Divorce at 30?

[Trunosc2]

Hi,

 

I've browsed through the forums and looked around and found lots of threads about separation, divorce, and so forth and tried to look at both sides of the argument but I just wanted to see if I could get people to give me an opinion on for my specific situation. It seems like it'd be easier than trying to look at other cases and change the parts that don't suit me. So here goes,

 

I've been married for 2 years and we dated for 3 years before that. Because of college, my wife and I didn't live together until after I finished school. We've been living together for a little over a year now and it seems like the way the relationship functions just isn't the way I pictured it.

 

Background info: My wife and I are a very good match as to how we feel about the world and our goals in life. I feel like she's a very good person and would be a great mother. Personality wise, we're pretty close and both relaxed BUT I'm quite independent and she's a bit clingy. I wouldn't call her jealous, but she's she doesn't like it when I socialize and especially so with attractive girls.

 

She always wants to know where I am and feels betrayed when I omit things. I know I should just be honest, but hiding things my way of feeling more independent. I haven't ever cheated on her or even come close. No emotional cheating or anything that even the strictest of Catholics would consider to be inappropriate. I have been attracted to other women, but I haven't pursued anyone because as far as I'm concerned, lust is temporary anyway. It's not a motivation in my wish to leave.

 

My reasons for wanting to go our seperate ways is because I feel like our personalities don't suit each other well for life together and the physical attraction has faded. I knew physical attraction could go away and I was ready to lead a happy domestic life, but I feel like the latter hasn't happened. I feel like my wife's presense is sometimes a weight on me and that I'd be happier as a social butterfly. We've had arguments about it and she's agreed that I can "do whatever I want" but this is with strings attached and I get a thousand questions if I ever do choose to do something on my own. I just prefer to avoid that so I don't do anything.

 

My wife is an amazing person, and I do honestly love her... but I don't think this is what I want. I think I'm just a selfish person and that I can't compromise the way she wants to. I feel like despite the fact that I would be leaving a lot behind, I'd be happier single and doing what I wanted. I'd probably eventually get into another relationship, but only after taking a long break (maybe a year) to reevaluate. I'm guessing the only type of person I could date would have to be fairly selfish themselves so that we could understand each other on that plane.

 

My dilemma is that we've just made a big move to Europe together, she's supported me with over $20,000 over the course of the last 2 years and we just found out her mom has cancer.

 

If we did divorse, I intend to take out a loan for $20,000 to return the money she's spent on me. It sounds like buying my way out even to me, but it's on my consciense and I couldn't go any other way.

 

But that's not the real issue. The fact that we've made this move away from her family, especially now that her mom is sick, makes me really sad to think what an additial grief this would add.

 

I don't know what to do. We've talked about seperating in the heat of some fights and about the problems our relationship faces. However, I think any serious mention of seperating would mean she'd tell me to leave and never come back.

 

Thats it, at least for now. I'd love any comments or questions. I might post more thoughts and details later, but I'm mentally exhaused about thinking about this right now thought it does feel better getting it out.

[Trunosc2]

I guess to add what I thought it would be like.

 

I thought my wife would allow our relationship to function like in college. At that time, she would ask where I went and who with and I would honestly tell her the run down, but I was allowed to be independent and make my own friends and we'd see each other 3 or 4 times a week and hang out on the weekends. I knew we'd spend more time together if we lived together, but I thought we'd continue living our own lives and have our lives together. I never realized she wanted one life together, and that friends would be mutual, and that all other relationships would be relegaded to secondary status. I know that many people think that it's probably the right way to do it, but I just never pictured it that way. I always thought we'd have our relationship and do everything for each other, but that our outside relatioships would be allowed to grow alongside our marriage.

[Chrome Barracuda]

if you love her...then stay with her... it doesnt sound like you want a divorce at all. She has been with you from jump street, and women like this are very hard to find. You dont want to divorce her because she's clingly. that isnt a great reason. For all intents and purposes you dont even have a case for a divorce!

[Trunosc2]

if you love her...then stay with her... it doesnt sound like you want a divorce at all. She has been with you from jump street, and women like this are very hard to find. You dont want to divorce her because she's clingly. that isnt a great reason. For all intents and purposes you dont even have a case for a divorce!

 

Except that I'm not happy. I like her as a person but I'm not happy when I'm with her.

 

I realize happiness is hard to define and really subjective, based on mood, etc. But especially since you disagree, I want to hear your opinion on the subject.

