The Martyr Syndrom

[Sanafa]

"Individuals with Martyr Syndrome routinely sacrifice their needs and wants for those of others. But then they complain, feel taken advantage of, and remind everyone of how much they have sacrificed. They have a strong desire to be praised and needed, and what others offer in those two areas is seldom enough. Their need for sympathy and recognition of their sacrifice is unhealthy and alienates others."

 

Most people know my long story with MM..... I was very vocal ( not very popular) with my opinion that while I truly believe he loves his wife and would have found it way more concerning if he didn't that they don't and never will have a "marriage" based on anything other than the past life they have created.

 

I am in the acceptance phase of this, and contrary to lots of opinions it it the LC that has helped me start to understand exactly who my MM is.

 

I love him, with all my heart and always will but I no longer fight with him about his inconsistant statements nor do I even acknowledge them.

 

I have really come to realize a few key things

 

1. He will never leave. It's not in him, period. If and that is a big IF his Wife decides she will leave then he will move on, but he won't and can't physically be the one in the eyes of his daughters, family, co-workers, etc to pull the trigger. It ain't happening.

 

2. His honesty is only "half" and I am 100% certain he avoids statements like " If Dday would have happened a year later (daughter out of school)" or " If she would have left" to anyone but me, and that includes his IC and his MC who are one in the same. Now, I am not a therapist but those are NOT statements made by someone who is in the Marriage for the Marriage.

 

3. No ONE calls him on any of his fence sitting statements .... and of course when I do -It annoys him, because he knows I only expect him to do what is best for Him and his Wife. I do not believe, he will ever give her what he gave me.... it will be half and perhaps better than she had.... but in turn he will be the martyr.

 

I see it here with DI now - So sorry Di... not trying to offend you.

 

But there is a personality who so badly wants to do what is "societal right" and needs acceptance at any level.

 

The whole " I loved my OW, but it wouldn't have worked.... on and on... it's selling - the truth is you loved your OW but to live that full life would have taken some hard work" My MM would have had to stop saying things like " I did sacrafice - I did give things up", etc and actually own not only his feelings, but also his choices.

 

He use to say to me " We both sacrafice a lot to be here' again a Martyr syndrom.... but he loved the feeling of " I am doing the hard work" even though that truly is only the beginning.

 

His "life" is easier.... they don't know the man I know -- They know the man who has always been the "sacraficer" and for better or worse, he enjoys that... it feeds a need and will continue to.

 

I don't love him less, but I don't like the weakness that I see in the role.

 

We all know someone who is getting up their in years and says " We have a good life" ...... sacrafices but good.... or the one " I once had a love of my life ----but it didn't work"

 

FEAR. Fear of failure, Fear of looking less than perfect and Di, like I said I see it with you. Not only do you continue to beat down the reationship you had with the OW, but now you can be the good guy for staying with a cheating spouse and in fact makes you feel "needed" or validated for being strong enough to do that.

 

To be honest, strength to me is being real. Knowing that in our case "A Marriage that's lights went out 10 years ago" is the REALITY.... not the A's or the rest, and spending time dilly dallying around the truth, and playing the good guy who wants to commit and do the "hard work" is in fact anything but.

 

The HARD WORK is owning your life! That is the hard work. Teaching your kids to love themselves enough to OWN thier life.

 

 

Regardless, LC has been good for me.... I don't want a settler .... EVER. I want someone who loves his Wife and family enough to stand up and say they individually deserve better.

 

There are very few MM on this site and the other..... but almost ALL of those are the Martyr's..... one on another site was saying how "his wife loved him, he loves her and it would just be mean to divorce because of OW"

 

Arrogance...... Your WIFE deserves the same level that you profess you have with OW time and time again...... If you as the MM gave that up, it still should not entitle you to expect the Wife to take second and that is exactly what you are doing.

 

I have come to respect those that are honest FAR more than those that sit and bring everyone else down to their level out of " doing the right thing"..... Stand up and love your spouse enough to do the right thing....

 

Ok..... let the 2x4's begin...... and apologies Di for the opinions on what I have seen recently in your posts.... I could be wrong or I could give you something to think about, either way.... still like you!

[MizFit]

I have to say that I agree with a lot of things you've said...I also see a lot of your MM in my own. As I tell him so often, he's all about taking the path of least resistance. When doing that he can easily become a martyr...I hadn't really thought about it before. Thanks for the insight.

[ladydesigner]

To be honest, strength to me is being real. Knowing that in our case "A Marriage that's lights went out 10 years ago" is the REALITY.... not the A's or the rest, and spending time dilly dallying around the truth, and playing the good guy who wants to commit and do the "hard work" is in fact anything but.

 

This statement really hit home with me and I am dealing with this head on. My husband and I have been discussing lately this whole "lights gone out" with myself. I have been very honest with him and have told him I am not sure if my feelings will come back and he is not sure if he wants to wait to see. At least we are being honest about our feelings. We are both not sure if we want to be married, but I am not going to lie to him about my feelings. I have been brutally honest and so has he. I often ask myself why do we hang on to this marriage? Do we really still love each other? Is it for the kids? To keep our lifestyle? I think it is all of those things. But I am currently at a point where I am becoming okay with the idea of being on my own and being a single mom. I'm not sure if I want to be married or ever be married.

 

You bring up some very good points Sanafa. I did love my xOM in a way that I did not love my husband. It is a very confusing situation to be in. To be in a loveless marriage and then to suddenly find yourself in love with someone else. I don't think many of us married people thought that would happen to us. It was almost like breathing stale air for all of these years and suddenly you get this fresh shot of oxygen and then you don't know what to do or think of it. It is blinding. I am sure your XMM is suffereing. I am. I am struggling to find my way in this world that I have helped create and now I need to find my way through it or out of it. I am happy to not have my thoughts clouded by someone else though. I am going to do this alone and on my own and if my final decision or my H's final decision is to end the marriage then that will be it. I do know one thing, I am not going to continue in my marriage if it stays this way, I will leave. I do not want to live the rest of my life in a loveless marriage.

[Sanafa]

This statement really hit home with me and I am dealing with this head on. My husband and I have been discussing lately this whole "lights gone out" with myself. I have been very honest with him and have told him I am not sure if my feelings will come back and he is not sure if he wants to wait to see. At least we are being honest about our feelings. We are both not sure if we want to be married, but I am not going to lie to him about my feelings. I have been brutally honest and so has he. I often ask myself why do we hang on to this marriage? Do we really still love each other? Is it for the kids? To keep our lifestyle? I think it is all of those things. But I am currently at a point where I am becoming okay with the idea of being on my own and being a single mom. I'm not sure if I want to be married or ever be married.

