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I hate it when people say "Your bad attitude is the reason why you can't get women"

OpenGL

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OpenGL Established Member

OpenGL

Posted
Posted

I'm talking in generalities, not specifically calling out anybody on this board for saying this (although I'm sure it's been said). So don't take personal offense.

 

With that said, I'd have to say this is one of the dumbest things I read over and over again on the internet on various message boards, along with the "you'll meet someone when you least expect it" line. Very often you'll see someone complaining about their love life, seeminly being bummed or having a bad attitude towards women from constantly being rejected or looked over. This line is inevitably thrown out there, usually by women in some kind of self defense of their gender.

 

Well, as someone who has suffered from this (having a bad attitude towards women from not getting women, although I admit my problems with women not are not because of this), I just thought I needed to get the message out once and for all. Again, this post is not about me, but I'm talking in generalities of what I observe from others. Personal attacks against me is irrelevant to the argument I'm presenting

 

STOP SAYING THIS, WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS UNINTELLIGENT AND MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.

 

That "line" is a cause and effect logically fallacy.

 

You have cause and effect completely backwards. The cause comes before the effect. You are taking the effect, and saying it's the reason for the cause.

 

For example:

 

The Cause - Can't get women

The effect - Bad attitude towards women

 

=> This is correct! <=

 

But what you are saying:

 

The Cause - Bad attitude towards women

The Effect - Can't get women

 

=> Wrong! How would you get develop a bad attitude about not getting women, before you started to not get women? <=

 

 

The only conclusion or defense you can mount is that the reason why they aren't getting women currently is because of the bad attitude they have developed. That would make a bit more sense, but is still wrong because that obviously wasn't the reason why they weren't getting women before, so their bad attitude is now logically taken out of the context as to why they aren't getting women. As in, telling them to get rid of their bad attitude towards women does not help them at all.

northstar1 Established Member

northstar1

Posted
Posted
I'm talking in generalities, not specifically calling out anybody on this board for saying this (although I'm sure it's been said). So don't take personal offense.

 

With that said, I'd have to say this is one of the dumbest things I read over and over again on the internet on various message boards, along with the "you'll meet someone when you least expect it" line. Very often you'll see someone complaining about their love life, seeminly being bummed or having a bad attitude towards women from constantly being rejected or looked over. This line is inevitably thrown out there, usually by women in some kind of self defense of their gender.

 

Well, as someone who has suffered from this (having a bad attitude towards women from not getting women, although I admit my problems with women not are not because of this), I just thought I needed to get the message out once and for all. Again, this post is not about me, but I'm talking in generalities of what I observe from others. Personal attacks against me is irrelevant to the argument I'm presenting

 

STOP SAYING THIS, WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS UNINTELLIGENT AND MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.

 

That "line" is a cause and effect logically fallacy.

 

You have cause and effect completely backwards. The cause comes before the effect. You are taking the effect, and saying it's the reason for the cause.

 

For example:

 

The Cause - Can't get women

The effect - Bad attitude towards women

 

=> This is correct! <=

 

But what you are saying:

 

The Cause - Bad attitude towards women

The Effect - Can't get women

 

=> Wrong! How would you get develop a bad attitude about not getting women, before you started to not get women? <=

 

 

The only conclusion or defense you can mount is that the reason why they aren't getting women currently is because of the bad attitude they have developed. That would make a bit more sense, but is still wrong because that obviously wasn't the reason why they weren't getting women before, so their bad attitude is now logically taken out of the context as to why they aren't getting women. As in, telling them to get rid of their bad attitude towards women does not help them at all.

 

What if your bad attitude doesn't stem from 'not getting women' but because of other factors in your life?

  • Author
OpenGL Established Member

OpenGL

Posted
  • Author
Posted
What if your bad attitude doesn't stem from 'not getting women' but because of other factors in your life?

 

If we're just going to speculate random reasons why you're not getting women, why not also assume the guy is a fat ass bum that lives in his parent's basement?

 

If he is a natural misogynist, then yes, that's a problem, and my post doesn't apply to them.

 

My point was for people who respond to content of the post, as in you read the post and see their bad attitude towards women from their post and conclude thats why they don't get women.

Sam Spade Established Member

Sam Spade

Posted
Posted
What if your bad attitude doesn't stem from 'not getting women' but because of other factors in your life?

 

This is an alternative explanation that should be kept in mind. That said, the OP has a point. (Moreover, don't forget that you can get women just fine with not-so-great attitudes towards them, like yours truly here, thank you very much ;).)

