellphone reeks of immaturity. It's like he's acting like a child because he's treated like one.

 

Again, this is something that you should think about exploring in MC. I bet a lot would come out and could end up helping the dynamic in the long run.

[Doodlebug]

Well, it's part of the money issue I kind of alluded to earlier. Due to some, well, a lot, of bad spending in the past, we have to watch money a lot. A lot a lot. And while I have $2,000 of student loans, he's $15,000 or so in debt on five or six credit cards. I'm not really sure what the solution to one person being completely out of control when it comes to spending when the other isn't. You know, without acting like one person is in charge or the overseer of the relationship.

[Fallen Angel]

I really think marriage counseling is in order... FAST!!!

 

I can't imagine being "surprised" that my SO "allowed" me to have a pepsi.

 

I can not possibly be the only one here who sees how demeaning that must feel to the husband.

 

OP, here is my honest opinion.... it is only my opinion so take it or leave it but here it is...

 

You need to stop trying to be the Warden in the prison you are calling a marriage. If I was being that rigidly controlled in every aspect of my life I would do something, anything, everything I could to take back some of my own power.

 

I am of an old school belief that if you want a man to be a man you have to LET him be a man.

 

You seem to be exerting more "parental control" on your husband than I do on my six year old daughter.

 

If you continue to emotionally castrate your husband, you can expect that he will seek other ways of feeling like a man that don't involve you.

 

I am not saying that your behaviour makes it okay for him to cheat, please do not for a minute think I am saying that is okay, but, I am saying that even as a woman I can see his side of this and his desire to want to assert himself and having no outlet for his masculine drive the way things are right now.

 

I urge you to seek help, if you learn to loosen the reigns a little bit, i am sure he would be willing to take up the slack and become more responsible... Just my thoughts...

Edited October 13, 2009 by Fallen Angel

[NowhereToHide]

Well, it's part of the money issue I kind of alluded to earlier. Due to some, well, a lot, of bad spending in the past, we have to watch money a lot. A lot a lot. And while I have $2,000 of student loans, he's $15,000 or so in debt on five or six credit cards. I'm not really sure what the solution to one person being completely out of control when it comes to spending when the other isn't. You know, without acting like one person is in charge or the overseer of the relationship.

 

No, I get you with the finances. That is hard since usually there does have to be one person who takes the "reigns" so to speak to make sure that the spending doesn't get out of hand. I get you.

 

I would just caution you, though, that there might be resentment on his part with having his world a little too controlled. Even on a budget, we all need to have a few "wants" in addition to our needs met.

 

Does he feel too controlled in the relationship? Does he feel as though he has no power? Does he feel free to voice his opinion with regard to household matters? These are things I would explore with him.

[Athena]

I really think marriage counseling is in order... FAST!!!

 

I can't imagine being "surprised" that my SO "allowed" me to have a pepsi.

 

I can not possibly be the only one here who sees how demeaning that must feel to the husband.

 

OP, here is my honest opinion.... it is only my opinion so take it or leave it but here it is...

 

You need to stop trying to be the Warden in the prison you are calling a marriage. If I was being that rigidly controlled in every aspect of my life I would do something, anything, everything I could to take back some of my own power.

 

I am of an old school belief that if you want a man to be a man you have to LET him be a man.

 

You seem to be exerting more "parental control" on your husband than I do on my six year old daughter.

 

If you continue to emotionally castrate your husband, you can expect that he will seek other ways of feeling like a man that don't involve you.

 

I am not saying that your behaviour makes it okay for him to cheat, please do not for a minute think I am saying that is okay, but, I am saying that even as a woman I can see his side of this and his desire to want to assert himself and having no outlet for his masculine drive the way things are right now.

 

I urge you to seek help, if you learn to loosen the reigns a little bit, i am sure he would be willing to take up the slack and become more responsible... Just my thoughts...

 

I agree with this

[boomboom63]

Doodlebug - I think you have communicated YOUR points very well. I think your H has definitely got it - communication is the key here - are you happy that HE is communicating with you?

 

I read your post with a lump in my throat, this must be very hard for you and my heart goes out to you. MC is also a good option because if you are both committed to it it helps communication.

 

hugs to you

[misternoname]

His explanation of how the pictures ended up on your computer sounds like utter BS. Cheaters are very clever at explaining compromising situations so that they appear innocuous but I'm willing to bet the farm that a lot more is going on than he is willing to admit.

