Two years later... still struggling to forgive

[Katerina]

I'm sure my story is very similar to many other, so I'll try to make a long story short. Two years ago I found out that my husband had an affair for 1.5 yrs. When I found out, they supposedly had just broken up (because we moved away). I was hearbroken, etc. etc. Decided to forgive him. We have 2 small children. I thought I still loved him. Four months later I found out that he had been in touch with her every (!) day via text messaging for those 4 months. There were a couple of phone calls too. I started making plans to leave him. He begged for forgiveness, changed his phone number, etc. (by that time their long-distance affair obviously started to cool down anyway). I decided to give him another chance. Since then he's tried really hard to make it work - he even found us a great marriage counselor whereas before he was totally against seeing one. We had a few appts, then stopped going due to busy schedules. He's great with the kids, does a lot of things around the house... is affectionate and loving to me if I let him... BUT every single day I think of them two... what they did together, how he had sex with her way more often than he ever did with me, how he couldn't give her up even after I found out and was in such a bad shape yet eventually forgiving him... We've had good and bad periods the last year or so... even sex life was good for a while, but one day I just couldn't take it anymore. Every time we were intimate I'd think of her, of them... that he must have touched her the same way or kissed her the same way, etc. So now I keep my distance from him.. We're civilized to each other, but he knows I'm still mad at him. I bring the affair up once in a while, I just can't help it. We're seeing out therapist tomorrow again, for the first time in probably half a year. I want my children to have a complete family, but I don't know if I can ever love him like I used to, if I can ever stop thinking about his betrayal.

One last thing... when I was a mess and didn't think he loved me, I had a date myself. I didn't even like the guy, I was really messed up and hurt. My husband hardly ever brings this up because he says it's a painful memory to him. But c'mon - that couldn't possibly compare to almost 2 years of f***ing her on a weekly basis! Rigth after the affair he told him he thought he loved her... now he's saying that he was "messed up", that he had his own emotional/psychological issues that he was working through and wasn't able to make the right choices. So now he says it was all a fake, not real, that he never actually loved. I don't believe him.

 

Anyway, I don't know how to get over his affair... I would rather leave him, but I can't do this to my kids. They don't deserve it.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Katerina
errors

[hopeful1980]

I'm a wife with two small children. I'd do anything to keep my family together as well, so I can imagine how you feel even though I've never been through it myself.

 

However, what really stuck out to me in your post is when you said that the kids don't deserve it. No, the don't deserve a father who cheats on their mother. They don't deserve a mother who sacrifices her dignity (although very noble) in order to salvage something that she didn't destroy. It's not fair and I'm sure the kids will be alright should you decide to leave your husband. But if you don't and you decide to work it out, I understand. I just wanted to tell you it's not your fault and I'm sure your kids in time will understand why you did what you did.

 

Best of luck to you.

[Katerina]

hopeful1980, I come from a divorced family. I was 13-14 when my parents divorced. I wouldn't want my kids to go through what my brother and I went through.... Also, if he was still unfaithful or a jerk, I would definitely consider leaving. But he seems remourseful, so maybe he does deserve another chance? The problem is, I don't know how to go on, how to leave the affair behind us, how to "re-build" what we had. I have no hope of our relationship ever being as it used to. It's not that we fight all the time... we have good times, but there's no emotional closeness anymore.

 

FYI, we've been married for over 15 yrs. Kids are in elementary school. If they were younger, they wouldn't remember the divorce or ask questions, but not now. They ADORE their father!

[hopeful1980]

Katerina, have you seen a therapist for yourself? Maybe he/she can help you put your own feeling of the matter in order.

[Katerina]

Yes, but not lately.

[LakesideDream]

Terrible situation, I feel for you. Two years may not be long enough to forgive. Ten years may not be enough time to forgive. This might be when you have to begin thinking seriously about the long term possibility of the survival for your relationship.

 

The relationship may have run it's course. You may not be able to forgive. That's reality. I hope there are some answers for you here on LS. There are many folks here who have been through the same situation you are in.

