Ouchie

[tft]

Hello All. I've been debating about posting this, I suppose I've finally decided to. Before I do, I'd like to point out I know cheating MM lie and cheat (by definition), and I know I probably got what was coming to me by being the OW. I know this.

 

My separated (19month) married man finally sold his house, and has moved the last of his things out. Its been emotionally draining for him, and I've been there as much as I can. I'm uncomforatable with him seeing his ex whilst sorting the last of his things but figure I have nothing to worry about because things were great between us (he was on a rollercoaster of emotions through this, calmed down very much over the last 6 months). I found out last friday that he slept with her on one occasion, around a month ago.He has anger problems and when I found out he FLIPPED out, I was really concerned for him. He said they were very emotional at the time, and that it proved that all the love had gone and there was nothing between them. He regrets it and said he didn't enjoy it (ha!) He has seen her since and nothing has happened (kind of confirmed as much as I've seen his text messages). We have been getting on perfectly, virtually live together, I've met his family (with whom he is very close to) on numerous occasions (and they know he loves me and are happy for him). I know he loves me. He is sorry and has been reassuring but whenever I think of him doing it OUCHIE. It really hurts. So far we are maintaining the status quo, but I'm not sure I can get over this. He has played it down, and it almost feels like he thinks it was entitled to do it (as he "has slept with her millions of times in the past") Sometimes when I read post concerning NPD on here I think it fits. I'm not sure if I had a question, but feedback is appreciated. I'm too embarrased to tell my friends, it was difficult enough for them to accept him back into my life after he d1cked me around last summer.

 

Thanks for listening, many thanks as ever.

[jwi71]

He has ALREADY cheated on you at least once.

He d!cked you around last summer (whatever that is...cant be good).

 

So, you are pursuing your MM (now separated) and he is treating YOU how he treated his xW. And you are surprised by this how?

 

I know its a bit blunt...but its who he is. You KNOW what he is capable of. So either continue with this "man" with your eyes wide open or bail. Your choice.

 

Personally...I'd run.

[Thaddeus]

You know that old saying: If they'll do it with you, they'll do it to you.

 

OW often fall into this fantasy-land trap, believing, "This is different" or "He's different" or "Our relationship is not like that" and similar nonsense.

 

It's bullshat. Always has been. Point is, if he screwed around on his wife, he's likely to screw around on you too. You're not different. He's not different. Your relationship is not different. It's the same pattern, over and over and over again.

 

You made a conscious choice to get involved with someone who was/is married. This fallout shouldn't be even remotely surprising. Time to take responsibility for your life.

[Devil Inside]

You said that you're not sure you can get over this. So what is making you stay at this point?

[tft]

For all the replies. As I stated in my first papragraph, I am aware he has lied and cheated in the past. And I am aware of my role in this. My past threads indicate what I' ve gone thorugh (and how I was d1cked around!) to get here.

 

DI, you ask why I'm still here? I've got a lot of deadlines at the moment. With them, I can't really deal with calling it all off right now. And, he has gone through a lot of introspection (including IC) during the last 19months and I think that maybe, people can change. And aren't always defined by their past (I certainly will never get involved in a EMR again, and I would advise anyone who is to get out, that even if they do leave thats where the real work begins) Is it possible it was, like he believes, a mistake?? A stupid mistake? It is the only time he has done it (I've had granted access to his texts over the last 12 months)

 

I feel pretty numb at the moment. I don;t know I can forgive him or live with it. And I love him to bits. OUCHIE.

 

Thanks again for taking the time to read, and reply.

[MistyK]

Ugh. One of the big problems with MM, even when they claim to be celibate towards their wife, generally are not going to see screwing their wife as cheating on the OW. They may have committed to the OW, but yet, divorce or no divorce, there is enough history there that they seem to think it's ok and you ought to just deal with it because you came upon him while married. If I read you correctly, he has been seperated almost two years. For him to sleep with his wife now is cheating, plain and simple. And I'm willing to bet that this was not the only time. You'll never be able to trust that he won't sleep with her or go back to her now. IF 2 years isn't long enough to conclude that they shouldn't be together, how will you be confident he won't go back to her in 5 years? How will you ever have security? Not worth it. Run - run FAST.

[MistyK]

And, he has gone through a lot of introspection (including IC) during the last 19months and I think that maybe, people can change.

 

People can, but HE hasn't. What kind of leaps and bounds could he have made over a year and a half if he just cheated on you a month ago? Sounds like nothing changed.