 

Been there...heard that...it was all lies :-(

[Doodlebug]

It really feels to me like I've been misread here. I know everyone's trying to be honest, but this soda thing is taking on a life of it's own and it isn't representative of our relationship. We're in our mid-twenties. Deeply in debt compared to the money we make. We had thirty dollars for groceries this week and we're not entirely sure when or how we'll be able to get together money for next week.

 

My H is a wonderful guy, but has no concept of delayed gratification. If we have ground beef and chicken in the freezer, 99 times out of 100 he'll say to thaw out the ground beef. If our choice is to walk the dog now, while it's cooler outside, or later, he'll pick later, because at least it's not now. Every time. I love the crap out of him and he helps me, because I'm a worrier and I tend to freak out over things, but he needs someone on his end keeping his impulsiveness and unwillingness to prepare in check. My purpose in relaying the soda anecdote was to explain how I'm trying to loosen up and be more in the moment and it turned into me allowing him to have a soda. Right now three dollars and a 180 calories a can is a lot more of a big deal that I ever want it to be again.

 

We lack a lot of planing and organization in our lives, so together we came up with some rituals and lists to help us. So he can't look at me and say, "But I don't know what to do," and I can't look at him and say, "There's so much to do and I'm so overwhelmed."

 

I didn't enter this relationship looking to be someone's mom. I fell for a guy who turned into an adolescent when we began living together, who wasn't used to living without his mom, the cleaning fairy, around every corner. And I was new to it too, but no one ever had to tell me that Fabreeze doesn't make a dirty shirt clean. It's like we got married and while I grew up and started acting like an adult in regards to household things, he just accepted that there was now someone who would play that same, familiar role for him.

 

Sorry. It's just weird being the one who makes almost all the meals and the one who doesn't go and open secret credit cards for the purpose of buying video games and Blu-Ray players and who doesn't go about sexting with people and being told that that kind of rigidity is a bad thing. We discuss saving and not buying things and the next day I find receipts from Best Buy in his pockets (when I, inevitably, am doing laundry) that he didn't mention to me. I wouldn't go into a blind rage if he told me about things he wants to purchase, but I do tell him no, it endangers our financial future, and he just does it anyway.

 

I feel like, I am obligated freeze or cut up credit cards and I can say we can go cash for all our purchases, but it's not because I'm an accountant or someone really into the master-slave dynamic, but because I want us to have a chance and I don't want money to tear us apart like it does for a lot of people. I just worry that without money to spend, he'll do something else. He has free time. He has friends. He has a lot of fun things to do in the apartment and outside of it, but it's the fix of fast food and purchasing that he needs. And I worry that without the money to throw around on things like that, he'll do things that cost less. Like texting stupid girls.

 

I just wish I didn't have to freeze the cards. I wish I didn't have to either make a meal or fight him over ordering pizza. I wish he'd jump up and walk our pup or make the bed or pack his lunch the night before. And I worry that all the systems and all the plans in the world aren't enough to stand in for him just...growing up. A credit card in a block of ice doesn't mean you've developed self-control. At all. He says with all his heart that he wants to change and improve and be the man he should be, and I want to believe him, but we've had so many false starts. I'm tired of doing the majority of the work around here and it's making me bitchy and naggy like I don't want to be.

 

Ugh. And I'd love to go to MC. The money's not there. Hell, Debtor's Anonymous is free and I can't even get him to go there. It's so confusing. I know I love him. I know how nothing has ever felt like being in his arms or being able to make him laugh or having him look at me when we're in a group. But this domestic/financial stuff is hard. And it's casting a shadow over everything.

[NowhereToHide]

It really feels to me like I've been misread here. I know everyone's trying to be honest, but this soda thing is taking on a life of it's own and it isn't representative of our relationship. We're in our mid-twenties. Deeply in debt compared to the money we make. We had thirty dollars for groceries this week and we're not entirely sure when or how we'll be able to get together money for next week.

 

My H is a wonderful guy, but has no concept of delayed gratification. If we have ground beef and chicken in the freezer, 99 times out of 100 he'll say to thaw out the ground beef. If our choice is to walk the dog now, while it's cooler outside, or later, he'll pick later, because at least it's not now. Every time. I love the crap out of him and he helps me, because I'm a worrier and I tend to freak out over things, but he needs someone on his end keeping his impulsiveness and unwillingness to prepare in check. My purpose in relaying the soda anecdote was to explain how I'm trying to loosen up and be more in the moment and it turned into me allowing him to have a soda. Right now three dollars and a 180 calories a can is a lot more of a big deal that I ever want it to be again.