 

But more to the point, it is true that it is sickening to hear the same generalities masked like sage advice over. and OVER. again. While the sad reality is simply that individuality of any kind stacks the odds of finding a partner against you. If you do not conform to a pretty rigid general dating expectations, you are screwed. You can adjust, or remain bitter. Every once in a while you will get lucky and will encounter a genuine human being, but even then it is probably not a good idea to let your guard down completely.

 

Another favorite: "When you meet the right person, you just KNOW". :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Kamille Established Member

Kamille

Posted
Posted

But what if it's more then a cause and effect and more like a downward spiral?

 

cause : can't get woman

effect: bad attitude

effect: can't get woman

 

And I'm only partly being funny here. My point is that developping a bad attitude towards the other gender certainly isn't the best way to go about dating.

 

I see it work the other way too.

 

A woman gets hurt by a guy so she develops all these defense mechanism, and all these ideas about men "being this way and that way (only looking for one thing, liking a chase, etc). she then ends up in a vicious circle of never really meeting a genuine guy because she puts up a front, but that only prompts her to put up an even bigger front.

Enema Established Member

Enema

Posted
Posted

The past is the past.

 

Focus on today.

 

Today you have a bad attitude and that's why you can't get women.

Trialbyfire Established Member

Trialbyfire

Posted
Posted

Of the male members (that sounds so wrong each time I post it) that I've gotten to know a little better on LS, most aren't dating due to a bad attitude towards women, relationships or both. It's not that they lack skills, looks, intelligence, etc. It's that they don't even try, fearing rejection before it happens.

 

So...

 

A few rejections or bad relationship = bad attitude towards women/relationships = don't even try and then never get women.

ReturnToSender Established Member

ReturnToSender

Posted
Posted
But what if it's more then a cause and effect and more like a downward spiral?

 

cause : can't get woman

effect: bad attitude

effect: can't get woman

 

And I'm only partly being funny here. My point is that developping a bad attitude towards the other gender certainly isn't the best way to go about dating.

 

I see it work the other way too.

 

A woman gets hurt by a guy so she develops all these defense mechanism, and all these ideas about men "being this way and that way (only looking for one thing, liking a chase, etc). she then ends up in a vicious circle of never really meeting a genuine guy because she puts up a front, but that only prompts her to put up an even bigger front.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with this...especially the downward spiral part.

carhill Established Member

carhill

Posted
Posted

OP, IMO, an emotionally healthy person will recognize the past, learn from the past and acknowledge the past, but the past will not rule them.

 

Apply as appropriate to your circumstances....

 

As a point of comparison, I suffered much rejection and didn't have sex until I was 35. Depression almost got me at one point. Was that women's responsibility? No, it was mine. 15 years later, going through a divorce, I'm drawing on those experiences to retain a positive outlook. Women aren't evil, mostly ;)

WineCountry Established Member

WineCountry

Posted
Posted
I'm talking in generalities, not specifically calling out anybody on this board for saying this (although I'm sure it's been said). So don't take personal offense.

 

With that said, I'd have to say this is one of the dumbest things I read over and over again on the internet on various message boards, along with the "you'll meet someone when you least expect it" line. Very often you'll see someone complaining about their love life, seeminly being bummed or having a bad attitude towards women from constantly being rejected or looked over. This line is inevitably thrown out there, usually by women in some kind of self defense of their gender.

 

Well, as someone who has suffered from this (having a bad attitude towards women from not getting women, although I admit my problems with women not are not because of this), I just thought I needed to get the message out once and for all. Again, this post is not about me, but I'm talking in generalities of what I observe from others. Personal attacks against me is irrelevant to the argument I'm presenting

 

STOP SAYING THIS, WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS UNINTELLIGENT AND MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.

 

That "line" is a cause and effect logically fallacy.

 

You have cause and effect completely backwards. The cause comes before the effect. You are taking the effect, and saying it's the reason for the cause.

 

For example:

 

The Cause - Can't get women

The effect - Bad attitude towards women

 

=> This is correct! <=

 

But what you are saying:

 

The Cause - Bad attitude towards women

The Effect - Can't get women

 

=> Wrong! How would you get develop a bad attitude about not getting women, before you started to not get women? <=

 

 

The only conclusion or defense you can mount is that the reason why they aren't getting women currently is because of the bad attitude they have developed. That would make a bit more sense, but is still wrong because that obviously wasn't the reason why they weren't getting women before, so their bad attitude is now logically taken out of the context as to why they aren't getting women. As in, telling them to get rid of their bad attitude towards women does not help them at all.