 

I have no advice on the children involved. It's not going to be a good situation for them. Many here will tell you that one "happy" parent is better than two unhappy ones. I'm not so sure. That question may be one of the most pressing in our society today.

 

Good luck, lean on the folks here, they are full of care and good advice.

[NowhereToHide]

hopeful1980, I come from a divorced family. I was 13-14 when my parents divorced. I wouldn't want my kids to go through what my brother and I went through.... Also, if he was still unfaithful or a jerk, I would definitely consider leaving. But he seems remourseful, so maybe he does deserve another chance? The problem is, I don't know how to go on, how to leave the affair behind us, how to "re-build" what we had. I have no hope of our relationship ever being as it used to. It's not that we fight all the time... we have good times, but there's no emotional closeness anymore.

 

FYI, we've been married for over 15 yrs. Kids are in elementary school. If they were younger, they wouldn't remember the divorce or ask questions, but not now. They ADORE their father!

 

 

I am so sorry for your pain.

 

I, too, came from a divorced situation... an infidelity-caused situation, unfortunately. If you can fix the marriage, then certainly try. But it doesn't seem like what you're doing is working, at least for you.

 

I think you need to get into individual counseling, but also marriage counseling. There seems to be some unresolved feelings that maybe a therapist can help bring to light? Sometimes hearing things from an objective source like a therapist can help for men.

 

Good luck.

[Snowflower]

Hi Katerina, I'm so sorry for your pain. I can hear your anguish in your words.

 

I just want to address one thing in your post...your said your husband told you initially that he loved the OW but now, 2 years later, he says he was confused at that time and that it was a result of his own emotional/psychological issues. And he has since come to realize he didn't love the OW.

 

I think at least this part you can believe about your husband. Two years is a lot of time for him to sort out how he felt and I think you can believe what he now tells you. Not that he was necessarily lying to you before but he was wrapped up with his own issues at that point and likely didn't know what he was feeling. This is almost verbatim for anyone who has become involved in an affair-the confusion and convoluted feelings that arise are so common.

 

I'm glad you and your husband are going to counseling. I think it will help you both sort out your feelings.

[silktricks]

Hi Katerina, I'm so sorry this has happened to you. Getting over an affair is very difficult under the best of circumstances.

 

1st, anything I say to you is NOT universal. This is stuff that applied to me and my situation. It may help you and may not.

 

You are the only person who knows your insides. You are the only person who has even a slight understanding of what you can and cannot do. It's been 2 years, though, and it doesn't seem to me that the 2 of you are doing the "right" things to recover your marriage. You have good reasons to work at recovery, though - your children.

I encourage you to return to mc - and not let anything interfere with it in the future.

 

Do you feel that your husband is now being open and honest? Plus are you being open with him? In other words when you have questions or doubts do you talk to him, or do you shut down? I encourage you to talk - and if necessary talk "loudly"

 

Does he realize that the lies he told after D-Day were a multiplier for your pain - not just an addition? Do you?

 

Are you afraid that if you permit yourself to trust him that he will lie to you again? Since the 2nd set of lies were exposed have any further been discovered? It's now been 2 years, if you are anything like me you have tested and retested him subsequently, did he pass or fail those subsequent tests? If you have not done that, I would encourage you to do so. You need to learn in your heart whether you can trust him again.

 

Do you have difficulty believing that he would not still be continuing the affair had you not moved? If so, does he know you think this?

 

JMO, but you won't really be able to begin to work on rebuilding your marriage until you can look at him objectively and say. "If I met this man today, and we were both divorced, would I be interested enough to go out with him?". If the answer is "yes", then you've got someplace to start.

 

I wish you all the best from the bottom of my heart. BTW, don't believe it that a marriage cannot be recovered. It can.

