Ecosse Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Is it the ceremony? Because that wasnt made popular until 500 yrs ago... Technically wouldnt the moment of engagement mark the bond of Marriage?
Author Ecosse Posted October 12, 2009 Author Posted October 12, 2009 Christian God... Sorry, should have been more specific...
Enema Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 I'd say he doesn't care about marriage, or how we define it. The invention of marriage predates the invention of the christian god.
sb129 Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 What does the bible say about it? Usually its pretty good at letting you know what gods opinions are on most things.
NoIDidn't Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 What constitutes marriage in the eyes of the Christian God? My take is the vows and the law of the nation you live in. Let your yea, be yea. And your nay be nay. Giving your word means you should keep it. But a ceremony is not required. In the bible, a couple could have been betrothed for several years before consummating their marriage (and sex with someone else during that time would have been considered adultery and worthy of stoning/death for the woman). Marriage exists as a social contract between the two entering into it. Its not the piece of paper most countries make you sign. IMHO. So, I agree with you that the marriage actually started with the engagement - even though that's not the way things work much nowadays. Different culture, and different laws (in non-theocratic states anyway)
TaraMaiden Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 The church decided to poke their noses in a few hundred years ago, in the hope of making a few fast bucks, and as a means of keeping men faithful to their wives, because as most (if not all) marriages were arranged as a means of promoting personal financial gain (dowries, land settlement, families uniting to make their properties more secure) men thought nothing of marrying for convenience and heirs, but casting their seed far and wide with any wench they felt the desire to bed. As is evident by today's sexually inhibited and totally monogamous society, that idea worked very well.....
Author Ecosse Posted October 12, 2009 Author Posted October 12, 2009 Here is the conundrum Next year my GF and I intend to move in together... I know how the Church feels about this but its a decision we made together and we have no problem with co-habitatoin... We intend to marry but finances are prohibiting us... The largest obstacle is my mom. She is the brow bashing, in-your-face kind of Christian and this will make her s#!t kittens... The decision has been made... right, wrong or indifferent... Im just comming up with ways to help soften the blow... She is a really nice lady and I hate to make her sad... C'mon, shes my mother, after all
TaraMaiden Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 I'm the last person to ask. It's outdated and positively useless, unless you regard taxes and pensions as being important enough to marry for. But as for the emotional, spiritual and financial (in the sense of what settlements mean) side of it - forget it. it's unrealistic. If one of the kittens has a pink nose, I'll have it.
memorygospel Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Most people on here don't seem to hold marriage in much high regard besides the legal purposes but I do. From my understanding marriage as seen from god's eyes is a sacred bond between a man and a woman which is created when vows are exchanged and a ceremony is presided by a priest. The marriage is seen to be ultimately completed once after the ceremony the couple has sex whether it be for the first time or not. Hope I was able to help!
clv0116 Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Christian God... Sorry, should have been more specific... Well, I guess the proper name for that god would be Yahweh or Jehovah then. In the Bible his 'authorized writers' claimed his standards don't change. If that is the case, then engagement is treated very seriously. For instance Joseph was not married to Mary, but he still would have needed a certificate of divorce to break their engagement. If memory serves, marriage was a simple matter of publicly taking the bride home with the groom, with witnesses and well wishers present at a marriage celebration beforehand. I'm pretty curious about the context of the question.
clv0116 Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Here is the conundrum Next year my GF and I intend to move in together... I know how the Church feels about this but its a decision we made together and we have no problem with co-habitatoin... We intend to marry but finances are prohibiting us... The largest obstacle is my mom. She is the brow bashing, in-your-face kind of Christian and this will make her s#!t kittens... The decision has been made... right, wrong or indifferent... Im just comming up with ways to help soften the blow... She is a really nice lady and I hate to make her sad... C'mon, shes my mother, after all Well getting married is not expensive, sounds like someone has a princess complex and 'needs' an expensive wedding.
Author Ecosse Posted October 12, 2009 Author Posted October 12, 2009 Well the reasons for the post I wrote also (lower down the posting)... Ive been reading up on various aspects of Marriage and co-habitation... I was just curious what biblically was the reason the we shouldnt live together b4 getting married... even if we get engaged before... IMO the ceremony is just a ceremony... wouldnt we have made the commitment at the official engagement or is it really the ceremony? Whats in a ceremony that isnt in our hearts before?
clv0116 Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Well the reasons for the post I wrote also (lower down the posting)... Ive been reading up on various aspects of Marriage and co-habitation... I was just curious what biblically was the reason the we shouldnt live together b4 getting married... even if we get engaged before... IMO the ceremony is just a ceremony... wouldnt we have made the commitment at the official engagement or is it really the ceremony? Whats in a ceremony that isnt in our hearts before? For "Gods people" (if we're going all Biblical here) marriage has always involved whatever the current legal and civil procedures were at the time. Just get married, a simple wedding costs almost nothing and really, if you can't afford a JoP, you need to concentrate on getting your life together and not on a woman.
sb129 Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Do you think your mother would be cool about it if you got engaged? Or would that put too much pressure on you to have a "proper" wedding? Mothers have a habit of getting over excited when marriage is mentioned...