 

You bring up some very good points Sanafa. I did love my xOM in a way that I did not love my husband. It is a very confusing situation to be in. To be in a loveless marriage and then to suddenly find yourself in love with someone else. I don't think many of us married people thought that would happen to us. It was almost like breathing stale air for all of these years and suddenly you get this fresh shot of oxygen and then you don't know what to do or think of it. It is blinding. I am sure your XMM is suffereing. I am. I am struggling to find my way in this world that I have helped create and now I need to find my way through it or out of it. I am happy to not have my thoughts clouded by someone else though. I am going to do this alone and on my own and if my final decision or my H's final decision is to end the marriage then that will be it. I do know one thing, I am not going to continue in my marriage if it stays this way, I will leave. I do not want to live the rest of my life in a loveless marriage.

 

Lady Di

 

Nice to see you, and truthfully, I have always thought you will do the hard work and you will do the right thing.

 

It's hard - I am not suggesting it's easy and I am sure he struggles. But it really has been eye opening to be in contact.

 

To hear him say " I am still me just acting different" I want to punch him- literally, lol.

 

I wish I had more faith in his strength, but I am really beginning to wonder if he will do it himself. Not to say she won't but I am not sure he can do it.

 

25 years of doing this, living the life for what it is..... it's a good one, lots of money, lots of trips, lots of work and an array of activites to keep them busy... and much like you they do "love" each other.... history and real love I believe.. but it isn't the life we would have had... we would have had all that but also told each other when something was bothering us.... had our "canoodle" time as I always demanded it.... and loved each other for the out of the box people we are.

 

He always gets defensive ( I have now stopped) when I suggest he is settling.... it's like he can't understand that I do understand he loves her, his family, I do get that..... but it wasn't enough for the last 10 years and he is wearing rose colored glasses if he thinks with all the damage of the exposure that it will somehow be enough for the next 10 or 20.... they are killing each other out of kindness.....

 

It would have been harder for him, I demand honesty-even if I don't like it but I also accept and he knows that. I just never would have settled for him to go waffling through life. I expected better, I expected him to be his best and while we could never "make each other better"... our expectations of each other was extremly healthy and scary because it meant someone truly believed in us.

 

One of the things I miss the most with him. I always seen myself as semi creative, semi successful and he always pushed - I owe a lot of my current success not to him, but certainly with him....

 

It's like a great personal trainer... the reason why they are incredibly valuable if they are great is because they see the potential and they don't stop until you see it too.

 

I am accepting now... and it's sad, bittersweet but I know I can't make him see something he doesn't want to see..... So I have to let it be what it is.

 

I told him, accepting doesn't mean agreeing - but I do love him and that is and always will be unconditional......

 

I get angry still that he made the decision for my life as well, but when I got involved I knew that was possible......so I have to be willing to accept that as a consquence as well.

 

You sound more grounded, I know I am --- Tears still come and emotions still hit.... but I am not settling, I won't - people can tell me it's the right thing and the "honorable" thing til my grave.

 

There is nothing right about short changing several people out of fear.... and I will never buy it.

 

Hang in there, I think you know the answer..... and now you just have to find acceptance.

[Devil Inside]

Sanafa you make some good points.

 

I agree that I definitely have some martyr traits. However I will take difference with some of what you said. I am different from your MM, at least by this point on some things.

 

If you read my posts you will see that I have admitted that I was not willing to make the sacrifices necessary to be with my xOW. This has always been true. I have also never said that I don't love her...or that the feelings were/are not real...only that they were created in an environment that would not be duplicated if I left my family to be with her...I don't think anyone can argue with that...just stating facts.

 

I do, however, seek approval. I do want to be seen by society as doing the right thing...guilty as charged.

 

I have been very upfront with my wife about how I feel. She knows that I am not makng any promises that I will stay in this marriage...only that I will put in the work necessary to get past this initial stage where my emotions and her emotions are confusing and I'm sure altering our judgment. Don't forget, even with the infidelity, it's not like I hate my wife or something...the passion waned...can we get it back...don't know, hope so, but don't know...I'm not fooling myself. IMO when children are invovled I owe it to them to give this a fair chance, not stay forever in a blind haze, but to try to work it out. If I were to bail now, in my current disorganized state, then I would be taking the easy way out...I owe them more than that.

 

Also, trust me on this...trying to figure out which of my emotoins is guilt, anger, or grief is not very validating. Staying in this marriage at this point does not feed me much...it is grueling and I sometimes feel like giving up...but I won't quit...I will put in some work and get to a point where I can make a logical, rational, well-informed decision.

 

Did I lose the love of my life. Maybe. However let's not forget...she dumped me. She said it was because it hurt too much to share me, because she thought I would never leave. However, what if, it was because I wasn't worth the trouble it caused her life either.

 

I no longer believe in soulmates. I believe you can have a soulmate experience. I think this whole situation where another makes you whole is actually based on the parts of yourself that you have closed off because of invalidation, usually at the hands of parents in childhood. So when someone taps into these lost parts of yourself...you feel whole for the first time in your life...it is beautiful and wonderful and should be enjoyed and celebrated...but I do not think it is unique to just one person...I think there are several people in the world that can give me that feeling. So my point is...losing her hurts and is hard...but by no means am I condemned to never have that experience again...she was not the only one in the world that could give me that...and it doesn't mean my wife can give me that like she once did either...we have changed.

 

Sanafa...I appreciate your honesty and directness. You have given me a lot to think about. I think that many of the things that your MM said to you I said to my xOW...it's probably why she left me. I hope that you can see that what I am doing is seeing the reality of the affair, the relationship, and not discounting the woman. She was a glorious, radiant, strong, and beautiful woman...I wouldn't have been so attracted to her if she wasn't...but the relationship, the affair, was what it was.

 

Well, this should be good for some discussion today. No matter what Sanafa...you know I respect and like you too.

[Sanafa]

 

If you read my posts you will see that I have admitted that I was not willing to make the sacrifices necessary to be with my xOW. This has always been true. I have also never said that I don't love her...or that the feelings were/are not real...only that they were created in an environment that would not be duplicated if I left my family to be with her...I don't think anyone can argue with that...just stating facts.

Actually, Di - You did while in the Affair. You made sacrifices in lying, in living two worlds, etc.

 

And we will argue the "feelings could not be duplicated".... nothing to duplicate if they were already there. If your feelings were real, and unless you were truly living in bliss at all times ( we did have challenges and knew how each other coped in the 'real' world') is it not possible that it is fear and selling yourself on " it wouldn't work" to make you feel better?