[NowhereToHide]

I'm sure my story is very similar to many other, so I'll try to make a long story short. Two years ago I found out that my husband had an affair for 1.5 yrs. When I found out, they supposedly had just broken up (because we moved away). I was hearbroken, etc. etc. Decided to forgive him. We have 2 small children. I thought I still loved him. Four months later I found out that he had been in touch with her every (!) day via text messaging for those 4 months. There were a couple of phone calls too. I started making plans to leave him. He begged for forgiveness, changed his phone number, etc. (by that time their long-distance affair obviously started to cool down anyway). I decided to give him another chance. Since then he's tried really hard to make it work - he even found us a great marriage counselor whereas before he was totally against seeing one. We had a few appts, then stopped going due to busy schedules. He's great with the kids, does a lot of things around the house... is affectionate and loving to me if I let him... BUT every single day I think of them two... what they did together, how he had sex with her way more often than he ever did with me, how he couldn't give her up even after I found out and was in such a bad shape yet eventually forgiving him... We've had good and bad periods the last year or so... even sex life was good for a while, but one day I just couldn't take it anymore. Every time we were intimate I'd think of her, of them... that he must have touched her the same way or kissed her the same way, etc. So now I keep my distance from him.. We're civilized to each other, but he knows I'm still mad at him. I bring the affair up once in a while, I just can't help it. We're seeing out therapist tomorrow again, for the first time in probably half a year. I want my children to have a complete family, but I don't know if I can ever love him like I used to, if I can ever stop thinking about his betrayal.

One last thing... when I was a mess and didn't think he loved me, I had a date myself. I didn't even like the guy, I was really messed up and hurt. My husband hardly ever brings this up because he says it's a painful memory to him. But c'mon - that couldn't possibly compare to almost 2 years of f***ing her on a weekly basis! Rigth after the affair he told him he thought he loved her... now he's saying that he was "messed up", that he had his own emotional/psychological issues that he was working through and wasn't able to make the right choices. So now he says it was all a fake, not real, that he never actually loved. I don't believe him.

 

Anyway, I don't know how to get over his affair... I would rather leave him, but I can't do this to my kids. They don't deserve it.

 

 

I thought I was madly in love with my AP. I couldn't imagine a life without him. Now six months later of limited contact, I can tell you that I needed to BELIEVE that I was in love with him for many reasons (that I'm figuring out through therapy).

 

We told each other that we loved each other after only two weeks. Trust me when I tell you that affairs and the "fog" that comes with it is powerful stuff. It is almost as if you aren't in your right mind. I am amazed that I could tell him that I loved him after such a short time (and at the time I believed it).

 

Hindsight (and insight into myself through therapy) has provided me with a much better perspective on what was going on. And I don't believe that I was in love with him (not 100% sure, but close).

 

If your husband is telling you that he realizes now that he wasn't in love, he is probably telling you the truth, especially if this realization is coming after some self analysis and insight into his motivations for entering the affair in the first place.

[aeh]

I decided to give him another chance. Since then he's tried really hard to make it work - he even found us a great marriage counselor whereas before he was totally against seeing one. We had a few appts, then stopped going due to busy schedules. He's great with the kids, does a lot of things around the house... is affectionate and loving to me if I let him... BUT every single day I think of them two... what they did together, how he had sex with her way more often than he ever did with me, how he couldn't give her up even after I found out and was in such a bad shape yet eventually forgiving him... We've had good and bad periods the last year or so... even sex life was good for a while, but one day I just couldn't take it anymore. Every time we were intimate I'd think of her, of them... that he must have touched her the same way or kissed her the same way, etc. So now I keep my distance from him.. We're civilized to each other, but he knows I'm still mad at him. I bring the affair up once in a while, I just can't help it. We're seeing out therapist tomorrow again, for the first time in probably half a year. I want my children to have a complete family, but I don't know if I can ever love him like I used to, if I can ever stop thinking about his betrayal.

One last thing... when I was a mess and didn't think he loved me, I had a date myself. I didn't even like the guy, I was really messed up and hurt. My husband hardly ever brings this up because he says it's a painful memory to him. But c'mon - that couldn't possibly compare to almost 2 years of f***ing her on a weekly basis!

 

Similar deal for me....still doesn't compare to my H's f***ing her for ten months on a weekly basis.

