tough marriage: demanding wife - house, b-school, unemployment & etc...

October 1, 2009

Hello all,

Long time reader, first time poster. First, I just wanted to say thank you all for making this community such vibrant and supportive place to be. I guess now it's my turn to contribute(?) by sharing a thing or two from my relationship for your thoughts (and hope to seek some advice at the same time).. Here goes nothing.

My wife's a lovely person in many ways, but one thing that's been of my concern all along is how she's so demanding and sets high expectations to others when it comes down to what she wants. As a husband I want to help achieve what she wants, because I love her and I see that her desires are our desires that are to be accomplished together. However, I feel that I'm at a loss lately when we confront life changing initiatives..

I think it's perfectly fine to aim high and strive to our goal, but at the same time I believe that we have to be flexible and be realistic of certain situation when it's called upon. We both agreed that we quickly save as much as possible to find a place that's got good schools & etc while not stretching out too thin. As in such those places still command high premium even in this recession (perhaps the old saying is correct; good towns always drops the last during real estate downturn) which certainly affects our original plan to find a home w/in a year or two, and this makes her very anxious. She's afraid that (righteously so in a way) if we wait until we have enough down payment under the single-income scenario we may be priced out of the desirable area by the time we are ready. I thought I've communicated the situation clearly to her and reasoned what can happen given the worst case scenario and how this may change our desired timeline, but unfortunately it's uneasy for her to accept the situation. When I brought this up she accused me of pulling bait-n-switch, questioned whether I ever had intention of meeting her expectations, asked what I had accomplished for her so far and started comparing me with our mutual friends who are financially better off.

It just hurts me so much to be pushed into the corner like this. As much as I want to make more money as quickly as possible (been laid off during summer and now about to get back into a new job) it's clear that my income potential isn't going to change dramatically anytime soon to change the current situation (which leads to the other topic, going to good b-school to get a better job, getting 700+ score for top school, tuition loan, the whole 9 yards, doh!). Luckily she's been able to find a gig just as when I got laid off, and I'm very grateful for her being able to step up when I was sidelined and this can potentially helps us becoming dual-income household at least for a bit. However, she stresses that she never really had strong desire to work (thats's probably understandable; a lot of girls are like that) and demands me to come up with a concrete plan that meets her requirement since she's running out of her patience and is not sure how much longer she can wait and sacrifice any more due to my "inability" to change the situation.... It's not that I don't recognize her effort and perseverance thru hard time, but if I were her I certainly wouldn't have taken the situation to be wasting time nor sacrificing since being conditional/measurative isn't what the marriage is all about in my book. Anywhoo, I'm just frustrated at myself that I can't seem to change things for the better quickly..

In retrospect, I should have known better. A good friend of mine once told me a story. In one Asian country, a wise groom-to-be chooses the 2nd best choice among potential brides-to-be candidates, because she knows that her position isn't the most desirable (relatively speaking) and by knowing so she's more likely humble, accomodative and respectful to life as well as to her future life-long partner. As corny as this may sound I didn't realize what that story really meant for me until after getting married..

My apologies for mindless babble. I don't think there's any immediate solution to the situation I'm in, but it helps a bit to let it out of what's inside of me. I'm open to any thoughts, comments or criticisms. Thank you all for reading!

-LS

October 1, 2009

Do you have children? If not, why is she giving you so much grief that she has to work?

Hello all,

Long time reader, first time poster. First, I just wanted to say thank you all for making this community such vibrant and supportive place to be. I guess now it's my turn to contribute(?) by sharing a thing or two from my relationship for your thoughts (and hope to seek some advice at the same time).. Here goes nothing.

My wife's a lovely person in many ways, but one thing that's been of my concern all along is how she's so demanding and sets high expectations to others when it comes down to what she wants. As a husband I want to help achieve what she wants, because I love her and I see that her desires are our desires that are to be accomplished together. However, I feel that I'm at a loss lately when we confront life changing initiatives..

