Author tigressA Posted October 5, 2009 Author Posted October 5, 2009 Right. And if I wanted to be technical about that quiz thing, the one person who can and will tell me that it's okay to be me, who can and will love me for who I am is, well...me. I'm not sure of exactly how to let go though. I sometimes feel as though these experiences are ingrained and I can't shake them, that I can't prevent them from influencing my relationships. I did go to counseling here at school for an extended period of time about two years ago and it really helped. I think it would be a good idea to go again so that I can learn ways to let go.
eiithan Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 OP, I am sorry that you had a rough time. I can relate, I used to an ugly duckling too. However, let's look at this way. You know what it is like being treated poorly only because of the physical surface. You can understand other people's pain. You are not going to just turn around and say mean words such as "well, it's because s/he is ugly, s/he deserves such an unfair treatment." You can sympathise and it can help you become a better person. And you should be able to see through when a right man comes along who can appreciate you for who you are rather than what a pretty face you have. Dressing up may be a big deal in college, but it is also a temporal issue. I went to school in a town where people tend to underdress. Before the school started, I went to look for a housing and the manager thought I was a grad student because of the way I dressed up in a trench coat and all that. My ex boyfriend, a metrosexual New Yorker, had more difficult time adjusting. Funny thing is, that whole underdressing culture had to go once I took up a job. I had to revamp my entire wardrobe to meet the requirement of professional appearance. Even worse, my first job was at a magazine company where everyone was superbly dressed up. Now I am going back to school for my master's and no, I am not going to change my dress code to accommodate other people. The bottomline is, be comfortable about yourself no matter what you wear/do. Trust me. It is hard to maintain a relationship with a person who is not comfortable with who s/he is.
Trialbyfire Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Counselling is a step in the right direction, if your counsellor has the expertise in this area. I'm guessing that any onsite counsellor at an educational institution would be pretty good with this kind of thing, since many young women struggle with personal image issues. Intellectually, you know you're a composite of all your qualities, both good and bad. Emotionally, you're still trapped in the past, to an extent. As a starting point, it might be worthwhile to just relax about dating. If it happens, it happens. In the interim, one baby step would be to dress to please you, including comfort level. The less you dress to impress others, perhaps it might help you accept you, as you are. If there are things you're not happy with, inside of you. Try to fix the smallest thing you can find. With each success, comes more confidence and also, potentially more "like" for yourself, by yourself. Awkward wording but I think it communicates what I'm trying to say.
Trialbyfire Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 I just had a quick thought. Ultimately, you need to learn to combine the two, into one real person. The person on the outside and the person on the inside.
RickyAvon Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Well, I have pursued guys I like, but that's never worked out. Either they weren't into me for whatever reason or they might've been intimidated by me making the first move. I guess I can understand the whole low-maintenance appearance thing. I have had some guys tell me that because of the way I present myself--the way I dress, etc--that I seem intimidating. Almost all my friends say that I "dress up" all the time, but I don't consider how I dress "dressing up" at all! I think it's ridiculous how so many people think it's acceptable to go outside and to classes in sweatpants, a hoodie and sneakers all the time. To me it just communicates that you don't care about yourself, that you lack confidence. You sound alot like my GF/XGF. That is a good and bad thing. Dressing up is great. Always having to be dressed up is not great to most guys. Most guys want to be with their version of the hottest girl at the dance, but when it comes time to have fun, they want to unwind and have fun and not have her tweak out. Is that you? Could you go camping? Would you have fun wearing sports gear to a game? If it rains out are you overly worried about your hair getting wet? Do you appear fragile or 'ready to break?' I ask these questions because they have been very common in my life recent about relationships and women. I was recently at a wedding and the most desirable girl there was a very pretty girl, but when it came to have fun she was able to throw her heals off, buckle down with the boys, and enjoy some ole fashion drinking. If a woman conveys the 'slut' aura or the 'high-maintenance' aura, forget it. Few guys will see a future with her. High-maintenance to me would be: - always have been to dressed perfectly; rather, dress for the occasion. - needing constant maintenance, i.e. attention, tlc, etc. - a woman who cannot wander off on her own and be ok at a party, particularly if it is mutual or familiar friends. - needing constant updates of where the guy is. - automatically defaulting to plans with each other. - becoming upset, whiney, or