[boldjack]

OP You have said that he has gone through IC in the past 19 months, but slept with his ex 1 month ago, so apparently IC isn't working for him. IMO, you are getting what you gave, so you shouldn't cry foul, if he returns the favor. You need to put an end to this destructive relationship, dump him, and move on, with the lesson learned.

[Devil Inside]

DI, you ask why I'm still here? I've got a lot of deadlines at the moment. With them, I can't really deal with calling it all off right now. And, he has gone through a lot of introspection (including IC) during the last 19months and I think that maybe, people can change. And aren't always defined by their past (I certainly will never get involved in a EMR again, and I would advise anyone who is to get out, that even if they do leave thats where the real work begins) Is it possible it was, like he believes, a mistake?? A stupid mistake? It is the only time he has done it (I've had granted access to his texts over the last 12 months)

 

So sounds like there are two reasons for not calling it quits now...one is about now not being a time that you feel like you can deal with the pain involved in splitting...and the other being that you think that this may be an isolated incident and that he has put in the work to be a changed man. So basically you're conflicted.

 

So if you did not have these deadlines where would you be? Would you be at a place where you want to call it quits? If so, you know that life moves at a hectic pace...just be sure that you are not putting it off forever...because as time goes by you will be more entrenched in this relationship, and less inclined to call it off..even if you want to.

 

If you really believe he is a changed man, well that's a different story. However, from what you right I do not get a good feeling that you trust him. I do not think that you do. How could you? No matter what, when you meet someone through an affair it is always in the back of your head that you met while he was cheating on his wife. Either way, I think that you do not believe him that it was a one time thing. Even if it was, is that ok with you?

 

I believe that people can change. If I didn't then I couldn't do what iIdo for living. However, has he changed enough for you? Be sure to ask yourself these tough questions. I wonder if a part of you may feel some obligation to this man...seeing as that he left his marriage. If so...stop...you owe it to yourself to be happy.

 

Sorry for your pain.

[whichwayisup]

He slept with her because she is familiar. Maybe it was a final goodbye between them, who knows..

 

Give it time.. Give him time and don't rush into this. People need time and space to sort themselves out. Emotionally he's stressed and has had alot to deal with - Back off and focus on you and your own life - Give him space and allow him to grieve the loss of his marriage, the life he is letting go of that he once had with his wife. To expect him to end his marriage and pop into a full on relationship with you is unfair, to both of you. Plus, you want to get out of the affair dynamtic, another reason to have some space, slow it down and start dating, get to know eachother under different circumstances.

[2sure]

Divorce, regardless of whether or not there is an existing exit affair - is always emotional. Its no surprise they had sex. Disappointing and hurtful to you yes, but not something that should not be expected under the stressful circumstances.

 

That being said, its up to you whether you think it is forgivable and if you can. You might ask yourself the following questions while coming to terms with your decision:

 

Had he cheated before you?

 

Why was he ANGRY at you when you found out?

 

If his sense of entitlement justified him having sex with his wife, under what other circumstances might this same sense of entitlement be used to override you?

[Devil Inside]

Divorce, regardless of whether or not there is an existing exit affair - is always emotional. Its no surprise they had sex. Disappointing and hurtful to you yes, but not something that should not be expected under the stressful circumstances.

 

That being said, its up to you whether you think it is forgivable and if you can. You might ask yourself the following questions while coming to terms with your decision:

 

Had he cheated before you?

 

Why was he ANGRY at you when you found out?

If his sense of entitlement justified him having sex with his wife, under what other circumstances might this same sense of entitlement be used to override you?

 

As usual 2Sure is as sharp as a tack. This stood out to me too.

[whichwayisup]

I found out last friday that he slept with her on one occasion, around a month ago.He has anger problems and when I found out he FLIPPED out,

 

Can I ask how you found out?

 

Also, if he has anger problems, this is something that won't go away unless he gets help, counselling and/or anger management.

[boldjack]

TFT, you have (3) big red flags staring you in the face. 1) he has cheated WITH and ON, both of you. 2) He blames you, for uncovering his cheating. 3)He refuses to understand his culpability. Any 1) of these should send you running for the exit.

[Lucky_One]

Yes, why did HE flip out when you found out?

 

As for sex with a "departing spouse". I had sex in my attic of all places, while going through boxes dividing up holiday decorations. It was emotional, it was sad, we both wanted to be held, we both felt very nostalgic at the moment. It was highly personal, it was not "sexual sex" (if that makes any sense), and IF I had been dating someone at the moment, I would have said that the encounter was none of his business, and that it was a necessary part of our letting go and of our healing and of a sort of fitting resolution to our marriage and our history.

