eeyore1981 Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Does anyone else feel like this, or is it just me? I don't even know what I want anymore. If I am with him, and feeling pretty good, and wanting to be close or whatever, sometimes this feeling just smacks me upside the head like an iron skillet. Why does he get to have a good marriage after he went out and cheated on me? I think back on all the years I tried to talk with him, like an adult. Address the issue, get both sides on the table, make some compomises, that kind of thing, and it always pretty much got me nowhere. Is this all I had to do, just let some guy who was hitting on me have his way with me? Why is an affair the way to solve marital problems? This sucks.
beyondsad Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Sorry for your pain - I feel the same way. I look at my H and think how the hell did you get away with this. I must be crazy!!! I wish I could say something to make you feel better........
silktricks Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 A good marriage is a prize for both of you, not just him. Do YOU want a good marriage? If so, then he gets one, too, because a good marriage is not just for one of you, either one of you. A good marriage is not the "reward" for having an affair. But having a marriage that is good for both of you can be the reward for working out and solving the problems that existed in your marriage pre-affair. It's not the affair that creates the good marriage, it's the resolution of the problems that resulted in the affair. That's a totally different thing. Snowflower has mentioned how their marriage is basically a new creation post-affair. That describes mine as well. We restructured from the very base of our relationship, and now have a very healthy and happy marriage. It was neither healthy nor happy for either of us pre-affair. The good marriage we have now is not a reward for his affair, but rather a lot of hard work that we were both willing to put in... because despite the hurts we each gave the other we knew we loved and love each other. We didn't want to go back to what we had, we wanted something better for both of us. That's what we have now. Not the old marriage revisited but something much better.
Dexter Morgan Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 A good marriage is a prize for both of you, not just him. Do YOU want a good marriage? If so, then he gets one, too, because a good marriage is not just for one of you, either one of you. only one problem with that, now HE has sentenced her to a life of never being able to forget him sticking it to another woman. He gets to have a good marriage. Maybe she gets that to only some degree too....but she is the one that now has the scar to carry...not him. He gets to get away with it basically. A good marriage is not the "reward" for having an affair. then you need to read some of the responses by cheaters here. They acknowledge that because they had an affair, it brought about changes in the BS. Its called emotional, and sometimes even sexual, extortion. But having a marriage that is good for both of you can be the reward for working out and solving the problems that existed in your marriage pre-affair. It's not the affair that creates the good marriage, it's the resolution of the problems that resulted in the affair. Ok, so now there is an imbalance. one of the spouses went out and shagged someone else. What is the WS going to do to make something good out of that? Seems that the WS gets to have the BS that is willing to keep the marriage act as they want. So what does the BS get for the baggage of the scar and pain the WS has caused and the memories that will never go away? the way I see it, there is no way I could ever have a good marriage with someone that proves their untrustworthiness. my "prize" would be my freedom from such a person.
Devil Inside Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Staying and working on a marriage after an affair is a choice. It is a difficult choice...but it is a choice. You are choosing to stay in this situation...always remember that. As for your question...is it fair...no. It is not. If you stay and work at this is it will be because you were willing to stick in there, in an unfair situation, because you loved him that much. It says a lot about you that you have stuck in this far, however, I don't think anyone would blame you for choosing not to stay..how could they. Sorry for your pain. It is hard. I hope it gets better. I hope that he can show you through his actions that he is willing to do the hard work..and that he realizes he is not getting away with anything.
