She Calls....

[Exit]

Wow, at least that conversation you had with your ex seems like a bit of a victory. I wish I could get something like that. In a very similar fashion, my ex let me take all the blame for everything that happened. In the months after the breakup where we stayed in contact, never once did she apologize or say any part of it may have been her fault. And now she's with someone new so she can continue avoiding her problems. Our ex's sound very similar. Sounds like yours may very well be taking the first steps to figuring out some of her issues, while mine is probably still neck-deep in denial and avoidance.

 

Definitely be cautious. I already see a red flag with the way she's dating someone, yet turns around and tells you things like they're "technically" together. That's not how an honest adult behaves. She still seems to be motivated by selfish reasons since she's staying with him but is also back to talking with you, she's getting everything she wants right now. Just continue on with your life, let her be the one to contact you.

[jlr]

Our ex's sound very similar. Sounds like yours may very well be taking the first steps to figuring out some of her issues, while mine is probably still neck-deep in denial and avoidance.

 

Exit. They do sound very similar. I hope mine is on the road to figuring some of this out. Of course, if that's what it even is, it's in the preliminary stages, so there's a long way to go. But, it's a sign of hope. Not that we'll get back together or anything, but that maybe she'll change her ****ty ways - something I wasn't so sure she'd ever be able to do. I'm sure you feel the same about yours, as she's in that denial and avoidance phase. I'm still jaded about all of this, still skeptical of their changing. But, the conversation I had with mine made me think that it is possible. Of course, I hope that doesn't bite me in the ass.

 

And I'm definitely continuing on with my life the same as I've been. I'm going to wait for her to contact and all that. She knows where I am with it all, she knows how to reach me.

 

Thanks to some of the others who offered advice too. It's certainly true that "in matters of the heart the rulebook gets thrown out of the window," Leveller. And it's also true that only we know what's best for ourselves. It sucks when we can't always see it.

 

I'm being very careful here everyone. I'm looking out for me for once here.

[cdt76]

I'd like to throw my two cents in. Before you do ANYTHING other than talk to her on the phone, make her PROVE to you that she has changed. Make her SHOW you she has changed her ways and is honest and truthful and open. Get her email password, find out her myspace, facebook passwords, check her phone message logs. If she hesitates then you are done. I know it sounds extreme and a bit over the top but only then can you be CERTAIN she has changed and is devoted to only you. I wouldn't throw my heart and soul back into that fire without first putting a little water on the flames, if at all.

 

I have a similar situation going only the guy turned out to be a good friend of mine that my ex cheated on me with and they are now in a "relationship". So, just protect yourself. You have a right to be selfish at this time.

[jlr]

cdt76 - you're jumping the gun. she hasn't said she wants to come back to me. nor have i said i want her to. this was just a conversation. she's not mine. nor am i hers. nor are we anywhere close to that being an option.

 

in terms of your other comments, we actually already know each others passwords to some things from being together for 5 years. we've never changed them. we never snooped on each other when we dated. i never needed to do that. we didn't have trust issues. we were always transparent. if you can't trust someone and need to be checking their phone logs or emails - you don't need to be with them in the first place. i can't say i've ever been worried about that. it's not worth it.

 

we had relationship issues, but trust wasn't one of them. i wouldn't want to be in a relationship where i worried about that. most of our demise came from her emotional breakdown, as i've explained before, not another person.

 

and she's been honest saying she's still involved with someone, even if she said "technically".

 

so i don't know about all that.

 

if we ever were to get back together, i'd want to be transparent. but i do think everyone is entitled to privacy. i believe if you can't trust what they do when they're alone, then forget it.

[jlr]

So we've talked several times now on the phone. I haven't been the one to call, I've been leaving it up to her. The conversations have all been good. Sometimes they're hard though - there's still some painful things there that come up. Most times I think she's doing good, coming to her senses. But then there's some times where I feel I'm calling her out for reverting to immature tactics, old ways. But it feels healthy, and strangely theraputic for me, even though I'm the one who's actually already gone through therapy (she says she needs to now, but I told her saying it doesn't count). I told her she needs to stop talking, and actually do what she's saying. The talks have gone on for a week now.

 

Last night, we met up in person. She was going up to a bar with some friends and invited me and I declined. I wasn't in the mood for a bar. She then asked if I was just staying in, or would be interested in a quieter setting. I agreed to meet at a coffee shop.

 

It was strange. It's been like 5 months since I've seen her. Seeing her face. God, how I missed seeing her face. The moment we saw each other - it was like time stopped for a second.

