boomboom63 Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 Well here is my story. Married 21 years with 2 kids (18 and 16) We went on a family skiing holiday over New Year 2007/8 with my BIL and his family and a close friend and his family (3 kids). My BIL and this friend and I have been good friends for over 18 years and play golf together a couple of weeks away as a boys only holiday a year. Anyway during the skiing holiday this close friend very subtly “ made eyes” and “cosied up” to my wife. Unfortunately she responded by text and a phone call to which he totally denied he had done anything and then proceeded to tell her how awful his marriage and sex life was. My W also disclosed some of her feelings about our marriage( and sex life) to him. When we returned from the skiing holiday I was aware that she was distant and upset. I was working 6 days a week and suggested that we needed to talk so we took our dogs for a walk without the kids and then she hit me with a bombshell about it was my fault she was unhappy and that I took her for granted. There was a certain amount of truth in this but I had no inkling of any of this and still after 19.5 years thought that I was the luckiest man in the world. At some point in this long conversation I felt that maybe she was having/contemplating an affair. I didn’t sleep or eat for weeks and couldn’t stop the images of her and this “friend” together. I went to a counsellor - who really helped. ]Having lurked in the background of LS I now realise that I was reacting in a pretty classical way. I still didn’t know about the texts and the phone call and Ii just wouldn’t leave it alone. For the first time in my marriage I started to distrust my wife and started snooping – found his phone number under someone else’s name in her phone and confronted her and was given some plausible explanation but I still didn’t trust her. I cancelled a golf trip that had been planned for a while and then out of the blue this friend phoned up and wanted to know why and that “it sounds like a touch of the domestics” he then was constantly trying to find out about the state of my marriage. This continued for several months. My W had planned a trip abroad with her friend and while she was away I hacked the phone bill and there it was proof of a 30 minute phone call. I was devastated and could only imagine that she was away with him. I am ashamed to admit that I sat in the woods for several hours with a shotgun on my knee. The only reason that I didn’t end it there and then was my 2 lovely children. When she returned I sat on the information for 2 weeks and then challenged her and she looked me right in the eye and LIED to me about never having contacted him. The next day we went to an exhibition and surprise surprise he turned up with his W. I was now even more convinced. There were a few other chance meetings (hmm coincidence?) eventually because of the clues that she was giving me and the clues that he was giving me in our conversations I realised that she was in love with him. Eventually before a romantic trip away I asked her outright and she then broke down and admitted that she had fallen for him, never felt this way before wasn’t “in love” with me and never had been, we shouldn’t have got married in the first place. Strange as it may seem this was quite a relief to me as I finally felt I was getting to the truth of it. We had the worst/best weekend of my life – weird I know. This was July 08 since then we have worked very very hard on our marriage. Total honesty IS the only way for us and it has caused great pain and discomfort for us both. I have challenged him about his behaviour and so has my W – he still denies it to me but half admitted it to my W – we share all the details. When the question of another skiing holiday came up I asked him if he was going and if he was I wouldn’t be and I would protect nobody when asked why. He said he was going so I pulled out and told everything. I also explained parts of it (specifically why I wouldn’t go on holiday with him) to my children with my wife present – these were dark days. She received some very nasty anonymous emails at this time – one attacking her and the next one attacking me. I now have an aversion to golf and skiing and am finding other hobbies – I am also training to be a counsellor. I have lost 72lbs (and have maintained it for over a year now) My wife and I are getting on better that we ever have – and my recollections were always good in that respect – but my new marriage is only in its second year. We did have a breakdown in communications but are very much connected to each other now. What she did was wrong – she knows it and owns it – and I understand why she did it. I wish it had never happened and so does she but neither of us can change that now. We talked about divorce and living apart - I have said that I won’t fight for her if it ever happens again – she accepts this but is not (and never was consciously) looking for anyone else. I still love her and I am “in love” with her. This man is still plagueing my life and because of my close knit circle of friends is now demanding an apology from both me and my W – WTF! – and I am starting to think that he may be a sociopath. My W wrote to his wife apologising for the part she played - this was when this years skiing came round again and I had said that I would go and face this guy with my W at my side (playing with fire potentially but I figured that at the end of it I would know where I stood) He has continuosly – even after being challenged- tried to find out how we are getting along, is