Author tft Posted September 28, 2009 Author Posted September 28, 2009 One other thought. I'd find this all much more understandable is he had just moved out recently. After all this time he still wasn't sure about his choice, and unsure enough that he had to cheat on you and have sex with her? What happens another 2 years from now if he still wonder what could have been? I couldn't stand having an axe like that over my head. I'm not sure that it was him being unsure, and needing to choose. He said it was spur of the minute, all emotional, unplanned, and he hated himself afterwards. His actions (apart from this) indicating him moving forward, integrating me with friends and family, getting a bigger place, telling our boss. Planning weekends, gigs, holidays. doing them and enjoying it. That axe scares me. A lot. This is the problem.
tami-chan Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 19 months.....well..he DID finally separate-that's a milestone, isn't it? lets give credit where credit is due. So the man is taking longer..... saying goodbye to a marriage, trying to heal from the breakdown takes time, it can be painful...and we all know there is no definite time line to heal from pain, is there? OP, all I can say is, the journey is going to be bumpy and long---- post-separation or divorce individuals go through a gamut of emotions , not all of them are going to feel good for you....are you ready for the ride? If not, bail out now...why waste any more time?
Author tft Posted September 28, 2009 Author Posted September 28, 2009 19 months.....well..he DID finally separate-that's a milestone, isn't it? lets give credit where credit is due. So the man is taking longer..... saying goodbye to a marriage, trying to heal from the breakdown takes time, it can be painful...and we all know there is no definite time line to heal from pain, is there? OP, all I can say is, the journey is going to be bumpy and long---- post-separation or divorce individuals go through a gamut of emotions , not all of them are going to feel good for you....are you ready for the ride? If not, bail out now...why waste any more time? Hi Tami. Yes he did separate, as promised. He did grieve. I feel like I am back inthe A dynamic though, do I wait it out much longer? What will I forgive him? Is my maintaining the status quo sowing him he can do what he likes and I will always be there? Do I leave him, so he can feel the consequences, if so is that manipulation? He is sorry. And he does love me. He realises he is lucky to have had 2 women in hs life that love and cherish him as much as we do/did. He certainly doens't want to lose me.
MistyK Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 Hi Tami. Yes he did separate, as promised. He did grieve. I feel like I am back inthe A dynamic though, do I wait it out much longer? What will I forgive him? Is my maintaining the status quo sowing him he can do what he likes and I will always be there? Do I leave him, so he can feel the consequences, if so is that manipulation? He is sorry. And he does love me. He realises he is lucky to have had 2 women in hs life that love and cherish him as much as we do/did. He certainly doens't want to lose me. I believe this. But, the problem is, does he want to lose his wife? For good? Again, he is welcome to grieve and heal however he sees fit, even if that means having sex with her a billion more times - BUT that will not make it ok for him to drag you through it and cheat on you to achieve his end goal. Grief pertains to loss. He's lost the place he used to live, money, some respect, the life he previously planned on having. It is a tremendous loss. But has he lost his wife yet? If she's still willing to sleep with him, she's still in the game too. Here's my issue with this. I hate drama. When my H and I sepersated I either wasn't at the house when he moved stuff, or he brought a family member. I wouldn't have put myself in a position of being alone with him because it would have been that much more painful of an experience. And perhaps it would have upped the likelyhood of guilt-sex that I'd later regret. Point is - as with affairs - why did he put himself in that position a year and half after separating. I don't get it.
sadintexas Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 Divorce, regardless of whether or not there is an existing exit affair - is always emotional. Its no surprise they had sex. Disappointing and hurtful to you yes, but not something that should not be expected under the stressful circumstances. This is also what came to my mind. D is a very emotional time. It's part of the territory when you become involved with someone before they are single and ready to commit again. I think that's why so many people recommend backing away and giving at least six months post D before getting involved with the person again. It certainly gives you something to think about. I wouldn't take this as an indiciation that his IC hasn't helped him. But, it appears there are more issues than this that have you concerned.
tami-chan Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 Hi Tami. Yes he did separate, as promised. He did grieve. I feel like I am back inthe A dynamic though, do I wait it out much longer? If you want to....but it looks like you do not want to...so set a time line for yourself. What will I forgive him? You don't have to and if that's the case...you can just move on without him. If you do, you still do not have to tolerate his shenanigans...you are not his wife....unless of course you can live with it and live with it happily? Is my maintaining the status quo sowing him he can do what he likes and I will always be there? Do I leave him, so he can feel the consequences, if so is that manipulation? Why play games? you stay because you are willing to work through the issues. You leave because you are not willing to go through the same cr@p day in and day out...you leave because you can...you do not leave because you want him to realize what he is losing...no, you leave because you want to be free! He certainly doens't want to lose me. You seem like a good woman to him...so why would he want to lose you...question is, do you want to keep a man like him?