 

We both talked about how it seems like it's been an eternity.

 

We talked alot. She asked me if we could be friends. Though, all the energy between us - it felt like it went beyond friends many times. We didn't do anything, I just mean in the way we were. I told her I don't know if I can be friends, there's so much between us. She agreed, and said it's a test for her as well. She talked about how she wants to take a while to work on her. She's breaking it off with the dude she's had a casual relationship with. She wants to just work on her, be single, and not date anyone. But she would like to have me in her life, if I want that. She said she doesn't know what the future holds for us, but that it can't even be possible until she does those things for her. I agreed with that. She said we never started as friends before, so maybe we could work on being friends now and see what the future holds.

 

I told her I don't know. I said, I'm here, I showed up. That's all I can say. I can't commit to being friends, because I don't know how I feel about it yet. The shop closed, and we talked in her car for another hour or so. The whole night was weird. As we talked - in the coffee shop and car - songs played that took us back, or that we always have thought were about us. She talked about how weird it feels to walk next to me and not be holding my hand. She said how great it was to see me, and how I looked great.

 

I know she needs to fix herself. She's an emotional mess. I can feel that what we had is still there. But I don't know how long I can wait for her to get better. I don't know if I can be friends in the meantime either.

 

I'm just taking it one day at a time.

 

I don't feel awful like I did before. I feel better.

 

But I'm not naive. I don't expect this to go anywhere. Would I want it to go anywhere? I don't even know.

 

I just hope - whatever this is - it doesn't all blow up in my face.

[CaliGuy]

So some questions:

 

1. How would a friendship be mutually beneficial to you both?

2. You obviously still have feelings for her, so can you handle being her friend while she talks about the "new" guy?

 

Friendship for her is a win/lose. She wins, you lose. She rids herself of guilt and any bad feelings and you delay your healing process while you pine for her. Friendship is her way of saying "I want the benefits of a relationship with you without being IN a relationship with you".

 

My suggestion is to disappear from her life. There is no benefit to a friendship with her. At least, not for you. And if you ever want to meet someone else you need to ween her out of your life.

 

Don't answer calls, emails, texts, etc. Block her on IM, social web sites, etc. Change her name in your phone to "DO NOT ANSWER" and do your best to move on.

 

That's my advice.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Friendship??!?! WTF for? what are you getting outta it? why be on the leash to a woman who's ungrateful and doesnt enjoy you as a boyfriend, but keep you around as a friend. If you dont want to be friends, then dont. You arent missing out on anything!

[GrayClouds]

I said before all of the good thing about you that are the reason she wants to be your friend, is attached to your heart, which is attached to your dick, and for good or evil it comes as a set. Once they been purchased...No Parcel Returns.

[jlr]

All good points.

All things I'm considering strongly.

 

But what if - and yes, I realize this is a BIG what if - she's actually serious about not seeing anyone right now. What if she is going to focus on her. What if us being friends through that is part of a process to work things out? I know you'll say that's unlikely. But what if it is?

 

I mean I guess only I can judge her intentions really. And right now I'm not sure about them. What you're saying may be true. But what if it's not?

 

You're quick to write it off that it's not possible at all. And I know that's to protect me. But we all know it's not so cut and dry in love.

 

Does everyone agree with what Cali said? I value everyone's advice on here.

 

Ugh. I'm confused!

[GrayClouds]

All good points.

All things I'm considering strongly.

 

But what if - and yes, I realize this is a BIG what if - she's actually serious about not seeing anyone right now. What if she is going to focus on her. What if us being friends through that is part of a process to work things out? I know you'll say that's unlikely. But what if it is?

 

I mean I guess only I can judge her intentions really. And right now I'm not sure about them. What you're saying may be true. But what if it's not?

 

You're quick to write it off that it's not possible at all. And I know that's to protect me. But we all know it's not so cut and dry in love.

 

Does everyone agree with what Cali said? I value everyone's advice on here.

 

Ugh. I'm confused!

 

Cali is the man, his advice is consistently top notch, avoid it at your own peril.

