MistyK Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 <<< You make it sound like I have found a new peg to hang everything on. Translation: Damn Athena, you're totally right, so let me try some basic reverse psychology, the sky is red I tell you! I think of things you've said like that you used to be so in love with me, or that you used to adore me. I think of my selfish ways and actions. I think of the years I've been away. I think of my children growing up without their father. If you think these are simply minor considerations then you are mistaken and it is these that I refer to under the heading 'regret'.[/i]>>> Translation: If you think that, then you'd be totally right because I didn't consider them at ALL during the hundreds of times I had the chance to make a decision not to be a weasel.
2sunny Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 I am saying that it is very hard for me to look at the where I am because of what I have been and the damage it has caused our precious marriage. he never owns his bad behavior. he still hasn't learned from his mistakes and he never says he won't cheat anymore. AND - that's NOT a one sentence answer! he's being a dork. he can't even follow your very simple instructions without asking for a pity party for him - hence the last paragraph of his response... give me a break... can you say ENTITLEMENT? EGO? HUGE EGO?
You'reasian Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 these are so many contradictions! . Exactly. My contention is that he is actually stunned and confused. 1. He loves Athena (considering the tone and content of his writing...yeah, I know unscientific, but this is love shack dammit) 2. He believes love is fake. Athena has his heart. His beliefs of love have his mind. He's in a cognitive dissonance. who says allowed? he never asked Athenas permission... to cheat every time! to see other women! yep, plural! permission! let's see how you feel after 20 years married and hubby screws around with (an admitted) 8 women and see how you may feel about him trying to snow you after that... may he will ask you for "permission" first. I stated 'he allowed' - meaning it was his own decision; he did it on his own accord. Well, I've never been married and I prefer the company of ladies, so I'll never know but I can see how its a heart breaker.
2sunny Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Exactly. My contention is that he is actually stunned and confused. he's not stunned or confused one bit... he's calculated and has been a serial cheater over decades of their marriage, only to expect Athena to put up with it over and over. he's a man that is used to getting everything he wants and more... it's not hard to see if you go back and read through her other threads.
Author Athena Posted October 12, 2009 Author Posted October 12, 2009 2. He believes love is fake. This is very interesting... why do you feel he believes love is fake? What made you think that way?
Author Athena Posted October 12, 2009 Author Posted October 12, 2009 Translation: If you think that, then you'd be totally right because I didn't consider them at ALL during the hundreds of times I had the chance to make a decision not to be a weasel. hmm -- how TRUE!
Author Athena Posted October 12, 2009 Author Posted October 12, 2009 he's a man that is used to getting everything he wants and more... it's not hard to see if you go back and read through her other threads. You know, he is definitely socially skilled... and he has ALWAYS had things his way... he had a good childhood, a good enough family, but I guess he just still feels entitled and gets what he wants, no matter what the cost to the rest of us.
Author Athena Posted October 12, 2009 Author Posted October 12, 2009 I asked H the following: "H, so will you EVER cheat again? Please answer this question with a Yes, or a No, only. Just with one word. " He sent back an email with the following, "No"
boldjack Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Athena, how does this game, help you? Did you really expect him to say "yes"? If any of my ex's asked the same question, I would have answered the same way. He isn't either stupid enough or honest enough to incriminate himself.
MistyK Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 I asked H the following: "H, so will you EVER cheat again? Please answer this question with a Yes, or a No, only. Just with one word. " He sent back an email with the following, "No" Well, define cheat. Since you are separated, would you consider it cheating if he was screwing around now, and more importantly does he consider that cheating? I'd also be curious to know how he could be so sure he won't cheat when he's undergone NO treatment and has obviously said that song and dance before. He just said he was weak and couldn't help himself, but now he purports to be in control of himself. A 30-second reversal - a new world record.
Author Athena Posted October 12, 2009 Author Posted October 12, 2009 Athena, how does this game, help you? Did you really expect him to say "yes"? If any of my ex's asked the same question, I would have answered the same way. He isn't either stupid enough or honest enough to incriminate himself. lol yeah okay... I know. It's just that 2sunny said he was beating around the bush, and that I should outright ask him...