Rigth after the affair he told him he thought he loved her... now he's saying that he was "messed up", that he had his own emotional/psychological issues that he was working through and wasn't able to make the right choices. So now he says it was all a fake, not real, that he never actually loved. I don't believe him.

 

Anyway, I don't know how to get over his affair... I would rather leave him, but I can't do this to my kids. They don't deserve it.

 

I can so relate to all of what you have posted. I am only three months out from D-Day now, but feel all these same emotions. I sympathize greatly with what you are going through and my fear is that I will still feel like this two years out....as you do. Like me, you must dwell and all of the details. That is what my H tells me. I wish I could get past them. Do you try to push these thoughts out of your mind? Do you go back and revisit them over and over and over? I am thinking that is the only way I will ever move forward. Otherwise, I will spiral into a pit of bitterness, anger, hopelessness. I am not anywhere near forgiving of course. Do you think you want to forgive him? I ask this because right now, I guess I don't even want to forgive my H but at the same time, if I don't bear the pain, then my children will. Also, my H is a great dad, is super around the house, loving, affectionate, everything I could want, really. But I guess I am scared to stop being mad because I feel like I want him to feel my pain, know how badly it hurt me. My H remarked to me that other friends of ours whose husbands did this "took it better than I did". Those weren't his exact words, but that is the gist of it. He thinks that when he saw how "easy" these guys got off with it that it gave him some sort of implicit permission. Of course, that just makes me madder. Is your H remorseful? Do you think you're better off with him or without him?

[Katerina]

Hi Katerina, I'm so sorry for your pain. I can hear your anguish in your words.

 

I just want to address one thing in your post...your said your husband told you initially that he loved the OW but now, 2 years later, he says he was confused at that time and that it was a result of his own emotional/psychological issues. And he has since come to realize he didn't love the OW.

 

I think at least this part you can believe about your husband. Two years is a lot of time for him to sort out how he felt and I think you can believe what he now tells you. Not that he was necessarily lying to you before but he was wrapped up with his own issues at that point and likely didn't know what he was feeling. This is almost verbatim for anyone who has become involved in an affair-the confusion and convoluted feelings that arise are so common.

 

 

This is a totally new perspective for me. I've been thinking that the only reason he says now he didn't love her is because he hasn't been with her for a while now... you know how it is - "love dies w/o expression." It's true that he did a lot of soul searching... it's just he treated me like sh*t most of the time during the affair and shortly after, so how can I believe that he supposedly loved me throughout the affair and not her???

[Katerina]

silktricks, thanks for all the comments and questions. I am not sure if your questions were rhetorical, but I'll reply anyway...

 

Does he realize that the lies he told after D-Day were a multiplier for your pain - not just an addition? Do you?

Absolutely! We both understand that the second time was almost worst than the first time. I went through hell and started to believe him again, only to find out he was still lying.

 

Are you afraid that if you permit yourself to trust him that he will lie to you again? Since the 2nd set of lies were exposed have any further been discovered? It's now been 2 years, if you are anything like me you have tested and retested him subsequently, did he pass or fail those subsequent tests? If you have not done that, I would encourage you to do so. You need to learn in your heart whether you can trust him again.

I used to have those fears, but I think I can trust him now for the most part... It's scary to trust him again, but I think deep down he's a decent person and regrets what he's done deeply. He kind of "grew up" through that experience and knows now what he wants out of life (never mind that he's almost 40)... However, there are days when I still wonder where or who he is with, but I think it's all in my head. He hasn't given me any reason not to trust him again. I still check his phone sometimes, though (text messages and phone bills was how I found about the affair both times).

 

Do you have difficulty believing that he would not still be continuing the affair had you not moved? If so, does he know you think this?

Yes, and I think he'd end up with her just because he was "closer emotionally to her than me" at that time (his words). He says had he made that mistake, he would completely regret it. He also says that deep down he knew that what he had with her was going to end, that it was never meant to be permanent.