 

Just say we follow your "big if"...she focus on herself, which means she is not concern about you (which you a far second in her life at best). Part of the focusing on herself is trying some new flavors of ice cream is that going to be fun for you to see her eating new flavors of ice cream (for those who are a bit slow...ice cream means guys) And after eating 5-6 other flavors of ice cream so she know whats "right for her" what are the chances that first flavor was the right one, the one that has been waiting in the corner melting in pain and rejection? She is going to say "after my hard work of focusing on myself" while I may like that first flavor, I do not want one that is so sloppy and messy, I deserve a fresh cone and go find it

 

So if that "big if" does happen, that best thing you can do is become a fresh cone. That is done by going No Contact and concentration on bettering yourself by working out, taking classes, reuniting with friends, new hobbies. So even if the "big if" doesn't happen your a better flavor of yourself that someone else will want to eat (again just in case for some eat = sex...and love).

[jlr]

Fair enough.

Nice ice cream analogy

I didn't say I would be friends with her if she's dating other people.

She said her plan is to be SINGLE and work on herself, and asked if I'd be friends with her during that period.

The minute she starts talking about ice cream, i'm out.

Then again, I didn't say I'm in yet.

I'm contemplating it, that's all.

[GrayClouds]

The minute she starts talking about ice cream, i'm out.

Then again, I didn't say I'm in yet.

I'm contemplating it, that's all.

 

 

In all likelihood she is already talking ice cream, but calling it gelato. So give her want she wants, space to work on herself, and then you will have space to work on yourself. You can not hang on to her is your there, she will not miss you if your there. And if she does head to Baskin Robbins you will have extended the pain of this break up for all that amount of time and will be starting over.

Edited October 20, 2009 by GrayClouds

[jlr]

I do agree that I need to not be around alot. I need to give her that time to truly be on her own to work things out. Otherwise, it's a recipe for disaster, as she'll just use me as a crutch to feel better and move on. Keeping my distance would mean she'd have to miss me.

I agree.

[GrayClouds]

I do agree that I need to not be around alot.

At all, if she wants you back that will be her decision, there is nothing you can do to influence it by spending anytime with her. Any contact is going to remind you of what you had and what you want and that is a relationship.

 

 

 

Keeping my distance would mean she'd have to miss me.

 

Keeping your distance is not about her missing you but giving you space to heal and become a better you. Read this post, read it again it you have:

 

So you want a second chance?

[jlr]

Thanks for the link.

 

On that list: 4-13 I've done completely.

 

1 "Let Go" - I have really. I mean, I know that I can make it without her. I've been doing better in the past month. Perhaps, I haven't let go of my love for her. But I'm not sure that will ever completely go away.

 

2. "No Contact" - I've also done this one, for the most part. 98% of any contact we've had was when she contacted me, especially now. I suppose there's been times where I didn't choose wisely what to respond to and what not to, sure. But I did no contact, and it made me much stronger. I understand why it's important, for sure. In fact, I was getting comfortable with it - which is why I sent her that letter, that became such a catalyst here. I knew it was dead and that I needed to let go. I had to speak my peace on some things before I bowed out. There were times when I checked her social network sites and stuff though, so I'm guilty on that part.

 

3. "Do Not Be Friends" -Well, that's the one I'm currently stuck at. But I haven't committed to being friends. I'm just processing the info. Plus, I told her that friends is essentially impossible with us, and that I can't commit to anything like that since a) she doesn't commit to me and b) I don't know how I feel about even speaking to her right now. The thing is, like I told her, I don't want to be buddies. If she's going to work on her and not date anyone, and we have conversations from time to time through that process, then ok. But I'm not gonna be silly and say yeah, she's my "Friend". I really don't know what I'm going to do in terms of speaking with her, it's all still very fresh.

 

A good female friend of mine - she's been with someone for 11 years, they broke up in the middle of that for 2 years, and then got back together, so I trust her judgement - said that what's happening is good. She said she thinks my ex is starting to turn the corner. But she told me that I need to step back and not jump in too early. She told me to keep doing what I'm doing with the rest of my life, keep the talking to my ex to a minimum and don't allow myself to be a comfort blanket. She told me to make boundries too. She reminded me that what got my ex to come to me was when I stood up for myself and was strong and confronted her bull**** in that letter. My friend said I need to stick to what I said and not cave. She said that her and her BF made those mistakes and while they did get back together eventually, she believes that sticking to the advice she's giving now will make the process more efficient than hers was.

 

Of course, as her story proves, it can still happen if it's meant to happen, regardless of how perfect you play it all.

 

So I don't know.

 

But I have decided that I'm going to try to follow her advice - step back, slow it down, shorten our talks, etc.

[GrayClouds]

She told me to make boundries too. She reminded me that what got my ex to come to me was when I stood up for myself and was strong and confronted her bull**** in that letter.