 

I'm not fooling myself. IMO when children are involved I owe it to them to give this a fair chance, not stay forever in a blind haze, but to try to work it out. If I were to bail now, in my current disorganized state, then I would be taking the easy way out...I owe them more than that.

I agree that you have to try - however how long do you continue to hurt each other in the name of being honorable? Have you set a deadline? or will it become ( which I think it often does)... We are "making progress" blah blah blah - simply because the initial anger is gone.... how long do you work on something that may not be recoverable?

 

Also, trust me on this...trying to figure out which of my emotoins is guilt, anger, or grief is not very validating. Staying in this marriage at this point does not feed me much...it is grueling and I sometimes feel like giving up...but I won't quit...I will put in some work and get to a point where I can make a logical, rational, well-informed decision.

Sorry Di - here it is classic Martyr --- "See, it's not fun - but I am doing it" My MM in a nutshell. Do you know he still trys to explain away if he sounds "happy".... " I know it sounded like I was have a good time but......."

 

Did I lose the love of my life. Maybe. However let's not forget...she dumped me. She said it was because it hurt too much to share me, because she thought I would never leave. However, what if, it was because I wasn't worth the trouble it caused her life either.

And maybe she is where I am. I want a Man who will be honest, not with just me.... but most important with himself. Maybe she thought better of you, yet seen that you didn't see the power in yourself? I will be honest, I have set a very specific time line for myself - If he is still "trying' .... he can try for the rest of his days.... I am gone.

 

They have been trying for 3 months... not long, but in truth NOTHING has been said that wasn't said 3 months ago ---- he has not become more confident in his choice, nor has he become more confident in himself... The same argument for staying, the same getting upset if I call him on something.... and I have to admit, he loves his IC - but he isn't truly being honest with him either and I am unsure if his IC is doing anything more than listening..... it makes it sound as if his IC is calling him on very little. Could be he is saying what he is suppose to or could be that he doesn't want to hear it yet... I am unsure.

 

I no longer believe in soulmates. I believe you can have a soulmate experience. I think this whole situation where another makes you whole is actually based on the parts of yourself that you have closed off because of invalidation, usually at the hands of parents in childhood. So when someone taps into these lost parts of yourself...you feel whole for the first time in your life...it is beautiful and wonderful and should be enjoyed and celebrated...but I do not think it is unique to just one person...I think there are several people in the world that can give me that feeling. So my point is...losing her hurts and is hard...but by no means am I condemned to never have that experience again...she was not the only one in the world that could give me that...and it doesn't mean my wife can give me that like she once did either...we have changed.

'

 

I believe there are a few that can meet your needs ( and let's face it - that is a primary part of finding happiness with someone) No one says the other should make you whole - but no matter how "perfect" we are, no one is whole alone and a great partner enhances your life and yes, does make you a better person.

 

As for having it again - I am on the fence ---- I have had some fantastic relationships, none in comparison to ours and I am 40... he is 50 - So yes, but they are few and far between.... RARE and a GIFT

 

Sanafa...I appreciate your honesty and directness. You have given me a lot to think about. I think that many of the things that your MM said to you I said to my xOW...it's probably why she left me. I hope that you can see that what I am doing is seeing the reality of the affair, the relationship, and not discounting the woman. She was a glorious, radiant, strong, and beautiful woman...I wouldn't have been so attracted to her if she wasn't...but the relationship, the affair, was what it was.

The ol " it was what it was".... What is that!!! again, a way to discount it ( not saying the Woman, because I do believe my MM believes the same about me) but for the love of god - stop discounting a relationship you never gave a chance to. You CANNOT assume it would have been less than it was ------- and doing that, is a way of martyring and justifying what you will have in the future.

 

Well, this should be good for some discussion today. No matter what Sanafa...you know I respect and like you too.

 

 

 

I think the only difference for us, was we had a DDay and it ended, rather than I or him voluntarily leaving.

 

But with the LC will come the point where I do the same as your OW and in truth it will be another excuse to martyr it away..... for him too.

[Devil Inside]

Actually, Di - You did while in the Affair. You made sacrifices in lying, in living two worlds, etc.

 

OK...I can see that. I should have said, I did not make the sacrifices necessary to be only with her. Looking back I was a cake eater...plain and simple.

 

And we will argue the "feelings could not be duplicated".... nothing to duplicate if they were already there. If your feelings were real, and unless you were truly living in bliss at all times ( we did have challenges and knew how each other coped in the 'real' world') is it not possible that it is fear and selling yourself on " it wouldn't work" to make you feel better?

 

OK...let me clarify...the feelings are there...you're right. I said the SITUATION could not be duplicated. If I divorced my wife and gave it a shot with OW it would be different. We would no longer have a relationship that was based on secret rendezvous where we were basically on vacation from our children, jobs, bills, and all else that encompasses life. Real life would have been different.

 

However, is it possible I am just trying to justify all of this to make myself feel like I didn't just make a huge mistake...sure. Simple fact is there are no guarantees in love...it may have worked so wonderfully and our love and passion for each other may have stayed at a level similar to where it was in the affair. I was afraid to take the risk...so yeah I let fear factor in...fear of the unknown.

 

 

I agree that you have to try - however how long do you continue to hurt each other in the name of being honorable? Have you set a deadline? or will it become ( which I think it often does)... We are "making progress" blah blah blah - simply because the initial anger is gone.... how long do you work on something that may not be recoverable?

 

My wife and I have made it clear we are doing this because we think that we have enough of a base and love for each other that it could work. We are not doing this solely because it is the honorable thing to do.

 

I have set a deadline of a year. In IC I am working on what concrete things can be used to assess where we are in a year. I do not just want to slip back into settling. The other important thing here too is that she is no longer going to settle...she told me she wants the me that I was with my xOW...she knows because when we first fell in love she got that. I am working on being able to give her that...however, I am being very honest, and right now I am not ready to be that vulnerable with her..she may not be able to wait...but we both have to live with our decisions either way.

 

 

Sorry Di - here it is classic Martyr --- "See, it's not fun - but I am doing it" My MM in a nutshell. Do you know he still trys to explain away if he sounds "happy".... " I know it sounded like I was have a good time but......."

 

You are right here. Gosh....pretty obvious. Thanks for calling me out on this one. I need you to be my Martyr police...lol.