 

How do you love the person but for whatever reason, aren't happy when they're around. How do you reconsile that?

[ReturnToSender]

Are you an aquarius by any chance? The whole separate lives together thing sounds sooo familiar...hah! Well, my take on it is..its only been a year and now being married is a transition from the life you lived beforehand. Now that youre living together and closer than ever before, things about both of you are going to come up.

 

Thing is...how both of you are able to compromise and make it work..thats going to take some time...everything inst instantaneous. You had said,..you didnt realize shed want one life together..thats sort of what marriage is about...two become one. But all the same...I do believe that both should keep what makes them individuals, what made them the person to fall in love with to begin with...in a big way, I think thats why a marriage that gets stale does so...they lose the part of themselves that made them who they are, and created the spark to begin with.

 

Anyway...Id say being open to compromise and keeping communication open is the key here for your marriage. Youre married now, you cannot be free as a bird to do what you want as you want whenever you want...at the same time, that free spirit is what she was attracted to in some way...if that dies, then what then of her feelings to you? So she also needs to make compromises...

[trueblue72ny]

I guess to add what I thought it would be like.

 

I thought my wife would allow our relationship to function like in college. At that time, she would ask where I went and who with and I would honestly tell her the run down, but I was allowed to be independent and make my own friends and we'd see each other 3 or 4 times a week and hang out on the weekends. I knew we'd spend more time together if we lived together, but I thought we'd continue living our own lives and have our lives together. I never realized she wanted one life together, and that friends would be mutual, and that all other relationships would be relegaded to secondary status. I know that many people think that it's probably the right way to do it, but I just never pictured it that way. I always thought we'd have our relationship and do everything for each other, but that our outside relatioships would be allowed to grow alongside our marriage.

 

have you told her what you said here? i know functioning as a unit is important, but maybe its also healthy to have a little bit of your own time as well. there is no reason to be shoved up each others you know what 24/7. in fact it seems to be driving you away because she doesnt give you some space. i dont see why there should be any issues if there is trust. you obviously have no intentions to be involved with other woman.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Except that I'm not happy. I like her as a person but I'm not happy when I'm with her.

 

I realize happiness is hard to define and really subjective, based on mood, etc. But especially since you disagree, I want to hear your opinion on the subject.

 

How do you love the person but for whatever reason, aren't happy when they're around. How do you reconsile that?

 

You have to love yourself on the inside first... deep and sincerly. That way you can give your love to her. Your probably feeling a little detached. No one said marriage would be a walk in the park. Is she meeting your emotional and physical needs? That could be helped too. She might be a little needy but seriously mayn are you gonna tell me that is your reasons for divorce, or do you want out of the marriage because you want to be with someone else.

 

Marriages always dont have that insane love feeling. sometimes it matures into this ebb and flow of marriage, nice and steady. It's not always gonna be a rush.

 

Alot of people dont know that. Also realize that a person can only add to your happiness but not make you happy altogether, that must be made for yourself.

[Trunosc2]

You had said,..you didnt realize shed want one life together..thats sort of what marriage is about...two become one. But all the same...I do believe that both should keep what makes them individuals, what made them the person to fall in love with to begin with...in a big way, I think thats why a marriage that gets stale does so...they lose the part of themselves that made them who they are, and created the spark to begin with.

 

You know, I feel like this is really where you hit the nail on the head. Thanks so much for the perspective.

 

I've really sort of tried to figure out how it's possible that this person who at one time I trusted with all my deepest secrets is someone who I feel I can't share information with anymore. I've shared more personal information with complete strangers than with her in the last 2 months.

 

After reading this, I've realized, I'm not the same person... and I'm trying to be the person she wants (or at least I think she wants). I just feel lost, but I don't know if it's possible to go back now. I've been trained to avoid doing things and hide the things I do do and even when we talked and I was trying to be true to myself I couldn't just do it. I can't go for coffee with a friend just because, since I still feel like I'm forbidden. And that's just the beginging of it, I can't imagine being the person I was before.

 

PS - I'm a pisces

[ryepatch]

wow, your relationship with your wife sounds so much like mine, excpt reversed. we are both 30, and though we've lived together 9.5 years, we started to have the same problem you're having in the last year or so. i'm going to comment in more detail later--if i don't, bug me on my thread--but i just want to say i'm in your wife's position, and i might be able to help you understand how she's feeling and vice versa. (complicating factor in my situation is that my wife most likely has a mood disorder.)