Author Athena Posted October 12, 2009 Author Posted October 12, 2009 Well, define cheat. Since you are separated, would you consider it cheating if he was screwing around now, and more importantly does he consider that cheating? I'd also be curious to know how he could be so sure he won't cheat when he's undergone NO treatment and has obviously said that song and dance before. He just said he was weak and couldn't help himself, but now he purports to be in control of himself. A 30-second reversal - a new world record. We are not separated... he works abroad on a contract that runs until the end of this year, then he will be coming home...until a new job comes up, wherever that may be. He never wanted to work locally... points out there's more money to be made abroad
Author Athena Posted October 12, 2009 Author Posted October 12, 2009 he never owns his bad behavior. he still hasn't learned from his mistakes and he never says he won't cheat anymore. AND - that's NOT a one sentence answer! he's being a dork. lol, I am going to have to have an email signature which reads: "H, answer in ONE sentence only... "
Author Athena Posted October 12, 2009 Author Posted October 12, 2009 You guys, I am going to sleep now... thank you for all your enlightening posts and humorous replies! Loved them... good night
2sunny Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 so his response tells us that he actually believes his own lies... and he also expects Athena to believe them too.
ForumFool Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 On a serious note. What does it really matter ..what he really really means in YET ANOTHER letter from H....Athena you have been standing still..posting letters from him for at least 9 months that *I* know of. Move on and stop writing him..Why are you even in contact with him? Do you just wanna stay?..If you do...that is OK.....stay but don't keep playing these games with your OWN head .posting all these letters and wondering how and why and going in circles is not healthy for you.
NoIDidn't Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Wow, I dated a guy that spoke just like that. He wasn't a scientist or anywhere close (that was/is me). Are you content with analyzing his letters? He isn't saying anything. In the "no" response, I keep waiting for the "but" or the "it depends". You know its there. These guys thrive on trying to find "loopholes" in logic to confuse you and get what they want. It sounds like you plan on staying, though. It also sounds like he plans on staying too - whether you ever have sex with him again or not.
bentnotbroken Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Athena, Your H is the king of bulls**ters. He has a degree in SPREAD IT ON THICK, a masters in "F" WITH HER HEAD, a doctorate in TIE IT IN A PRETTY BOW and he got them all from HEAD UP MY AZZ UNIVERSITY. He is so full of verbal diarrhea he makes you want to take Imodium AD.
eeyore1981 Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Thanks for this thread, Athena. My H, to my knowledge, is not a serial cheater. He is, however, a serial marriage destruction expert. And this, what your H is doing, is what my H is doing, too. He doesn't use the big fancy words, but it is still the same thing. Sigh, you know what is so sad? I see you in this position, and I see you still trying to get answers and make sense of it, and I think to myself, "Why does she bother?" yet then I go and do exactly the same thing you are doing. We think we quit playing, but we really haven't.