 

JMO, but you won't really be able to begin to work on rebuilding your marriage until you can look at him objectively and say. "If I met this man today, and we were both divorced, would I be interested enough to go out with him?". If the answer is "yes", then you've got someplace to start.

I've asked myself this question before. Yes, I would be interested in him. However, NOT if if found out he cheated on me.... do I make any sense?

Edited October 7, 2009 by Katerina
typos

[Katerina]

aeh,

 

Our therapist suggested ways to replace negative thoughts with positive ones. I tried that and it worked for a while, even though it was very hard mental work. The emotional pain I feel now is not as bad as it used to be (I really sympathize with you... 3 months is a really short time.. the pain must be so fresh still), but as I said before I still tend to "get stuck". The affair is always on the back of my mind - it's awful. I don't want to feel this way, but I almost feel that if I stop being mad, I'd accept what he's done and I can NEVER accept that! I've read that what I need to accept is his apology, not his actions, but it's hard to separate the two.

 

I don't know if I want to forgive him. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I dream of a happy family once again... there were even times when I thought that this horrible experiences has strengthened our marriage, but then it all goes downward again... Like you, I just can't let go of the pain and the hurt and the images...

 

That's awful about what your H said about his friends... I'm really sorry.

[Katerina]

Thank you, all, for your replies. I'm very touched with all the responses.

Edited October 7, 2009 by Katerina
typo

[bluegreen12]

One last thing... when I was a mess and didn't think he loved me, I had a date myself. I didn't even like the guy, I was really messed up and hurt.

 

Did you sleep with the guy?

 

How do you feel about divorce? Do you think you would be happier without him?

[silktricks]

This is a totally new perspective for me. I've been thinking that the only reason he says now he didn't love her is because he hasn't been with her for a while now... you know how it is - "love dies w/o expression." It's true that he did a lot of soul searching... it's just he treated me like sh*t most of the time during the affair and shortly after, so how can I believe that he supposedly loved me throughout the affair and not her???

Ahhhh K, this is sooo common. When having an affair they KNOW they are doing something wrong. The only way they can make that OK internally is to turn their spouse into a bad person in their mind. After the affair is over the truth starts to seep back in. Two years has let hin gain some perspective.

[silktricks]

silktricks, thanks for all the comments and questions. I am not sure if your questions were rhetorical, but I'll reply anyway..

they weren't rhetorical .

 

 

Absolutely! We both understand that the second time was almost worst than the first time. I went through hell and started to believe him again, only to find out he was still lying.

that's good. Especially that he understands the additional damage.

 

 

I used to have those fears, but I think I can trust him now for the most part... It's scary to trust him again, but I think deep down he's a decent person and regrets what he's done deeply. He kind of "grew up" through that experience and knows now what he wants out of life (never mind that he's almost 40)... However, there are days when I still wonder where or who he is with, but I think it's all in my head. He hasn't given me any reason not to trust him again. I still check his phone sometimes, though (text messages and phone bills was how I found about the affair both times).

the fear takes a long time to go away. The fact that you can believe hin most of the time now is really good! It would be great if age stopped stupidity, but unfortunately, it doesn't. Stupid acts, however, quite often do teach us. So your husband probably has truly been taught a rough lesson (granted, one he should have already known.. But we're all fools in different ways.

 

Yes, and I think he'd end up with her just because he was "closer emotionally to her than me" at that time (his words). He says had he made that mistake, he would completely regret it. He also says that deep down he knew that what he had with her was going to end, that it was never meant to be permanent.

if he truly wanted to be with her, distance would not have stood in his way. He could still have divorced you and either moved her to where he is or moved back. This is not good thinking. It's your insecurity rather than reality. When push came to shove - when you found out - he chose you. So that he

Said he felt closer to her - at that time he probably did. He was actively pushing you away so that he'd feel less guilty. After all, if he could convince himself that you weren't "meeting his needs" then he'd have a better excuse to indulge in a little self-gratification. Remember, this was all about HIM - not you.

 

Good luck and hugs

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've asked myself this question before. Yes, I would be interested in him. However, NOT if if found out he cheated on me.... do I make any sense?