angry when not enough attention is given, to the point it builds to a head and becomes a fight. I find that HM people don't give themselves enough love. They expect love to come from external means and thus are always desiring to be fed love, affection, attention, or sexual gratification. It may not appear to them in that regard, because they may give back to some extent, but once the dam is closed, they often become whiney like babies. A man, to see a woman as LTR potential, must see the woman integrating well into his life without much of a complete overhaul. Oh sure, the drinking nights to find ass at the bars will cease, as should excessive video gaming nights, but a guy shouldn't be expected to overhaul his whole life just to fit a woman in it. Both people must maintain identities to have anything left for the other person to love about them. The wardrobe you described is not out of order for me living in the Northeast, as most women dress very classy. Girls who dress 'casually' as you put it often get the bottom-of-the-rung guys, are thus are subject to whatever they can get. You don't necessarily come across HM, but from this thread I cannot ascertain a final answer based on any of the prior responses. It also maybe the quality of the guys you are dating and so it is them, NOT you. Everyone wants to be loved for who they are, but our appearance is like a giant bilboard broadcasting who we are before we have a chance to prove who we are. I respect the fact you post this and were as open about yourself as you have been. Many woman do not critically analyze themselves, rather they just bounce from guy to guy hoping Mr. Perfect will fix her notorious flaws instead of just putting in that little effort to understand oneself and make a good relationship great. RickyAvon
Author tigressA Posted October 5, 2009 Author Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) I actually am very comfortable with the way I put myself together. I love to dress well and mix and match, create new looks, all that stuff. And I really do hate wearing sneakers and sweatpants. I guess I'm just not comfortable with the assumptions/connotations that come with it--that I'm high-maintenance, that I'm intimidating, etc when I'm really not. It upsets me that people have thought that about me just because of the way I look. I never changed my appearance for anyone. People see me all the time--my housemates, for one, with my hair messed up, with my pajamas on, etc. I guess it's more that I was always taught that dressing well is one of the best things you can do to project confidence, yet I'm surrounded by all these people who look like they don't care about how they look in public, and they're probably mistaking my projected confidence for arrogance or what have you. And then I let that get to me--I don't change for people, but I let what they may/may not be thinking bother me a whole lot and I shouldn't. And then that probably somehow comes off as being uncomfortable. Edited October 5, 2009 by tigressA
Phateless Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 I think you're onto something with that last line. Don't worry about what people think of you, just spend more time making yourself a better person. Being comfortable in your own skin is the most important thing. As far as the defensiveness thing, that's definitely something to work on. Relationships are always a risk, so try to take it in stride. Do you have any male friends who might provide some insight? EDIT - A lot of find ourselves recreating past dramas because we want to "do it right this time." Is it possible that the types of guys you're getting involved with have something in common with people who have hurt you in the past? TBF makes a lot of sense talking about your "people picker."
singlegirl Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Some girls are just plain sexy....I have a similar problem even if men don't like me they still want to sleep with me? I think the trick is not to sleep with anyone unless you know exactly how they feel about you....
boogieboy Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Tigress guys dont blow off women saying their not gf material because they dress like a winner, I'm pretty sure myself that your wardrobe has nothing to do with anything. In fact the way you dress should be a reason to keep you! Maybe call up some ex flames and see if they'll be honest? Something about you is rubbing these guys the wrong way. What about this....Maybe the guys you want only want really white women? Maybe they cant roll with the swirl? I wouldnt be surprised if that was something that they are afraid to say....Its the same problem I run into...
Author tigressA Posted October 6, 2009 Author Posted October 6, 2009 EDIT - A lot of find ourselves recreating past dramas because we want to "do it right this time." Is it possible that the types of guys you're getting involved with have something in common with people who have hurt you in the past? TBF makes a lot of sense talking about your "people picker." I think YOU'RE onto something with that, actually. In a way, all my exes except my last one and other guys I liked were very...popular? Very conventionally good-looking, etc. And those were the same guys who picked on me all the time in high school. I was always on the fringe before college; I had really good friends but at the same time I was never one of the "pretty, popular girls". All my friends were able to date. I wasn't because no one wanted to break out of their comfort zone and date the token mixed-race girl.