2sure Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 When your H had the affair, it was not only behind your back...it was not meant to include you in any way - regardless of the reason he did it, if any. So - you were living separately, in at least that respect - probably more. To go forward, you have to get rid of the separateness. Almost as though there is no HIM, no YOU...but the MARRIAGE. When you have sex with him you are not rewarding him or using him...you are doing a good thing for the marriage. So they tell me
Author eeyore1981 Posted October 9, 2009 Author Posted October 9, 2009 A good marriage is a prize for both of you, not just him. Do YOU want a good marriage? If so, then he gets one, too, because a good marriage is not just for one of you, either one of you. A good marriage is not the "reward" for having an affair. But having a marriage that is good for both of you can be the reward for working out and solving the problems that existed in your marriage pre-affair. It's not the affair that creates the good marriage, it's the resolution of the problems that resulted in the affair. That's a totally different thing. Snowflower has mentioned how their marriage is basically a new creation post-affair. That describes mine as well. We restructured from the very base of our relationship, and now have a very healthy and happy marriage. It was neither healthy nor happy for either of us pre-affair. The good marriage we have now is not a reward for his affair, but rather a lot of hard work that we were both willing to put in... because despite the hurts we each gave the other we knew we loved and love each other. We didn't want to go back to what we had, we wanted something better for both of us. That's what we have now. Not the old marriage revisited but something much better. A good marriage is possible without one partner cheating on the other. Sorry, but all it takes is open communication between the two, and a willingness to address the issues, including your own issues. I'm very happy for you if you are okay with what has happened and feel the ends justify the means. I just don't feel that way myself. I do feel H is being rewarded for cheating, whether I end up with a good marriage or not, and I am struggling very hard with how good a marriage it can ever be with a person who was so willing to hurt me so much. How is that love?
Author eeyore1981 Posted October 9, 2009 Author Posted October 9, 2009 only one problem with that, now HE has sentenced her to a life of never being able to forget him sticking it to another woman. He gets to have a good marriage. Maybe she gets that to only some degree too....but she is the one that now has the scar to carry...not him. He gets to get away with it basically. then you need to read some of the responses by cheaters here. They acknowledge that because they had an affair, it brought about changes in the BS. Its called emotional, and sometimes even sexual, extortion. Ok, so now there is an imbalance. one of the spouses went out and shagged someone else. What is the WS going to do to make something good out of that? Seems that the WS gets to have the BS that is willing to keep the marriage act as they want. So what does the BS get for the baggage of the scar and pain the WS has caused and the memories that will never go away? the way I see it, there is no way I could ever have a good marriage with someone that proves their untrustworthiness. my "prize" would be my freedom from such a person. I have spent the last 2 years trying to make this work. As long as H gets what he wants, everything is just fine. Meanwhile, I feel just like I did before the affair, except now I've been cheated on, too. Lucky me. Why, why why why am I still here? I am so disgusted with myself.
Dexter Morgan Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 I have spent the last 2 years trying to make this work. As long as H gets what he wants, everything is just fine. Meanwhile, I feel just like I did before the affair, except now I've been cheated on, too. Lucky me. Why, why why why am I still here? I am so disgusted with myself. exactly!! thats the point I was making. tell me something, is your husband's idea of a good marriage mean you are to get over it and he shouldn't have to be subjected to any suspicions or consequences? Or is he trying to make it up to you....like staying home and not going out with the guys...making sure you know where he is when not with you? Is he an open book and you have access to EVERY means of communication he has? This may sound controlling....but he effed that up when he effed another woman. Bottom line, is he doing the things a husband should do? Aside from the thing he now should do now that he got caught with he pathetic pecker out?
Author eeyore1981 Posted October 9, 2009 Author Posted October 9, 2009 exactly!! thats the point I was making. tell me something, is your husband's idea of a good marriage mean you are to get over it and he shouldn't have to be subjected to any suspicions or consequences? Or is he trying to make it up to you....like staying home and not going out with the guys...making sure you know where he is when not with you? Is he an open book and you have access to EVERY means of communication he has? This may sound controlling....but he effed that up when he effed another woman. Bottom line, is he doing the things a husband should do? Aside from the thing he now should do now that he got caught with he pathetic pecker out? I have access to most everything, some things you just can't monitor, like land lines, and to be honest, I've lost interest in checking up on him. I don't think he is cheating anymore, and if he is, screw him. What is my problem? He cheated, he stopped, and he pretends to think that should be good enough. Every time this comes up, we end up in a huge fight, like today. I use all the therapist words, I bend over backwards to not be accusatory, but that only lasts so long. He tries to double talk and all that crap, I keep calling him on it, then he gets angry.