 

We lack a lot of planing and organization in our lives, so together we came up with some rituals and lists to help us. So he can't look at me and say, "But I don't know what to do," and I can't look at him and say, "There's so much to do and I'm so overwhelmed."

 

I didn't enter this relationship looking to be someone's mom. I fell for a guy who turned into an adolescent when we began living together, who wasn't used to living without his mom, the cleaning fairy, around every corner. And I was new to it too, but no one ever had to tell me that Fabreeze doesn't make a dirty shirt clean. It's like we got married and while I grew up and started acting like an adult in regards to household things, he just accepted that there was now someone who would play that same, familiar role for him.

 

Sorry. It's just weird being the one who makes almost all the meals and the one who doesn't go and open secret credit cards for the purpose of buying video games and Blu-Ray players and who doesn't go about sexting with people and being told that that kind of rigidity is a bad thing. We discuss saving and not buying things and the next day I find receipts from Best Buy in his pockets (when I, inevitably, am doing laundry) that he didn't mention to me. I wouldn't go into a blind rage if he told me about things he wants to purchase, but I do tell him no, it endangers our financial future, and he just does it anyway.

 

I feel like, I am obligated freeze or cut up credit cards and I can say we can go cash for all our purchases, but it's not because I'm an accountant or someone really into the master-slave dynamic, but because I want us to have a chance and I don't want money to tear us apart like it does for a lot of people. I just worry that without money to spend, he'll do something else. He has free time. He has friends. He has a lot of fun things to do in the apartment and outside of it, but it's the fix of fast food and purchasing that he needs. And I worry that without the money to throw around on things like that, he'll do things that cost less. Like texting stupid girls.

 

I just wish I didn't have to freeze the cards. I wish I didn't have to either make a meal or fight him over ordering pizza. I wish he'd jump up and walk our pup or make the bed or pack his lunch the night before. And I worry that all the systems and all the plans in the world aren't enough to stand in for him just...growing up. A credit card in a block of ice doesn't mean you've developed self-control. At all. He says with all his heart that he wants to change and improve and be the man he should be, and I want to believe him, but we've had so many false starts. I'm tired of doing the majority of the work around here and it's making me bitchy and naggy like I don't want to be.

 

Ugh. And I'd love to go to MC. The money's not there. Hell, Debtor's Anonymous is free and I can't even get him to go there. It's so confusing. I know I love him. I know how nothing has ever felt like being in his arms or being able to make him laugh or having him look at me when we're in a group. But this domestic/financial stuff is hard. And it's casting a shadow over everything.

 

I'm really sorry for everything you're dealing with right now. It sounds like you have the weight of the world on your shoulders.

 

I absolutely get where you are with all of this. You have been forced into this role because a marriage of "equals" isn't possible with him. He sounds incredibly immature.

 

I know you love him, but can you see yourself living like this for the rest of your life? You being the only one trying to save what you have? It sounds like something needs to give. I understand that marriage counseling isn't an option -- I know how expensive therapy can be.

 

I wish I had more advice to give. I'm not sure if the pictures on the cellphone are really something to worry about or if they are just signs of a "cheap thrill" for someone that isn't acting like an adult.

 

Hang in there. And I'm sorry that we misread your last post.

[Fallen Angel]

I too, want to apologize for any misunderstanding. i was just giving my opinion as an outsider without all of the facts.

 

I still stand by my position though, that if you want a man to behave like a man, you have to allow him the opportunity to be a man.

 

What I mean by that is that you have been placed in "mommy role" by his immaturity, and you feel you have NO CHOICE. I get that, I really do.

 

But what if you stopped taking all the responsibility for the finances? Just said to him.. "I don't want to be the responsible one for this anymore, it is your job as my husband to provide for me finacially (that doesn't mean he has to earn ALL THE MONEY) and to be RESPONSIBLE in making decisions for our family that will lead to the best life possible. I am handing the responsibility back to you, and I trust completely that you will do what is right for us and our future."

 

And then just let him have it.. let him carry that load.

 

The way I see it there are two possible outcomes. He could concievably completely screw it up, and continue in his irresponsible ways.

 

OR, he could realise that it is time he grew up, know that you are counting on him to do the right thing, and that you trust that he loves you enough to do what is right, and actually GROW into the man you want him to be.

 

If you do not give him the oppourtunity for that, it will NEVER happen.

 

But if you do, you just may be rewarded with the husband you want him to be.

 

My opinion is that you love him, and you should at least give him the chance to prove he loves you as much. *shrugs*