 

 

 

And maybe she is where I am. I want a Man who will be honest, not with just me.... but most important with himself. Maybe she thought better of you, yet seen that you didn't see the power in yourself? I will be honest, I have set a very specific time line for myself - If he is still "trying' .... he can try for the rest of his days.... I am gone.

 

She did see my potential, and like you say here...it drove her crazy that I wouldn't stand up for myself....made her feel like I wouldn't be there for her...not because I didn't have it me...but because I didn't believe that I did.

 

I'm glad you have set a timeline. Do not wait forever Sanafa. Thing us...I think most of us MMs are damged. We may be lovable...but I do not know how many of us really have it in us to leave our marriages...happy or not. If we did have it in us we probably would not have been with our spouses in the first place. This is something that I am working on in myself...hopefully your MM will be able to do the same.

 

 

 

They have been trying for 3 months... not long, but in truth NOTHING has been said that wasn't said 3 months ago ---- he has not become more confident in his choice, nor has he become more confident in himself... The same argument for staying, the same getting upset if I call him on something.... and I have to admit, he loves his IC - but he isn't truly being honest with him either and I am unsure if his IC is doing anything more than listening..... it makes it sound as if his IC is calling him on very little. Could be he is saying what he is suppose to or could be that he doesn't want to hear it yet... I am unsure.

 

This is where you really have to assess what he wants and what he is willing to do based on his actions and not his words.

 

I hope he is honest in IC...I know I am. My IC knows what is in my head....poor guy. He has told me straight up..."you don't know what you want yet...and won't for awhile." This is the truth. So that's what I work on...really knowing and then feeling enough self worth to ask for what I want.

 

 

As for having it again - I am on the fence ---- I have had some fantastic relationships, none in comparison to ours and I am 40... he is 50 - So yes, but they are few and far between.... RARE and a GIFT

 

Some relationships are rare and gifts. My relationship with xOW was life changing. I do see it as a gift. Even if I never see her again she is with me always. She has imprinted herself in my life by changing the way I love...crazy thing is all she did was remove the obstacles to reaching my potential. Whether it is my wife or another woman...how I love from here on was changed by her.

 

The ol " it was what it was".... What is that!!! again, a way to discount it ( not saying the Woman, because I do believe my MM believes the same about me) but for the love of god - stop discounting a relationship you never gave a chance to. You CANNOT assume it would have been less than it was ------- and doing that, is a way of martyring and justifying what you will have in the future.

 

OK...that statement is obviously not appropriate. It does saddenme though that we had to be connected through an affair. It may not change the fact that our feelings and connection were real...but it sucks that we have to be forever connected by dishonesty and lies.

 

 

I think the only difference for us, was we had a DDay and it ended, rather than I or him voluntarily leaving.

 

That is true...however there was a choice made to end it...don't fool yourself. All Dday does is make that choice become necessary...but he could have left her on the spot.

 

 

But with the LC will come the point where I do the same as your OW and in truth it will be another excuse to martyr it away..... for him too.

 

Be that as it may...there comes a point where you need to look out for you. Why he satys, and whether he is lying to himself is great for insight and closure and all...but he is still with her.

 

I'm sorry you are hurting. You do seem in a different place now. I hope that this situation resolves itself in a manner that will leave you in a place you can accept.

 

Thanks for calling me on my stuff. I need tough love too.

[ladydesigner]

Some relationships are rare and gifts. My relationship with xOW was life changing. I do see it as a gift. Even if I never see her again she is with me always. She has imprinted herself in my life by changing the way I love...crazy thing is all she did was remove the obstacles to reaching my potential. Whether it is my wife or another woman...how I love from here on was changed by her.

 

DI god this is an amazing statement. As much as I try and tell myself xOM was a jerk, he hurt me , I'm mad at him. This statement is how I feel deep down inside. I don't like to look at it because it brings me back to that point of "having feelings for him again" and I am trying to bury those deep right now. NC is definitely helping me and xOM has not contacted me anymore. But yes he definitely left an imprint on my life. I am sure this is not fair to my H that I feel that xOM has left a huge mark on my soul. I also feel that how I love from this day forward has definitely been changed by xOM. I am not sure if I will be able to love my H the same ever again.

[bentnotbroken]

DI god this is an amazing statement. As much as I try and tell myself xOM was a jerk, he hurt me , I'm mad at him. This statement is how I feel deep down inside. I don't like to look at it because it brings me back to that point of "having feelings for him again" and I am trying to bury those deep right now. NC is definitely helping me and xOM has not contacted me anymore. But yes he definitely left an imprint on my life. I am sure this is not fair to my H that I feel that xOM has left a huge mark on my soul. I also feel that how I love from this day forward has definitely been changed by xOM. I am not sure if I will be able to love my H the same ever again.

 

 

Maybe it's time to consider letting him go to find someone who might give him the kind of love he deserves.

[Sanafa]

OK...let me clarify...the feelings are there...you're right. I said the SITUATION could not be duplicated. If I divorced my wife and gave it a shot with OW it would be different. We would no longer have a relationship that was based on secret rendezvous where we were basically on vacation from our children, jobs, bills, and all else that encompasses life. Real life would have been different.

 

I 100% agree and we both said it would also be a different relationship, but perhaps being female, I see how much we gave each other through the lies and could only fathom the possibilities we would have had been entirely free. Unfortunate for all, that we may not find out.

 

However, is it possible I am just trying to justify all of this to make myself feel like I didn't just make a huge mistake...sure. Simple fact is there are no guarantees in love...it may have worked so wonderfully and our love and passion for each other may have stayed at a level similar to where it was in the affair. I was afraid to take the risk...so yeah I let fear factor in...fear of the unknown.

 

I agree, but the reason I am where I am is really trying to find the truth... so hiding the love or the frustration in not having that choice is similar to what Lady Di just said - It's burying it, and that is clearly not healthy ---it comes back to bite us all in the ass, myself included.

 

My wife and I have made it clear we are doing this because we think that we have enough of a base and love for each other that it could work. We are not doing this solely because it is the honorable thing to do.

 

And I think it is important to see this through, I am not arguing it's bad to work on this, my problem is the ongoing desire ( I see you doing it alot more now) to take the A relationship down, perhaps to make it easier - but it benefits no one.

 

I have set a deadline of a year. In IC I am working on what concrete things can be used to assess where we are in a year. I do not just want to slip back into settling. The other important thing here too is that she is no longer going to settle...she told me she wants the me that I was with my xOW...she knows because when we first fell in love she got that. I am working on being able to give her that...however, I am being very honest, and right now I am not ready to be that vulnerable with her..she may not be able to wait...but we both have to live with our decisions either way

.