Author tigressA Posted October 6, 2009 Author Posted October 6, 2009 Maybe call up some ex flames and see if they'll be honest? Something about you is rubbing these guys the wrong way. What about this....Maybe the guys you want only want really white women? Maybe they cant roll with the swirl? I wouldnt be surprised if that was something that they are afraid to say....Its the same problem I run into... This is what I just got into replying to Phateless's post. I wonder this myself. Because every single guy I've been involved with, exclusive relationship or casual hookup (I can still count them all combined on one hand), I was the first non-white girl they had ever been with. Ever. I never had a problem with parents disliking me or anything. I just wonder if, in the end, they were truly comfortable being with me, with the skin color difference between us. I know my most recent ex was the only one who would be truly comfortable discussing racial issues with me (he's white too). So that very well could be a reason. I don't think I'll ever know for sure though. And I can't really call up any ex-flames, even if I would want to. I only have three. One of them is married and I don't have his number or any way to look him up--no Facebook, MySpace, whatever. The second one dropped out of school; I wouldn't want to talk to him anyway--something really traumatic happened after our breakup and things just did not end well. The third one I broke up with and still loves me, wants to be back with me, etc so that wouldn't help.
EcstasyX6 Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 This is what I just got into replying to Phateless's post. I wonder this myself. Because every single guy I've been involved with, exclusive relationship or casual hookup (I can still count them all combined on one hand), I was the first non-white girl they had ever been with. Ever. I never had a problem with parents disliking me or anything. I just wonder if, in the end, they were truly comfortable being with me, with the skin color difference between us. I know my most recent ex was the only one who would be truly comfortable discussing racial issues with me (he's white too). So that very well could be a reason. I don't think I'll ever know for sure though. And I can't really call up any ex-flames, even if I would want to. I only have three. One of them is married and I don't have his number or any way to look him up--no Facebook, MySpace, whatever. The second one dropped out of school; I wouldn't want to talk to him anyway--something really traumatic happened after our breakup and things just did not end well. The third one I broke up with and still loves me, wants to be back with me, etc so that wouldn't help. OK. After reading the entire thread, I'm getting a clearer picture. I'm much older than you, but when I was in college, I didn't limit my dating to any specific race. I went to a large university in a big city, so maybe because of that, it wasn't an issue. I'm an African American woman who, while in college, dated Africans, an Iranian, a Chinese guy, a couple of Hispanics, and a few white guys, and of course AA men. Even though times have changed for the better now(sort of:confused:), if you're going to a smaller college in a predominantly white community, the guys you meet may date you, but to go further may be too much out of their social norm even if deep down they really want to. Also, younger men are much less confident about what they really want, and may follow the crowd because it's what their community and family expects of them and may see you as a testing ground, or 'to see what it's like'.(I hope I'm not offending anyone, but I believe this is true. There's still some sort of myth/tabu thing going on for some reason.) However, it's funny, but men in their 30's and 40's(I know...you've got a long way for this age group;)) are much more uninhibited about this, and will practically stare you down in social settings without any qualms. My last bf was Italian, and wanted to buy me a house and marry me.(I wasn't ready for all that at the time, otherwise, I would be on the marriage forum.) Also, try checking out men who are attractive to you, but not necessarily the jock or most popular. These guys will fall in love with you. Trust me! I mean you are a pretty, smart young lady. They're not geeks, but they're often serious students who won't be seen hanging out as much. i.e. engineering students, medical students, those pursuing their masters, etc. I wasn't as pretty as you are, yet I never lacked for a date with a cute, funny, smart guy when I was in college, and I wasn't typically without a serious bf for long. So regroup, and get out there girl!
boogieboy Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Well then! I wish you mentioned this earlier. So it sounds like a filter is in order here. Once you start going out with these guys, sounds like you need to do what I do. Ask them if they or their parents has any issues with then dating a mixed race person. Right up front. Once you get the question out, if they are planning to lie, you will see it right on their faces...when the color drains. (pun intended) Then you will know who wants you just for a chocolate fantasy. Prepare for a dissappointing amount of desenters though. Youre going to eventually have to adjust your standards to non-jocks who have no problems with interracial relationships.
Trialbyfire Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Tigress and boogieboy, be careful about assumptions that it's race related. Her last ex is still in love with her and wants to get back, so he doesn't have a race issue. I suspect this isn't a race thing but I could be wrong.