always asking her brother what is happening between us and other mutual friends also. His W responded to the email that my W sent apologising for her part in the events angrily - fair enough – but then attacked me as well! Also asking me to apologise to her husband for not believing him. He has a history of affairs and cheating that she knows about – she has had therapy because of his manipulating and lying. If he is a sociopath she has my deepest sympathy and in reality can be excused for being upset with me. Because of the mutual friends, business colleagues etc (we actually are partners in a Spanish golfing property and have a small business together with the other golfing guys) NC is pretty much impossible – any one got any advice on how to deal with this guy – my wife refuses to have anything to do with him at all despite pressure from her BIL to have holidays etc. [sorry for the long post but it's so complicated
aeh Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 You sound like a pretty amazing and forgiving man. You and your W give me hope that there is a new marriage for me and my H after his affair. I think it would be pretty difficult to be in the circumstances you find yourself in and yet you have forged new interests, held your head high and acted with dignity. Kudos to you. It sounds like you and your wife have forged the beginnings of a great new relationship. Good luck to you.
2sure Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 A struggle. Even when you successfully move on with your spouse...there can be backlash from an affair. Even if it was a stranger...its a small world. I'm going to tell you what you already know: You cant change the actions of others, only your reaction to them. Its true and its freeing. Once accomplished, there is a certain real satisfaction to being able to hold your head that much higher when you run into them because you KNOW you stood above the garbage, while they continue to wallow in it. Whats more - they know it too. (He and his wife) Your wife has you, and his wife has a piece of crap. Not only that, but your wife basically rejected what the other wife has to live with. So, you see their hell. Meanwhile, the contact and questioning others WOULD in reality, drive anyone nuts. If you cant stand so very high above it all...if he should by chance email anyone in your circle, take the opportunity to forward it to his wife with a request for such queries to stop.
Author boomboom63 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Posted October 7, 2009 Thanks AEH - it's a "work in progress" and sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's beautiful. For me it is the only way forward. If both people want to make it work - it can. 2Sure - thanks and that is a great viewpoint - I really did want to hurt him/expose him etc. etc. but have never lost my temper with him - even when he has tried to provoke so maybe subconsciously I have been holding my head up high and rising above all the crap - I will continue to do that. I am a bit worried that if he is a sociopath I don't know where he'll stop. He has certainly manipulated stuff before - as an example (one of many) when I confronted him about his behaviour he told all the golfing guys that he had had a chat with me and that I just wanted to be left alone and they shouldn't call/contact me. this was about the last thing that I wanted and it took me 2 weeks of isolation before I spoke to some of them and asked for a bit of support. They were unwilling or unable to see the manipulation behind the scenes at the time (and even now to be truthful) and thankfully have been very supportive since then. I agree with you about only being able to control MY reactions - will work on that.
Athena Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 (edited) So he never actually got very far with your wife, apart from 'cosing' up to her, and then getting a half hour phone call from her? There was no actual affair, right? Just his trying to start one off with her? Correct me if I am wrong. As for your wife, she got suckered in by his charming side. He sounds like a real con man, with everyone, you (for 18 yrs friendship and never seeing this side of him), your wife (for falling in love with him), his wife (for putting her through several affairs and staying with him and being supportive of him) and even the part where he told your golfing buddies to leave you alone, and they believed him! Edited October 7, 2009 by Athena
Author boomboom63 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Posted October 7, 2009 Athena - correct there was no PA - more of an emotional one night stand with her - then very mixed signals from him for the next six months. denied he ever did anything at all - then would sidle up to her and give her a little nudge and "that look" - we had been on several holidays with him and his wife before and he had never done anything like that on any of those occasions. He was unaware that I was observing his behaviour very closely. It was like he was trying to draw her in and would then back away just to let her know that he was still interested/there if you know what I mean. He agreed with just about anything she said/ laughed at all her jokes etc. I didn't see every little detail of course (but I saw enough) and my W has had the honesty to fill in the details since she disclosed all - and that is a huge testament to her. His only answer to me challenging him about his behaviour was to say "I didn't do anything" and then when I couldn't accept that said "if I did what you say why didn't I go for it then?"