 

And Di - Hold yourself to her expectations! Only YOU will know if you are giving her what you gave the OW..... and please believe both you and her deserve that.

 

 

You are right here. Gosh....pretty obvious. Thanks for calling me out on this one. I need you to be my Martyr police...lol.

 

Haha.... no serious..... not the police.... but it was pretty obvious ( maybe I should be a therapists...considered it years ago.... HAHA.... I think I would butcher most people)

 

 

I'm glad you have set a timeline. Do not wait forever Sanafa. Thing us...I think most of us MMs are damged. We may be lovable...but I do not know how many of us really have it in us to leave our marriages...happy or not. If we did have it in us we probably would not have been with our spouses in the first place. This is something that I am working on in myself...hopefully your MM will be able to do the same.

 

Even though it may not sound like it as I have decided to "wait and see" just for a bit, I am in a much healthier place. I still miss him like crazy ( the physical miss JUST kicked in and let me tell you.... given the opportunity I could eat him for Breakfast/Lunch and Supper!!!)

 

But I have also really put up boundaries. Our Contact has not been lovey, dovey, I miss you.... it had been but as I started to see the potential that nothing will change, I told him straight up - I can accept without agreeing and no longer sharing my thoughts with him regarding him/me or the situation. He needs to come to his own truth... whatever that is.

 

I hope he is honest in IC...I know I am. My IC knows what is in my head....poor guy. He has told me straight up..."you don't know what you want yet...and won't for awhile." This is the truth. So that's what I work on...really knowing and then feeling enough self worth to ask for what I want.

 

 

I hope he is too.... but something tells me he's not 100%... Like I said I have a hard time thinking a MC/IC would not call him on the statements and to be honest, I am unsure if he is sharing his contact with me. At first he made it sound like he was, but then I got a sense he was saying that because he knew it would look back if that wasn't the case. I now believe after the last conversation, he is not sharing all of it.

 

 

Some relationships are rare and gifts. My relationship with xOW was life changing. I do see it as a gift. Even if I never see her again she is with me always. She has imprinted herself in my life by changing the way I love...crazy thing is all she did was remove the obstacles to reaching my potential. Whether it is my wife or another woman...how I love from here on was changed by her.

 

I agree, and as I get healthier I realize ( although it is fricken painful that he and I were a gift - but that doesn't mean it is forever)

 

 

OK...that statement is obviously not appropriate. It does saddenme though that we had to be connected through an affair. It may not change the fact that our feelings and connection were real...but it sucks that we have to be forever connected by dishonesty and lies.

 

I know exactly what you are saying! I wish with all my heart we would have not hurt everyone with our relationship. I would have given my eye tooth, to have what we had the honest and fair way..... I get it.

 

That is true...however there was a choice made to end it...don't fool yourself. All Dday does is make that choice become necessary...but he could have left her on the spot

 

No fooling myself.... I say it all the time " He choose her". I even tell him that, no rose color glasses on. However, I also don't think leaving on the spot was ever an option.... He is a decent guy, and the destruction was life altering... add a woman who he thought should hate him saying stay.... it's a hard sell Di..... especially to a martyr;)

 

 

Be that as it may...there comes a point where you need to look out for you. Why he satys, and whether he is lying to himself is great for insight and closure and all...but he is still with her.

 

I'm sorry you are hurting. You do seem in a different place now. I hope that this situation resolves itself in a manner that will leave you in a place you can accept.

 

Thanks for calling me on my stuff. I need tough love too.[

 

I am truly looking out for me. The more I see him, myself for exactly who we are.... I find it easier to accept.

 

I also had to decide if I was going to stick around for a bit... and you know what, I do love him - I would do the hard work, and with no guarantees it would work. But much like a BS, I love him enough to give him time to figure it out or at least until I am comfortable that he has made the best decision for him.

 

You said earlier, you were in no place to make a decision and that your IC says you still don't know what you want..... I really don't think it is any different for my MM. So, the decision he made DDay was in all of the emotion..... with a little time, the true decision will be on the table. I will 100% except whatever that is, and be able to leave knowing he made his decision with strenght, rather than fear.

 

When everything blew up a very good male friend of mine said it would be at least 9 months to a year until we truly knew the outcome. I agree and if he still maintains the marriage is where he wants to be -- I will be the first to wish him love.

[Sanafa]

DI god this is an amazing statement. As much as I try and tell myself xOM was a jerk, he hurt me , I'm mad at him. This statement is how I feel deep down inside. I don't like to look at it because it brings me back to that point of "having feelings for him again" and I am trying to bury those deep right now. NC is definitely helping me and xOM has not contacted me anymore. But yes he definitely left an imprint on my life. I am sure this is not fair to my H that I feel that xOM has left a huge mark on my soul. I also feel that how I love from this day forward has definitely been changed by xOM. I am not sure if I will be able to love my H the same ever again.

 

Lady Di

 

I truly think deep down you know the answer. I really do, I think hiding from that is the same as hiding from your true feelings for the OM. You can bury, but I believe it will come back to bite you in the ass.

 

As hard as it is to say it's over - I think if you were 100% honest, you would say it was over a long time ago.

 

Time, love is precious.... and was one of my points with DI ---- You both deserve to be happy.

 

That may not be with your OM..... but holding onto each other, when it is over..... is suffocating each other and is anything but love.

 

God, I wish you strength.

[Susmay]

"Individuals with Martyr Syndrome routinely sacrifice their needs and wants for those of others. But then they complain, feel taken advantage of, and remind everyone of how much they have sacrificed. They have a strong desire to be praised and needed, and what others offer in those two areas is seldom enough. Their need for sympathy and recognition of their sacrifice is unhealthy and alienates others."

 

...

 

I have always beleived that martyrdom is more common in women that men, but I'm not really sure.

 

Either way if this definition is true and that the person complains about it, alienates others and it's unhealthy then surely one would question why anyone (BS or OP) would really want to be with such a person.

[NoIDidn't]

I certainly agree that many, most, MM suffer from Martyr Syndrome - hearing a former OP say it makes it sound like they are just mad that the MP chose the M and not them.

[Sanafa]

I certainly agree that many' date=' most, MM suffer from Martyr Syndrome - hearing a former OP say it makes it sound like they are just mad that the MP chose the M and not them.[/quote']

 

Why am I not surprised

 

I am not angry, in fact I honestly have not been more relaxed with his choice. I simply accept that many things he does is martyring and if it sounds angry that I personally don't think that benefits anyone ( including his w) so be it

 

Personally, I think he is so much better than that.... and as I said - I would love to see a confident decision based on his strengths rather than his weaknesses... yes, NID even if that was his wife.

 

No anger here, not even close.

[tami-chan]

Great thread, Sanafa!

 

This is what I got from reading the previous posts: That those who stay in a relationship "sacrificing" their own happiness, are inflicted by this psych "disease" called Martyr Syndrome. Well, if that is the case then most of us have suffered from this syndrome at one time or another. The OW/OM for painfully waiting until the MM/MW divorces the BS to be with him/her; the WS for "sacrificing his true love" to stay in a "loveless, sexless :rolleyes:" marriage; the BS for staying with a lying WS in the hopes that he/she would change and in effect, save the marriage , etc.etc.etc...

 

However, maybe we need to break down what MARTYR SYNDROME is: I found this definition:"Martyr syndrome is a term that describes people who use self-sacrifice and suffering to control or manipulate their environment. It frequently includes being stuck in a victim mentality with resulting feelings of helplessness." Someone inflicted by this syndrome holds on to his/her suffering, perhaps because of fear of change or a fear of consequence or not having self-esteem and not feeling competent to face the consequences of change, will most likely put you on a first class flight to martyrdom.

 

So if you are someone who is able to make your SO understand and accept what is acceptable or not acceptable to you-and you are able to set the parameters in the relationship, you are not a martyr.

 

If you are a WS who recognize/accept you screwed up and decide to work on your marriage not because you feel you have been "victimized" by circumstance (or by the OW who possesses supernatural ensnaring powers , or by the frigid, unloving BS:rolleyes:), and you truly believe it is within your capacity to live a truer, more responsible life(whether successful in saving the marriage or realizing divorce is inevitable)-sorry, you are not a martyr-to be a martyr, you have to feel victimized and helpless.

 

If you are a BS and you decide you deserve a husband who is a 100% there and your children deserve a father who is 100% there and you tell you WS it is either this, or it's over, recognizing that it is going to take a lot of work...sorry, you are also not a martyr!

 

Staying in a relationship(whether in a marriage or affair) and deciding to work on the issues in the relationship does not make one a martyr. It makes one proactive in making changes in the hopes for a better, truer life. Recognizing and accepting the realities of what it would take to sustain a relationship that is both nurturing and a source of joy is not being a martyr-it is being realistic. So if you give up the love of your life because you realized the relationship cannot be sustained it is not martyrdom.

[SidLyon]

Great thread, Sanafa!

 

This is what I got from reading the previous posts: That those who stay in a relationship "sacrificing" their own happiness, are inflicted by this psych "disease" called Martyr Syndrome. Well, if that is the case then most of us have suffered from this syndrome at one time or another. The OW/OM for painfully waiting until the MM/MW divorces the BS to be with him/her; the WS for "sacrificing his true love" to stay in a "loveless, sexless :rolleyes:" marriage; the BS for staying with a lying WS in the hopes that he/she would change and in effect, save the marriage , etc.etc.etc...

 

However, maybe we need to break down what MARTYR SYNDROME is: I found this definition:"Martyr syndrome is a term that describes people who use self-sacrifice and suffering to control or manipulate their environment. It frequently includes being stuck in a victim mentality with resulting feelings of helplessness." Someone inflicted by this syndrome holds on to his/her suffering, perhaps because of fear of change or a fear of consequence or not having self-esteem and not feeling competent to face the consequences of change, will most likely put you on a first class flight to martyrdom.

 

So if you are someone who is able to make your SO understand and accept what is acceptable or not acceptable to you-and you are able to set the parameters in the relationship, you are not a martyr.

 

If you are a WS who recognize/accept you screwed up and decide to work on your marriage not because you feel you have been "victimized" by circumstance (or by the OW who possesses supernatural ensnaring powers , or by the frigid, unloving BS:rolleyes:), and you truly believe it is within your capacity to live a truer, more responsible life(whether successful in saving the marriage or realizing divorce is inevitable)-sorry, you are not a martyr-to be a martyr, you have to feel victimized and helpless.

 

If you are a BS and you decide you deserve a husband who is a 100% there and your children deserve a father who is 100% there and you tell you WS it is either this, or it's over, recognizing that it is going to take a lot of work...sorry, you are also not a martyr!

 

Staying in a relationship(whether in a marriage or affair) and deciding to work on the issues in the relationship does not make one a martyr. It makes one proactive in making changes in the hopes for a better, truer life. Recognizing and accepting the realities of what it would take to sustain a relationship that is both nurturing and a source of joy is not being a martyr-it is being realistic. So if you give up the love of your life because you realized the relationship cannot be sustained it is not martyrdom.

 

Thank you Tami - this seems a more comprehensive description of a "martyr" and also makes a distinction between the different motivations behind people doing what they do when it comes to As.

 

The original description of "martyr" was:

 

"Individuals with Martyr Syndrome routinely sacrifice their needs and wants for those of others. But then they complain, feel taken advantage of, and remind everyone of how much they have sacrificed. They have a strong desire to be praised and needed, and what others offer in those two areas is seldom enough. Their need for sympathy and recognition of their sacrifice is unhealthy and alienates others."

 

 

This seemed to categorize all MM who stay as being whining, complaining, needy types - frankly it doesn't make them sound very attractive to either BWs or OWs. And lets face it often both the BW and OW want these guys!

[Sanafa]

Great thread, Sanafa!

 

This is what I got from reading the previous posts: That those who stay in a relationship "sacrificing" their own happiness, are inflicted by this psych "disease" called Martyr Syndrome. Well, if that is the case then most of us have suffered from this syndrome at one time or another. The OW/OM for painfully waiting until the MM/MW divorces the BS to be with him/her; the WS for "sacrificing his true love" to stay in a "loveless, sexless :rolleyes:" marriage; the BS for staying with a lying WS in the hopes that he/she would change and in effect, save the marriage , etc.etc.etc...

 

Hi Tami --- Good to see you and yes, I like discussions... they do bring things to light.

 

I agree that all of us at one time or another have been inflicted ( I call it the hagandez pity party:laugh:)

 

However, maybe we need to break down what MARTYR SYNDROME is: I found this definition:"Martyr syndrome is a term that describes people who use self-sacrifice and suffering to control or manipulate their environment. It frequently includes being stuck in a victim mentality with resulting feelings of helplessness." Someone inflicted by this syndrome holds on to his/her suffering, perhaps because of fear of change or a fear of consequence or not having self-esteem and not feeling competent to face the consequences of change, will most likely put you on a first class flight to martyrdom.