I think it's perfectly fine to aim high and strive to our goal, but at the same time I believe that we have to be flexible and be realistic of certain situation when it's called upon. We both agreed that we quickly save as much as possible to find a place that's got good schools & etc while not stretching out too thin. As in such those places still command high premium even in this recession (perhaps the old saying is correct; good towns always drops the last during real estate downturn) which certainly affects our original plan to find a home w/in a year or two, and this makes her very anxious. She's afraid that (righteously so in a way) if we wait until we have enough down payment under the single-income scenario we may be priced out of the desirable area by the time we are ready. I thought I've communicated the situation clearly to her and reasoned what can happen given the worst case scenario and how this may change our desired timeline, but unfortunately it's uneasy for her to accept the situation. When I brought this up she accused me of pulling bait-n-switch, questioned whether I ever had intention of meeting her expectations, asked what I had accomplished for her so far and started comparing me with our mutual friends who are financially better off.

It just hurts me so much to be pushed into the corner like this. As much as I want to make more money as quickly as possible (been laid off during summer and now about to get back into a new job) it's clear that my income potential isn't going to change dramatically anytime soon to change the current situation (which leads to the other topic, going to good b-school to get a better job, getting 700+ score for top school, tuition loan, the whole 9 yards, doh!). Luckily she's been able to find a gig just as when I got laid off, and I'm very grateful for her being able to step up when I was sidelined and this can potentially helps us becoming dual-income household at least for a bit. However, she stresses that she never really had strong desire to work (thats's probably understandable; a lot of girls are like that) and demands me to come up with a concrete plan that meets her requirement since she's running out of her patience and is not sure how much longer she can wait and sacrifice any more due to my "inability" to change the situation.... It's not that I don't recognize her effort and perseverance thru hard time, but if I were her I certainly wouldn't have taken the situation to be wasting time nor sacrificing since being conditional/measurative isn't what the marriage is all about in my book. Anywhoo, I'm just frustrated at myself that I can't seem to change things for the better quickly..

In retrospect, I should have known better. A good friend of mine once told me a story. In one Asian country, a wise groom-to-be chooses the 2nd best choice among potential brides-to-be candidates, because she knows that her position isn't the most desirable (relatively speaking) and by knowing so she's more likely humble, accomodative and respectful to life as well as to her future life-long partner. As corny as this may sound I didn't realize what that story really meant for me until after getting married..

My apologies for mindless babble. I don't think there's any immediate solution to the situation I'm in, but it helps a bit to let it out of what's inside of me. I'm open to any thoughts, comments or criticisms. Thank you all for reading!

-LS

October 1, 2009

Can you sit down with her again and make a new more reasonable plan? It seems as though you are doing the best you can.

October 1, 2009

yes, apart from divorcing you and finding a man rich enough to give her what she wants, she is living in fantasy land... you earn what you earn and you can't change that. Her expectations are too high and she needs a reality check. It's clearly unfair on you. I agree with hopeful... you should have a frank conversation about it ant take it from there. And if she really wants all that stuff badly, just tell to keep her job... actually, tell her to get a better job!

October 1, 2009

I agree with giotto. She can't get blood from a stone. You are obviously giving it all you have. IMO, that's all anyone can really ever ask for.

My fear for you is that you will give her everything she is asking for and then she will want even more. She'll never be happy because it doesn't sound like she's a grateful person to begin with. I think you should be firm with her like giotto described and let her know that you are doing the best you can and that she is just going to have to be patient (which means having a good attitude while you wait).

October 1, 2009

However, she stresses that she never really had strong desire to work (thats's probably understandable; a lot of girls are like that) and demands me to come up with a concrete plan that meets her requirement since she's running out of her patience and is not sure how much longer she can wait and sacrifice any more due to my "inability" to change the situation.... It's not that I don't recognize her effort and perseverance thru hard time, but if I were her I certainly wouldn't have taken the situation to be wasting time nor sacrificing since being conditional/measurative isn't what the marriage is all about in my book. Anywhoo, I'm just frustrated at myself that I can't seem to change things for the better quickly..

