so what shall we do about shallow men?

[Jaytb]

so men=shallow, and I am a man, therefore I am shallow, right? so how can I be "unshallow"? according to some posters here, I can't form real relationships because I care only about looks (something even I didn't know about, I thought I cared about looks and personality and intelligence, but some female posters of course know me better than I know myself)

 

And remember, if you're a man, you can't date a woman whom you find attractive. That would be shallow, and you don't want to be a shallow bastard, right? RIGHT?. (ignore this if you're a woman, you can expect to marry a Brad Pitt look-alike CEO with a huge cawk. You would not be shallow at all, because of course you deserve all this in a man and more, no matter what you offer)

 

(geesh, I should suggest to W3C for a </argumentum reductio ad absurdum> tag (ok, I know, not funny.)

 

I want to know, why is it that if you show concern about your partner's weight gain, that means you're shallow and you only care about weight? seems like you care about the health issues involved with weight gain, no? I mean, I don't mind a little weight gain, but at what point does a little weight gain start to become too much? I guess 20-30 pounds is ok, but will that be it? will it end at only 30 pounds, or continue until 50, 100, 500 pounds? (lol maybe not 500) That's sort of my reasoning, and I think that's what seems to bother men about weight gain.

[New Again]

I didn't read a single post in that thread. Who cares what anonymous people think about your situation? They (most of them at least) are just trying to help. Of course people have different opinions, which are based on their own values, experiences, biases, etc.; they're only hearing one side of the story; and everyone is aware that they don't know you, your gf or anyone else involved.

 

So just chill. No need to be bitter, or get in a defensive huff when they don't see things the same way you do.

 

Do what you gotta do, you don't need anyone's approval.

[Kamille]

I'm going to assume that this is in response to something that happened in another thread.

 

Just wanted to state the obvious: this is LS, you'll get a lot of input from very different people. You choose what you want to pay attention to. I don't even need to try and find the thread to tell you I am sure a lot of women on there agreed with the premise that of course physical attraction is an important part of a relationship for most people.

 

So why did you let a minority of opinions from complete strangers get you this riled up?

[carhill]

Gouge their hearts out with the hardened steel of a D9 ripper blade and then crush their lifeless hulks with the massive treads. Yeah

 

Not the answer you were expecting, eh?

[Hkizzle]

"Huge cawk", lol!

 

What I find interesting is, whenever a woman says a man is shallow for not wanting a woman that's overweight. I'll say, please pick a man that's wimpy, unconfident and got a crap job.

 

AND THEN THEY GO QUIET!

 

Why? Why is that any different?

 

God, I hate hypocrisy.

[SoulSearch_CO]

so men=shallow, and I am a man, therefore I am shallow, right?

Dan and John = shallow

Dan and John = men

Therefore:

ALL men = shallow??????? I don't follow the logic.

No, all men are not shallow by any means. I've seen far too many examples of great men that are NOT shallow to jump to that conclusion. I'd say the ladies that think ALL men (or even MOST) are shallow have just been shown one too many examples of that. Kind of like if you asked a starving kid in Africa what a candy bar is, some women wouldn't know a good man if they saw one.

so what shall we do about shallow men?

Pitchforks and torches? Seriously - this whole thing against men being shallow jerks is getting old. It's a freaking witch hunt. Frankly, I don't know how some of the guys put up with misandry on the board that is hoisted out there by some. (But do you also notice the equal amount of misogyny thrown back? ) It's like walking on egg shells. Don't say this, don't say that - you'll be labeled.

why is it that if you show concern about your partner's weight gain, that means you're shallow and you only care about weight?

Because weight is related to looks. Therefore, all you care about is looks. (I'm trying to give you their perspective on this.) With such a huge push socially for women to be underweight to look good, it's a touchy subject. So people assume that if you notice a girl's weight gain, that's all you care about. Just as an aside, let me ask a question - do you think you'd be AS quick to notice if your girlfriend dropped TOO MUCH weight? Would you say something? What if she got upset and said that she thought she looked good and so did everybody else? Even though she may be underweight. Would you pressure her to gain?