 

This appears to be a slightly varied definition than the one I originally quoted but I think the jest is the same, just not sure I am buying that they have to feel "helpless". To me, imo as I said what I related with, was the idea that they (they/we/all) get a high or feel good pat on the back when because we are doing what we think everyone wants us to and that high from being needed. For MM that is usually the OW while in the A and then becomes the BS who wants them even after the DDay.... that "needed" and I am doing this for the "right" reasons.

 

So if you are someone who is able to make your SO understand and accept what is acceptable or not acceptable to you-and you are able to set the parameters in the relationship, you are not a martyr.

 

I agree here 100%

 

If you are a WS who recognize/accept you screwed up and decide to work on your marriage not because you feel you have been "victimized" by circumstance (or by the OW who possesses supernatural ensnaring powers , or by the frigid, unloving BS:rolleyes:), and you truly believe it is within your capacity to live a truer, more responsible life(whether successful in saving the marriage or realizing divorce is inevitable)-sorry, you are not a martyr-to be a martyr, you have to feel victimized and helpless.

 

I am still not sold that you have to feel helpless or victimized to be a martyr. I still think "martyring" can also be the need to be needed and to feel good by the pats on the back for making the "hard" choices. Again, I could be wrong but it appears your definition focusus on those particular words and the one I found has a more varied reference to the term.

 

If you are a BS and you decide you deserve a husband who is a 100% there and your children deserve a father who is 100% there and you tell you WS it is either this, or it's over, recognizing that it is going to take a lot of work...sorry, you are also not a martyr!

 

I don't recall saying I thought that was??

 

Staying in a relationship(whether in a marriage or affair) and deciding to work on the issues in the relationship does not make one a martyr. It makes one proactive in making changes in the hopes for a better, truer life. Recognizing and accepting the realities of what it would take to sustain a relationship that is both nurturing and a source of joy is not being a martyr-it is being realistic. So if you give up the love of your life because you realized the relationship cannot be sustained it is not martyrdom.

 

Again, I don't disagree... However I do believe that some sit on the fence and that is not " giving up anything".

 

In fact, I have said it many times - If the decision made was a confident one, and one of full resolve ( like some of the successful LS members here - Silks come instantly to mind) then I am 100% supportive of what that desicion is

 

It's the whole.... having to make one thing look worse than it is or continuing on the " If" "If" "If's"

 

The wanting of approval for your "right" doing and while you may not agree and made some very good points ( which I much like... makes you think)

 

Do you not agree that many MM Martyr more often than the average person?

[Sanafa]

Thank you Tami - this seems a more comprehensive description of a "martyr" and also makes a distinction between the different motivations behind people doing what they do when it comes to As.

 

The original description of "martyr" was:

 

"Individuals with Martyr Syndrome routinely sacrifice their needs and wants for those of others. But then they complain, feel taken advantage of, and remind everyone of how much they have sacrificed. They have a strong desire to be praised and needed, and what others offer in those two areas is seldom enough. Their need for sympathy and recognition of their sacrifice is unhealthy and alienates others."

 

 

This seemed to categorize all MM who stay as being whining, complaining, needy types - frankly it doesn't make them sound very attractive to either BWs or OWs. And lets face it often both the BW and OW want these guys!

 

Just an FYI - I didn't create that definition, simply google martyring today and it was the first - more than one or two sentences that I found.

[tami-chan]

This appears to be a slightly varied definition than the one I originally quoted but I think the jest is the same, just not sure I am buying that they have to feel "helpless". To me, imo as I said what I related with, was the idea that they (they/we/all) get a high or feel good pat on the back when because we are doing what we think everyone wants us to and that high from being needed. For MM that is usually the OW while in the A and then becomes the BS who wants them even after the DDay.... that "needed" and I am doing this for the "right" reasons.

 

There is a thin line between "martydom" and going through the fire in order to live a truer and ultimately, a life of joy. Certainly, some MMs stay in their marriages and suffer quietly and "live with" the unhappiness..these are the people who hang on to their suffering, afraid to take the leap of make the necessary changes and yes, they are inflicted with the martyr syndrome.

 

Having said that, there are also MMs who choose to stay in their marriages, to tackle the issues in their marriage. Yes, they are giving up the OW who made them feel like they are on top of the world but they are also realistic enough to realize that the relationship is untested perhaps by societal/familial scrutiny and most likely will not survive. MMs who go through deep introspection, seek counseling, ask forgiveness, try to breathe new life to their marriages are not martyrs....remember, a martyr resigns to his fate...to death, so to speak...if one is proactive in making changes in his life, one does not have the martyr syndrome. Simply giving up something or someone who made you reach great heights in sexual ecstasy or made you feel like a "whole person" once again, does not make one a martyr.

 

I am still not sold that you have to feel helpless or victimized to be a martyr. I still think "martyring" can also be the need to be needed and to feel good by the pats on the back for making the "hard" choices. Again, I could be wrong but it appears your definition focusus on those particular words and the one I found has a more varied reference to the term.

 

Being a martyr is a difficult feat to achieve. It is surrendering one's life to people who want you gone (or dead), in this case, symbolically. In an unhappy marriage, to be a martyr you have to surrender basically your life to your wife, to your kids-you essentially "die" within yourself. And yes, some people do...and they are like walking zombies. If one is pro-actively making changes in his life and tackling issues and finding solution, that is not martyrdom, that is just living life.

 

I stayed in my marriage for more than 17 years, my stbxh, a serial cheater. Was I a martyr? Heck no. I stayed on my own terms. I made demands and got them. I re-defined my relationship with my H. I lived the life that I chose and I do not regret it for the most part. However, I am sure all his OWs thought, I was a martyr...but they did not know what my parameters were, nor did they know the desires of my heart....did I care? No, I did not care one bit what they thought of me.

 

I don't recall saying I thought that was??

 

It was a general statement--not directed at you or what you might or might not have written.

 

Again, I don't disagree... However I do believe that some sit on the fence and that is not " giving up anything".

 

yes...well...nobody would sit on the fence if they are not given the opportunity to do.

 

Wanting to do the 'right thing 'is not necessarily "martyrdom"...like I said, there are many things that go into being a martyr..

 

Do you not agree that many MM Martyr more often than the average person?

 

I do not know the stat on this. I think many MMs (I do not know if MOST do) ultimately decide to stay in the marriage because they believe the relationship can be worked on. I remember there was an MM here who stayed in his marriage because he felt he did not really have a choice( stayed because of the kids, I think)....and he never showed remorse, he detested the wife, he told the wife point blank why he was staying and he did not work on making his marriage better(he could've re-establish friendship, but no, he was just one bitter person)....now that's someone with the martyr syndrome. Someone who has surrender his life, someone who has died within himself.