JumpinJimmy Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 I would kick his A**. Sounds like he needs it. Make sure it is just you and him with no one else around. Don't make any prior threats to him or let anyone else hear you threaten him. Then take care of business without seriously harming him. Odds are he will fade away after that.
turnstone Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 The only good thing about this situation is he isn't as good a liar and manipulator as he could be. BoomBoom63, tell me, is there any reason why you can't pull out of business with him? Why you and your wife can't expose his dealings to everyone? And why does your brother in law still have contact with him to the extent of going on holiday together? Does he not realise how inappropriate it is?
2sure Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 His only answer to me challenging him about his behaviour was to say "I didn't do anything" and then when I couldn't accept that said "if I did what you say why didn't I go for it then?" How freaking typical. His response to you is the same as it is to his BS. Its all smoke and mirrors, deflection, and defense. And sure, thats maybe natural for a person is his position BUT: What this type of person really is is too small to own what they did and worse - so selfish that they not only dont want to admit they did anything wrong but also INSIST that you believe them. INSIST that they are right and you are wrong. Its typical. Just garbage. They cant take not being in control. They cannot stand the idea that their actions have negative consequences that reflect on them. Its really disgusting, especially for their BS.
Author boomboom63 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Posted October 7, 2009 JumpinJimmy - oh yeah I thought about that ......a lot - he'd call the police for sure and that would get really messy - I know there wouldn't be any witnesses and all but I have exposed him to quite a few of my social circle and they would know:rolleyes: Turnstone - it's quite complicated - he is a good client of my company (main job) BIL is Managing Director of the same company, the golfing property is owned equally by 5 people (20% each) and to sell it now would mean we'd all lose some money on it, which I don't really give a stuff about but the other's will.
turnstone Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 Oh, the burden of money. And I'm not saying that sarcastically. I hope his lack of integrity spills into his business life for all to see, without any help from you. Or at least without any evidenced help... You'll have to excuse me, I'm probably projecting.
Author boomboom63 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Posted October 7, 2009 2Sure - you are so right - to him it is all about control - his wife has unfortunately been controlled, manipulated, lied to and cheated on and yet she STILL believes him. He pulled a similar trick on his W's best friend some years ago. He has never apologised for anything when I look back on the long years of our "friendship" - he never apologised to my W for maybe giving out signals that may have been misinterpreted. He did however say "If I did it subconsciously it was because I was thinking it and I do find you very attractive" - I'm no psychologist but that's confusing to me.
JumpinJimmy Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 I still think you should stick to the A** kicking. Just you and him with no witnesses. He can call the police all he wants, but if they have no evidence( his blood on you, bruised knuckles,etc),you don't confess and keep quiet, and he is not seriously hurt, then they have no case and won't pursue it. I will quote some prior poster who's name escapes me. Actions SCREAM and words whisper.....very true in most cases.
mem11363 Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 You have handled this incredibly well. He is skilled at nonverbal communication, he does things like make nonverbal passes - he can easily deny when challenged. You are doing everything right. Minimize communication with this guy and about him. He will try to provoke you - remember he has lost. And he lost in a humiliating way. He made a play and felt momentarily like he was going to succeed and then you made all the right moves and crushed his game. And you made it public. So he may continue to try and get you to do something stupid. Just maintain the winners calm. You won he lost. Is there a way to quietly sell out of your joint partnerships without taking a bath? It just seems that having no links with him at all would be good if that can be accomplished. In a sense he did you a huge favor. You got fit, your marriage got stronger and you are more aware of your wife. All very good things. Athena - correct there was no PA - more of an emotional one night stand with her - then very mixed signals from him for the next six months. denied he ever did anything at all - then would sidle up to her and give her a little nudge and "that look" - we had been on several holidays with him and his wife before and he had never done anything like that on any of those occasions. He was unaware that I was observing his behaviour very closely. It was like he was trying to draw her in and would then back away just to let her know that he was still interested/there if you know what I mean. He agreed with just about anything she said/ laughed at all her jokes etc. I didn't see every little detail of course (but I saw enough) and my W has had the honesty to fill in the details since she disclosed all - and that is a huge testament to her. His only answer to me challenging him about his behaviour was to say "I didn't do anything" and then when I couldn't accept that said "if I did what you say why didn't I go for it then?"