 

how long have you been feeling this way? have you explained your feelings in real detail to her? if she has anxiety about not being able to trust you, then she will clamp down. are you guys in marital counseling?

[Trunosc2]

Sure, I'd be glad to discuss it and see if we can help each other.

 

1) I've been feeling like this for the last 8 months or so.

2) Not to the smallest detail about how leaving and saying "I don't enjoy your company" because I feel that's almost cruel. But everything I've brought up in some sense by telling her how I feel about certain aspects of our relationship. I've even talked about taking a break, moving out for a month or so, but she doesn't think it's an option and a week later things are back to how they were.

3)No counseling and I don't think either of us would go for it honestly.

[2.50 a gallon]

I married a catholic girl in a protestant church, but prior to the marriage we did take marriage classes from the local catholic church.

 

The vow "forsaking all others" was heavily hit upon. Socializing with other attractive women was not part of the equation. It was explained that this was a form of adultery, the father who talked to us said this was cheating on the marriage.

 

You say she is clingy. Sounds reasonable to me, her spouse is cheating on her. You have to be totally transparent, and until this crisis is over, you need to come home every night. It you go out, she goes with, or you do not go.

 

How can she compete? The attractive girls you socialize with are all dolled and dressed to attract males. Sure your wife can do the same, but you also see her when she first wakes up, she can't be dressed sexily all of the time. Kind of hard to clean house in high heals and a short skirt

 

The $20,000 investment in your life is a lot of money. And within a year you are thinking of divorce. Strictly from a business point of view it is in her best interest to keep an eye on her investment. Were I in her shoes I would try to hire a P.I. It is strictly business.

 

I know I do not know all of the facts, but there is a chance that some prosecuting attorney might consider some of you actions as fraud. It is not beyond the pale, that you could find yourself socializing in an all tattoed male society.

 

You agree you are selfish, that is not love.

[acrossthemiles]

The $20,000 investment in your life is a lot of money. And within a year you are thinking of divorce. Strictly from a business point of view it is in her best interest to keep an eye on her investment. Where I in her shoes I would try to hire a P.I. It is strictly business.

 

I know I do not know all of the facts, but there is a chance that some prosecuting attorney might consider some of you actions as fraud. It is not beyond the pale, that you could find yourself socializing in an all tattoed male society.

 

You agree you are selfish, that is not love.

I know I'm a new poster, so I don't mean to poke my nose in where I'm not welcome, but this seems a bit OTT to me. The original poster said nothing about the circumstances in which he's socializing - perhaps the other women are long-time friends, or coworkers. As for hiring a PI and charging fraud...I would say at least 90% of heterosexual married guys occasionally find other women attractive, no matter how in love or devoted they are to their wives. Even MY husband does a double-take if he sees Monica Bellucci on a magazine cover. I would never in a million years consider that worthy of jealousy, much less trying to get him arrested over it.

 

Out of curiosity 2.50 a gallon - are you a prosecuting attorney yourself? Or have you just recently been cheated on? You seem unusually hostile towards a situation which seems fairly common to me.

[sb129]

I am curious as to why you made the big move to Europe even though you have been feeling this way for over 8 months.

 

A big move like that is also going to be quite a test to your marriage, and it may have compounded her feelings of insecurity if she is away from her family and friends.

 

I can understand your "why can't it be like when we were in college", but life and marriages generally aren't like that.

We mature and grow, and most of us end up with more responsibilities.

If our R/ marriage doesn't adapt to that too, we end up in trouble.

 

Its interesting that you say your W and you share similar goals and outlook on life- do you really?

You say you see yourself heading towards a more selfish life, whereas I assume (apologies if this is incorrect) she would like to start thinking about settling down more and may be interested in having a family.

 

Personally- my H and I were very much into partying and travelling when we met. We shared the same goals inasmuch as we knew that lifestyle couldn't last forever, and that we wanted a family one day.

 

Our life together now is pretty laid back, we have a house and a dog, and we are expecting a baby. VERY different to when we met, but it works for us both.

 

If you and your W aren't on the same page as to where your marriage is heading, then neither of you are going to end up feeling fulfilled.

 

Communication is so important- you are already "omitting" to tell her things, which is going to add to her feelings of insecurity- its a vicious circle.

You need to be honest and talk to her- you owe it to her to try and work it out, and marriage is ALL about compromise, you never know, there may be a compromise that the two of you can work out to make things work.

[sb129]

PS- You took the vows and got married.

Don't run at the first sign of things not being 100% perfect- that is not what marriage is about.

 

Its about sticking around and growing together. You owe it to your wife to at least TRY to make things work. At the moment, you sound like you just want out and aren't open to the possibility of working on it.

[2.50 a gallon]

acrosstemiles

 

Simply a reality check

 

He claims he is not cheating according to the catholic church, I disagreed

 

The man is saying we're just friends, read the threads on how often that line is used by the cheating spouse, along with you're too clingy, jealous, all red flags

 

Me, I was player, married, she cheated, I tossed her to the curb. It was the best thing that ever happened to me. First off I got a new sex life.

 

I was a player before I met my wife and went right back to the game.

 

As a player, here is what I see he is doing. He might not be getting their phone numbers, he might not be making dates, but he is preparing for it.

 

As for my lovers, I am very picky, in physical attractiveness. One of my favorite ploys when I met a lady of the critera, say as a cashier was to be

friendly with her. Not press her for a date. Just reach a place where she recognized me and liked me for being nice to her. I might have a dozen or more friends like that, for a year or more, it was a number game, and eventually I would get a date with one of them.

 

Did it work, that is how I met my current GF. Coming up on 14 years with her. She is the love of my life, very happy, very fulfilling. After 14 years she is still eye candy to me and she is a grandmother of a teenager

[2.50 a gallon]

No I was never a prosecuter, nor a lawyer

 

However I did work for the county court system for over 3 years, and most of the divorce judgments and most of the criminal judgments passed over my desk.

 

I was also on the county attorneys softball team. Other than 3 of us the whole team were prosecuters, including the top dog, the county attorney. He was preparing to move on to run for attorney general of the state, which he did do and served 2 terms. We also were friendly enough to go on a back packing trip

 

Another associate at the time, was a lady who had dropped out of college to support her H through med school. She also used some of her inheritance to maintain the household. He got his residency, started a practise, and promptly filed for divorce to marry his younger assistant. She cried foul and he soon found that he also needed to hire a criminal attorney as the prosecuters were preparing to indict him for fraud. He then signed a propety settlement agreement giving her 40% of all of his future earnings, and the charge were never filed.

 

As I pointed out $20,000 is a large investment, protecting her investment is strictly business.

[stace79]

I guess to add what I thought it would be like.

 

I thought my wife would allow our relationship to function like in college. At that time, she would ask where I went and who with and I would honestly tell her the run down, but I was allowed to be independent and make my own friends and we'd see each other 3 or 4 times a week and hang out on the weekends. I knew we'd spend more time together if we lived together, but I thought we'd continue living our own lives and have our lives together. I never realized she wanted one life together, and that friends would be mutual, and that all other relationships would be relegaded to secondary status. I know that many people think that it's probably the right way to do it, but I just never pictured it that way. I always thought we'd have our relationship and do everything for each other, but that our outside relatioships would be allowed to grow alongside our marriage.

 

Are you serious? This is what you really think marriage is about? Why did you even propose?

 

You should most definitely divorce her and let her find a real man who truly understands what a marriage and a commitment are.

 

What kind of marriage ceremony did you have? I mean, I'm pretty sure the standard language includes something about forsaking all others, two lives becoming one, til death do us part, and so on.

 

You sound like you are 18, not 30. Sorry if I am harsh, but it sounds like you never really wanted a marriage to begin with.

[stace79]

You know, I feel like this is really where you hit the nail on the head. Thanks so much for the perspective.

 

I've really sort of tried to figure out how it's possible that this person who at one time I trusted with all my deepest secrets is someone who I feel I can't share information with anymore. I've shared more personal information with complete strangers than with her in the last 2 months.

 

After reading this, I've realized, I'm not the same person... and I'm trying to be the person she wants (or at least I think she wants). I just feel lost, but I don't know if it's possible to go back now. I've been trained to avoid doing things and hide the things I do do and even when we talked and I was trying to be true to myself I couldn't just do it. I can't go for coffee with a friend just because, since I still feel like I'm forbidden. And that's just the beginging of it, I can't imagine being the person I was before.

 

PS - I'm a pisces

 

I'm sure it's not that you can't go get coffee with a friend -- based on your other posts, it's that you can't go get coffee with some hot woman you find extremely attractive. There is a difference, and you are painting a different story here than on the other forum topics.