LaGazelle Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Athena, I don't usually take notice of astrology and such the likes, but something in your H's letter struck me, and I have a question for you...is he Gemini or "nearly" Gemini? By the way, for what it's worth, I would stay clear of a grown man who seems to have so little self-assuredness and so much teenage angst! By all means, give your best to the M recovery, but devote your energy to meaningful recovery actions instead of playing "audience" to his amateur writer games. I would hazard a guess that he doesn't actually speak in this affected manner. It seems to me to be just a special writing style called "conceit", which is done mostly just to get attention. LG
LaGazelle Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Once before when I posted several of my husband's emails to me, a fellow LS poster pointed out that he uses a 'lot of words' but says nothing. I just got this email from him in response to my telling him I found some old emails from me to him, and I was 'shocked' to see how much I used to love him and WHY did he go to OW#7 at the time? That I would never understand that... ... this is his response... is it just me, or is this just a whole lot of nothing? gr:mad: ________________________________________ My dreams have been filled with memories of you. How we were. I was on the road to recognising what it is about me that made me pursue the course of action I did but I am constantly prevented because I find it unfathomable when considering that I did these things married to you. I definitely have a self-destruct mechanism linked to self-awareness that was implanted long ago by one means or another. But far from fighting it and re-casting my character I went with the preprogramming and became self-actuating on the basis of a foregone conclusion. But despite the quagmire of debilitating memories I have created by my actions, I still dream of you in a way that makes me long for the days when my love for you precluded me from testing the bonds of our marriage. You have been a good wife Athena. The best in every way! I do not deserve you but if I believe that I will again be allowing the fulfillment of distant programming which has already destroyed so much in my life. There are some things I know to be true and that's without being told or educated to believe them, and one of these things is that I love you and want to be with you forever no matter what comes in my path. If I could erase my past and pay for it with twenty years of my life, I would do so without thinking about it one second. But that's not reality and the only way I have to change the past is to change the future. A future with you in which I can lay back in place the building blocks of our marriage and happiness together. Athena, I have another question for you....once he lays the building blocks, does he expect you to establish the foundation, build the walls, do the roofing, put in the windows and doors....or does he plan to share the burden!? Is he planning to lay the building blocks at all, or is he just recognising that he "can" lay them. Right now he is like a bum sitting on the fence. All that is coming out and falling on your side of the fence is "brown stuff". Is he really committed to moving forward to a good future with you, or does he just want to dwell interminably in narcissistic self-absorption!? If I were you, I would only take notice of clear unambiguous statements from him. If he can't volunteer them, just ask him direct questions with "yes" or "no" answers to give him a starter for ten.
jmargel Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 I just got this email from him in response to my telling him I found some old emails from me to him, and I was 'shocked' to see how much I used to love him and WHY did he go to OW#7 at the time? Because you should have kicked him out back at OW #1. You continue to let this happen to you.
nittygritty Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Athena, I don't usually take notice of astrology and such the likes, but something in your H's letter struck me, and I have a question for you...is he Gemini or "nearly" Gemini? By the way, for what it's worth, I would stay clear of a grown man who seems to have so little self-assuredness and so much teenage angst! By all means, give your best to the M recovery, but devote your energy to meaningful recovery actions instead of playing "audience" to his amateur writer games. I would hazard a guess that he doesn't actually speak in this affected manner. It seems to me to be just a special writing style called "conceit", which is done mostly just to get attention. LG Leo's in there somewhere. Unfortunately, his narcissism stands out the most.
Author Athena Posted October 12, 2009 Author Posted October 12, 2009 Athena, I don't usually take notice of astrology and such the likes, but something in your H's letter struck me, and I have a question for you...is he Gemini or "nearly" Gemini? By the way, for what it's worth, I would stay clear of a grown man who seems to have so little self-assuredness and so much teenage angst! By all means, give your best to the M recovery, but devote your energy to meaningful recovery actions instead of playing "audience" to his amateur writer games. I would hazard a guess that he doesn't actually speak in this affected manner. It seems to me to be just a special writing style called "conceit", which is done mostly just to get attention. LG Yes, he is a Gemini... that's a pretty good guess on your part. You are right, he doesn't speak like this... he has 'developed' this writing style, because he writes to many people to keep in touch, and he has received many compliments... I do think he writes well, but here when he writes to me, it's just complicating. I like to write plainly to get the message across. Interesting that you called it "conceit", I guess it's something that HAS gotten him attention... Thanks.
Author Athena Posted October 12, 2009 Author Posted October 12, 2009 Because you should have kicked him out back at OW #1. You continue to let this happen to you. In the meantime our children have grown up with an intact family. Now they are pretty grown, and I am pretty young. I know you are right about the kicking him out at OW #1... except he was Sooo remorseful and I comforted him, he promised never to do that again... I trusted him. Now my advice for others is to kick the straying spouse out (at least for a while until they earn the right to come back into your life). I was wrong to do 'the opposite' of what his first wife had done -- SHE had left to visit relatives abroad, and in the mail arrived the divorce papers for him... she gave him no quarter (however, turns out she was having her own affair, and got married briefly to that AP)...
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