Author Ecosse Posted October 12, 2009 Author Posted October 12, 2009 We're not officially engaged yet... Im not moving to her state for a good 8-10 months and have not even brought the living together thing with my mom... I doubt even if we were engaged it'd not make a difference... And Im not going to be rushed for any reason to be married, in that it will be "our" marriage on "our" terms...
clv0116 Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Im not going to be rushed for any reason to be married, in that it will be "our" marriage on "our" terms... So despite all your grandstanding, you're not really sure and you want to move in and start hitting it now anyway. In other words, Mom was right. Nice.
Author Ecosse Posted October 12, 2009 Author Posted October 12, 2009 Hu? I think I must have mis-represented myself there... I want to marry this girl under our terms... not be rushed because my mother doesnt want us living together out of wedlock... I dont think that has ****todo with "hitting it now anyway" as you so illustrated... but FU for implying otherwise...
TaraMaiden Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Let me see if I have this right. You are (both) religiously devout, but you see nothing wrong in co-habiting before you get married (which you both fully intend to do) because you can't find anything in the bible that goes contrary to that, but you think there's plenty religio-socially that does... for whatever reason. So moving in together is cool for you two, because you're both OKl with it conscience-wise, as you believe God is too... The main 'fly in the ointment' is your mom. You intend to do this, even though you know she will - as you so eloquently put it - defecate infant felines.... So your big question is - how do I tackle the fiery mom issue? Is that it?
Author Ecosse Posted October 12, 2009 Author Posted October 12, 2009 On the nose Tara... Those poor infant felines...
clv0116 Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 I want to marry this girl under our terms... . but FU for implying otherwise... Well when someone keeps changing their story it always leaves me smelling b*llsh*t. Here is the conundrum.... We intend to marry but finances are prohibiting us... I want to marry this girl under our terms... not be rushed ...
TaraMaiden Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 On the nose Tara... Those poor infant felines... It's very simple. You weigh up the worst of the two scenarios and ask yourself which one is more important and why. I know she's your mother. Big respect and all that, but you know, if you're old enough to be sleeping with your GF, (and surely, your mother knows you do!) then what's the difference between 'sleeping' together, and living together? If your mother goes off the handle, and tells you it's sinful, ask her to point out her sources, biblically, and whether she can find anywhere in the Bible that states you two should not cohabit before marriage. And if she insists, then ask her if she thinks sleeping together is wrong. And if she says yes, ask her why she hasn't ever objected to the two of you sleeping together, ever, but suddenly, if it's under your own roof, it's not ok any more....? Or - wait - please don't tell me she doesn't know that you two......
TaraMaiden Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Well when someone keeps changing their story it always leaves me smelling b*llsh*t. Meh... I don't think he was changing.... just elaborating. But now we've established what the real problem is (A misguidedly-religious mother, as opposed to misguided religion)..... what do you suggest?
Author Ecosse Posted October 12, 2009 Author Posted October 12, 2009 Ok... since we're getting honed in on some more specifics... Discussing my mother: It would lake a long time to explain how and why I haven't talked about sex nor she brought it up (other than to stamp her disapproval of premarital sex)... But in the end, yes as far as she knows Im still a virgin... Im sure she could easily put 2 and 2 together but chooses to live in her little safe world... and thats about the point.. she has delt with some pretty bad stuff in her life and I dont want to add to her worries. So I kinda edit my life and keep her directed on the positive stuff that she can feel good about... She is sweet but disconnected to the world around her... As far as my GF: Im in a LDR with a girl who I knew years ago (im 30 she is 29)... We have been talking for 6 months, she has come to visit me (12-14 hr drive). I am leaving to visit her in a matter of days... I have dated several girls before, thought I was in love and so on... then I met Her and everyting was different... I have no doubt in my mind that she is the only girl for me... We are planning a life together and have an end date for our distance... Im just really concerned about rocking my mothers world with this news... Its goign to be hard on her (seriously, she is going to cry)... Im not some big sally but im not heartless... I have spent much of my life (from about 16) being strong for her and protective of her... Im beginning a life with a woman who I love, she is goign to feel already displaced by me, then Im going to add insult to injury... I apologize if I seemed crass in prior postings... I hope that this further explains my situation... I appreciate everybody's feedback....
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