 

I guess when it comes to weight gain, a little more, then a little more, then a little more doesn't seem like so much. It creeps up on a person. Believe me. I've lost a ton of weight over the past two years. I gained the weight starting in '03 when I got together with my now XH. Depression, stress, anxiety were key factors in my emotional eating. Really - if he had just up and told me I needed to lose weight, I would have been really angry with him. Big difference - if he had said he could tell I'm struggling emotionally, let's get me to see a counselor, that would be different. Getting fixed emotionally would have made the physical easier to deal with. It's all in the delivery.

 

But anyway - he never did say anything about my weight. I started losing it 6 months before I filed for divorce. Because I was READY to do so. Nobody told me to. Nobody was making me. I was ready to do it for me. Of course, part of me finding myself and my self-empowerment included divorcing the douchbag. Sorry for the tangent. Just trying to give you the full picture from somebody that has been through the paces when it comes to her weight. I can see both sides of it. Being healthier now and very into fitness, getting together with the guy I'm seeing, let's say we last a long time. If I start slacking on fitness, start eating garbage, I hope he cares enough about me to help me and say something. But that's because it's a 180 from where I'm at right here, right now - how he knows me when he first met me.

[Jaytb]

 

So just chill. No need to be bitter, or get in a defensive huff when they don't see things the same way you do.

 

bitter? defensive? not at all. just want some opinions

[Jaytb]

Dan and John = shallow

Dan and John = men

Therefore:

ALL men = shallow??????? I don't follow the logic.

 

It's the other way around. General to specific. Deductive reasoning. (but I say ignore the first part of the post, it's not to be taken seriously lol, hence why I admit an argumentum reductio ad absurdum (argument reduced to absurdity))

Pitchforks and torches?

 

Precisely what I was thinking. or this: http://fleshisgrass.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/eyes.gif

 

Frankly, I don't know how some of the guys put up with misandry on the board that is hoisted out there by some. (But do you also notice the equal amount of misogyny thrown back? ) It's like walking on egg shells. Don't say this, don't say that - you'll be labeled.

 

I really can't blame the women who say some of the things that they say. I mean, some men are just and you can really see why the give us such a bad name. But some posters seem so focused on the bad they don't want to hear any good.

 

Because weight is related to looks. Therefore, all you care about is looks. (I'm trying to give you their perspective on this.)

 

I know. I wish people would listen instead of jumping to pre-formed conclusions. And that goes for everyone.

 

With such a huge push socially for women to be underweight to look good, it's a touchy subject. So people assume that if you notice a girl's weight gain, that's all you care about. Just as an aside, let me ask a question - do you think you'd be AS quick to notice if your girlfriend dropped TOO MUCH weight? Would you say something? What if she got upset and said that she thought she looked good and so did everybody else? Even though she may be underweight. Would you pressure her to gain?

 

depends how much really. lose a few pounds and I wouldn't notice at all. Lose 20 or more, and she would look dead and I would easily notice, I would take her to McD's haha.

 

I guess when it comes to weight gain, a little more, then a little more, then a little more doesn't seem like so much. It creeps up on a person. Believe me. I've lost a ton of weight over the past two years. I gained the weight starting in '03 when I got together with my now XH. Depression, stress, anxiety were key factors in my emotional eating. Really - if he had just up and told me I needed to lose weight, I would have been really angry with him. Big difference - if he had said he could tell I'm struggling emotionally, let's get me to see a counselor, that would be different. Getting fixed emotionally would have made the physical easier to deal with. It's all in the delivery.

 

But anyway - he never did say anything about my weight. I started losing it 6 months before I filed for divorce. Because I was READY to do so. Nobody told me to. Nobody was making me. I was ready to do it for me. Of course, part of me finding myself and my self-empowerment included divorcing the douchbag. Sorry for the tangent. Just trying to give you the full picture from somebody that has been through the paces when it comes to her weight. I can see both sides of it. Being healthier now and very into fitness, getting together with the guy I'm seeing, let's say we last a long time. If I start slacking on fitness, start eating garbage, I hope he cares enough about me to help me and say something. But that's because it's a 180 from where I'm at right here, right now - how he knows me when he first met me.