fooled once Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 I agree with Misty. And as someone who has been divorced, at no point after the initial "I want a divorce" did the thought ever come to me to sleep with him again. And I just asked my H if he and his ex ever slept together after the initial divorce discussion and he said no. He cheated on you -- with his wife. He cheated on you. And the fact that you now have to review his texts shows you can't trust him. People who trust each other don't have to be privy to all communications the other is having. I don't ever look at my H's emails or texts. Those are his and just because we are married doesn't mean he isn't entitled to privacy. It would be one thing if he had sex with her and you weren't in the picture. But he did. And it was just a month ago. And he wasn't going to tell you. MAJOR red flags, IMHO.
whichwayisup Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 I got access to his text history (before he could delete anything) and according to that it was a one time thing. You obviously don't trust him to begin with, otherwise you wouldn't have checked his text history... Something in your gut told you to.. All the more reason to distance yourself and really take time before you move ahead with him. He has behaviours and habits which has not changed while he was married, and he's continued them with you. You know he is capable of cheating (he cheated on his wife, the woman he said vows to) and now you know he's still a cheater. He is still in lying, deceiving and betraying mode.. Where's the honesty? I don't see much.
NoIDidn't Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 Ouch, is right. Most of the divorcing people that I know have slept with each other during and after the process. In fact, one particular guy - who was separated from his W for seven LONG years, was still sleeping with her five years into it until SHE cut HIM off. He had many a girlfriend, and one main girlfriend (that was none-the-wiser) while all this was going on. Thing is, neither he or his W wanted to get back together. In their minds, they were still legally married so anyone that didn't like that they were still having sex were to just 'get over it'. Now, he and that main girlfriend are in Couples Therapy - and she has a foot and a half out the door (she told me herself, the years of lies, his anger problem that just won't go away or he won't deal with it properly, his hobbies that take up a lot of his time leaving her with his kids while he's gone, you name it....). I'm not sure I would continue in a relationship with him at this time. Maybe in a year or so, if I were still interested. But not right now. My point is, I don't see him changing his ways until he feels he might lose you for good. But the question is, will that be too late? My GF is thinking that its too late (most couples start therapy too late for it to help anyway).
frannie Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 So, the Anger. It was with himself. He does indeed have anger management issues, which have been addressed in IC. He isn't angry with me for knowing. He was shouting, saying "why do i always eff things up, whats wrong with me, I'm not this person, I hate myself etc" He meant it. Primal screaming. So much so that I was worried he was going to do something stupid. I was more concerned with his well being than I was with my own (albeit at that point numb) feelings at his cheating. Hello. I don't know much about your story, but I would be asking him what he thought he'd done which was wrong. Was it the having sex with her, or the keeping things from you? He obviously wasn't going to tell you about it, and I think that that is far more worrying than the fact he had sex with someone he's getting divorced from. Not to make excuses, but people go through so many emotions during that time that I would almost expect it to happen in some cases, and I don't think it's necessarily indicative of anything other than confusion and grief or whatever. I think it's more worrying that he's still maybe in affair mentality when you have sex with more than one person and that's maybe 'OK' in some way. It's the problem you get with being involved with someone who's still involved with someone else, and that's not restricted to former OW either. Anyone dating a separated or even newly-divorced person could be in the same place. I would be wanting to find out whether this was a one-off thing as a part of the letting-go process, or whether it was part of his mindset that this was in some way OK as an ongoing way of behaving. And I think you need to talk to him and find out what's going through his mind in order to determine that. Of course he could just lie about it all, and you will have no assurance whatever that it won't happen again. And that's not restricted to former OW either. I would say the most important thing to achieve is to get him to talk about his feelings with you, rather than bottling them up and getting to the point where you're having to read his text messages to find out what's going on with him. At some point you have to start trusting him, and he has to start acting in a trustworthy, open, manner with you, and putting you first.
Author tft Posted October 1, 2009 Author Posted October 1, 2009 Frannie, I remember following your story on here when I first joined LS 2 years ago. Thanks for your response. I hope everything is okay with you. I have spoken, at length, with him. He didn't confess as he knew I would be upset, and it was a stupid mistake etc etc. The only plus of it was tht it demonstrated to them both that there was nothing there anymore. He's sorry for doing it. And he's sorry he kept it from me. And I know he loves me. But I don't know that I can stay with him, I can't promise him I can get over it. I've sllipped into a mild depression, don;t want to see my friends, lost a bit of weight etc. Its all I can think about and I'm crying constantly. He got really upset when I told him he spoiled things. That I'm not sure I'll ever love him the same. I knew he capable of lying, but it still surprised me. Stupid me. Wait and see I suppose.
Devil Inside Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 Frannie, I remember following your story on here when I first joined LS 2 years ago. Thanks for your response. I hope everything is okay with you. I have spoken, at length, with him. He didn't confess as he knew I would be upset, and it was a stupid mistake etc etc. The only plus of it was tht it demonstrated to them both that there was nothing there anymore. He's sorry for doing it. And he's sorry he kept it from me. And I know he loves me. But I don't know that I can stay with him, I can't promise him I can get over it. I've sllipped into a mild depression, don;t want to see my friends, lost a bit of weight etc. Its all I can think about and I'm crying constantly. He got really upset when I told him he spoiled things. That I'm not sure I'll ever love him the same. I knew he capable of lying, but it still surprised me. Stupid me. Wait and see I suppose. Hang in there. Just be sure to be honest with yourself during this process. In time you will have a clearer picture of where your emotions lie with this situation. I'm sorry your hurt. If you feel depressed make sure to be proactive to feel better. Go see those friends...even if you don't want to. Some time away from the situation will be good for you. Keep posting and letting us know hoe you're doing.