Tell her to stop whining, get off her ass, and pull her weight. What are you, her frigging meal ticket? Sure sucks that she "never had a strong desire to work" -- yeah, that's rough all right. Reality bites sometimes. Nothing's free in this world, and if she really wants something, she should help work for it.

October 1, 2009

Thanks everyone for your thoughts/comments. I agree with you that I have to be a bit more firm on holding the ground and be more pursuasive, but as you have figured out she isn't exactly the kind of person who can easily be pleased and even if I fulfill what she's asking right now I am afraid that I'm not necessarily getting close to addressing what's underneath.. One time, I asked her, "Honey, I'm somewhat worried that even when I'm going to achieve what we set out to do in the near future I wonder if you'll be happier than where we are night now." Her reply was (paraphrased), "well, why don't you first make it happen then ask me that question later since you haven't done any." Fair answer? Maybe from her point of view, but the tone is there...

Just to add few things to shed some light to the situation.. We don't have kids yet but have certainly thought about making it happen in a next few years, so housing is definitely on our top priority. But so many uncertainties in the real estate and job situation right now only make me more cautious and prudent about making sound decisions which isn't helping meeting her vision.

The more I think about it I think some of these can be explained by the ways we were brought up and exposed to different environment. She's from a rather well-off family who provided her with pretty much whatever she wanted, and her close friends are all married to seemingly "made" men, either with nicer career or with more that money in the family. She probably can't help but compare our situation with theirs and frustrated by it (and I can understand that)... In contrast, I grew up in a low working-class family -- We didn't have enough but my folks saved and worked hard to provide better opportunities for me, and I was always humbled with what I have, however so little it might be.,..

-LS

October 1, 2009

Divorce her now, before the claws get in any deeper. Being married to a woman with an entitlement attitude is a recipe for mental and emotional prison, complete with waterboarding

Do it now, trust me...

October 1, 2009

She's from a rather well-off family who provided her with pretty much whatever she wanted, and her close friends are all married to seemingly "made" men, either with nicer career or with more that money in the family. She probably can't help but compare our situation with theirs and frustrated by it (and I can understand that)

This explains alot; she's spoiled and has fairly unrealistic expectations. I feel for you, I imagine that this is terribly hurtful and even emasculating.

It seems to me that if your marriage is to work, she needs to realize that marriage is a partnership. That if she has specific goals in mind then she needs to do her part to meet those goals. She doesn't appear to be doing squat in that arena.

Don't let her tear you down. You need to calmly and firmly give her a reality check.

October 1, 2009

Divorce her now, before the claws get in any deeper. Being married to a woman with an entitlement attitude is a recipe for mental and emotional prison, complete with waterboarding

Do it now, trust me...

Islove, I tried not to go there, but I can't disagree with this assessment. I think you have to keep this as an option.

October 1, 2009

OP, how old are you and your W?

October 1, 2009

The smartest person on the board has spoken. He mentioned waterboarding - which is sadly apt. You are going to get more and more squeezed, emotionally, mentally and financially.

I am was afraid for you when I read your answer. You have a spouse who is very resentful/frustrated that you aren't automagically providing her with the lifestyle she is entitled to. She is taking her resentment out on you. Despite having no children to care for she does not want to be inconvenienced by a job.

I only have one question for you. Do you really see a future scenario where she is satisfied/happy with you and you are overall happy and feel that she is treating you well? Because I don't.

You made a mistake, acknowledging it pre-children is a very positive thing to do. Very positive. There are many, many women who will not treat you like a biological-ATM.

I will pray that you reach emotional escape velocity from this neutron star of despair you have married.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts/comments. I agree with you that I have to be a bit more firm on holding the ground and be more pursuasive, but as you have figured out she isn't exactly the kind of person who can easily be pleased and even if I fulfill what she's asking right now I am afraid that I'm not necessarily getting close to addressing what's underneath.. One time, I asked her, "Honey, I'm somewhat worried that even when I'm going to achieve what we set out to do in the near future I wonder if you'll be happier than where we are night now." Her reply was (paraphrased), "well, why don't you first make it happen then ask me that question later since you haven't done any." Fair answer? Maybe from her point of view, but the tone is there...