 

thanks for this perspective. I readily admit I don't understand depression and anxiety. So I do try to be kind. If she gains 30 pounds, fine. If she keeps gaining, not ok. I would help her and everything to lose it, and I am always trying to be lenient, as in I understand weight issues are difficult to deal with. But I think t's not so much about appearance as it is about health and lifestyle.

[Jaytb]

Gouge their hearts out with the hardened steel of a D9 ripper blade and then crush their lifeless hulks with the massive treads. Yeah

 

Not the answer you were expecting, eh?

 

I was thinking something along the lines of room 101 (1984). What's in room 101? The worst thing in the world is in room 101 (a 500 pound woman in a microkini )(oh god now I'm scaring myself )

[Isolde]

To give you another perspective, I think a lot of people on this board are tired of the age/looks threads and would rather discuss how internals drive relationships. I think when all people talk about is weight, people get irritated and argumentative because there's only so much you can say about weight, in a relationship context.

[carhill]

I was thinking something along the lines of room 101 (1984). What's in room 101? The worst thing in the world is in room 101 (a 500 pound woman in a microkini )(oh god now I'm scaring myself )

I'm fairly aroused. Am I shallow?

[Zeta4PhiSius]

No- weight is ALL THAT MATTERS IN A RELATIONSHIP!!!

 

Prove to me that women aren't shallow either. They all want an adonis with a six pack. Find a lady that will give me a chance. You can't. Why? They DON'T EXIST!

 

Stop pretending that looks don't matter - it's the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS. If you're not a GQ model you can forget being in a relationship.

 

Everyone is shallow by definition and if you don't fit that mold - don't even try.

[CarrieT]

There is a profile of a frumpy-looking guy on one of my dating sites who is 56 years old. He seems to be an intelligent, home-owner, businessman with varied interests.

 

What cracks me up is that based on some of his interests, he seems like someone I could at least have an interesting conversation with.

 

EXCEPT that in his profile, he states he is only looking for women between 18 and 30 but emphatically states, "No Goldiggers."

 

Yeah, guys aren't shallow.... :laugh:

[Art_Critic]

but emphatically states, "No Goldiggers."

 

Yeah, guys aren't shallow.... :laugh:

 

So.. that eliminates you ?

[Zeta4PhiSius]

Sorry folks...didn't mean to be so harsh. I'm in *that place* tonight.

 

Argh.

[Sam Spade]

The whole shallowness debate gets ignited every time when it becomes apparent that characteristics other than person's inner worth dominate the mate selection process. Whether it's shallow or not is irrelevant. It's offensive, no matter how you justify it. That said, the sad truth is that those inner qualities simply don't come into play unless the initial screening is passed.

[Jaytb]

There is a profile of a frumpy-looking guy on one of my dating sites who is 56 years old. He seems to be an intelligent, home-owner, businessman with varied interests.

 

What cracks me up is that based on some of his interests, he seems like someone I could at least have an interesting conversation with.

 

EXCEPT that in his profile, he states he is only looking for women between 18 and 30 but emphatically states, "No Goldiggers."

 

Yeah, guys aren't shallow.... :laugh:

 

actually the guy sounds like an idiot. I would never expect a 30 year old to be comfortable dating a 56 year old, And I can't even imagine a 18 year old in that position.

[Jaytb]

I'm fairly aroused. Am I shallow?

 

Yes. Without a doubt.

 

Your room 101 will have a Playmate in it. Or possibly a dominatrix. You better fear black leather.

[gypsy_nicky]

both sexes are shallow!! Get that in your heads.

 

We are only the product of the social world we live in and that's what we will see. We do not have 'microscopic' vision or the ability of telepathy or other esp B.S. We will and always take things at face value.

 

For men this will always fall on the woman's attractiveness that's why were more forgiving of women's occupations.

 

For women, this will always fall on the man's social status and to an extent his attractiveness as well. That's why women will also be shot down for being gold diggers.

 

Both sexes have double standards and yes they do very much exist today that's why dating has become more difficult.

[CarrieT]

So.. that eliminates you ?

 

I probably have more money than he does -- and I am definitely older than he wants! He probably wants to play Daddy Games!