Author tigressA Posted October 6, 2009 Author Posted October 6, 2009 Even though times have changed for the better now(sort of:confused:), if you're going to a smaller college in a predominantly white community, the guys you meet may date you, but to go further may be too much out of their social norm even if deep down they really want to. Also, younger men are much less confident about what they really want, and may follow the crowd because it's what their community and family expects of them and may see you as a testing ground, or 'to see what it's like'.(I hope I'm not offending anyone, but I believe this is true. There's still some sort of myth/tabu thing going on for some reason.) However, it's funny, but men in their 30's and 40's(I know...you've got a long way for this age group;)) are much more uninhibited about this, and will practically stare you down in social settings without any qualms. That is really true. When I was in high school I got some creepy, unwanted attention from older men around town. When I was home from school last summer some random guy walking a stroller with his infant daughter (I assumed she was his, anyway) came up to me and said I was the most beautiful woman he'd ever seen. Once when my dad had a couple of his friends over watching a football game apparently one of them noticed my senior photo on the mantel and was like, "Who's the babe?" My dad said, "That's no babe, that's my daughter" and kicked him out of our house. He told me this story. I thought of something just now. My most recent ex is English--his family emigrated from England when he was 4 years old, but his parents are very liberal-minded and whatnot, that whole European mindset. I think maybe that could be a reason why we lasted so long and why he really truly loved me (that's big; I never got "I love you" from the other two guys I dated)--he didn't have any hang-ups about race. He never said, "Oh, you're the first so-and-so girl I've ever been with" or anything else like that.
EcstasyX6 Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Well then! I wish you mentioned this earlier. So it sounds like a filter is in order here. Once you start going out with these guys, sounds like you need to do what I do. Ask them if they or their parents has any issues with then dating a mixed race person. Right up front. Once you get the question out, if they are planning to lie, you will see it right on their faces...when the color drains. (pun intended) Then you will know who wants you just for a chocolate fantasy. Prepare for a dissappointing amount of desenters though. Youre going to eventually have to adjust your standards to non-jocks who have no problems with interracial relationships. I didn't think she said she was of mixed race did she? And she also stated that the parents liked her.
Author tigressA Posted October 6, 2009 Author Posted October 6, 2009 Youre going to eventually have to adjust your standards to non-jocks who have no problems with interracial relationships. I didn't set my sights on jocks, specifically. Actually only one guy I dated was on a sports team at my school, and that was my first boyfriend. He ran cross-country and track. I mostly just picked them because they were "popular" in the college sense--well-known by a lot of people, well-liked by a lot of people, etc--something that I never was, at least not in a good way. I was well-known in high school, but for being the "psycho" and the "angry black girl" (I was labeled that because I actually stood up for myself and insulted the guys who picked on me right back).
Author tigressA Posted October 6, 2009 Author Posted October 6, 2009 I didn't think she said she was of mixed race did she? And she also stated that the parents liked her. Yeah, the parents liked me--but that doesn't necessarily negate the lack of comfort these guys likely had with me. My second ex actually told me that when his friends from home saw he was in a relationship, they clicked on my name to see my picture and then they were asking him "what it's like to have sex with a black chick". Uh...WTF? Like it is with any other girl, I would think! And yes, I am mixed-race. Actually back home, I was considered just "black"--some people didn't believe me when I said my mom is white. And since coming to college I've been confused for Indian constantly. All the guys I was involved with thought that's what I was before I told them what I really am.
Isolde Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Tigress, you remind me of myself in some ways. It's frustrating, but maybe see college as a time to evolve, rather than "figure everything out" dating wise. That said, it sounds like you need to meet a lot more people before figuring out the inner and outer dynamics that are at play here. That way you can focus on whether you find a guy worthy of an R, rather than wondering what he thinks of you.
boogieboy Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Tigress and boogieboy, be careful about assumptions that it's race related. Her last ex is still in love with her and wants to get back, so he doesn't have a race issue. I suspect this isn't a race thing but I could be wrong. Oh no TBF I think we nailed it... From her descriptions of these guys actions, plus her ex was from a liberated family in England, I think we have hit bingo.
Author tigressA Posted October 6, 2009 Author Posted October 6, 2009 That way you can focus on whether you find a guy worthy of an R, rather than wondering what he thinks of you. That's really true. I never thought of it that way. I never thought that way, period. In a lot of ways, because I haven't let go of what happened to me, I am pretty self-conscious and tend to care too much of what others think of me rather than what I think of me. Thanks for that.
Trialbyfire Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Oh no TBF I think we nailed it... From her descriptions of these guys actions, plus her ex was from a liberated family in England, I think we have hit bingo.Straight up, do you think that someone who has an aversion to different skin colours, would sleep with her? It's possible, but how probable? Once again, maybe I'm wrong but that sounds more like a cop out to me. And even if it is true, this is a people picker problem. If someone has a distaste for a person of another colour, it would come through in many more ways, in comments they make, etc. As these guys have been friends with her, one for 3 years, it sounds a little far-fetched.