inhindsight Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 Because of the mutual friends, business colleagues etc (we actually are partners in a Spanish golfing property and have a small business together with the other golfing guys) NC is pretty much impossible – any one got any advice on how to deal with this guy – my wife refuses to have anything to do with him at all despite pressure from her BIL to have holidays etc. [sorry for the long post but it's so complicated Okay, first, your BIL needs to stop with pressure to go on holidays. Who made the rule that family and/or business partners had to holiday together? Regardless of whether or not your BIL believes anything, he needs to respect your wishes to minimize contact as much as possilbe. Second, I am a business advisor specifically in the area of financial matters and succession planning.. This situation is not pleasant. If it's not pleasant now, it will not be pleasant in the future. I hope you already have the proper legal documentation in place for provisions of buy/sell triggered by various events, one of them including a shotgun clause. If you truly don't care about your stake in the golf property, then I would exit. Seek legal counsel in this matter if you do not have your legal agreements in place. I do not say these things lightly at all. I realize all too well the importance of maintaining a business and your stake in these companies. If you do not think that you will be able to get over this acrimony, then you need to get out. If it will become liveable, then stay... but know that there will always be some level of discomfort there for everyone. Good luck.
Devil Inside Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 Hey BoomBoom Looks like this guy is a straight up creepy son of a b! He was grooming your wife on that trip. She thought so, you thought so, and he knew what he was doing..because if he didn't he would have apologized. I think that you are handling the situation well. I would just keep the connection with your wife strong...priorities. Don't waste too much time on this fool...do not give him any power...he doesn't deserve it.
LakesideDream Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 OK, I give. What does the subject have to do with Sociopathy? Did I miss something? This interloper sounds like every other horny predator who loves the drama, and wants to conquer another mans wife. Sociopaths are sure getting a bad name around here.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 and you hold resentment against this a-hole for how long???? Yep a major creep, but your wife played into it with a family friend, which is as low as you can go. Sorry, she was the one who strung it along, lied to you and then to top it off, the ultimate cruel act claiming she never loved you. You on the other hand know this person as a womanizer, a cheat and let it go on too long..... Yes an EA is a terrible thing, but the anger you hold I am not so sure is not misplaced. What a convoluted ugly story. You need to find yourself some better friends and business associates. I wish you luck though......