Just to add few things to shed some light to the situation.. We don't have kids yet but have certainly thought about making it happen in a next few years, so housing is definitely on our top priority. But so many uncertainties in the real estate and job situation right now only make me more cautious and prudent about making sound decisions which isn't helping meeting her vision.

The more I think about it I think some of these can be explained by the ways we were brought up and exposed to different environment. She's from a rather well-off family who provided her with pretty much whatever she wanted, and her close friends are all married to seemingly "made" men, either with nicer career or with more that money in the family. She probably can't help but compare our situation with theirs and frustrated by it (and I can understand that)... In contrast, I grew up in a low working-class family -- We didn't have enough but my folks saved and worked hard to provide better opportunities for me, and I was always humbled with what I have, however so little it might be.,..

-LS

October 2, 2009

Thanks again for all for your feedback. I think she's also hurt in that the situation we are currently in is certainly less desirable and perhaps even downright degrading/shameful from her point of view, and I come to understand that and want to do everything possibly can to mitigate that (that's what the life-long partner is for, right? or am I just being too naive?). But what I dread the most is what would happen if I come short of meeting the goal? Not only I'd be disappointed at myself but also she'd be even more resentful that I wonder if she'll have further capacity to cope with the situation.

Would I be able to make a desirable scenario happen in which both of us can be happy? It'd be difficult on my end both physically and mentally to win prizes for her but I want to believe that there's a way to do so for the sake of our relationship -- I wouldn't necessarily be happier than where I'm now, but I know I'll find a comfort in seeing her happiness. But, really, I can only hope that things get better over time (hopefully sooner) and she goes along with the flow of life and find happiness within it.

(btw, in case if you are curious, we are in our early 30s, approaching 3rd year anniversary)

-LS

October 2, 2009

I see the waterboarding is well underway. Sorry. Get some MC and you'll see what I mean.

October 2, 2009

One time, I asked her, "Honey, I'm somewhat worried that even when I'm going to achieve what we set out to do in the near future I wonder if you'll be happier than where we are night now." Her reply was (paraphrased), "well, why don't you first make it happen then ask me that question later since you haven't done any." Fair answer? Maybe from her point of view, but the tone is there...

Jesus... if I were still married and my wife said that to me, I'd be freaked out. Seriously.

Read between the lines. Or actually, don't -- the meaning is bloody clear as stated. She's basically telling you that it's up to you to work your ass off for her, in the hope that Her Highness with deign fit to come down from her throne, pat you on the head, and tell you you're a good little subject. Of course, there's an even chance she'll still be unhappy.

Nothing I've read in your posts has painted, to me anyway, a particularly positive picture of her. She sounds like a spoiled, lazy brat with an overblown sense of entitlement. And if you don't succeed in giving her what she requires, I bet you anything she'll divorce you or cheat on you, while blaming you for something like "not being enough of a man".

Sorry to be blunt, dude, but I call them like I see them. If you stay in this marriage, are you going to be able to retain your dignity and self-respect?

October 2, 2009

I'll marry you Islove! I've never had a strong desire to work either

Seriously, speaking as a (relatively self-aware) demanding and spoiled girl - you have to put your foot down. You might be bending over backwards to try to please her highness for the rest of your life.

If your wife is unhappy with her current monetary situation, tell her (in a nice way) that she should pick up some overtime and get off your back!

It's absolutely awesome that you're trying so hard to understand her feelings and her point of view (seriously, I'll marry you), but it has to go both ways - at least a little! I think you need to figure out some major "wow" that will open her eyes and let her see that she's breaking your heart. Some actual action to wake her up, because it sounds like just talking to her hasn't been working.

Best wishes!

