Taramere Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 OMG, girl! If you keep this up I might think about switching sides............ Okay, so looking through the thread it seems that it's you, me, Gorilla Theater and Grogster...up a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G. Tree-hugging, feministing, professionalising, lesbianising Other Womaning would probably be enough to get the two of us name checked in a new and revised edition of the Malleus Maleficarum. But just to make sure, we'd probably need to get a couple of 19 year old boys in the tree. We need to make sure the cougar boxes get ticked too.
Author always_searching Posted October 1, 2009 Author Posted October 1, 2009 Generally, I don't mind off-topicness, if it's helpful to the discussion, but some of you are making totally unnecessary and hurtful remarks i.e. Alphamale's "Intellectual women are skanks" post and others claiming that intellectual woman are "insecure," etc. The point is not to bash women or men, regardless of intellect. The point of the thread is to see whether men find intellectual women to be romantically attractive. We could spend hours on the psychology as to why a person conceives of him/herself as intellectual, what is meant by intellectual, etc. I think most everyone should have some concept as to what I am talking about when I use the term "intelligent." If it's a troublesome term for you, replace it with being "book-smart" in any given field of study. I'm also assuming that we are honest with ourselves and know whether or not we fall into this category. So, all the talk about "everyone thinks they're smarter than they are," etc. really shouldn't be an issue in this thread. I'm not making any claims about myself--any comments I have made about myself have been in reference to what other people have told me. It would be the height of egoism to claim that I'm an intellectual--the only intelligence I can claim is learned ignorance, for I really only know that which I don't know. I like discussing intelligent things, because I endeavor to be so. Now, through faith: well, that's a different story. So, please do keep extremely negative comments to yourself and just answer the questions at hand. I didn't ask this to start a debate about misogynistic men or misandropic (some claim even: misanthropic) women. I asked to know what MEN think of intellectual women. Of course, if you honestly think, as alphamale does, that intellectual women are "skanks," then please state it in a manner that is appropriate and less hurtful. We don't need any trashing of individuals because of their IQ. Also, if you have a problem with the question I've raised, please don't make tongue-in-cheek comments about "women who ask these questions" and just address me. Thank you.
alphamale Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 Generally, I don't mind off-topicness, if it's helpful to the discussion, but some of you are making totally unnecessary and hurtful remarks i.e. Alphamale's "Intellectual women are skanks" ... ...Of course, if you honestly think, as alphamale does, that intellectual women are "skanks," then please state it in a manner that is appropriate and less hurtful. We don't need any trashing of individuals because of their IQ.... sorry to hurt your feelings a_s; what i meant to say was that in general the smarter and more intellectual a female is the less good-looking she is. of course there are exceptions but in general it holds true.
grogster Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 Okay, so looking through the thread it seems that it's you, me, Gorilla Theater and Grogster...up a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G. Tree-hugging, feministing, professionalising, lesbianising Other Womaning would probably be enough to get the two of us name checked in a new and revised edition of the Malleus Maleficarum. But just to make sure, we'd probably need to get a couple of 19 year old boys in the tree. We need to make sure the cougar boxes get ticked too. And to think that a couple of hot 19 year old boys of inferior intellect would interest you, Taramere. The shame, the shame. I'm climbing down from that tree (of knowledge?)!
Author always_searching Posted October 1, 2009 Author Posted October 1, 2009 sorry to hurt your feelings a_s; what i meant to say was that in general the smarter and more intellectual a female is the less good-looking she is. of course there are exceptions but in general it holds true. LOL, oh, it wasn't hurtful to me: you've never seen me, so you can't really make the judgment. Besides, I thought you meant most intelligent women are "women of ill-repute." The latter interpretation is what upset me; though, your intended meaning isn't doing much for the issue of stereotyping.
thegreatmoose Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 sorry to hurt your feelings a_s; what i meant to say was that in general the smarter and more intellectual a female is the less good-looking she is. of course there are exceptions but in general it holds true. This is not what I've observed. There are many smart and beautiful women in my area.
Taramere Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 Okay - well, on a serious note. I don't think men generally mind whether a woman's IQ tops theirs. How does a person calculate whether another person's IQ is ten points above or below theirs anyway? Unless they sit down and get tested together under monitored conditions? In a social context, what people are generally looking for is conversation they find entertaining. I enjoyed Bill Bryson's book "A Brief History of Everything." I'm pretty terrible when it comes to hard science, but he wrote it in language which is geared towards the layperson, but doesn't have a condescending tone. He didn't just talk about science either. He got good and gossipy about some of the feuding and rivalry that goes on in the scientific community. I had no idea it could all be so cut throat and bitter in those labs. He relayed a lot of what would normally be pretty tedious (to me, at least) material in a cheerful, human kind of style - really bringing life to what are generally pretty dry subjects. You can imagine someone like that being able to talk happily to just about anyone they encounter. Sparking up discussions that lots of people (not just boffins) can participate in and enjoy. I think a strong intellect only serves a person badly, socially, if they have little interest in anything other than the small field they have expert knowledge in - and aren't, therefore, able to relate to anybody who isn't in that field.