 

 

I absolutely get what you are trying to say, and I agree. As a woman, we hear the same thing. It gets old. :rolleyes:

WineCountry Established Member

WineCountry

Posted
Posted
Of the male members (that sounds so wrong each time I post it) that I've gotten to know a little better on LS, most aren't dating due to a bad attitude towards women, relationships or both. It's not that they lack skills, looks, intelligence, etc. It's that they don't even try, fearing rejection before it happens.

 

So...

 

A few rejections or bad relationship = bad attitude towards women/relationships = don't even try and then never get women.

 

 

Umm..i dont know. That sounds kinda like what the OP was saying. That they have bad attitudes, so they dont get women. What the OP was saying is, what was going on with these men BEFORE they kept having a hard time getting women? The constant rejection might have MADE them get a bad attitude, but before the constant rejection, what was the issue when they were more optimistic?

When they were trying for women, and kept getting shot down?

 

It's not that they lack skills, looks, intelligence, etc

 

How do you know that? I mean, nothing against these men. Or women, cause the same thing happens to us. I certainly am not putting these guys, or the OP down. But, I think Sam Spade hit the nail on the head when he said that like it or not, there are some strict "standards" or "requirements" that go on within the dating world. And if you dont fit into those certain "standards" through no fault of your own (looks, skills..fill in the blanks) then you are going to have a harder time getting women. Or men.

 

And not necessarily YOU, TBF..but i dont know why some people just dont want to accept that the world is what it is. Sometimes if you dont have the looks, skills, the right zip code..whatever it is just harder for you. In the real world, you see this all the time. Just watch people out at functions..bars..weddings..parties..grocery stores..etc. If only you could be a fly on the wall and hear comments as men and women judge each other, and talk about who they want to get with, and who they wouldnt give the time of day. But, for some reason, when folks get on a message board, they like to act like that never happens. Oh..people are THAT shallow..God no. Uh huh.

 

However, this doesnt mean that one should give up on men..or women. But, I can understand how that can make them feel.

  • Author
OpenGL Established Member

OpenGL

Posted
  • Author
Posted
And not necessarily YOU, TBF..but i dont know why some people just dont want to accept that the world is what it is. Sometimes if you dont have the looks, skills, the right zip code..whatever it is just harder for you. In the real world, you see this all the time. Just watch people out at functions..bars..weddings..parties..grocery stores..etc. If only you could be a fly on the wall and hear comments as men and women judge each other, and talk about who they want to get with, and who they wouldnt give the time of day. But, for some reason, when folks get on a message board, they like to act like that never happens. Oh..people are THAT shallow..God no. Uh huh.

 

Wow, you are the most logical and truthful woman I have ever seen post on a forum. You seem to have a very good grasp on reality and don't live in a fantasy world like most people on forums do. Very refreshing to see that once in awhile and everything you said was spot on.

bhweller Established Member

bhweller

Posted
Posted

the op needs to get some action, and he probably doesn't make enough tries. You need to contact a lot of women, way more than you think should be necessary. The uglier/dorkier/less confident you are, the more attempts you will need. Thats why people who take care of themselves(and like themselves) have it easier. Also , don't be so stuck on yourself that you think you need to date models because you don't. you just need to find a woman that is willing. That may sound simple or sleazy, but it sure as hell is true if you haven 't been laid in a couple of months.

WineCountry Established Member

WineCountry

Posted
Posted
Wow, you are the most logical and truthful woman I have ever seen post on a forum. You seem to have a very good grasp on reality and don't live in a fantasy world like most people on forums do. Very refreshing to see that once in awhile and everything you said was spot on.

 

 

<blush> Gosh thanks. LOL Usually people dont like my straight forwardness. Thanks for being willing to hear it. :)

Trialbyfire Established Member

Trialbyfire

Posted
Posted

WineCountry, can you give me one practical reason why it's worthwhile to have a bad attitude towards the opposite gender?

Hkizzle Established Member

Hkizzle

Posted
Posted

OP I see where you're coming from.

 

BUT there's also such a thing as a negative feedback loop where:

 

Cant get women > Bad attitudes towards women > Even less chances of getting women.

 

 

Having said all that, I find it funny people keep saying, your bad attitude is the reason you can't get women. But if I said something like your laziness and overweight condition is the reason you can't get men, you'll get flamed.

 

People have rose tinted glasses where they can accept that human beings will judge attitues but not looks? Kidding me?

BUENG1 Established Member

BUENG1

Posted
Posted
I'm talking in generalities, not specifically calling out anybody on this board for saying this (although I'm sure it's been said). So don't take personal offense.

 

With that said, I'd have to say this is one of the dumbest things I read over and over again on the internet on various message boards, along with the "you'll meet someone when you least expect it" line. Very often you'll see someone complaining about their love life, seeminly being bummed or having a bad attitude towards women from constantly being rejected or looked over. This line is inevitably thrown out there, usually by women in some kind of self defense of their gender.

 

Well, as someone who has suffered from this (having a bad attitude towards women from not getting women, although I admit my problems with women not are not because of this), I just thought I needed to get the message out once and for all. Again, this post is not about me, but I'm talking in generalities of what I observe from others. Personal attacks against me is irrelevant to the argument I'm presenting

 

STOP SAYING THIS, WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS UNINTELLIGENT AND MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.

 

That "line" is a cause and effect logically fallacy.

 

You have cause and effect completely backwards. The cause comes before the effect. You are taking the effect, and saying it's the reason for the cause.

 

For example:

 

The Cause - Can't get women

The effect - Bad attitude towards women

 

=> This is correct! <=

 

But what you are saying:

 

The Cause - Bad attitude towards women

The Effect - Can't get women

 

=> Wrong! How would you get develop a bad attitude about not getting women, before you started to not get women? <=

 

 

The only conclusion or defense you can mount is that the reason why they aren't getting women currently is because of the bad attitude they have developed. That would make a bit more sense, but is still wrong because that obviously wasn't the reason why they weren't getting women before, so their bad attitude is now logically taken out of the context as to why they aren't getting women. As in, telling them to get rid of their bad attitude towards women does not help them at all.

 

Well I agree and disagree with this. First I think alot of times(maybe even the majority) when someone says things like you described(ie you don't get women because you hate them) the purpose isn't really constructive advice it is an attack because of things in their post that are offensive(and this is just human nature I think). I'm sure many will disagree but thats how I see things when reading on here.

 

But other than that I think its true that a bad attitude is a detriment to having dating life success. Whether the chicken or the egg came first so to speak isn't as important as the result. If you have negative attitude towards the opposite sex it will hamper your dating life. Sure thats not the only thing, and maybe it isn't the most important, but it can and is surely a negative factor.

WineCountry Established Member

WineCountry

Posted
Posted
the op needs to get some action, and he probably doesn't make enough tries. You need to contact a lot of women, way more than you think should be necessary. The uglier/dorkier/less confident you are, the more attempts you will need. Thats why people who take care of themselves(and like themselves) have it easier. Also , don't be so stuck on yourself that you think you need to date models because you don't. you just need to find a woman that is willing. That may sound simple or sleazy, but it sure as hell is true if you haven 't been laid in a couple of months.

 

 

I am not the OP. But, are you assuming that the men who feel the same way he does do NOT take care of themselves or like themselves?

thats a bit presumptious, dont ya think?

 

WHY do you assume this? So, lets say the short, fat, balding guy who plays George on Seinfield was actually slimmer and worked out, but was still short, bald and still had the same face (things he CANT change)And lets assume he has good hygiene, of course.

 

And let's assume that Matt Damon was also a working stiff like us. We will keep Matt Damon looking the same way he does now, body and all.

 

So, Matt and George go out and try to meet women. Both keep themselves up, like themselves, have nice personalities, and smell good.

 

Who will attract more women, thus having more options?? Yeah..Matt Damon will. Hands down.

 

The point is, THAT IS JUST THE WAY IT IS. Sometimes people do things that hurt their chances of finding someone..of course. BUT..other times you just cant change the hand life has dealt you. And that hand you were dealt WILL affect your success with the opposite sex, even if some other things like the fact you work hard and are a nice person..are equal.

 

This goes on every single day in the world. WHY do people deny this?

bhweller Established Member

bhweller

Posted
Posted

people underestimate how much persistence it can take to get a woman if you are not fitting into any attractive stereotype. That leads to anger and frustration, and that leads to putting out a bad vibe. Of course the anger and frustration is based on ego and ignorance, so its not necessary.

Island Girl Established Member

Island Girl

Posted
Posted

Hmmm. I think people who would fall into the perspective that all women suck and are horrible because I haven't found one that would date me says quite a lot about that person to begin with.

 

Their attitude in general must be quite negative to leap to that conclusion.

 

I am not drawn to negativity. I do not know many people who are.

Of course it does come out in how one talks or what they say. It is in their general carriage and nature.

 

I would think it would just tunnel in on itself and become more narrow and focused. And that is what I see with certain posters here who bash women and hate them for every little thing they can pin on them. All the while they take no responsibility for their own situation or their own lives.