[Devil Inside]

Tami I like your definition. It does seem to make more sense.

 

I think Sanafa that this need to be needed is more apt of somebody with low self esteem that has a need to be externally validated as opposed to someone with healthy esteem that wants external validation, but if they don't get it can internally validate themselves.

 

I have struggled with my self esteem...no secret there. However I must tell you that the fact that I have confessed my affair and been honest with my wife as we attempt to make things work has been refreshing and is helping me with my self worth. I did not take the easy way out...and not because I want people to tell me how great that was...I mean besides here and my therapist nobody really knows what is going on...I did it because I cannot live in a marriage where we hold secrets. It is because I want to try, one last time, for a real connection with my wife, with this woman that I do love and once was in love with, I will not accept less and that had to start by wiping the slate clean.

 

Your MM will have his own reasons.

[Sanafa]

Tami I like your definition. It does seem to make more sense.

 

I think Sanafa that this need to be needed is more apt of somebody with low self esteem that has a need to be externally validated as opposed to someone with healthy esteem that wants external validation, but if they don't get it can internally validate themselves.

 

I have struggled with my self esteem...no secret there. However I must tell you that the fact that I have confessed my affair and been honest with my wife as we attempt to make things work has been refreshing and is helping me with my self worth. I did not take the easy way out...and not because I want people to tell me how great that was...I mean besides here and my therapist nobody really knows what is going on...I did it because I cannot live in a marriage where we hold secrets. It is because I want to try, one last time, for a real connection with my wife, with this woman that I do love and once was in love with, I will not accept less and that had to start by wiping the slate clean.

 

Your MM will have his own reasons.

 

Di

 

As you know they are simply my thoughts.... nothing more.

 

And as I said in the very first post - it comes down to acceptance, regardless of why he does/doesn't do anything. My thoughts were just that and for the most part are irrelevant.

 

Everyone's perception will be different, as different as we are human.

 

You do have one thing that most MM do not and that is that you confessed without a DDay. Most including my MM would have never done it - the one thing we both agree on, now looking back - We would not have stopped without a DDay, and that while ugly is the truth.

 

 

After reading both definitions... I believe the actual martyr is, is most likely somewhere in the middle. Tami found a definition that reflected more what she was thinking and I am sure I did the same. Both are fairly extreme and personally, I know many that have "martyring" traits without the extremes of either.

 

And more important - everyone has to make choices, as Tami said that is living life. The difference is we would each make different choices given the same circumstances.

 

I am certainly not the fragile woman I was way back in July.... and the one thing I have always been in my own world is accepting of peoples choice and freedom. That won't stop here - I struggle far less now with his choices than I did originally.

 

And I have always thought out of the box.... ALWAYS, it is who I am and when deciding what was best for me, early on --- I assumed the masses were correct... It took me a while to get the legs under me and decide what works for me.

[donnamaybe]

I'm not so sure anyone could ensure that their MW/MM were in martyr mode until they refuse to see them any more and see if they pick up another OW/OM.

[2sure]

People use the martyr thing simply to justify their cheating. A WS always justifies it somehow - to themselves to make them feel entitled.

To OW/OM so they dont look like complete crap. And eventually to the BS - to say I didnt get this, so this is what I did.

 

In my relationships with Married Men - they all felt entitled, they all implied that they were the one making sacrifices at home. In fact, the bigger the hero their ego needed them to be - the more abused or neglected they depicted themselves at home.

 

Once again, I have to say that I have recently decided that Infidelity is passive aggressiveness in its most pathetic form and to me, that characteristic in a man is ...emasculating.

[Sanafa]

I do not know the stat on this. I think many MMs (I do not know if MOST do) ultimately decide to stay in the marriage because they believe the relationship can be worked on. I remember there was an MM here who stayed in his marriage because he felt he did not really have a choice( stayed because of the kids, I think)....and he never showed remorse, he detested the wife, he told the wife point blank why he was staying and he did not work on making his marriage better(he could've re-establish friendship, but no, he was just one bitter person)....now that's someone with the martyr syndrome. Someone who has surrender his life, someone who has died within himself.

 

I like a thread that will bring different thoughts, and like I said I am not sure they will be a right answer as everyone has different perceptions.

 

I just wanted to quote this, because I found it interesting. You have been on these boards far longer than I and I was surprised by your thoughts here.

 

Maybe we have different opinions on what "marriage" is....

 

But like I have said before, these boards are filled with people hanging on by a thread to do the "right" thing. Again, simply my perception and like I said to Di yesterday - I think everyone should work at something prior to "giving up" but I also think many fall in the " well it is better" ...... and sell themselves short on what it should be.

 

We can argue statistics and reasoning all day long I suppose..... but the actual information is here, everyday with people from every position hanging on and staying for a host of reasons ( I think equal to be honest.... I think just as many stay for the wrong reasons as the right reasons)

 

I am no longer "holding" on.... I have given up the idea of controlling anything ( which has been super helpful).

 

Unlike NID suggested, I am not angry --- far from that and that phase came and went with a bang. Now, I am simply trying to find the correct way to move forward that will be in a manner in which I choose.

 

If I was a BS saying I would quietly assess my situation and give him some time, people would be cheering it on.... because I am the other woman - I think most think I am living a "pipe dream".

 

No pipe dream, I simply think if I don't allow this the same time anyone would for a relationship that was love - I will regret it later.

 

I am quiet, not pulling on his emotional strings in the least and not promoting my "agenda". I am simply around and supporting while I work on me and it is a far more peaceful place than I have been in when doing things the "right" way.

 

**as for the man in your example.... not a martyr .... an arrogant ass! lol

[Sanafa]

People use the martyr thing simply to justify their cheating. A WS always justifies it somehow - to themselves to make them feel entitled.

To OW/OM so they dont look like complete crap. And eventually to the BS - to say I didnt get this, so this is what I did.

 

In my relationships with Married Men - they all felt entitled, they all implied that they were the one making sacrifices at home. In fact, the bigger the hero their ego needed them to be - the more abused or neglected they depicted themselves at home.

 

Once again, I have to say that I have recently decided that Infidelity is passive aggressiveness in its most pathetic form and to me, that characteristic in a man is ...emasculating.

 

 

You know 2sure

 

It's tough to be faced with that as honesty - but I do think many are similar to what you described.

 

As for "if they would do it again ( quote above you)

 

My MM only had one affair but over 10 years of playing with others.... just a different version, but still going out of the M