Update: Setting boundaries

[writergal]

2sunny...he is not away on business. He took 5 days of vacation to go visit family who live a few hours away.

 

He finally called me just now. BUT its what he said that has me really annoyed.

 

The conversation lasted less than 10 minutes. Can you believe that?

 

He didn't acknowledge my text message. He said he called to let me know he'd arrived, was tired, asked me how my day was, then said he would try to call me over the next 5 days but he may not because as he put it, "I tend to get focused on what I'm doing when I'm on vacation." You know. That's just plain ol baloney. When my last boyfriend went out of town to visit family, he called me every night and we talked for an hour minimum. My ex never made up such a ridiculous excuse as "I may not call b/c I get focused on what I'gm doing while I'm on vacation." Who am I? His secretary? I'm not his girlfriend. Just a woman he fooled around with on 4 dates. Clearly that's how he's treating me.

 

I mean. Who says that to someone they're dating?!

 

I'm totally offended.

 

I didn't even know how to respond to such a ridiculous statement. Plus, he cut the conversation off, saying he was tired and needed to go to bed.

 

It's all about his needs. Apparently.

[CaliGuy]

An hour every night? That's much more than most men.

 

Writergal, do you think that you "always" tend to be into your boyfriends more than they seem to be into you?

 

Answer honestly, please.

[2sunny]

well now that he called - you don't like how he handled the call.

 

if you make it impossible for him to make you happy at every turn - you might as well just quit before you go any further.

 

you're sure not making it easy on this guy at all. he did exactly what you required and you're still not happy.

 

now you have the boundaries set so tight that he's being criticized even when he does what you tell him to.

[RamiTia]

He finally called me just now. BUT its what he said that has me really annoyed.

 

The conversation lasted less than 10 minutes. Can you believe that?

 

He said he called to let me know he'd arrived, was tired, asked me how my day was, then said he would try to call me over the next 5 days but he may not because as he put it, "I tend to get focused on what I'm doing when I'm on vacation." Who am I? His secretary? I'm not his girlfriend. Just a woman he fooled around with on 4 dates. Clearly that's how he's treating me.

 

Girl, he called you. Like you asked him to. If he was going to drop you, just used you, etc., he wouldn't have called.

 

Ease up on him a bit! You two aren't going to be like you and your ex-BOYFRIEND for a while. He's not your boyfriend! Don't expect nightly calls! As you've said, you've only been on 4 dates!!

 

My advice? Stop trying to push/rush it into a serious relationship.

[writergal]

CaliGuy: Well, that's what my ex-bf was like. He liked to talk on the phone. It was really nice to have that with him, and I realize not every guy is like him. And I shouldn't expect that from new guys I date, but dating is about making choices. Isn't it? If I don't like how someone is treating me, I have a choice to make about whether or not to address it with that person. I don't think that's unreasonable.

 

And I have a right to be annoyed. He waited to call me, the conversation was very brief, under 10 minutes, and I felt like I was being brushed off....again.

 

And to answer your question about being more into my boyfriends than they are to me? Yes. I do come on strong when I like a guy. Do I need to learn to back off and let nature take its course as in, learn to be more patient, less judgmental, and less insecure? Yes. But that is a process I'm working on.

 

That still doesn't explain why he waited until right before he's going to bed to call me. He could have called me from the road if he really wanted to talk to me. So, I feel somewhat slighted by his choice to wait and keep the conversation so brief that I had no opportunity to ask him how his drive was, what his day was like, or what his plans with his family were for the next few days. That is where I feel like he was blowing me off. I had no chance to talk to him about his vacation at all.

 

2sunny: True. I am being critical of him. And you're right. I'm not making it easy on this guy. Why should I? He had ALL DAY to call me/text me/email me. All day. Then when he does call, he keeps it quick, and tells me not to expect him to call over the next few days. I think that's just ridiculous. If you like someone, you make an effort to talk to them. I never told me that I demand he call me. I said I would like him to call me while he is there so that we can keep in touch, because i like talking to him. And a week is a long time not to talk to someone you just started dating.

[deux ex machina]

Hey. Just relax.

 

Be fun to be around. Make him feel better than he was before he picked up that phone.

 

Overanalysis be bad.

 

Relaxxx...

[writergal]

Rami, I see where you're coming from. It does seem like I'm trying to force him into being in a relationship with me now. I'm comparing him to my ex-bf who had been dating me for 2 months by the time he went out of town, not just after 4 dates.

 

So, yeah, I'm being a little intense with this guy. Which ties into Caliguy's question posed to me about whether or not I am more into guys i date then they are with me at first.

 

I guess its something I need to consider. No one ever pointed that out to me before.

[writergal]

Relax is a word that makes me uncomfortable even typing out. Me relax?

 

That is a difficult concept for me to comprehend. Hence, my pinache for Over-analysis of every aspect of my life.

 

I do have plenty to keep me busy this weekend, but then I always do. I rarely am at rest -- makes me uncomfortable to sit still.

 

I can't help the fact that I'm an intense person. Trust me. It's an achilles heel in some areas of my life where patience (like in the dating world) is a better choice than over-thinking and trying to control the outcome before I even decide if its the outcome I want. I've no idea why I operate this way in life.

 

I would love to learn how to relax in a way that didn't leave me feeling vulnerable. I think that's the problem. Whenever I let go of a desire outcome, I cringe because I don't have any control, any say in the direction something is going.

 

Even when I do yoga, I try to control how my body responds to the poses.

 

I'm a control freak. What can I say.

