Author writergal Posted September 28, 2009 Author Posted September 28, 2009 New Again: True. Everyone is telling me to calm down, chill out, don't make assumptions because I don't have all the information. I agree there completely. BUT, I still am used to being treated a certain way, regardless of the # of dates I go out with a guy on. I can certainly learn to relax more and chill out. But that's it. If I don't like the way I feel I"m being treated, I will say something about it. And I don't think that's "causing drama." I am not a passive person. And I am not going to change my mind about thinking how rude it was of him to wait until late at night to call me the first day of his vacation, or the way he blew off my IM and let my phone call go to voicemail. If you like someone, you want to hear from him. For whatever reason, he chose not to call me back after I left him a voicemail. I think that's rude. StarGazer: True. I am assuming he is a jerk because I don't have all the information. BUT, the information I do have, is not looking good in his favor at all. We got intimate, he slept in my bed, so now I have expectations of how I want to be treated...and I go by the assumption that if someone says they like you, they would *want* to hear from you when they are away. I feel like he blew me off. And I don't know him well enough to know the reasons why, so that context of his actions remains to be seen. And I don't want to do anything rash, trust me. TRUST ME. Right words. Right actions. Right thinking. 3 parts of the Buddhist Eight-fold Noble Path. If I come to LS and freak out a little via posting, that's just part of my way of processing along with my real life conversations with friends, so that I get a better perspective on the situation, before I make a decision to act.
prettybaby Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 I didn't read the whole thread, but you've only been dating this guy for about 4 weeks or so, and you're already tripping out about something so silly. If it were me, and this was a guy I had only been dating for a few weeks, I'd back off while he's on vacation with his family. You're not his spouse. You're his date. You need to act accordingly until things progress. He probably doesn't feel comfortable taking your calls there, because he's around his family and you guys haven't been seeing each other long enough for him to feel comfortable talking to you like a real gf in front of his folks. A lot of adults don't tell their parents about their dates until those dates actually turn into a potential long term relationship and they feel ready to slowly introduce you. I would really just back off for now. Again, you're not his long term girlfriend yet; you're just a date. If I had been going on FOUR dates with some guy and he started IMing me and calling me while he KNOWS I'm stuck there with my parents, I would not appreciate such a clingy behavior.
Author writergal Posted September 28, 2009 Author Posted September 28, 2009 I couldn't edit my most recent post...so here is what I had added: How should I change my behavior? By calming down, not making assumptions, and acting casual when he calls me to get together again (that is, IF he calls me, because as you said, his actions are telling me something, I just don't know what the real context behind those actions is yet). And I agree there completely: I need to change my actions, otherwise I'll continue to be frustrated by his behavior. I just don't know what I'm supposed to do. Not speak up for myself with him, even at 5 dates (if the 5th happens). He and I need to find out where we're both at with this attraction between us. Getting that information from him, and me telling him what I want, will clear the air of everything.
loveslife Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 Loveslife: There's a lot I like about him. You've called him a jerk and rude several times. Can you please tell me a few things you like about him. I just don't see why you want to be involved with someone you think behaves so poorly.
Author writergal Posted September 28, 2009 Author Posted September 28, 2009 He probably doesn't feel comfortable taking your calls there, because he's around his family and you guys haven't been seeing each other long enough for him to feel comfortable talking to you like a real gf in front of his folks. If you did read more of the thread, you'd see that he claims in his IM to me, that he was showing his DAD my online dating profile. So, if that is true, then he doesn't feel uncomfortable around his family about me. He's showing them my dating profile!! So his not taking my call when I did call, IS weird behavior. His words conflict his actions. So, how do I know he was telling me the truth. I don't know. And that's what really bothers me in this all. It's not drama. Its me coming here to LS and venting about not knowing the whole context, asking for poster's opinions and feedback, so that I can get a better perspective. Doesn't mean I'm completely wrong in my insights though. So please, cut me some slack too.
deux ex machina Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 ...Getting that information from him, and me telling him what I want, will clear the air of everything. Noooooo, writergal! Nooooo. We wrote about this before, remember? Learn. To. Tolerate. Ambiguity.