Author boomboom63 Posted October 8, 2009 Author Posted October 8, 2009 Mem - thank you - I didn't always get it right and went through the "normal" reactions denial anger etc. you have given me food for thought Hmmm... yes I did win IHS - I have no legal contracts with these guys (dumb I know) because we were a bunch of golfing friends who had an idea (after a few beers!!!) and took it a step further - I will be seeking a solution to get out of the whole thing. The whole BIL thing is about manipulation by this guy - hence my suspicions about him being a sociopath - it's the old gaslight situation - I swear I could do with a witness to each conversation that I have had with him because I hear from my BIL and friends what I supposedly said and how I reacted and when I deny this (and I KNOW I wasn't ranting /raving etc ) they look puzzled! Lakeside - the creep may be a sociopath precisely because of the manipulation of my W, me and my friends. I have no idea what his goal is (or hopefully was) but I am trying to get out of the game. DI - as usual - great and wise insight. toodamnprag - My w has admitted her faults and explained her reasons - she owned her actions - she has now been honest and open (and very very sorry which is massive kudos to her) and yeah I have been angry with her, felt betrayed, horror and all the other emotions that many people here on LS have been through. I haven't always acted in a mature or calm way at all - I know this in hindsight - this guy however has owned nothing of his behaviour and STILL (the resentment has been a long while) he continues to try to pull strings (like in the last couple of weeks)- having been exposed I would imagine that a low profile would be the sensible option? My opinion of the guy is clearly not very good but angry.......no (well a little) but a little scared of how far he may go.......yep
inhindsight Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 Mem - thank you - I didn't always get it right and went through the "normal" reactions denial anger etc. you have given me food for thought Hmmm... yes I did win IHS - I have no legal contracts with these guys (dumb I know) because we were a bunch of golfing friends who had an idea (after a few beers!!!) and took it a step further - I will be seeking a solution to get out of the whole thing. The whole BIL thing is about manipulation by this guy - hence my suspicions about him being a sociopath - it's the old gaslight situation - I swear I could do with a witness to each conversation that I have had with him because I hear from my BIL and friends what I supposedly said and how I reacted and when I deny this (and I KNOW I wasn't ranting /raving etc ) they look puzzled! Lakeside - the creep may be a sociopath precisely because of the manipulation of my W, me and my friends. I have no idea what his goal is (or hopefully was) but I am trying to get out of the game. DI - as usual - great and wise insight. toodamnprag - My w has admitted her faults and explained her reasons - she owned her actions - she has now been honest and open (and very very sorry which is massive kudos to her) and yeah I have been angry with her, felt betrayed, horror and all the other emotions that many people here on LS have been through. I haven't always acted in a mature or calm way at all - I know this in hindsight - this guy however has owned nothing of his behaviour and STILL (the resentment has been a long while) he continues to try to pull strings (like in the last couple of weeks)- having been exposed I would imagine that a low profile would be the sensible option? My opinion of the guy is clearly not very good but angry.......no (well a little) but a little scared of how far he may go.......yep boomboom! you need to get this sorted out straightaway! Even if you are not going to leave the company NOW, you should ALL have your ducks in a row in the event ANY of you want to relinquish ownership. You should start with your company with your BIL first - two owners - much simpler. You need to realise that if one of you gets finished off by a lightning bolt tomorrow, what the ramifications are going to be. For example, in your golf resort company, if one of you equity shareholders dies, without an agreement, the stake in the company transfers to his wife. Therefore, your new partner is a widow with little to no knowledge on this company or how to contribute to its success. You then would all need to buy her out of her shares, but at what price? how do you know if the amount hasn't been pre-agreed upon in a legal agreement? Messy messy If you need advice, i'm happy to help. I don't have PM priveleges yet, but I'm happy to provide my private email to a mod or admin who can pass it to you. Otherwise, please go consult with a financial planner specializing in business strategy. They could easily refer you to a corporate lawyer. I'm sure you have your own corp accountant already. And sorry to lecture you on this here. I realise it doesn't really address your original issue, but I do get quite concerned when I see businesses that have a potential to go bust without legal agreements. As for this guy - he is a total prick who is manipulating others into thinking you are a hypersensitive lying guy with a nothing on his mind but a pissing contest. UGH. Stay clear of him as much as possible. And your wife - best of luck to you both. I am hoping this experience has led you to better communication and the realisation that there is too much love to be lost.
Author boomboom63 Posted October 9, 2009 Author Posted October 9, 2009 IHS - thanks for your offer - the support from people on LS is amazing you are bang on in your assessment - I am seeking advice from a lawyer to try to extricate myself from the golf thing. The main business with BIL is well established and has nothing to do with the creep (apart from him being a big client). I can cope with that. As for my W and marriage - we continue to work on it everyday and both admit to each other (and to ourselves) our various mistakes and flaws. the process continues, it isn't what it was (and never will be) but it is pretty amazing to me still - say 8/10 instead of 9.5/10:). I believe that we are all allowed to make mistakes and it's how we deal with these mistakes that determines who we are - we either learn from them or we carry on making them. My W and I have learned from this one.
Recommended Posts