silktricks Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 I have access to most everything, some things you just can't monitor, like land lines, and to be honest, I've lost interest in checking up on him. I don't think he is cheating anymore, and if he is, screw him. What is my problem? He cheated, he stopped, and he pretends to think that should be good enough. Every time this comes up, we end up in a huge fight, like today. I use all the therapist words, I bend over backwards to not be accusatory, but that only lasts so long. He tries to double talk and all that crap, I keep calling him on it, then he gets angry. well, it's not enough. not even close. Have you guys done MC? Did it help? you made a choice to stay in the marriage after D-Day. Why did you do that? You have the choice now to leave. Do you intend to do so? All actions are, as DI said, choices. You chose to stay, if you don't want a good marriage for both of you, then why bother?
silktricks Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) A good marriage is possible without one partner cheating on the other. Sorry, but all it takes is open communication between the two, and a willingness to address the issues, including your own issues. I'm very happy for you if you are okay with what has happened and feel the ends justify the means. I just don't feel that way myself. I do feel H is being rewarded for cheating, whether I end up with a good marriage or not, and I am struggling very hard with how good a marriage it can ever be with a person who was so willing to hurt me so much. How is that love? ya know something - I'm happy now. We have a good marriage and a good relationship. I didn't, though, say a single thing about the end justifying the means, nor did I say that I was OK with what happened. Do I wish it hadn't? Of course!! But why should I spend any part of my life sitting and moping about something that happened that I cannot change. It's in the past. If it could be undone, my husband would undo every bit of it. I know that. I've never seen a human being more sorrowful about the pain he caused. As I see it and saw it after D-Day. I had two choices. I could work my azz off to make the marriage what it should be - and I'd only do that if he put in at least equal work - or I could divorce. I chose not to divorce him. However, I also never shielded him from one single tear or pain or doubt. He saw every bit of my pain. He heard and felt my crying. He got my anger. There was no pretense at any time after D-Day. He got it all. Of course a good marriage is possible without one partner cheating. It's preferred. But that's not what I had to work with. It's not what you have to work with right now. So you have a choice. You can sit back and be bitter about what happened, or you can take those lemons and make lemonade. Your work won't matter, though, if your husband doesn't put in AT LEAST equal work, if not more. Frankly, if my husband hadn't been up to the task - and it was a huge one - I would no longer be married. But, IMO you've got some twisted logic going that says that he's being rewarded for bad behavior, if you can end up making a marriage you are happy in out of the whole sad mess. anyway, good luck to you. I really hope that you'll be happy. Whether in that marriage or if you decide against that, in a single state. I have only good thoughts for you!! Edited October 10, 2009 by silktricks
Author eeyore1981 Posted October 10, 2009 Author Posted October 10, 2009 well, it's not enough. not even close. Have you guys done MC? Did it help? How to make a long story short? We did MC. He lied. I threw up my hands. He made excuses. I insisted he do IC. 4 apps. in 1.5 years or so. Threw up my hands again. More excuses from him. Back to new MC. He did initial backstory 1st week alone. I did 2cd week alone, she didn't do my background, he went out of town for business, I went back next week alone, did background, and told her we would make appt. when he got back to town. He'll be home in 2 weeks, I guess, and if another appt. is made, it will either be me, or me telling him to. you made a choice to stay in the marriage after D-Day. Why did you do that? He called me and made an impassioned plea to work things out. He said he was sorry. He swore they were just friends. I loved him, and believed him. He lied. And lied and lied and lied. Heard of trickle truth? You have the choice now to leave. Do you intend to do so? All actions are, as DI said, choices. You chose to stay, if you don't want a good marriage for both of you, then why bother? Right now I am very screwed up in the head. I have been so jerked around for so long, I have lost the ability to walk away and get on with my life. I am struggling so hard to regain my capacity for rational thought so I can leave here without spending every waking moment feeling sorry for myself and plotting revenge. I chose to stay, because I believed he loved me and wanted to work things out and for our marriage to be good for both of us. He has pulled me back and forth like a yo-yo. My emotions went from D-day, where I was very sad and hurt our marriage was over, but knew I would be okay, to the last few weeks, where I have realized he is never going to admit or take responsibility for what he does, so I am now so angry and outraged, I don't even care that much about the affair anymore, it's the 2 years since then, work it out my @ss, etc. I can't get past how much he has hurt me and how much I want to hurt him back. I know it isn't healthy for me to feel like this, and I think I'm just going to have to feel it until it burns itself out. This is not about wanting a good marriage for me and a bad one for him. This is about me being jacked around for another 2 years, putting my heart into working this out while he sits around expecting me to fix yet another one of his messes. Good marriage for him, sux for me. Maybe if he had really tried, I would have been happy enough I wouldn't have noticed how he got to go out and cheat and then get all his heart's desires. But that still would have been what happened.
silktricks Posted October 10, 2009 Posted October 10, 2009 He called me and made an impassioned plea to work things out. He said he was sorry. He swore they were just friends. I loved him, and believed him. He lied. And lied and lied and lied. Heard of trickle truth? oh yeah... Right now I am very screwed up in the head. I have been so jerked around for so long, I have lost the ability to walk away and get on with my life. I am struggling so hard to regain my capacity for rational thought so I can leave here without spending every waking moment feeling sorry for myself and plotting revenge. I chose to stay, because I believed he loved me and wanted to work things out and for our marriage to be good for both of us. He has pulled me back and forth like a yo-yo. My emotions went from D-day, where I was very sad and hurt our marriage was over, but knew I would be okay, to the last few weeks, where I have realized he is never going to admit or take responsibility for what he does, so I am now so angry and outraged, I don't even care that much about the affair anymore, it's the 2 years since then, work it out my @ss, etc. I can't get past how much he has hurt me and how much I want to hurt him back. I know it isn't healthy for me to feel like this, and I think I'm just going to have to feel it until it burns itself out. This is not about wanting a good marriage for me and a bad one for him. This is about me being jacked around for another 2 years, putting my heart into working this out while he sits around expecting me to fix yet another one of his messes. Good marriage for him, sux for me. not really - what you're talking about him getting is not what I call a good marriage - I call it a lazy life. sux for you for sure. I really feel bad for what you've lived through. TO do all the work that it takes to attempt to get past infidelity and then get slammed in the face with a completely different situation would almost make me want to kill someone (I guess not really - but still). Anyway, I hope the best for you, and hope you can make choices you are OK with.
pizzagirl Posted October 10, 2009 Posted October 10, 2009 Wow, this situation sounds really hard. You have gotten good advice but what I don't hear what you have gotten and what YOU most need is from yourself. Now this is NOT meant to sound condescending or preachy, but your spouse has NOT it sounds like, it seems, expressed to you the remorse you need to be convinced a better marriage is ahead.. You are not convinced the marriage is good nor will get any better, worse, that any pre mature forgiveness lets him "off the Hook". Again,As I hear you use words that berate yourself and how bad you feel and demeaned for "giving" him a good marriage, I hear your pain. Maybe, You may need to reevaluate how you SPEAK to yourself. I hear your criticality towards yourself for letting him off the hook, but as long as HE is on the HOOK so is the marriage. What would he have to do to get OFF the HOOK. What does a marriage Off the Hook feel and look like? How would you be behaving in a marriage where he is OFF the hook? How are you behaving where he is ON the HOOK? Have your efforts to keep him on the HOOK made you happy? Or has it left you bitter and frustrated. What IF you let YOURSELF OFF the Hook? Would you spend more time alone? Would you work out more? Would that involve friends? If you had more YOU time, would THAT let you OFF the HOOK. If you quit insisting ANYTHING to HIM and focused on letting YOU off the HOOK...Your marriage MAY get better, He MAY change, but YOU will feel better for having let yourself off the HOOK. Once you are off the Hook, the resentment, bitterness, and all the behaviors of the YOU on the HOOK may dissipate. But For sure you will want to put Him back on the Hook, but see if you can resist for some time. try an experiment: let YOU off the Hook for one DAY, and see how that feels. Then a Week, and see how that feels. Then , after some time letting YOU off the hook, the decisions you make about your marriage will be AFTER you have moved through your grief, Loss, Anger, and resentment. He cannot, will Not or May not have the ability to give you the closure to take your Marriage off the Hook, But YOU can take YOU off the hook. Once he sees YOU behaving like a partner that has let herself off the Hook , what may that look like? Will he be paranoid? Once you quit playing chasing Cop to his Robber, you MAY see a difference in him. He may wonder what is up? He may MISS being chased, hounded to go to therapy. He MAY wonder what is up with YOU. And maybe you Allow yourself new behavior, maybe YOU will enjoy the new freedom. And maybe he starts to CHASE YOU. Maybe try the experiment: let YOU off the Hook for a week, try making yourself a better, calmer, warmer soothing friend. You may then give yourself the permission, the confidence to take the next step, whatever that is. Will the Marriage Then get off the Hook? I can't answer that. But YOU will be. And you will definitely like You better. I don't think you got anything to lose,: it sound trying to get him on the Hook and him trying to get the marriage off it has only left you, hurt, cheated, frustrated, and down on yourself and the future. best luck.
NoIDidn't Posted October 10, 2009 Posted October 10, 2009 So sorry for your pain, eeyore. This situation doesn't sound stable. It doesn't sound like he wants to do any work. And it doesn't sound like you want to put up with it anymore. Did you say that he went to four sessions with a therapist over a 1.5 year period? Have you spoken to that therapist since then? I have an idea of what they might say to you (if its legal for them to do so). Again, I'm so sorry that you are hurting.
Spark1111 Posted October 10, 2009 Posted October 10, 2009 Eeyore, I feel your pain. Only you can decide if he is worth the effort. You sound as if you are doing all the heavy lifting and he is less than compassionate regarding the pain he has caused you. It's the huge red flag that tells a spouse that his feelings of embarrasment are more important than your feelings of pain, a pain caused by him. It is also a good indicator of the "how and why" he engaged in the affair: having his needs met was more important at the time than the pain it would cause you. Can you afford to separate? Are you going to IC for YOU?
Author eeyore1981 Posted October 10, 2009 Author Posted October 10, 2009 Thanks for the support. I appreciate what has been said in here. However, in my case, I feel like he has been rewarded by having an affair. As I stated in the original post, I tried to work things out for quite some time until I got fed up. He could have participated at any time in these discussions, he could have worked with me to resolve these problems, but he chose not to. He then pursued an affair when I lost interest in keeping our marriage going. Good for him. Anyone else out there feeling like this?
2sure Posted October 10, 2009 Posted October 10, 2009 Eeyore - once again I am struck by how similar our marriages are - at least the patterns of our H's infidelities. I think that multiple infidelity, serial cheating, etc...I really do believe that people can change. That through work, marriages can be rebuilt into something that they were not before. But my H, like yours...just cant wrap his head around the work. His only form of communication regarding his infidelity is DEFENSE. Even in MC. We are attending MC, I'm hoping it leads to an amicable divorce. We are not at each other's throats most of the time. But like you...I have done the work, I have done the heavy lifting already. Maybe I didnt do it good enough, but thats because I was working alone. Even if he is sincere in his efforts right now, and he does change...well, Ive changed too now. He beat the marriage to death. And I can take a lot, I have empathy and understanding to no end. I have feelings for him. I can forgive him easily for the infidelity. But, I just dont love him anymore. He can keep my ball, I'm going home.
Author eeyore1981 Posted October 10, 2009 Author Posted October 10, 2009 Eeyore - once again I am struck by how similar our marriages are - at least the patterns of our H's infidelities. I think that multiple infidelity, serial cheating, etc...I really do believe that people can change. That through work, marriages can be rebuilt into something that they were not before. But my H, like yours...just cant wrap his head around the work. His only form of communication regarding his infidelity is DEFENSE. Even in MC. We are attending MC, I'm hoping it leads to an amicable divorce. We are not at each other's throats most of the time. But like you...I have done the work, I have done the heavy lifting already. Maybe I didnt do it good enough, but thats because I was working alone. Even if he is sincere in his efforts right now, and he does change...well, Ive changed too now. He beat the marriage to death. And I can take a lot, I have empathy and understanding to no end. I have feelings for him. I can forgive him easily for the infidelity. But, I just dont love him anymore. He can keep my ball, I'm going home. BBM That's it exactly. I have changed, too, and in some ways not for the better. I feel a lot of grief for the loss of what I considered good qualities, like being a trusting person. I still love him, but I feel it slipping away, and it makes me so sad. But I can't do this by myself. It's not that he hasn't done anything, he just hasn't done enough. I needed the truth, and he lied. He swears he's telling the truth now, but hell, he swore the same thing over and over again and I would catch a lie. He expects it to mean something, and when it doesn't, he blames me, when he is the one who made it meaningless. As far as the details of his affair, I really, truly don't care anymore. He had a lot of opportunities to come clean, and he blew them all. Now, whatever I think he did in my head is my reality, and if it's wrong, again, he needs to look in the mirror on that one. I refuse to acknowledge anything he says about what happened anymore, cause I don't want to hear it anymore. The trust is the main thing for me, though. It's not just about can I trust him not to cheat. I don't feel I can trust him to have my best interests at heart, I can't trust him not to hurt me, I can't trust him to be there for me. IMO, this is what he should be working on, and he refuses. He says he doesn't know how to fix it, so he does nothing. Does this not need to be fixed? I think it does, and if he isn't going to fix it, who does that leave? Me? I didn't break it, and in this case, I can't fix it. I'm just really tired of the whole thing.
silktricks Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 The trust is the main thing for me, though. It's not just about can I trust him not to cheat. I don't feel I can trust him to have my best interests at heart, I can't trust him not to hurt me, I can't trust him to be there for me. IMO, this is what he should be working on, and he refuses. He says he doesn't know how to fix it, so he does nothing. Does this not need to be fixed? I think it does, and if he isn't going to fix it, who does that leave? Me? I didn't break it, and in this case, I can't fix it. I'm just really tired of the whole thing. You cannot fix this. Only he can - and it takes a horrendous amount of energy - his energy. If he refuses to do anything, then you are wasting your time. Whatever you choose to do, I hope you find happiness - a lot of it!!
MadMission Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) I just posted a reply to your other thread, too. It sounds like you are emotionally worn out, spent, exhausted. Your H has sent you mixed messages all along...throwing you bones...keeping hope alive...and keeping you in the M. I think you know that his heart is not in it because he has been uninterested and unwilling to do everything it takes to R. But, like I said, he likely gives you just enough to string you along. 2 years is a long time to live in limbo. I hope you have the satisfaction of knowing that you did try. It is often NOT the A itself, but the ways in which a WS mis-manages the aftermath, that is the demise of the M. If your H demonstrated, in words and actions, his care for you and your feelings...you would likely not feel the way you do right now. So, maybe in the end, his A has turned out to be a deal-breaker afterall. It just took you a while to gather enough information to come to that conclusion with certainty. And, that is OK. It is OK to be done. It's not that you are giving up, but rather that you are ACCEPTING the reality of your situation and H. You see him/it for what it is...and you don't really want any part of it anymore. You have compromised your values, dignity, and your self-respect long enough. It is NOT ok that he was unfaithful. And, it is NOT ok that he squandered away the last 2 yrs by NOT doing things which needed to be done to foster your healing and the healing of the M. None of this is OK. And, I think by the mere fact that you have STAYED with him, you feel like you have sent the opposite message...that is was/is OK to cheat on you and to avoid doing things to foster R and healing. When THAT was/is not OK. This remains very internally troubling and disturbing. I am struggling very hard with how good a marriage it can ever be with a person who was so willing to hurt me so much. -It took me a long time to realize this....but, no matter how wonderful a M can become after infidelity....at the end of the day, you are still with a man who betrayed and knowingly hurt you in the worst way possible. It's an unchangable fact. IMHO, R is always 'settling.' It just is. Edited October 15, 2009 by MadMission typos
FreezorBurn Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 I feel the same way. My wife had a Emotional Affair and I feel like i'm making all these changes to myself to be a better husband and this bitch was lieing to me and was off having drinks with some dork. Like she is getting a reward for Running around. Like something Positive came out of it so why not do it again? Well I have put her threw alot and she knows for sure that anything in the future will be an immediate divorce.
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