New Again Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 New Again: True. Everyone is telling me to calm down, chill out, don't make assumptions because I don't have all the information. I agree there completely. BUT, I still am used to being treated a certain way, regardless of the # of dates I go out with a guy on. I can certainly learn to relax more and chill out. But that's it. If I don't like the way I feel I"m being treated, I will say something about it. And I don't think that's "causing drama." I am not a passive person. And I am not going to change my mind about thinking how rude it was of him to wait until late at night to call me the first day of his vacation, or the way he blew off my IM and let my phone call go to voicemail. If you like someone, you want to hear from him. For whatever reason, he chose not to call me back after I left him a voicemail. I think that's rude. That's all fine and great, and good for you for knowing what you want and how to stand up for yourself. However. He's not treating you the way you want, and you think he's rude - so why do you keep contacting him? You're not getting what you want, so why do you keep after him the way you have been? Perfect example: he has a history of not contacting you/initiating contact. You IM him. He doesn't respond to you. So you call him. And (surprise!) he didn't answer. You can call it rude or whatever else, but what did you expect? See what I mean about neither of you changing your behavior...yet you are still pissed when he doesn't change?? From your last post about this guy: You said that you wanted him to contact you. You told him very specifically that you wanted him to text you from the road/that he got in, and that you also wanted him to call you while he was on vacation with his family. OK, you were assertive and stated what you wanted and expected from him. BUT THEN HE DIDN'T DO IT. AND YOU THINK IT'S RUDE AND SHOWS LACK OF INTEREST. So it makes no sense to keep contacting him. Why would you do that? If you tell him what you need/want/expect, and he doesn't do it, don't keep incessantly contacting him - back off! SHOW him that if he's going to blow you off that way after what you already told him that you're not going to put up with it!
Author writergal Posted September 28, 2009 Author Posted September 28, 2009 You've called him a jerk and rude several times. Can you please tell me a few things you like about him. I just don't see why you want to be involved with someone you think behaves so poorly. I think his behavior of ignoring me is rude. And I won't apologize for thinking that way. Plus, I don't need to expound on the things I like about him. That's not the point of my thread. The point of my thread is, trying to determine what I need to do, so that I don't over-react if/when he does call me.
prettybaby Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 I personally think that bringing up that kind of topic on a fifth date is slightly ridiculous, and will basically result in relationship suicide. Guys don't want headaches, and they don't want a woman who brings them headaches. They want a partner they can have fun with, love, trust, forget about work stress when they're in their company. They don't want somebody tripping about the future on a fifth date.
loveslife Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 So it makes no sense to keep contacting him. YES! Thank you, New Again. This is what I have been trying to get at with Writergal. It makes NO sense that she calls this guy a jerk and rude and yet keeps contacting him. In order to have a healthy relationship with yourself and with others you need to have a healthy sense of boundaries. With yourself and with others.
prettybaby Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 If you did read more of the thread, you'd see that he claims in his IM to me, that he was showing his DAD my online dating profile. So, if that is true, then he doesn't feel uncomfortable around his family about me. He's showing them my dating profile!! So his not taking my call when I did call, IS weird behavior. His words conflict his actions. So, how do I know he was telling me the truth. I don't know. And that's what really bothers me in this all. It's not drama. Its me coming here to LS and venting about not knowing the whole context, asking for poster's opinions and feedback, so that I can get a better perspective. Doesn't mean I'm completely wrong in my insights though. So please, cut me some slack too. Uhm yeah, the reason he was showing your profile is probably because his dad was asking who it was after your IM popped onto the screen and that you phoned him a few minutes later. He was probably like "oh, it's just this girl I'm seeing, here's her profile". After which he probably added that he'd call you back later and that it was no big deal, so that he could avoid a personal phone call in front of his folks. You know how parents are. They ask all kinds of questions, and he probably wouldn't be able to answer half of them because you've only been out a few times. Talk about awkward. And then if things turn sour after a while, he'd have to update them about the whole thing. It's unnecessary, which is why most people wait to mention this until it's grown into a relationship.
Author writergal Posted September 28, 2009 Author Posted September 28, 2009 DeuxMachine and New Again both your posts made me laugh. So true! I do need to learn to tolerate ambiguity. And yes, I set myself up by IM'ing him, after already bitching and moaning in my other thread about him. So I can see how I come across as a flakey hypocrite who refuses to change her behavior. Prettybaby, well, what am I supposed to do. Not say anything...ever? When does it become appropriate to say "hey, this is who I am, and this is what I need." I think anytime is appropriate to let the other person know that. The sooner. The better.
Taramere Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 x2 Taramere, I hope to one day be this articulate! Thanks - but I don't recommend being ridiculously wordy and mixing metaphors as a goal, NA. I just haven't got over the Joni Mitchell/Rudyard Kipling thing yet. TaraMere, New Again: I see nothing wrong with being high maintenance. At all. But I don't like the way you're portraying me as some sort of clingy, needy woman in your responses. What does it really matter what our perceptions are of how clingy/needy or whatever else you are? If the guy doesn't think that, and if he goes for high maintenance - then you're on. If not, you'll have to hold out for someone who enjoys that approach. And learn to deal with the occasions he's less in the mood for it.
loveslife Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 I think his behavior of ignoring me is rude. And I won't apologize for thinking that way. Plus, I don't need to expound on the things I like about him. That's not the point of my thread. The point of my thread is, trying to determine what I need to do, so that I don't over-react if/when he does call me. Well, I don't need to respond to your incessant nonsense anymore.
Author writergal Posted September 28, 2009 Author Posted September 28, 2009 After which he probably added that he'd call you back later and that it was no big deal, so that he could avoid a personal phone call in front of his folks. He never said he'd call me back later. He said "I'll see you when I get back." RE: the Joni Mitchell song lyrics for "If." Excuse me for not recognizing Kipling embedded in her lyrics.
New Again Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 DeuxMachine and New Again both your posts made me laugh. So true! I do need to learn to tolerate ambiguity. And yes, I set myself up by IM'ing him, after already bitching and moaning in my other thread about him. So I can see how I come across as a flakey hypocrite who refuses to change her behavior. Prettybaby, well, what am I supposed to do. Not say anything...ever? When does it become appropriate to say "hey, this is who I am, and this is what I need." I think anytime is appropriate to let the other person know that. The sooner. The better. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Go ahead and do that. Be assertive. Say what you want. But then you have to follow through also! If you say what you want, and you don't get it, don't keep contacting him and expect him to change!!! If you don't get what you want, stop putting up with it! Stop contacting him and let him see through your ACTIONS that you're not going to put up with that! He will then either change his behavior accordingly if you likes you, or he won't if he's really not that interested.
prettybaby Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 DeuxMachine and New Again both your posts made me laugh. So true! I do need to learn to tolerate ambiguity. And yes, I set myself up by IM'ing him, after already bitching and moaning in my other thread about him. So I can see how I come across as a flakey hypocrite who refuses to change her behavior. Prettybaby, well, what am I supposed to do. Not say anything...ever? When does it become appropriate to say "hey, this is who I am, and this is what I need." I think anytime is appropriate to let the other person know that. The sooner. The better. I don't really get what you're trying to achieve here though. Why is it so hard to back off from some guy you've only dated 4 times? Just give him some space and don't contact him while he's there. How long will he be gone anyway? It can't be THAT long. He had already made it clear that contact would be kept to a strict minimum while he's there with them. So it was only natural that you'd run yourself into frustration by trying to get the exact opposite from him, and yet, that's what you did. My boyfriend had to go somewhere for work during 2 weeks after we'd been dating for 2 months. I think we basically texted each other a few times during those 2 weeks. I knew he'd be extremely busy, and I had stuff to do as well. We decided we didn't want to bother each other, and let me tell you, when he came back, our next date was full of sparks and butterflies. Sometimes it's good to back off and breathe a little and miss your s/o. 1
prettybaby Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 He never said he'd call me back later. He said "I'll see you when I get back." I wasn't talking about what he told you. I'm only guessing whatever he may have responded to his dad. Who knows what he told his dad. What matters is what he told you: he wasn't gonna have much time to talk while on vacation with his folks, and yet you decided to completely ignore that and go against it anyway.
seoa Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 He never said he'd call me back later. He said "I'll see you when I get back." This was a supposition, of what he probably said to his dad - it's what most of us would have said to our parents, if a 4-dater was trying to contact us when we where with them... Since when did a personal phone call in front of your dad become such a big deal? He's showing his dad my profile. I think its weird that he is comfortable enough to show his dad my online dating profile, and TALK to his dad about me, but yet he won't talk to ME when I call him while he's there? Because for most of us who no longer live at home - we don't run our personal lives by our parents anymore... Maybe we spend some time with them (e.g. a little vacation time) but their place is no longer to be our primary confident... As such, they only get to hear about stuff when it's significantly important... And sorry, but in 'normal' world, 4 dates is not usually enough to be sure of that... I think it's perfectly possible that he mentioned he was using internet dating to his dad, and being of the previous generation his dad said "Ho hum, how does that work then son?", and son said "Like this - you click here, you write here, you search here - and here's an example of a girl I've seen once or twice." How's that for a believable scenario...? So to his dad, he's minimising it, coz they're NOT best buddies, and he just doesn't wanna get into it with him yet... But to you - because his very clear boundary, set at the start of his trip (which was "I will not be in a position to contact you while I'm away") does not seem to be working, and he doesn't want to offend you, he maximised it, to reassure you that he is still interested in you... Why doesn't anyone see this my way? Yes, that's a very good question... I would suggest that it's because for most of us, we have no problem imagining this kind of parent /child dynamic... Which would maybe make that "normal", if it's the average experience... Four dates is far too early to be setting hard and fast rules for what's "right" and "wrong" with contact while away... As an earlier poster said, even at fiance stage you might be lucky to get 2 texts and 2 l'il phone calls when he's away 4 days... Clearly the pros in that relationship (which I'm assuming is otherwise good) is worth the con of less-than-ideal contact-frequencies while he's away... Obviously if you marry someone who will travel with business 50% of the time, it might be more important - if this guy will be away from you (should this thing go long-term) maybe 1 or 2 weeks a year, is this really a deal-breaker for you...? Really....?
Author writergal Posted September 28, 2009 Author Posted September 28, 2009 My boyfriend had to go somewhere for work during 2 weeks after we'd been dating for 2 months. I think we basically texted each other a few times during those 2 weeks. I knew he'd be extremely busy, and I had stuff to do as well. We decided we didn't want to bother each other, and let me tell you, when he came back, our next date was full of sparks and butterflies. Sometimes it's good to back off and breathe a little and miss your s/o. Again, our situations are totally different.
prettybaby Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 Again, our situations are totally different. How so? --------
Author writergal Posted September 28, 2009 Author Posted September 28, 2009 Four dates is far too early to be setting hard and fast rules for what's "right" and "wrong" with contact while away... As an earlier poster said, even at fiance stage you might be lucky to get 2 texts and 2 l'il phone calls when he's away 4 days... Clearly the pros in that relationship (which I'm assuming is otherwise good) is worth the con of less-than-ideal contact-frequencies while he's away... Obviously if you marry someone who will travel with business 50% of the time, it might be more important - if this guy will be away from you (should this thing go long-term) maybe 1 or 2 weeks a year, is this really a deal-breaker for you...? Really....? Well, I think the communication differs for everyone. For example, I know a married couple where the husband is actually gone 50% of the time traveling for his job, while she is at home raising their two children by herself most of the time. They talk EVERY day on the phone. Another married couple I know, have lived apart for the past 4 years while the wife finishes her phD and the husband maintains his job as a doctor in another state (my state). They also talk every day. So that is what I"m looking for...at 4 dates, or 400 dates. And I don't see any problem having that as a preference. Is it s a deal breaker for me? Not if the guy is flexible to compromise and meet me half way a little bit. But if that need of mine is seen as a negative, then I guess it is a deal breaker.
Author writergal Posted September 28, 2009 Author Posted September 28, 2009 How so? By length of time....2 months is more of a commitment stage than 4 dates. Plus, your boyfriend texts you when he's away. So far that is not the case with the guy I've been out with.
prettybaby Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 Well, I think the communication differs for everyone. For example, I know a married couple where the husband is actually gone 50% of the time traveling for his job, while she is at home raising their two children by herself most of the time. They talk EVERY day on the phone. Another married couple I know, have lived apart for the past 4 years while the wife finishes her phD and the husband maintains his job as a doctor in another state (my state). They also talk every day. So that is what I"m looking for...at 4 dates, or 400 dates. And I don't see any problem having that as a preference. Is it s a deal breaker for me? Not if the guy is flexible to compromise and meet me half way a little bit. But if that need of mine is seen as a negative, then I guess it is a deal breaker. Those are married people. You cannot compare the dynamics of 2 people who've been on four dates together with the dynamics of a solid married couple. No one I know has had the same amount of communication with their partner from day 1. Those things evolve. Trust grows, love grows, and couples develop their own sense of mutual needs and boundaries. That's what dating is about: getting comfortable with one another and increasing the contact gradually, until one day, the contact has increased so much and they've been spending so much time over at each other's places and they decide to move in together. Really now, you cannot realistically expect to get that kind of commitment from someone you have only been on four dates with
seoa Posted September 28, 2009 Posted September 28, 2009 By length of time....2 months is more of a commitment stage than 4 dates. Plus, your boyfriend texts you when he's away. So far that is not the case with the guy I've been out with. So what are you going to take from this, into your next dating relationship...? Rule #543: do not start dating someone, who might go away on holiday before our relationship has got significant enough for us to contact each other while we're away... How are you going to get their schedule from them, before you start dating them...? (And yes, I'm exaggerating ever so slightly, but can you see that this is a reasonable extension of this line of thinking...?) 2
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