Author tigressA Posted October 6, 2009 Author Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) Straight up, do you think that someone who has an aversion to different skin colours, would sleep with her? It's possible, but how probable? Once again, maybe I'm wrong but that sounds more like a cop out to me. And even if it is true, this is a people picker problem. If someone has a distaste for a person of another colour, it would come through in many more ways, in comments they make, etc. As these guys have been friends with her, one for 3 years, it sounds a little far-fetched. No one's talking flat-out aversion or distaste. People can not be racist but still feel uncomfortable having a serious relationship with someone outside their race, especially if they've never done it before. Like EcstasyX6 said: "Even though times have changed for the better now(sort of:confused:), if you're going to a smaller college in a predominantly white community, the guys you meet may date you, but to go further may be too much out of their social norm even if deep down they really want to. Also, younger men are much less confident about what they really want, and may follow the crowd because it's what their community and family expects of them and may see you as a testing ground, or 'to see what it's like'." Especially that testing ground thing--every guy except my ex has felt the need to mention to me that I'm the first and/or only non-white girl they'd ever been with. Honestly, I don't mean to revert to the race thing--it is very plausible but at the same time I do realize there are things I need to work on. I'm not intending to use this as an excuse to play the victim and not better myself. Edited October 6, 2009 by tigressA
boogieboy Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 (edited) Straight up, do you think that someone who has an aversion to different skin colours, would sleep with her? It's possible, but how probable? Once again, maybe I'm wrong but that sounds more like a cop out to me. And even if it is true, this is a people picker problem. If someone has a distaste for a person of another colour, it would come through in many more ways, in comments they make, etc. As these guys have been friends with her, one for 3 years, it sounds a little far-fetched. Oh HELL yeah! Guys are dogs! They will secretly sleep with a women if their friends dont know about it....people do that all the time. Can you say "Strom Thurman"???? Aight bad example, but its such a conflict, no one will admit it. These guys also will never tell her straight up that they wouldnt seriously date a black girl, she'll drop em like a bad habit! (she should anyway) OR, they will deny it, but then give her some other excuse. The usual excuses. We all know how phony people are in the world, no one tells the f*kkin truth, you have to read between the lines. And even then, if you dont read between the lines, you just write it off as, "hey they dont want me, NEXT!" The guys that like her enough to sleep with her will be as nice as they want to be, and they will be friends with her forever...but will be afraid to date her seriously. Being "friends" is ok since its not dating. Theres alot of areas of the world where it isnt an issue, theres many places where it is. For example, in NYC, everyone dates everyone. Right across the river, in Jersey, where I am, its a Big issue. But I deal with it, I look for the diamonds in the ruff. Might be that way in her school too. Its reality, its happening, its just not up front. Its taboo. its not a cop out either. The filter process will be fixed now. Ms.Tigress will be able to see the signs early on now that this is a factor, won't you hun? Come see me Tigress, those guys are cowards and they dont know what theyre missing. Edited October 6, 2009 by boogieboy
SoulSearch_CO Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 The second one said while dumping me, "I mean come on...I couldn't ever marry someone like you." I didn't even ask him what he meant by that. I didn't want to know. Well, that would have been your opportunity to find out what, exactly, the problem is. Are you friends with him at all that you could ask him? I would have asked. But that's just me. As for whom I attract. For some odd reason - older guys. Always have. Thought for sure as I'm nearing the end of my twenties that would wind down. No. And I'm not even talking the normal (guy I'm currently dating that's 14 years older) or semi-normal (XH that was 15 years older). I'm talking the guys that are like 20+ years older than me. Like, WTF, seriously? If YOU think I'm attractive, don't you possibly think that guys CLOSER to my age would, as well, and you wouldn't have a shot in hell? Yuck. It can be either my personality or just my looks...they both, for some odd reason, attract MUCH older guys. And they KNOW my age...it's not like, "Oh, oops - I thought you were older." No...they freaking KNOW I'm only 29. Haha...sorry for the rant. I run 6 miles at the local rec center on the treadmill and try my darndest to hold back my gag reflex as the guy in his 50's walks by staring at me several times trying to catch my eye. I HAD to ouch at your comments from guys about you not being dateable/marriageable. I seriously wouldn't be letting a guy slide by with a comment like that - I'd be asking him what he meant by that. But I'm a very nosey question-asker.
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