 

I also agree with another poster who said it gets very tiring. :sick:

WineCountry Established Member

WineCountry

Posted
Posted
OP I see where you're coming from.

 

BUT there's also such a thing as a negative feedback loop where:

 

Cant get women > Bad attitudes towards women > Even less chances of getting women.

 

 

Having said all that, I find it funny people keep saying, your bad attitude is the reason you can't get women. But if I said something like your laziness and overweight condition is the reason you can't get men, you'll get flamed.

 

People have rose tinted glasses where they can accept that human beings will judge attitues but not looks? Kidding me?

 

 

You make a good point there. But, in order for people to find out someones attitude SUCKS, they have to give them a little bit of attention or opportunity for the attitude to show. Yeah, maybe SOMETIMES they are finding this out just by the way the guys walks up and says..hi..can i buy you a drink? :rolleyes:

 

But, usually the guy isnt even getting the full attention of the woman because she has already dismissed him in her mind. Thats if she even TALKS to the guy.

ReturnToSender Established Member

ReturnToSender

Posted
Posted
[/b]

 

 

You make a good point there. But, in order for people to find out someones attitude SUCKS, they have to give them a little bit of attention or opportunity for the attitude to show. Yeah, maybe SOMETIMES they are finding this out just by the way the guys walks up and says..hi..can i buy you a drink? :rolleyes:

 

But, usually the guy isnt even getting the full attention of the woman because she has already dismissed him in her mind. Thats if she even TALKS to the guy.

 

Theres a lot that can be said about a persons vibe. Like if Im having a crappy day, even when Im trying not to show it...people will still ask me if everythings okay or if something is wrong. Or ever meet someone and have a feeling about them...cant pinpoint it but it gives off either really good..or really bad energy..as in, you feel good aroudn someone, or always feel in the pits around someone?

 

Bad attitude seeps out...it comes out in expresson and mannerisms and behaviour. Ive come across people who after .02 seconds I just dont appreciate their vibe... As a matter of fact, whenever my boss isnt sure about someone, he will introduce them to me to see if they are someone he should do business with. Every single time Ive said...I dont feel good about that person, and he goes on to do business with them anyway cause he wants to give it a shot, theyve ended up being of more harm than good.

 

Vibe and gut feeling counts for a lot...not only for the person feeling it, but for the person giving off all that negative energy. I dont get why theres an argument over why its a good thing to have a bad attitude. What good is that?

Zeta4PhiSius Member

Zeta4PhiSius

Posted
Posted

TrialByFire wrote:

 

WineCountry, can you give me one practical reason why it's worthwhile to have a bad attitude towards the opposite gender?

 

He may not have yet but I can: it keeps you from getting hurt...time after time after time after time.

 

Quite frankly, I'm tired of it and I hate it. It's better not to try than go through that again.

 

Although I'm sure I probably will when there's another girl I like. And she'll say no...and the next one will say no. And the next one. It's happened year after year since I started getting into girls.

 

But, it won't stop me from trying. One of these days I'm bound to get a hit. Yeah. In dreamland I'm sure.

WineCountry Established Member

WineCountry

Posted
Posted
]people underestimate how much persistence it can take to get a woman if you are not fitting into any attractive stereotype. That leads to anger and frustration' date=' and that leads to putting out a bad vibe. [/b']Of course the anger and frustration is based on ego and ignorance, so its not necessary.

 

 

I do agree with the highlighted part. However, I dont know If I would say the anger and frustration is based on ego and ignorance. I dont necessarily think EVERY guy is thinking he should be able to pull any woman he wants. If I were to say that, then i would have to say that about women who feel frustrated and angry about not meeting men who overlook them for more '9-10ish' type women with big hooters. Fair is fair. I think it is more of a hurt feeling inside. Not really "ego", per se. Some guys just honestly may want to find a nice person to chill with, and are not necessarily looking for runway models. But, if he sees women flocking to a guy who say is maybe taller than him, and has a flashy car, he may feel anger and frustration because he is a nice guy who would shower a woman with attention yet he is not even getting a chance.

Island Girl Established Member

Island Girl

Posted
Posted
You make a good point there. But, in order for people to find out someones attitude SUCKS, they have to give them a little bit of attention or opportunity for the attitude to show. Yeah, maybe SOMETIMES they are finding this out just by the way the guys walks up and says..hi..can i buy you a drink? :rolleyes:

 

If the guy walks up and asks that - he'd be confident and self assured.

 

Believe me there is a lot you can tell from just the way a person walks or presents themselves.

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