 

Let's call a spade a spade, shall we? You want to be able to hang out with attractive women, which you admit to your wife, and then you wonder why she doesn't trust you? Gee...

[stace79]

I know I'm a new poster, so I don't mean to poke my nose in where I'm not welcome, but this seems a bit OTT to me. The original poster said nothing about the circumstances in which he's socializing - perhaps the other women are long-time friends, or coworkers. As for hiring a PI and charging fraud...I would say at least 90% of heterosexual married guys occasionally find other women attractive, no matter how in love or devoted they are to their wives. Even MY husband does a double-take if he sees Monica Bellucci on a magazine cover. I would never in a million years consider that worthy of jealousy, much less trying to get him arrested over it.

 

Out of curiosity 2.50 a gallon - are you a prosecuting attorney yourself? Or have you just recently been cheated on? You seem unusually hostile towards a situation which seems fairly common to me.

 

He didn't mention the other women he's hanging out with in THIS thread, but he posted a whole other thread about "picking a side" whether he should be able to have attractive female friends or not, and in it he admitted to not only having many female friends to whom he is attracted but also TELLING his wife that he's attracted to them! And he wonders why she might be clingy and insecure!

[hopeful1980]

I don't think this situation warrents a divorce. You thought things would stay the same, but they didn't. Your wife probably thought things would change, but to her they have stayed the same. Neither one of you is right or wrong, you just had different expectations of what the marriage was going to be. I think you can get back on track.

 

Just as you need to feel independent, she needs reassurance. Your independence probably makes her feel insecure. When my husband does that to me, it feels like he doesn't want me to be a part of his life. It's hurtful. Even though you want your independence, you should try to make your wife feel secure like she is your #1 priority. She probably feels as though your outside life is more important to you than your life with her. If she felt like she was most important to you, she probably wouldn't be interested so much in the things you do outside of you and her.

[Phedre]

Dude seriously, just admit that this whole marriage gig isn't what you thought it was going to be and leave. Have the common deceny to tell her that it is all on you, because it is, so she doesn't waste time wondering what 'she could have done better.' You do not want to be married, plain and simple. You want the validation and 'rush' you get from your 'friends' and probably from all the other random girls you cross the line with (such as the cashier one earlier poster talked about from his own 'player' days). You need to own up to this and let your wife know so she can get over you and find someone who wants to be married. You want to do whatever you want without having to be consider anyone else. And sure, you love your wife, so if she is willing to hang around while you do whatever you want with whoever you want then you will keep her around.. eventually you might hit a dry spell with your friends and need your wife to boost your ego, have sex with you or give you large amounts of money, whatever. But you do not want the same kind of life and do not love your wife the way you, I'm assuming, once thought you did when you married her. Btw, life as a singe person is going to be awesome for a while.. no one to answer to, no nagging or guilt trips, no ones hurt feelings to nurse, no more being worried if you are going to get caught cheating.. but the shine is going to wear off and one day you are going to find yourself alone and old and with none of the cashier's looking your way anymore. You are going to regret leaving your wife. ... but hey man, it is all up to you... just at least be decent, like the kind of decent you would be to a dog because surely your wife deserves at least that, and tell her what is going on.

[ryepatch]

wow, a lot of conflicting opinions on here. like i said before, i was in your wife's situation. A) i agree with the people on here that say 2 become 1, and married people should be going out together as much as possible, not having different social lives. until recently, my wife would have agreed with me. but B) my wife, after she left, said i was too controlling for trying to negotiate with her when she might go out with coffee for a friend and when she might be home. (we share a car, that's a big part of it.) and somehow she convinced all our friends of this.

 

so i've been trying really hard to understand her perspective.

 

but was it just an excuse for her to leave?

 

trunosc, is this just an excuse for you to leave? have you tried to compromise with her and accept limits, but still push for some independence?

 

and why would neither of you go to counseling? your wife wants this to work, right? why wouldn't she want to go to counseling?

 

i'm not totally sure you want to be married. but you did make a serious, lifelong commitment to her. i really think you ought to make sure there's no way in hell the two of you can be happy together before you leave!

 

take a look at my thread. the last page or two someone asked me where my wife's anger was coming from, i talked about her feeling i was too controlling some. i'd like to know what you think, and you should see how someone in my position feels.