DramaQueen Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 Ouch, is right. Most of the divorcing people that I know have slept with each other during and after the process. NID-you are so right! TFT-Let me tell you about my MM. I was about to leave my non-existent marriage for my MM. However, lately when I asked my MM if he would stay faithful to me and not have sex with his soon-to-be exW after our divorce from our respective spouses, he couldnt look me in the eye to tell me "yes". After much arguments, he came up with a reason saying "if she asks for it, i will oblige her because she has needs too and i would feel sorry for her for what i did to her but I will try my best to resist her"!!! Can you believe that?? I just want to kick his ass and tell him it's over. The point is men are just so SELFISH!! They are cake eaters and so weak where sex is concerned. He seems to think that it is perfectly legitimate and alright to continue to have sex with his W even if they are no longer together, I dont buy all that crap at all and I am now re-assessing my situation to leave him for good. Did he think about how i would feel if i found out? I can't bear to be in his W's situation in future having to deal with all this. His revelation made me open up my eyes. Since then, things have never been the same and i dont trust him anymore. I am glad i asked that question. I hope your man is sincere and he wont ever do that again but frankly speaking, i have my doubts. After discovering it yourself, if i were you, i would constantly worry whenever he's not with me and not be able to fully trust him again. I sincerely wish you the best.
howcouldInotknow Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 As someone who has dated a separated man I say this is not something that you necessarily want to be apart of. My MM didn't sleep with his wife until after we split, but IMHO if he had sex with her there is still emotion and unresolved issues here. In most cases when things get bad enough to warrant a divorce sex is usually not at the top of the list of things a a divorcing couple wants. I say take a couple of steps back and re evaluate your situation and what you want
Angel1111 Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 This may be a strange answer but I can kind of understand how that happened. Marriage is a very tangled web and a lot of the time when it's ending, the sex intensifies. I have a guy friend who calls it 'goodbye sex'. I think it happens because all their other issues have been pushed by the wayside. I'm not saying that what he did was right, I'm just saying that I do understand how it happened. The whole divorce thing is highly emotional and that's why it's tough getting involved with someone during this process. Despite that, I think if I were you, I'd have to take a break from him for awhile. This is a big thing to forgive and he knows it - that's why he got defensive about it, and why he's pretending that it was no big deal. Maybe you don't need to leave him for good, but you do need to send a strong message that you're not going to tolerate this kind of behavior. You also need to address this anger issue. If this is his method of discussing things with you, it's is a big problem, too.
Angel1111 Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 I have spoken, at length, with him. He didn't confess as he knew I would be upset, and it was a stupid mistake etc etc. The only plus of it was tht it demonstrated to them both that there was nothing there anymore. He's sorry for doing it. And he's sorry he kept it from me. And I know he loves me. But I don't know that I can stay with him, I can't promise him I can get over it. I've sllipped into a mild depression, don;t want to see my friends, lost a bit of weight etc. Its all I can think about and I'm crying constantly. He got really upset when I told him he spoiled things. That I'm not sure I'll ever love him the same. I knew he capable of lying, but it still surprised me. Stupid me. Wait and see I suppose. First of all, you're not stupid. Just because he cheated on his wife, doesn't make him evil nor does it make him a habitual liar. There are plenty of MM who marry the OW and they never cheat on her. Their marriage was their marriage, along with all their problems, which were probably extensive. As I said in my above post, I can kind of see how it happened, and I do see what he's saying about being convinced that it is really over. But he was in a relationship with you and should've not gone there out of respect for you. But just because he cheated with you doesn't mean you should've anticipated that he'd do this. Unless he was a serial cheater with his wife, that's just a ridiculous assumption. However, you cannot ignore your feelings about this and try to pretend you can get over it. And he needs to know that you take it seriously. And the worst part is, if you don't honor your feelings, then he'll never respect you again. You need to do something to get away from him for awhile. If you're afraid he'll cheat on you while you're gone, or that he'll get angry, then you've got a different kind of problem.
frannie Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 Hello Personally, I think your relationship with him could do with a lot more openness and honesty on both parts, along with the acceptance of the other's failings and feelings. I mean, he needs to tell you even if he's done something he knows is wrong, and know that it's safe to do so. And you need to be able to tell him you feel the way you do without him getting angry because everything is 'spoilt'. You're both going through a difficult stage with this, one I haven't been in so I can't give first hand experience but maybe others can. All I can see is that it requires a lot of honesty and the ability to look at what's going on without feeling defensive or the need to hide. And that takes a lot of courage on both parts. Also, if you're noticing you're feeling depressed you do need to try to step back from it. And I know that's not easy, because I find it next to impossible myself (tips welcome!). Perhaps rather than 'wait and see', I would suggest more pro-actively biting the bullet and going out with friends, planning a project which has nothing to do with him, etc. Best of luck anyway and thanks for your good wishes.
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