 

She is correct, which is why going 100% NC is needed. When your at 98% it is to easy to let those boundaries slip and become inconsistent. Is 94% contact ok,how about when she is having a really bad day, is 78% ok. A boundary is a line of demarcation and with NC doing most is very close will not give you the benefits of doing all. There is people who are 99% NC but just check the EX's facebook and constantly re-inflicting the pain and going back to zero.

 

As you said standing up for yourself is what has helped, continue doing that.

 

Good Luck

[jlr]

Thanks for the support.

 

My friend doesn't recommend I go completely NC though. She says it's ok to have minimal contact. She thinks I just need to slow it down and not make myself available all the time.

 

And honestly, sometimes no contact can drive people crazy, because you think about things and you imagine what's going on - sometimes minimal contact allows you to see the reality. And sometimes, in this recent case, it's allowed me to see that she's not doing so hot. Sure I've been ****ed up about her, but she's let her whole life fall apart. This sounds awful, but that made me feel better about myself and how far I've come.

 

I'm not advocating that people don't do NC. I think NC was good for me. I think it's a necessary step in recovery. It made me much stronger. I'm just saying there's times where, perhaps, LC can help you to see the truth about the other person - whether it's that they suck or don't, or whatever.

 

I also think it's different for different situations too.

 

However, that being said, though I've been in contact with her recently, I'm still on the fence about staying that way.

[CaliGuy]

Thanks for the support.

 

My friend doesn't recommend I go completely NC though. She says it's ok to have minimal contact. She thinks I just need to slow it down and not make myself available all the time.

 

And honestly, sometimes no contact can drive people crazy, because you think about things and you imagine what's going on - sometimes minimal contact allows you to see the reality. And sometimes, in this recent case, it's allowed me to see that she's not doing so hot. Sure I've been ****ed up about her, but she's let her whole life fall apart. This sounds awful, but that made me feel better about myself and how far I've come.

 

I'm not advocating that people don't do NC. I think NC was good for me. I think it's a necessary step in recovery. It made me much stronger. I'm just saying there's times where, perhaps, LC can help you to see the truth about the other person - whether it's that they suck or don't, or whatever.

 

I also think it's different for different situations too.

 

However, that being said, though I've been in contact with her recently, I'm still on the fence about staying that way.

 

NC doesn’t mean you never talk to them. NC means YOU do not INITIATE contact. If contact is made, it should be initiated by the dumper and not the dumpee. The DUMPER has to be the one who is initiating a second chance.

 

Dumpees who try to initiate contact don't seem to realize that no matter how much THEY want their ex back, they have ZERO control over the dumpers feelings. Dumpers are in the drivers seat for a reconciliation, NOT the dumpee.

 

All this said, if a dumper does initiate contact you need to temper your responses to not be needy/clingy with them. If they are initiating contact it's a good sign, but only if they are earnest about reconciling. If they are fishing for friendship and nothing more then of what benefit is that to you?

 

As long as you are pining over your ex, it's impossible to heal completely and see the dumper for who they are, not your ideal of what you WISH them to be.

[McGrupp]

that is some ****ing good stuff right there^

 

i jacked some of it for my signature. hope u dont mind

Edited October 22, 2009 by McGrupp

[jlr]

So, it's been a while since I updated this.

 

So after the first initial meet up, we've stayed in touch. She's usually the one who initiates it. For the most part it was going ok. But the conversations usually often end up being about us, or the past. Sometimes that's ok, sometimes it's not.

 

She was calling fairly regularly. She went to Vegas for work, and was texting me and calling me, letting me know what she was doing, that she made it safe off the plane, etc. And then, of all days, on my birthday, she didn't bother to contact. I thought that was sorta ****ty. Especially, since she mentioned how it'd be my b-day soon.

 

So I sorta sent a ****ty text a few days later, and then she said she'd been tired from getting back from Vegas (like 5 days before my b-day) and she meant to call me but fell asleep. We then got into a fight, because she said I wasn't being cool for making her feel bad for forgetting my birthday. She said I was trying to lay a guilt trip on her. I was just sorta hurt by it, and was voicing my feelings. She said my text was ****ty, and I still suck at being direct. I told her I thought we were attempting friends, and friends don't usually forget stuff like that. She then made a comment that we both know I want it to be more than that. That urked me. And really, I felt like it all got turned back on me. Just like old times.

 

We ended up meeting for dinner to talk about it. I got upset because she seemed cold and sarcastic most of the time. I started thinking, **** this, it's pointless. Then she apologized for being ****ty, and the conversation suddenly became productive. We worked out the spat. At the end when I was leaving, she almost seemed like she didn't want me to go. Five minutes after leaving, she called me. She got into a conversation about how messed up she is. She's so unpredictable, it's impossible.

 

That was last week. We didn't talk again until this past Friday when she called to check on some family stuff that was going on with me, to see if it was ok. I thought that was nice. On Saturday, she texted me to tell me she was organizing her apartment. She's really bad at doing so, and she asked me if I wanted to help. I had previous plans, so I told her I'd call her when I got out. At like midnight, I call her, and she asks if I want to come over still. I end up going.

 

It was odd, I helped her move some basic stuff. That was weird too, because some of it is our old stuff. After we're done, she makes me cookies, and we talk. Then she says, "Can I ask you something." I'm like, oh no, here we go. I told her I didn't really want to get into something deep. But it ends up going there anyways. So she says her male friends say she shouldn't be "friends" with me, it will give me false hope. I tell her that's not completely untrue, but that my female friends also tell me she wants to be "friends" so I can be her security blanket, to keep me around until **** falls apart. This turns into like a 2 hour conversation. Of course, right in the middle of us being heated about it all, our song - Oasis "Wonderwall" - plays on the internet radio station she has on. We both just stop. We then talk about our past, the song, what it means, etc. We both admit there's a lot of weird signs for us.

 

The conversation basically ends with us agreeing that we don't know what this is. That's friends is terribly tough. That she can't be with anyone now. Blah, blah, blah. It's a lot longer and more complicated, but I've already gone on too long.

 

I leave at like 330am.

 

And I've felt weird ever since. It's been on my mind now again. As you can see from the detailed post.

 

Wtf.

 

I know, I was warned...

[jlr]

Talking to her again is weird. Sometimes I think it helps me to move past it, to see her as the confused mess she is.

 

But then again, my heart kicks in.

 

Now I'm stuck thinking about her and us again. It sucks because I was doing so much better right before she called. Friends told me, when you begin to feel better and move forward - be careful - she'll pop up again. They were so right.

 

The one thing I do notice is that this time I feel angry. When we were hanging out a month after the break up, it was me being sad, trying to convince her to come back to me. This time (a year later) I don't take any ****, I call her out on everything she says. And strangely sometimes when she talks, I realize how awful she is right now and I just get ****ty with her.

 

Of course, I'm still talking to her. So while I may stand up for myself now and I'm barely the one to reach out - I still have to work past the part where I still care enough to respond, pick up, agree to meet, etc.

 

Maybe it's my last hurdle? I hope so.

[sean1970]

I'm of the opinion that if you don't love me enough to stay, you don't get the benefits that came with me -- including my friendship.

Cheers.

 

Have you ever had a friendship with and ex after time had passed?

[Chrome Barracuda]

Your was doing so much better in NC.

 

Your head and your heart doesnt control you. You controls you.

 

Your not getting anything outta being friends, why do it???

 

She wants to be back in your life that's all she wants and your making it easy for her. Dont give her that luxury.

[jlr]

I've only really had two relationships - one sorta long, and one really long.

 

The first one was on again, off again, when I was 18/19 until I was like 21 or so. This girl cheated on me a bunch of times. It was terrible. I broke up with her for good finally.

 

Then my last one, which was for 5 years (22-27). This last one wasn't terrible at all, until she decided to leave. It wasn't perfect no, but it was really important to me.

 

But no, I didn't remain friends with my first one, because I knew she was bad news for me. She was bad news for me the entire time we were together though. I just ignored it. I think I was young and just liked the idea of having a girl.

 

I know that my most recent ex is bad news for me NOW. But I still love her to death, and I guess it's not as easy to let go, because there was no cheating or anything. She's just lost and confused with her life, and it sucks. What we had was really amazing - at one time.

 

I don't know why I keep hoping she'll change. I have to come to terms that she's not the same person I fell in love with right now. And that person may be gone for good.

 

You're all right. Being friends is just going to continue to hurt me. It's always there in my face now.

 

It's just so hard to let go of someone who meant the world to you.

 

Thanks for the support..

[sean1970]

She's just lost and confused with her life, and it sucks.

 

I cant read that line, and most of us have heard some version of it many times from the ex, and not think 'excuse' anymore... Especially after the length of time you both have been apart.