Good opening e-mails?

[hopesndreams]

Plenty of Failure. Too funny.

 

I've been on that site for the last 3 weeks and never, ever ignore anyone's message unless there is something rude in their profile or they seem borderline retarded. Example...I am a simple man, want a simple life, like hockey and my cottage if this interests you get back to me.

 

I'll pass.

[jimbo]

Glad I can amuse you. Just call me Clownbo. I was told, Jim, lose the weight, you'll attract the women. Didn't help. Jim, take fresh pictures. Didn't help. Jim, grow some facial hair, makes you look more of a manly man. Didn't help. Jim, go to social events. Didn't help. Guess I am now going to be told, Jim, sometimes, just sometimes, there are people who are just not able to be datable. So Jim, go along your merry way and take up a hobby or sport. Dating is not all that its cracked up to be anyway. Your missing nothing Jim. Uh, yea. This should be a fun ride.

[hopesndreams]

I thought Plenty of Failure was a take on the Plenty of Fish site. That's what I found amusing, not the fact that women are ignoring your messages and you feel so down on yourself and want to give up. Keep plugging away at it...it only takes 1 to notice you. You say you message 20 women at a time, why do you do that? Do they all interest you?

[justforfun]

Yawn...yawn...yawn! Seriously. Sounds like your looking for a penpal. Comment on something in her profile. Those questions come across as if you haven't bothered to read it. And there is nothing we hate more than men who do not read our profile.

 

 

Tried the travel one

Tried the why you became a enter job here

Tried what type of hobbies you like

Tried what type of restaurants you like

Tried family questions

 

All failed measurably with zero responses. E-mailed 50 or so in the last week.

[justforfun]

I like this one!!

 

 

Thought so too. A recent one was:

 

Hi Amy,

 

I am Jim. Saw you on Match and wanted to say hi. I enjoyed reading your profile. A bit different, but in a good way. Its nice to see someone who goes on her own path and believes in what she is doing. What made you want to start your own company in the medical field?

 

Looking forward to your response,

 

Jim

 

The other thing is that you are assuming that if you write a nice message she will respond. Lots of men on internet dating sites approach women who are way more attractive than them. It's pitiful sometimes. All they see is a woman that wants a nice guy. They are a nice guy so why don't they want him. Because we aren't attracted to him.

 

Just a thought. Are you setting your sites too high?

[jimbo]

I thought Plenty of Failure was a take on the Plenty of Fish site. That's what I found amusing, not the fact that women are ignoring your messages and you feel so down on yourself and want to give up. Keep plugging away at it...it only takes 1 to notice you. You say you message 20 women at a time, why do you do that? Do they all interest you?

 

 

Not down on myself, just facing facts. If you contact 20 or so on Plenty of Failure and a few dozen on Scratch.com and there is zero interest, some just blatantly e-mail back stating that they would rather see what happens with other guys (assuming they are better looking) was the real kicker. Its almost as if they are telling you straight up you are ugly. Again, it is what it is. Can't do anything about my looks.

 

I emailed them over 12 - 14 hours. Not all at once. The ones I found interesting and attractive I e-mailed. The ones who just had a pretty pic I passed.

[jimbo]

I like this one!!

 

 

 

 

The other thing is that you are assuming that if you write a nice message she will respond. Lots of men on internet dating sites approach women who are way more attractive than them. It's pitiful sometimes. All they see is a woman that wants a nice guy. They are a nice guy so why don't they want him. Because we aren't attracted to him.

 

Just a thought. Are you setting your sites too high?

 

Very doubtful. Looking for just average. Anything higher I would not be able to handle.

[D-Lish]

I don't think you have to say much on the initial e-mail. It's really about throwing out the line and see who returns interest- if you get a response after "hi, how are you?" then you can go into more detail.

 

I myself look at:

 

1) age (over 30)

2) religious affiliations (I am looking for non-religious)

3) pic

 

Some people will respond based on pic only, others will look for common interests, etc.

 

I immediately delete suggestive comments, or messages that look pre-scripted for the masses.

 

I think that regardless what you say in the first message- people will read the content of your profile and use that as the basis of whether or not to respond. So, keep it short and simple to start with and save anything meaningful for the second e-mail.

[Scottdmw]

Jim,

 

Don't feel bad about yourself with the online dating thing. I have dated very attractive women in real life and I still have a terrible time with it myself despite great efforts.

 

I don't know what it is, but this is just a very difficult venue for men if you are looking for a woman under 35 who is average attractiveness or better. Maybe those women are very sought after, maybe the ratio is very tilted in their favor, maybe they really aren't that serious about meeting someone, I'm not really sure. But, it is very difficult to get a response. I've been doing this for years on multiple sites and have tried all kinds of different approaches. There are some advice websites out there on the net that have ideas on this, and some books you could read if you want to.

 

If you want a theory colored by frustration, I think that part of the problem is that something like 10% of the men on these sites get 90% of the dates. These are the men that are in the ideal height range from 5’11” to 6’4” or so, good-looking pictures, stable job, well-written profile, no kids, right age, etc. Basically when a woman logs onto the site she gets 20 e-mails from different guys, picks the one guy she likes best which by the way is the same guy that every other woman has picked, and responds only to him because she doesn't want to date multiple people. He meanwhile has no problem with dating 20 different women at once. She goes out with him a couple of times, realizes he's not going to be her boyfriend but doesn’t understand why, and either quits in disgust or repeats the process. She meanwhile does not want to meet a lot of men on the site who she might actually like if she met in real life, because they don't seem like they're the best available. She will complain that men online are liars and jerks. Like I said, it is a very difficult venue and I'm not at all sure that it really works that well given human nature. Relatively few marriages or solid long-term relationships come out of these things, although it does happen every now and then.

 

Definitely don't be boring. Read her profile and try to think of something about it that no one else has said, but that isn't weird. After you read enough of them, you start to notice what parts are really unique. Many women's profiles are very very repetitive, i.e. they all say pretty much the same thing. But there will often be something that is unusual or original, that's a good thing to respond to. Make a comment about it that is witty if you can, or ask a question. Don't ask an obvious question like “what do you like to do”, ask something like “What was your favorite sight in Paris” if you see she went there, or something equally specific. Also mention something about yourself based on what's in her profile. For example if she likes hiking say something about a place you once went hiking. Don’t make your subject line “Hi”, “Hello”, or anything like that, make it original.

 

Even if you do all that I would say that a 5% response rate is pretty typical in the average or greater attractiveness women under 35 range. Don't let it get you down!

 

Scott

[jimbo]

Thanks for the tips guys. I actually opened another account a few hours ago with a friend of my permission and pic. Average looking and since that time, she's received over 15 e-mails. Not sure how a man can compete with the sheer volume. Also thinking the online this is a fad or something. It cannot continue to grow so fast as the men are not getting the interests from the women. And the women complain there are no good quality men around.

Edited October 3, 2009 by jimbo

[justforfun]

Are you surprised? Men pursue women more than women pursue men.

 

You can compete by sending out messages that are more appealing.

 

It's not a fad just because it's not working for you. There are thousands of success stories out there. Men are getting interest from women. I send out lots of messages. It's not that it's not working just because your not getting replies.

 

There you go again with the standard whine. "Women complain they aren't getting quality men". That just indicates to me that you are a bitter person. You have this sense of entitlement. Just because you think you are a 'quality' man then women should be responding to you in droves. Just because you 'put yourself out there' you expect women to 'bite'.

 

Get over it will you. With an attitude like that you don't sound like a 'quality' man to me.

 

Thanks for the tips guys. I actually opened another account a few hours ago with a friend of my permission and pic. Average looking and since that time, she's received over 15 e-mails. Not sure how a man can compete with the sheer volume. Also thinking the online this is a fad or something. It cannot continue to grow so fast as the men are not getting the interests from the women. And the women complain there are no good quality men around.

[justforfun]

 

If you want a theory colored by frustration, I think that part of the problem is that something like 10% of the men on these sites get 90% of the dates. These are the men that are in the ideal height range from 5’11” to 6’4” or so, good-looking pictures, stable job, well-written profile, no kids, right age, etc. Basically when a woman logs onto the site she gets 20 e-mails from different guys, picks the one guy she likes best which by the way is the same guy that every other woman has picked, and responds only to him because she doesn't want to date multiple people. He meanwhile has no problem with dating 20 different women at once. She goes out with him a couple of times, realizes he's not going to be her boyfriend but doesn’t understand why, and either quits in disgust or repeats the process. She meanwhile does not want to meet a lot of men on the site who she might actually like if she met in real life, because they don't seem like they're the best available. She will complain that men online are liars and jerks. Like I said, it is a very difficult venue and I'm not at all sure that it really works that well given human nature. Relatively few marriages or solid long-term relationships come out of these things, although it does happen every now and then.

 

Boohoo, whine, whine, BS.

[Scottdmw]

Boohoo, whine, whine, BS.

 

Can you offer us any useful advice or ideas then? I've spent 100's of hours trying to "write more appealing" messages--it's not that easy. Jim came here for help. Are you here to help or to put people down?

 

Scott

[justforfun]

And look at the conclusion you've come to. What tosh! Absolute nonsense. Try posting that on a dating forum and see what responses you get. You don't have to just rely on my opinion.

 

I have no idea why your not getting responses. Except to say that if you sound on your profile the way you sound here then I'd delete you. Just because your online doesn't mean that you can hide everything about yourself. And as I said you both come across as bitter, sad individuals with BS theories. Really you do. But you don't want to hear it.

 

The other explanation is quite simply that you are just not attractive. Or as attractive as you think. Despite what you say. I would say a good 80 - 90% of men that message me I delete based on pictures alone. I'm not the only person that has this 'problem;. In fact I've read several posts about it on dating forums. So, unless you're the 20 - 30% that's probably your problem.

 

As it is I do have a polite response for when I'm not interested and have many men thank me for it.

 

 

Can you offer us any useful advice or ideas then? I've spent 100's of hours trying to "write more appealing" messages--it's not that easy. Jim came here for help. Are you here to help or to put people down?

 

Scott

[jimbo]

Justforfun, that just shows you that you are as vain as they come by just looking at pictures cause they are not good enough for you. Now who's the one feeling a sense of entitlement? Hmm. Keep turning them down. Your a wisea$$ not to mention a hypocrite by the way too.

[justforfun]

And you're obviously an idiot with a bad attitude.

 

Now are you seriously going to expect me to date a fat, bald old man in his late 50's? Get real, of course I'm going to turn him down based on looks alone. Have you been living in a fantasy world? It certainly sounds like it.

 

People are attracted initially by looks. If I'm not attracted to your looks then what exactly is the point in my starting an exchange? Sheesh.

 

Physical attraction is basic human biology. Try googling all the science behind it.

 

Though you have answered the question for me. You're getting turned down based on your looks. Simple as that. I can tell you that because it's only the ugly ones that get pi$$ed when someone mentions getting turned down based on looks. The beautiful ones? Well we don't get pi$$y because we don't have to care.

 

Ever heard an attractive person complain about the laws of physical attraction. Nope. Not at all. Never. It's always the ones who lose out because of it.

 

Wow! It took this long to get to the bottom of it. LMAO you could have saved yourself all the hassle and just posted your picture.

 

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

 

Thanks for the laugh!

 

Justforfun, that just shows you that you are as vain as they come by just looking at pictures cause they are not good enough for you. Now who's the one feeling a sense of entitlement? Hmm. Keep turning them down. Your a wisea$$ not to mention a hypocrite by the way too.

[jimbo]

Your a regular riot. I can see your personality has gotten you far in life. To each their own in terms of there looks. Am I Brad Pitt, no, but I am not overweight, have all my hair, in my early 30's, and over six feet. Am I ugly, well, maybe to you, and that is fine. You have a right to your own opinion, just like everyone else's, but you do not have the right to berate and be mean to people on the board. Usually, someone who is mean and angry, such as yourself, is covering something else up. You should look into this. Cause, eventually, it will catch up with you in your every day life; not just your online life.

 

Be well.

[carhill]

Usually, someone who is mean and angry, such as yourself, is covering something else up.

Sometimes the really good ones are married. It would pay to read some backstory

 

OP, have you tried some of the suggestions offered, and, if so, any results?

[justforfun]

Your a regular riot.

 

Thanks...that's what everyone says!

 

To each their own in terms of there looks.

 

Isn't that what I said before you got all pi$$y?

 

Am I Brad Pitt, no, but I am not overweight, have all my hair, in my early 30's, and over six feet.

 

Bet you have all your own teeth too. The complete package.

 

Am I ugly, well, maybe to you, and that is fine. You have a right to your own opinion, just like everyone else's

 

Isn't that what I said before you got all pi$$y?

 

but you do not have the right to berate and be mean to people on the board.

 

Just giving it to you like it is.

 

Usually, someone who is mean and angry, such as yourself, is covering something else up. You should look into this. Cause, eventually, it will catch up with you in your every day life; not just your online life.

 

Be well.

 

Is this the point at which I break down and divulge some terrible secret past that has left me bitter and twisted with an ugly soul? Sorry to disappoint you.

 

**off to empty my inbox**

[justforfun]

Sometimes the really good ones are married. It would pay to read some backstory

 

Isn't anonymity just the best?

[pdq]

I'm going to Russia to fetch my girl. They're better looking.

[justforfun]

I'm going to Russia to fetch my girl. They're better looking.

 

And less likely to answer back

[Ariadne]

Tried the travel one

Tried the why you became a enter job here

Tried what type of hobbies you like

Tried what type of restaurants you like

Tried family questions

 

All failed measurably with zero responses. E-mailed 50 or so in the last week.

 

In order for women to reply to you..

 

You have to present yourself as someone that has it together.

 

You have to have money, or be successful in your profession.

 

You have to be handsome or at least somewhat attractive.

 

And you have to be smart.

 

Otherwise women don't care what you say.

[seoa]

So how would an opening e-mail like this sound?

 

Saw your profile today. I see you like to travel. How was that trip to Aruba?

 

This one is too short - looks like you've sent 20 similar emails this evening... Not worth the time it would take to reply, if you haven't invested some time first... My time is valuable...

 

A recent one was:

 

Hi Amy,

I am Jim. Saw you on Match and wanted to say hi. I enjoyed reading your profile. A bit different, but in a good way. Its nice to see someone who goes on her own path and believes in what she is doing. What made you want to start your own company in the medical field?

Looking forward to your response,

Jim

 

OK, this is a little longer than the one above, but it's still a 'template' email - it reads as if you have sent an identical email to 20 women this evening, and just changed the one line in bold...

 

And - you're emailing a girl who's had enough initiative & drive to start her own company... Do you have equivalent attributes to offer... Does your work history show more initiative & drive than she's got...?

 

Actually went on Plenty of Sharks and opened a profile. Spend several hours emailing like 20 or so women.

 

You emailed 20 women in one evening... Yeah, it showed

 

So far, most, over 10 have been read deleted. I have come to notice that it is probably not my e-mails, I am just not attractive enough for them. I am not over weight, but I am not ripped either. Who knows. I've deleted the profile. What's the sense in leaving it up there for no reason. I actually thought this new photo was good.

 

Not looking for pity just making a statement.

 

("read deleted" - do you mean deleted without being read...?)

 

As others have said, this sounds really bitter... I know that you don't want to hear it, but an attitude like that will colour everything you do, and women will sense it... It will show in the profile that you've written, and in the emails that you send, and in the women's profiles that you pick.. It will impact it all - lose the bitterness if you want to succeed in dating...

 

And the photo... In my first round of internet dating, I was determined to ignore photos, since "what can you really tell from a photo"... In the end, I was forced to admit that you can tell a lot...

 

The ones who are wearing so-so outfits are the ones who don't have enough social confidence (or interest in social stuff) to dress trendy (and personally, I want a guy who's comfortable socially)...

 

The ones who look like accountants are usually accountants... Seriously, there's a "look"...!

 

The ones who are showing off shirtless on some beach, usually have "i am too too fabulous" arrogant attitudes...

 

You get the idea - it's not so much about what you look like, as the kind of photo you have chosen to submit (because that DOES say a lot about you)...

 

Have you looked through a load of other MALE profiles, to see what pictures they've put up, and honestly compared yourself to them... (Read the profiles - you want to be looking similar in your photo to people who have similar profiles to yours.)

[Scottdmw]

Despite what you say. I would say a good 80 - 90% of men that message me I delete based on pictures alone. I'm not the only person that has this 'problem;. In fact I've read several posts about it on dating forums. So, unless you're the 20 - 30% that's probably your problem.

 

In order for women to reply to you..

 

You have to present yourself as someone that has it together.

 

You have to have money, or be successful in your profession.

 

You have to be handsome or at least somewhat attractive.

 

And you have to be smart.

 

Otherwise women don't care what you say.

 

 

This one is too short - looks like you've sent 20 similar emails this evening... Not worth the time it would take to reply, if you haven't invested some time first... My time is valuable...

 

And - you're emailing a girl who's had enough initiative & drive to start her own company... Do you have equivalent attributes to offer... Does your work history show more initiative & drive than she's got...?

 

The ones who are wearing so-so outfits are the ones who don't have enough social confidence (or interest in social stuff) to dress trendy (and personally, I want a guy who's comfortable socially)...

 

The ones who look like accountants are usually accountants... Seriously, there's a "look"...!

 

The ones who are showing off shirtless on some beach, usually have "i am too too fabulous" arrogant attitudes...

 

 

 

 

This seems like honest feedback, and is to be appreciated for that. Thank you ladies for taking the time to try to talk about some of this.

 

I do think it points to what I see as the ”problem” with online dating from a normal man's perspective. I feel like as a man I have strengths and weaknesses. When I choose women to e-mail, I'm understanding that they have strengths and weaknesses too. I will e-mail an unattractive woman if she has other good attributes, or a woman with no job if she seems like she has things in common with me. I've emailed women I thought came off as vain or bitter, in case they just weren't good at writing profiles. I don't require that women I e-mail have everything I want, I'm willing to give it a try in person because I never know for sure how I might find someone.

 

I feel like women are not as willing to do this. They want someone who has a good job and is attractive and is smart and is well-dressed and writes them a good e-mail and has social confidence and who is not an accountant and who is not vain and who is not bitter. . . . . it sounds to me from reading things like this like only a small percentage of men would meet such a list. Yet almost every woman has the same kind of list. When a woman meets a man randomly in real life, it seems like she will often just feel attraction for a man then without going through a checklist, because he's not simultaneously competing with 100 other men on a computer screen. But with online dating, if a guy doesn't meet everything she's looking for she won't meet him or talk to him and is not willing to find out how she might feel if they met in person.

 

Maybe the ratio of men to women is such that women can do this online. It just seems to me like I've talked to a lot of guys who rarely or never get any e-mail responses, and I also see a lot of women on the same sites year after year not finding anyone. I read a statistic, not sure if it's true or not, that the dating sites take in $83,000 for every marriage they generate. I do know personally a friend who got married that way so I know it happens. I just feel like it could work better.

 

For the women who do online dating I would like to ask a question, when you are actively online dating how often do you meet a new man in person? Once a month? Twice a month? I feel like if everyone who is actively online dating made it a point to meet a new person face-to-face every week for a quick casual date until they found a mutually committed relationship, the whole thing would work much better, and both men and women would be much more likely to end up in a happy relationship.

 

Scott