[SpanksTheMonkey]

Oh boy seams a full moon on love shack tonight and weight is the burning issue on all our minds lol... Its not shallow to not want to date overweight people its a personal preference for Christ sake I'm an overweight women kiddies and even I can see this fact!

 

I do how ever have probs with people hiding the fact they don't want an overweight person behind the health issues facade. Its not health issues and if you think it is ask yourself this..

 

What would be worse and make you want to dump your partner quicker if they A. gained 20-30ish pounds or B. started smoking I bet ya most will say A..

[New Again]

What would be worse and make you want to dump your partner quicker if they A. gained 20-30ish pounds or B. started smoking I bet ya most will say A..

 

I agree with your points to an extent; but (like pretty much everything in this thread, as well as the other looks/weight threads) it's a broad generalization.

 

Personally, I would dump a smoker (ew ew ew!!) way faster than someone who gained weight. Can't stand the smell/taste of a smoker (but oh yeah, it's bad for you too).

 

My last bf gained 35lbs after college - because he continued to eat the same amount, but stopped working out (he was on a sports team in college). It most definitely was a health issue, because of the kind of junk he was eating, and because he already had a heart issue. His attitude was waaaay less attractive than the weight he gained. I insisted he start eating healthier foods (not fried, etc.), tried cooking healthy meals for him, asking him to get a physical, etc. to no avail. I didn't care if he lost weight, I didn't want him to have a heart attack at 30.

 

Anyways, I don't know why I feel the need to "prove" anyone's statements are generalizations, because you all know that, and as someone else pointed out,it's all already been said.

 

Okay, I'm done. Peace!

[SoulSearch_CO]

What would be worse and make you want to dump your partner quicker if they A. gained 20-30ish pounds or B. started smoking I bet ya most will say A..

I have to agree with NewAgain - I would also dump the smoker sooner than someone that gained 20-30 lbs.

[Trialbyfire]

I agree that both genders have aspects of their laundry list, that's solely shallow. That's why you date, to find the person who works well with you. I honestly have no problems with anyone who rejects on the onset, during the dating scenario.

 

So now, we get beyond the dating process, into the relationship aspect. Short-term relationships end for all kinds of reasons. Sure, it can be painful to be rejected during this process but most people get over it pretty quickly, or at least in less than a year.

 

Now, let's move into long-term relationships of a year or greater. I honestly don't know anyone who's always positive and up, looking perfect all the time. People go through relationship and personal ups and downs. IF someone rejects another for shallow reasons, particularly after years of being together, where the other person is going through a short-term down period, that's the ultimate in shallow. Now if the person going through the down period for an extended length of time, goes into victim mode and is unwilling to do anything about it, even with the support of their SO, then they are solely responsible for themselves.

 

There are degrees of shallow. Where do you fall Jaytb?

[Jaytb]

I agree that both genders have aspects of their laundry list, that's solely shallow. That's why you date, to find the person who works well with you. I honestly have no problems with anyone who rejects on the onset, during the dating scenario.

 

So now, we get beyond the dating process, into the relationship aspect. Short-term relationships end for all kinds of reasons. Sure, it can be painful to be rejected during this process but most people get over it pretty quickly, or at least in less than a year.

 

Now, let's move into long-term relationships of a year or greater. I honestly don't know anyone who's always positive and up, looking perfect all the time. People go through relationship and personal ups and downs. IF someone rejects another for shallow reasons, particularly after years of being together, where the other person is going through a short-term down period, that's the ultimate in shallow. Now if the person going through the down period for an extended length of time, goes into victim mode and is unwilling to do anything about it, even with the support of their SO, then they are solely responsible for themselves.

 

There are degrees of shallow. Where do you fall Jaytb?

 

shallower than a puddle in the Arabian desert

 

I get that sometimes it's not easy to keep it together all the time, so of course some people gain weight in the short term. That's ok with me. But if, once your stressful period is over, is your partner going to get back to a healthy routine or just do the same things and end up gaining weight consistently over time? For me, it becomes a question of: does she put any effort into staying fit or does she do nothing about her weight?

 

Ironically my gf actually loses weight during stressful periods. I actually tell her to eat hamburgers and other fatty stuff when that happens, haha. Although I suppose those saturated fats aren't so good for you:eek: