Skump Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) Woah, I'd totally forgotten about this thread! I don't want anyone to feel as though she ought to shoot herself if she hasn't married by thirty. Look, some people drink. I don't drink; my indulgences are masturbatory explosions of prose on the internet. Although I think my prior analysis is basically correct, there is hope. Here's a thought. When the rules of the game are working against you, you can try upping your gameplay... or you can try changing the game itself. For women on the dating scene entering their thirties, I'd suggest the latter. Read this Wikipedia page on love shyness. This is an extreme form of a condition that afflicts millions of otherwise perfectly decent and desirable men: shyness. The existence of shyness alone pretty much guarantees that a fair number of decent guys are available to women in their 30s. Unfortunately, our culture has inculcated us to believe that men should always be the initiators in relationships. This is a hugely maladaptive norm that disempowers women and leaves millions of men miserable. If you're a woman who's hit 30 and you're not in a serious relationship, obviously the classic model isn't working for you. So I'd like to suggest a different approach... my approach! It can be summed up in one acronym: JAHOFFS - Just Ask Him Out For F*ck's Sake. JAHOFFS isn't just a tactic, it's a new way - a better, more rational way - of thinking about courtship for women. The classic dating model is almost comically flawed: It requires men, who are terrible at reading body language, to figure out which women are really interested through subtle cues, and requires women, who are pickier than guys, to wait for men to pick them. Durrr. The classic model is particularly bad for older women, whose chances with any given guy are diminished. JAHOFFS works by turning the classic dating paradigm on its head. It respects how men actually think - not in terms of indirect signals, body language, subtle cues, BUT PLAIN DIRECT ORDINARY SPEECH - and respects what women need - by putting them in the driver's seat instead of making them slaves to chance and the relatively dull male perception of indirect communication. JAHOFFS also compensates for the diminished negotiating power of older women in the most simple and obvious way, by beating lower odds with sheer frequency. In practice, JAHOFFS works like this: 1) Identify what you find interesting about a candidate guy. 2) VERBALIZE THIS ATTRIBUTE TO YOURSELF. (e.g., he's really creative) 3) Identify a consequence of this attribute that can be the subject of intelligent conversation between two people. 4) VERBALIZE THIS CONSEQUENCE TO YOURSELF. (e.g., his mural work in the past). 5) Approach the candidate guy. Initiate conversation and state that you would like to go out with him and talk about #4. Be upbeat and cheerful, but do not phrase your offer in the form of a request. Assert your interest directly and plainly: E.g. "Hey Steve, you seem really passionate about your design work! I love your creative spark - I want you to tell me more about those mural projects you worked on in college. Let's have dinner. When are you free?" At this point, either one of two things will happen: 1) Congratulations! The candidate has rejected you! You now know that further efforts will be a waste of time and you can immediately move on to the next prospect. 2) Congratulations! The candidate has accepted you! You can proceed to develop the relationship. Yes, being the initiator in relationships exposes you to the possibility of rejection. But so what? If you're rejected, it means there was probably no possibility of a relationship to begin with. Moreover, the fact is that guys generally just aren't as cruel as girls when it comes to rejecting offers for dates, so you don't have as much to fear as your brethren do anyway. Bottom line: If you're entering your thirties as an unattached woman, the economics of courtship are against you; you can no longer afford to be passive in the expectation that men will come to you. The good news is that it lies entirely within your power to reject the maladaptive norms of dating and J.A.H.O.F.F.S. There are decent, available men out there, for women of all ages. Go get one. Edited October 19, 2009 by Skump
Author musicfan876 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Posted October 21, 2009 Woah, I'd totally forgotten about this thread! I don't want anyone to feel as though she ought to shoot herself if she hasn't married by thirty. Look, some people drink. I don't drink; my indulgences are masturbatory explosions of prose on the internet. Although I think my prior analysis is basically correct, there is hope. Here's a thought. When the rules of the game are working against you, you can try upping your gameplay... or you can try changing the game itself. For women on the dating scene entering their thirties, I'd suggest the latter. Read this Wikipedia page on love shyness. This is an extreme form of a condition that afflicts millions of otherwise perfectly decent and desirable men: shyness. The existence of shyness alone pretty much guarantees that a fair number of decent guys are available to women in their 30s. Unfortunately, our culture has inculcated us to believe that men should always be the initiators in relationships. This is a hugely maladaptive norm that disempowers women and leaves millions of men miserable. If you're a woman who's hit 30 and you're not in a serious relationship, obviously the classic model isn't working for you. So I'd like to suggest a different approach... my approach! It can be summed up in one acronym: JAHOFFS - Just Ask Him Out For F*ck's Sake. JAHOFFS isn't just a tactic, it's a new way - a better, more rational way - of thinking about courtship for women. The classic dating model is almost comically flawed: It requires men, who are terrible at reading body language, to figure out which women are really interested through subtle cues, and requires women, who are pickier than guys, to wait for men to pick them. Durrr. The classic model is particularly bad for older women, whose chances with any given guy are diminished. JAHOFFS works by turning the classic dating paradigm on its head. It respects how men actually think - not in terms of indirect signals, body language, subtle cues, BUT PLAIN DIRECT ORDINARY SPEECH - and respects what women need - by putting them in the driver's seat instead of making them slaves to chance and the relatively dull male perception of indirect communication. JAHOFFS also compensates for the diminished negotiating power of older women in the most simple and obvious way, by beating lower odds with sheer frequency. In practice, JAHOFFS works like this: 1) Identify what you find interesting about a candidate guy. 2) VERBALIZE THIS ATTRIBUTE TO YOURSELF. (e.g., he's really creative) 3) Identify a consequence of this attribute that can be the subject of intelligent conversation between two people. 4) VERBALIZE THIS CONSEQUENCE TO YOURSELF. (e.g., his mural work in the past). 5) Approach the candidate guy. Initiate conversation and state that you would like to go out with him and talk about #4. Be upbeat and cheerful, but do not phrase your offer in the form of a request. Assert your interest directly and plainly: E.g. "Hey Steve, you seem really passionate about your design work! I love your creative spark - I want you to tell me more about those mural projects you worked on in college. Let's have dinner. When are you free?" At this point, either one of two things will happen: 1) Congratulations! The candidate has rejected you! You now know that further efforts will be a waste of time and you can immediately move on to the next prospect. 2) Congratulations! The candidate has accepted you! You can proceed to develop the relationship. Yes, being the initiator in relationships exposes you to the possibility of rejection. But so what? If you're rejected, it means there was probably no possibility of a relationship to begin with. Moreover, the fact is that guys generally just aren't as cruel as girls when it comes to rejecting offers for dates, so you don't have as much to fear as your brethren do anyway. Bottom line: If you're entering your thirties as an unattached woman, the economics of courtship are against you; you can no longer afford to be passive in the expectation that men will come to you. The good news is that it lies entirely within your power to reject the maladaptive norms of dating and J.A.H.O.F.F.S. There are decent, available men out there, for women of all ages. Go get one. Hahaha so once again men give out less rejection and are less cruel. so women win again? wow you men get no breaks in life huh? and let's not forget about this The only you have to do is : Believe they are NOT out of your league. Better yet, know that YOU are above thier league and they'll believe THAT. And right or wrong, thats what they want. You are not out of their league. And to make it easier for you...men are even more insecure than women regarding the whole league thing, so its not hard for them to assume you are the golden ring...AND men, to me, seem less interested in "dating up" than women. Women add many more things to their considerations regarding "dating up" than men do. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2426919#post2426919
Author musicfan876 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Posted October 21, 2009 The woman gets to be more passive than the man no matter how ugly or old she is. Men don't even get to pick who they have sex with. Women choose everything.
Author musicfan876 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Posted October 21, 2009 even you admit women get to be pickier than men.
Author musicfan876 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Posted October 21, 2009 I thank God I am a girl. I love, love, love it! yea seriously. men lose in EVERY aspect of dating and marriage.
Els Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 Oh, OP, no wonder you're bitter about women rejecting you. Sorry, hon, but women tend not to like whiney little boys who spend all their time creating multiple handles on a relationship forum to moan about how their gender is being oppressed by the wymyns.
Author musicfan876 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Posted October 21, 2009 Oh, OP, no wonder you're bitter about women rejecting you. Sorry, hon, but women tend not to like whiney little boys who spend all their time creating multiple handles on a relationship forum to moan about how their gender is being oppressed by the wymyns. whatever. if you don't believe me whatever. no need to be a bitch.
Skump Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 Hahaha so once again men give out less rejection and are less cruel. so women win again? wow you men get no breaks in life huh? If that's the conclusion you drew from my post, I'd suggest reading it again, more carefully. For instance, this part... If you're entering your thirties as an unattached woman, the economics of courtship are against you; you can no longer afford to be passive in the expectation that men will come to you. In dating, women have it "better" than men between the start of high school and the end of college. That's it. From there on, it's a man's market.
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