 

Not logical from a third party standpoint, but it made perfect sense to me and my XH at the time.

 

So - I'd try hard to let it go.

[tft]

Divorce, regardless of whether or not there is an existing exit affair - is always emotional. Its no surprise they had sex. Disappointing and hurtful to you yes, but not something that should not be expected under the stressful circumstances.

 

That being said, its up to you whether you think it is forgivable and if you can. You might ask yourself the following questions while coming to terms with your decision:

 

Had he cheated before you?

 

Why was he ANGRY at you when you found out?

 

If his sense of entitlement justified him having sex with his wife, under what other circumstances might this same sense of entitlement be used to override you?

 

Wow. Thank you all for your contributions. Just in from work, feeling a mess and its great to have an outlet for it all. Thanks guys.

 

So, the Anger. It was with himself. He does indeed have anger management issues, which have been addressed in IC. He isn't angry with me for knowing. He was shouting, saying "why do i always eff things up, whats wrong with me, I'm not this person, I hate myself etc" He meant it. Primal screaming. So much so that I was worried he was going to do something stupid. I was more concerned with his well being than I was with my own (albeit at that point numb) feelings at his cheating. Yes Mistk K, I agree. It is cheating. I have followd your story on here, and I see much of my on in it.

 

Will address other posters now...

[tft]

So sounds like there are two reasons for not calling it quits now...one is about now not being a time that you feel like you can deal with the pain involved in splitting...and the other being that you think that this may be an isolated incident and that he has put in the work to be a changed man. So basically you're conflicted.

 

So if you did not have these deadlines where would you be? Would you be at a place where you want to call it quits? If so, you know that life moves at a hectic pace...just be sure that you are not putting it off forever...because as time goes by you will be more entrenched in this relationship, and less inclined to call it off..even if you want to.

 

If you really believe he is a changed man, well that's a different story. However, from what you right I do not get a good feeling that you trust him. I do not think that you do. How could you? No matter what, when you meet someone through an affair it is always in the back of your head that you met while he was cheating on his wife. Either way, I think that you do not believe him that it was a one time thing. Even if it was, is that ok with you?

 

I believe that people can change. If I didn't then I couldn't do what iIdo for living. However, has he changed enough for you? Be sure to ask yourself these tough questions. I wonder if a part of you may feel some obligation to this man...seeing as that he left his marriage. If so...stop...you owe it to yourself to be happy.

 

Sorry for your pain.

 

thank you DI.

 

Deadlines are this week, applications for a major thing that will make my career. So it really is a bad time. They are over in a week, so I will contemplate then. I can't have the time off to work through it now.

 

I certainly don't feel obliged to be with him, I feeling strongly about that. My life, my choices. And although I used to think he was my soulmate (cliched I know, all overtly romantic cliches' are dead and buried now) I love him dearly and completely.

 

Trust is certainly diminished now, and I'm not sure I can trust him again. Herein lies the problem.

[tft]

Yes, why did HE flip out when you found out?

 

As for sex with a "departing spouse". I had sex in my attic of all places, while going through boxes dividing up holiday decorations. It was emotional, it was sad, we both wanted to be held, we both felt very nostalgic at the moment. It was highly personal, it was not "sexual sex" (if that makes any sense), and IF I had been dating someone at the moment, I would have said that the encounter was none of his business, and that it was a necessary part of our letting go and of our healing and of a sort of fitting resolution to our marriage and our history.

 

Not logical from a third party standpoint, but it made perfect sense to me and my XH at the time.

 

So - I'd try hard to let it go.

 

This is exactly as he described it. Even so far as it MADE him realise it was all over. There was nothing left.

 

Someone asked how I found out-it was through a text he had sent her. He didn't know HOW i knew, I told him I knew everything, and he admitted it was a one time. I got access to his text history (before he could delete anything) and according to that it was a one time thing. I suppose he didn;t think it was my business, hence why he hadn't told me. However, due to the A circumstances I believe i did deserve to know, and I'm glad of it.

[tft]

He slept with her because she is familiar. Maybe it was a final goodbye between them, who knows..

 

Give it time.. Give him time and don't rush into this. People need time and space to sort themselves out. Emotionally he's stressed and has had alot to deal with - Back off and focus on you and your own life - Give him space and allow him to grieve the loss of his marriage, the life he is letting go of that he once had with his wife. To expect him to end his marriage and pop into a full on relationship with you is unfair, to both of you. Plus, you want to get out of the affair dynamtic, another reason to have some space, slow it down and start dating, get to know eachother under different circumstances.

 

WWIP, thank you for the advice. We have been taking it slow, we dont live together and we have separate outside interests. The grieving process has been hard, over the last 19 months, but the house thing was the last big obstacle.

[tft]

TFT, you have (3) big red flags staring you in the face. 1) he has cheated WITH and ON, both of you. 2) He blames you, for uncovering his cheating. 3)He refuses to understand his culpability. Any 1) of these should send you running for the exit.

 

I didn't really explain in my OP clearly, but 2 and 3 are misrepresented. However, number 1 is a biggie (no pun intended!)

[jwi71]

 

So, the Anger. It was with himself. He does indeed have anger management issues, which have been addressed in IC. He isn't angry with me for knowing. He was shouting, saying "why do i always eff things up, whats wrong with me, I'm not this person, I hate myself etc" He meant it. Primal screaming. So much so that I was worried he was going to do something stupid. I was more concerned with his well being than I was with my own (albeit at that point numb) feelings at his cheating.

 

tft...Im not sure his IC has done him one bit of good.

 

19 months...yet he still d!cks you around. And cheats. And has anger issues. That's BETTER?

 

What behaviors...and I mean just that...behaviors...have changed as a result of IC?

[MistyK]

The thing is, it isn't always like that. As I divorced, I can hoestly say thatI never felt sexual desire for my H. (In fairness, I had little to no sexual interest in him before the separation.) Nevertheless, I would not have allowed anything to happen as I would have felt it to be cheating on MM, even though he and I weren't even having sex yet. My body follows my heart, and it can't be in two places at once. But, MM apparently can compartmenatlize better than me I suspect.

 

Anyway, the point is that he may have needed that last hurrah. All well and good - but he knew as he did it that it was cheating and would hurt you. And he did it anyway, much like he did with the affair. If he really needed or wanted that kind of closure, he should have let you go until he got it and then come looking for you. No - he chose the selfish route AGAIN (the A being the 1st selfish choice). He still puts himself first and consequences be damned. How will you ever be able to trust him with her or feel secure? It's the kind of thing that would plant a concern that he'd leave and go back to her a few years from now. Now you are the BW and she's the OW. Not a reversal of fortune I'd enjoy much.

 

Take care.

[MistyK]

One other thought. I'd find this all much more understandable is he had just moved out recently. After all this time he still wasn't sure about his choice, and unsure enough that he had to cheat on you and have sex with her? What happens another 2 years from now if he still wonder what could have been? I couldn't stand having an axe like that over my head.

[tft]

tft...Im not sure his IC has done him one bit of good.

 

19 months...yet he still d!cks you around. And cheats. And has anger issues. That's BETTER?

 

What behaviors...and I mean just that...behaviors...have changed as a result of IC?

 

JW, to be honest, if I look at it outside - no good whatsoever. He says it helped him sort his feeling out. And his anger problem rears its angry head less often. But it is still there. He has been out around 6 months (we get a shortish course provided with work) but it has corssed my mind he needs to go back. I will suggest it.

 

I know it sounds awful. And, it is. I know it is. 19 effing months. Then this. ouchie. it stings.

[tft]

The thing is, it isn't always like that. As I divorced, I can hoestly say thatI never felt sexual desire for my H. (In fairness, I had little to no sexual interest in him before the separation.) Nevertheless, I would not have allowed anything to happen as I would have felt it to be cheating on MM, even though he and I weren't even having sex yet. My body follows my heart, and it can't be in two places at once. But, MM apparently can compartmenatlize better than me I suspect.

 

Anyway, the point is that he may have needed that last hurrah. All well and good - but he knew as he did it that it was cheating and would hurt you. And he did it anyway, much like he did with the affair. If he really needed or wanted that kind of closure, he should have let you go until he got it and then come looking for you. No - he chose the selfish route AGAIN (the A being the 1st selfish choice). He still puts himself first and consequences be damned. How will you ever be able to trust him with her or feel secure? It's the kind of thing that would plant a concern that he'd leave and go back to her a few years from now. Now you are the BW and she's the OW. Not a reversal of fortune I'd enjoy much.

 

Take care.

 

Thats why I have such a problem. Cos I can never, ever see myself in a position where I would cheat on him. I'm completely bonkers, head over heels in love with him. And wouldn't belittle that by cheating. Its counter intuitive to me. I'm trying to empathize but I can't relate to the why of it all. Argh.