Author always_searching Posted October 1, 2009 Author Posted October 1, 2009 I think a strong intellect only serves a person badly, socially, if they have little interest in anything other than the small field they have expert knowledge in - and aren't, therefore, able to relate to anybody who isn't in that field. I'll have to look into the book you suggest--it sound entertaining! As far as this bit of your post is concerned: I agree. I think being a well-rounded conversationalist is important. Still, it seems that many guys don't want women who are anything but "entertainers." In other words, they want women who are good for a laugh or two, who can easily converse about everyday topics, but as soon as the woman displays any sort of knowledge--not even knowledge, necessarily, just well articulated thought--in any field (regardless of if it is expert knowledge in a specific field, or not): the man gets insecure and becomes uninterested in her. I find that many men want to be the "interesting" ones in the relationship, and as soon as a woman displays that she may have something of equal or higher interest to say, the man loses interest. Do you find otherwise? Also, I should note that I, personally, like a man to be--at least, what I consider to be--more interesting than me. So, this thread isn't really relating to me, except insofar as men my age usually aren't interested in dating intellectual women. I'm only placing myself in this category, not because of what I think, but because of what others--who have no reason to lie to me--have told me. LOL, of course, younger men not being interested serves me well, because I have a tendency to naturally prefer older men!
looking4 green grass Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 I'm climbing up on my self esteem box now! lol I'm smart AND I'm pretty. So there! I probably won't make it onto America's Next Top Model, but I'm sure not tragic. I too wonder where I can find the research on IQ scores and relationships. But honestly, how many people have had true IQ testing done by a qualified professional in their life to even know what their score is. I had it done as a child and found the scores years later as an adult. I still agree with the original OP, in that many men find women who are more intelligent to be a turn off, and I don't think this has anything to do with an insecurity or "chip" on my own shoulder. My roommate is a lawyer (past the photocopy stage) and she has run into the same thing.
Author always_searching Posted October 1, 2009 Author Posted October 1, 2009 I'm climbing up on my self esteem box now! lol I'm smart AND I'm pretty. So there! I probably won't make it onto America's Next Top Model, but I'm sure not tragic. I too wonder where I can find the research on IQ scores and relationships. But honestly, how many people have had true IQ testing done by a qualified professional in their life to even know what their score is. I had it done as a child and found the scores years later as an adult. I still agree with the original OP, in that many men find women who are more intelligent to be a turn off, and I don't think this has anything to do with an insecurity or "chip" on my own shoulder. My roommate is a lawyer (past the photocopy stage) and she has run into the same thing. Preach it, girl! Yeah, I'm in total agreement. The only chip I have is not understanding why so many men seem to have an aversion to intellectual women. LOL, but I'm certainly not bitter about it. As far as looks: I too am not tragic looking. I have been told that I'm attractive. Whether it's true I suppose depends on who I would ask. I'm not really superficial, so...I couldn't say.
Taramere Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 I'll have to look into the book you suggest--it sound entertaining! It was great, and I'd definitely recommend it. I never realised paleontologists could be such bastards to eachother. His description of the treatment meted out by Sir Richard Owen to poor old Gideon Mantell is the bit that really stuck in my memory. This poor guy not only had his professional credibility continually attacked by Owen, but after a series of personal tragedies which ended with him (Mantell) comitting suicide (after being crippled by a horse and carriage running over him), Owen had a piece of his mangled spine removed, pickled and put on display. Then wrote an obituary for Mantell, in which he vented the last traces of his envious spite against him. I find that many men want to be the "interesting" ones in the relationship, and as soon as a woman displays that she may have something of equal or higher interest to say, the man loses interest. Do you find otherwise? I've experienced it, definitely. I can remember being at a professional function, and one of the lechier older lawyers demanded I be seated next to him. I actually found him pretty entertaining - definitely the raconteur type who had lots of great stories. The only problem was that I found myself in that uncomfortable position of having to keep finding new and creative ways of removing his hand from my knee without making an uncomfortable scene. Anyway, something he said triggered me into telling the table an anecdote of my own. Most of the people there laughed. He laughed too, but he looked slightly put out in that "you're here to laugh and look pretty - not to try to beat me at the raconteur game." There was, however, a very positive side effect in that he didn't grope me at all after that.
Rudderless Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 sorry to hurt your feelings a_s; what i meant to say was that in general the smarter and more intellectual a female is the less good-looking she is. of course there are exceptions but in general it holds true. Wrong. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/student/news/article685083.ece
Trialbyfire Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 I think a strong intellect only serves a person badly, socially, if they have little interest in anything other than the small field they have expert knowledge in - and aren't, therefore, able to relate to anybody who isn't in that field.I agree with this. The more diverse your interests, the more you have to talk about with others. Having said that, I honestly dislike talking about specific details about the industry I'm in, unless that person has indepth knowledge of it. This has to do with my personal impatience and also, the way many people look at the industry, in the current "gotcha" fashion.
Taramere Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 I agree with this. The more diverse your interests, the more you have to talk about with others. Having said that, I honestly dislike talking about specific details about the industry I'm in, unless that person has indepth knowledge of it. This has to do with my personal impatience and also, the way many people look at the industry, in the current "gotcha" fashion. Yes - I think technical aspects are usually best avoided in social discussions, unless people are really keen to know about something that can be explained fairly briefly. Unusual characters or bizarrely funny situations you encounter through work are usually better fodder for social situations.
deux ex machina Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 ... I too wonder where I can find the research on IQ scores and relationships. ... always_searching, I don't know off the top of my head any research that was done regarding IQ and relationships - but what I do recall are studies that looked into the relationship between length and success of marriages and educational level. Turns out that marriages in which both people have higher, and similar, levels of education last longer, and are happier. They are less likely to divorce as well. I'm assuming there's some correlation with IQ here. Must be. Hope this helps and doesn't take the thread off-track.
mr.dream merchant Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 Yes. There's nothing more hot than an intelligent woman who's smoking and talks with elegance and makes me feel like I can learn a thing or two from her just by conversation. Unfortunately, alot of women my age are MTV, VH1, BET, and Power 96 heads who only knows what's hot or "in". And frequent clubbers/barhoppers. Not my type at all.
Pyro Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 Men, my questions for you are: (1) what are your thoughts on intellectual women, (2) is there a limit to how intellectual a woman can be and still be considered romantically attractive, and, finally, (3) what is your current age and social position? I ask the latter, because I find that older men are more open to being with intellectual women than younger men are; but, I'm also in college, so maybe my demographic is altering the outcome. 1. Quite the turn on. I don't deal with "bimbos". As long as she is not all brains and takes the time to have fun and as long as she doesn't think her intelligence makes her better than everyone else. 2. Again that depends on if she is going to be stuck up about it or never takes the time to cut loose. 3. I'm 28 and a soon to be graduate school student. Not sure what that has to do with anything.
Jersey Shortie Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 i actually prefer smart educated women as long as they're not smarter than me. Alpha, I would think that makes you a little insecure with yourself and your own intelligence.
stillafool Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 LOL, just to clarify: I am not interested in my guy friends (too young for me--I date OLDER men), and I am certainly not a "Tom Boy." I am, however, a misandrist to some degree, because most (particularly, young) men I know just don't like smart women regardless of looks. Period. I find this information to be disheartening to say the least. So do I. I would think it would be the other way around. It seems men are regressing instead or progressing. Wonder why?
Woggle Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 Men are not regressing. Smart and successful women have no problem with their love lives but a nasty attitude will repell a man very quickly. It is much easier to say that men are not attracted to strong or intelligent women than it is for a woman to really look at herself and find out why she is unlucky in love.
clv0116 Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 As long as she's smart enough I don't care about anything more. It's not a plus or minus. I'm in my early 40s in a successful and relatively lucrative career, and I'm not a socialite.
Author always_searching Posted October 2, 2009 Author Posted October 2, 2009 I'm 28 and a soon to be graduate school student. Not sure what that has to do with anything. I ask because the answers to my original questions oftentimes depend upon a person's social status. For example, I find that most lower-class males who don't have much education, regardless of age, tend to be more uninterested in intellectual women than upper-class males who do have an education. Also, older men don't seem to have as much of an issue with the insecurity that can come about by dating an intelligent woman than younger men do. Education plays an imperative role in a number of things: usually, for example, educated women tend to be more open about sexuality, talking about subjects which may be taboo, etc. So, the fact that you like educated women and that you are going into graduate school says something: it tells me that you are an educated guy and that you like educated women. This also goes into the area of social psychology: people usually want to stick to members of their own social class i.e. upper-class people want to date other upper-class people, college educated people want to pair-off with other college educated people,etc. Of course, there are exceptions to this, but this is generally the rule. So, as far as educated couples are concerned, I find it's pretty on par. However, I don't usually see people of equal intellect dating. Generally, one of the partners--and it's typically the female or the "femme" if it's not a heterosexual relationship--is of less intellect than the other. Now, I'm just wondering why that is, and hypothesize that one explanation could be that most men usually prefer to be the all around "caregiver"--including, it would seem, the "intellectual" caregiver. However, I find the more educated one is, the less these typical constraints apply.
alphamale Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 Alpha, I would think that makes you a little insecure with yourself and your own intelligence. oh really? how so?
westernxer Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 Alpha, I would think that makes you a little insecure with yourself and your own intelligence. I think it makes him an Alpha Male. LOL
clv0116 Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 Education plays an imperative role in a number of things: Maybe I'm uneducated but I don't know what this is meant to mean. The example doesn't seem to match.
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