October 2, 2009

Thanks everyone for your thoughts/comments. I agree with you that I have to be a bit more firm on holding the ground and be more pursuasive, but as you have figured out she isn't exactly the kind of person who can easily be pleased and even if I fulfill what she's asking right now I am afraid that I'm not necessarily getting close to addressing what's underneath.. One time, I asked her, "Honey, I'm somewhat worried that even when I'm going to achieve what we set out to do in the near future I wonder if you'll be happier than where we are night now." Her reply was (paraphrased), "well, why don't you first make it happen then ask me that question later since you haven't done any." Fair answer? Maybe from her point of view, but the tone is there...

-LS

Let me tell you something. This is not a good situation. There have been times in my marriage when I didn't feel like I had everything I deserved, but at those times my husband truly wasn't trying to provide them for me. I would have given anything just to see him try to get them, even if he failed.

And even then when he wasn't trying, I would NEVER say anything remotely like how your wife answered you. The reason is, it's not a husbands job to make his wife happy. It's a husbands job to love his wife and that should make her happy. It sounds to me like you love your wife. If she can't see that because love for her is based on things, then she will never be truly happy. Someone will always have a bigger house, fancier car, and more exotic vacations. She should be grateful and appreciate all that you are doing even if it isn't everything that she expected or wants. It's not fair to you and I can imagine it's very discouraging.

You need to tell her, "Look, this is all I've got. I'm doing the very best I can but my best doesn't seem good enough for you. Where do we go from here?" Take the pressure off of yourself and put the ball in her court. She knew you weren't Bill Gates when she married you.

October 2, 2009

The ultimate litmus test for whether your partner thinks they are treating you fairly - is how they react when you suggest MC.

If they fight it tooth and nail, odds are they know they are treating you in a way they know is not fair. Often the spouse says we can't afford it. But what is your marriage worth.

You need an MC for a lot of reasons. But the first is to get you to realize that you are being beaten into the submissive role of servant in your marriage. Re-read your posts - it is all about the near impossible task of making your partner happy. A partner who you have clearly admitted takes little/no responsibility for her own happiness. As long as you continue to see yourself as her servant instead of an equal partner - you are lost.

During conflict in a healthy marriage, either person should always be able to invoke a variant of the golden rule. Either - would you really be ok if I was doing this to you, or when I did this to you in the past you didn't like it, why are you doing it to me?

Do you actually ever have any conversations like that? Because if you do, it is hard to grasp her telling you she doesn't want to work - sans kids. As partners why can't you respond in kind?

Thanks again for all for your feedback. I think she's also hurt in that the situation we are currently in is certainly less desirable and perhaps even downright degrading/shameful from her point of view, and I come to understand that and want to do everything possibly can to mitigate that (that's what the life-long partner is for, right? or am I just being too naive?). But what I dread the most is what would happen if I come short of meeting the goal? Not only I'd be disappointed at myself but also she'd be even more resentful that I wonder if she'll have further capacity to cope with the situation.

Would I be able to make a desirable scenario happen in which both of us can be happy? It'd be difficult on my end both physically and mentally to win prizes for her but I want to believe that there's a way to do so for the sake of our relationship -- I wouldn't necessarily be happier than where I'm now, but I know I'll find a comfort in seeing her happiness. But, really, I can only hope that things get better over time (hopefully sooner) and she goes along with the flow of life and find happiness within it.

(btw, in case if you are curious, we are in our early 30s, approaching 3rd year anniversary)

-LS

October 4, 2009

I think she's also hurt in that the situation we are currently in is certainly less desirable and perhaps even downright degrading/shameful from her point of view

I have watched from afar as my grown son has gone through the same thing, even quitting a job in a field he loved and gone back to school to get a graduate degree in a major more in line with his wife's (and her family's) lofty expectations. The irony is that, as the economy has derailed his and many others plans, he is still being judged like you based on what he hasn't accomplished. When all is said and done, all the material things like house, cars, furniture, etc., is just stuff - what you're left with is each other and the bond between you. I don't see things working out for him and I would be equally fearful for you...

Mr. Lucky

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tough marriage: demanding wife - house, b-school, unemployment & etc...

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