[silktricks]

Hi K. I just reread my prior post and realized I left a dangling quote.

 

Anyway, the fact that he, as a man, is still someone who would interest you is great. One of the things I did was simply that. I concentrated on the fact that this man - the man in front of me was a man who attracted me. The other man, the one who had cheated - he was a different person. I could see the difference, and feel the difference. This man had undergone many changes - permanent changes.

 

Additionally, I knew that a new relationship with a new man would not only not offer more or greater trust - but possibly less. This man had learned a life lesson that a different man may have not faced. IMO that increased rather than decreased his trustworthiness.

[Katerina]

 

How do you feel about divorce? Do you think you would be happier without him?

 

Not sure about happier, but whenever I think about leaving, I think that at least I wouldn't have to deal with all the feelings I have when around him. I know for sure, if it weren't for the kids, I would have left shortly after d-day.

 

As for the other question, I'm purposely avoiding answering. Not a pleasant topic.

[Katerina]

if he truly wanted to be with her, distance would not have stood in his way. He could still have divorced you and either moved her to where he is or moved back.

 

Based on how indifferent he was toward me during the affair and afterwards, I've concluded that he stayed with me because of the kids and also his reputation... He held a very important position on his last job (when he had the affair) and he also grew up in a nice Christian family - what a shame it would have been to leave his wife and kids for a lover!

 

It sounds like you've found some peace. This is great. Do you have any advice for me on how to stop obsessing about them being intimate together? This is why I stopped being intimate with my H as of late... because every time he touches me I think about how he touched her the same way, etc. Btw, therapy session is today; I got the dates mixed up the other day.

 

P.S. I definitely would NOT divorce my H in hopes to have another, better relationship with someone else! I've lost all trust in people, especially in men. Also, I no longer wish a MAN to make me happy - I look for satisfaction in life and happiness in my children and career.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Katerina

[giotto]

the only way is to have IC, I'm afraid... or to divorce him. I admire you... you are very brave. I could not forgive an affair, let alone carrying on being intimate with my spouse...

[Katerina]

I could not forgive an affair, let alone carrying on being intimate with my spouse...

 

I always thought and always said that I could never forgive an affair. I'm doing this for my children's sake.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Katerina

[giotto]

What is IC? I always thought and always said that I could never forgive an affair. I'm doing this for my children's sake.

 

Sorry, IC = individual counselling... I wasn't talking about forgiving, but to come to terms with it, so you can deal with it and be strong for your children in this unpleasant situation. Are you planning to leave your husband when the kids flee the nest or do you think you marriage is salvageable?

[silktricks]

Based on how indifferent he was toward me during the affair and afterwards, I've concluded that he stayed with me because of the kids and also his reputation... He held a very important position on his last job (when he had the affair) and he also grew up in a nice Christian family - what a shame it would have been to leave his wife and kids for a lover!

sorry, but to my mind that only speaks to how little regard he actually had for her. But as we all know, affairs are not about either the spouse or the AP. They are about the MP and their selfish attitude.

It sounds like you've found some peace. This is great. Do you have any advice for me on how to stop obsessing about them being intimate together? This is why I stopped being intimate with my H as of late... because every time he touches me I think about how he touched her the same way, etc. Btw, therapy session is today; I got the dates mixed up the other day.

I obsessed on purpose. I drove my brain to think of nothing else until it simply rebelled. I don't actually recommend my way of doing things as they seem to be the opposite of what most mental health pros recommend.

P.S. I definitely would NOT divorce my H in hopes to have another, better relationship with someone else! I've lost all trust in people, especially in men. Also, I no longer wish a MAN to make me happy - I look for satisfaction in life and happiness in my children and career.

True happiness comes from within, but most people both enjoy and in some measure require the companionship of a mate. Be careful of denying yourself a fulfilling relationship because of fear of getting hurt again. The best thing to do with pain is learn from it, but this is different from learning not to touch a hot stove. It's learning how to not allow this experience to damage you internally.