[carhill]

You're going to go out with him again. My bet is you're going to have sex with him. May the force be with you

[deux ex machina]

Relax is a word that makes me uncomfortable even typing out. Me relax?

 

That is a difficult concept for me to comprehend. Hence, my pinache for Over-analysis of every aspect of my life.

 

I do have plenty to keep me busy this weekend, but then I always do. I rarely am at rest -- makes me uncomfortable to sit still.

 

I can't help the fact that I'm an intense person. Trust me. It's an achilles heel in some areas of my life where patience (like in the dating world) is a better choice than over-thinking and trying to control the outcome before I even decide if its the outcome I want. I've no idea why I operate this way in life.

 

I would love to learn how to relax in a way that didn't leave me feeling vulnerable. I think that's the problem. Whenever I let go of a desire outcome, I cringe because I don't have any control, any say in the direction something is going.

 

Even when I do yoga, I try to control how my body responds to the poses.

 

I'm a control freak. What can I say.

 

 

Awww. Hugs, sweetie.

 

Kind of oddness? Don't know for sure whether this is kismet or not - but I was reading a passage in this book that sort of flashed in my mind as I was reading your response (thank you, btw).

 

It was...

 

This child, this young girl. She was made to wait while dad went away for extended periods of time. Since she was so young, she didn't understand the concept of time.

 

This made her understandably anxious. He sort of disappeared randomly, came back randomly - in her view.

 

When she grew up, she became unable to tolerate men she felt affection for "disappearing" like that. It made her incredibly anxious, and wont to behave in ways that, sadly, led to him doing the very thing she feared the most.

 

The bottom line is, she was unable to tolerate the discomfort/anxiety of keeping still - waiting.

 

Thus, the forcing of a resolution...of some sort.

 

Never rule out the possibility of inhibition. It could set you free.

[ecm]

 

Well, I ruined my strong boundaries then, because this morning after he left, I sent him a text, restating that I'd like him to call me from the road so I know he gets home safe, and to call me sometime this weekend b/c I'd like to hear from him. Then I signed it, "yours, <my name>".

 

Writergal- reading this thread, after having thought the same things in similar situations, makes me realize what a guy must think of girls like us who overanalyze EVERYTHING. I have thought these things and done these things, too, so please don't take offense to what I'm about to say. Reading your thread makes me want to backhand myself for acting this way...ever.

 

It's been 4 dates...FOUR dates. Be happy that he called. He is on vacation with his family. Would you even like someone who put you (someone he has hung out with 4 times) over spending the evening with his family? Instead of being happy that he did call you (which WAS, in fact, responding to and acknowledging your text) you are looking for another reason to nitpick the poor kid. He called. Be happy. If anyone told me that I needed to report into them at such and such a time AND such and such a time after 4 dates, I'd run...fast. So, before you scare him off, (like many of us have undoubtedly done in past relationships)....CHILL.

[2sunny]

it's a paradox - of sorts.

 

you are trying to control something that you have no control over. the less control you appear to have - the tighter you try to hold on...

 

is there really anything to hold on to? let go - see how much better it can be when you're not trying to control it all he time. when the flow of dating is natural and easy...

 

that is when you will know that it's a really good thing... when it takes little effort or thought to be connected with the right man.

 

a relationship should not have to be lead around by the nose... you're just going to end up making this guy hate you before he even has a chance to find out if he may like you.

[aerogurl87]

CaliGuy: Well, that's what my ex-bf was like. He liked to talk on the phone. It was really nice to have that with him, and I realize not every guy is like him. And I shouldn't expect that from new guys I date, but dating is about making choices. Isn't it? If I don't like how someone is treating me, I have a choice to make about whether or not to address it with that person. I don't think that's unreasonable.

 

If that's the case, why are you still pursuing this guy? If he isn't everything you want in a man (or even close to what you want) then why waste your time? I mean, if it were me and I knew that I wanted a guy who wanted to have long conversations, text me constantly, and basically always be in contact with me, then I'd go for it. Sounds to me like this guy isn't going to be able to fulfill your emotional needs anyway. Maybe you should move on before you get more involved than you already are.

[CaliGuy]

CaliGuy: Well, that's what my ex-bf was like. He liked to talk on the phone. It was really nice to have that with him, and I realize not every guy is like him. And I shouldn't expect that from new guys I date, but dating is about making choices. Isn't it? If I don't like how someone is treating me, I have a choice to make about whether or not to address it with that person. I don't think that's unreasonable.

 

And I have a right to be annoyed. He waited to call me, the conversation was very brief, under 10 minutes, and I felt like I was being brushed off....again.

 

And to answer your question about being more into my boyfriends than they are to me? Yes. I do come on strong when I like a guy. Do I need to learn to back off and let nature take its course as in, learn to be more patient, less judgmental, and less insecure? Yes. But that is a process I'm working on.

 

That still doesn't explain why he waited until right before he's going to bed to call me. He could have called me from the road if he really wanted to talk to me. So, I feel somewhat slighted by his choice to wait and keep the conversation so brief that I had no opportunity to ask him how his drive was, what his day was like, or what his plans with his family were for the next few days. That is where I feel like he was blowing me off. I had no chance to talk to him about his vacation at all.

 

What do you do with your free time?! When your boyfriends are away, do you take advantage of the free time by hanging out with friends, spending time on hobbies, working out, etc?!

 

In other words, if your not keeping busy then you are spending a lot of time thinking about your b/f which is causing you to over-analyze their every move.

 

It appears you understand that this is an issue with you, but I think you need to put some of the things I suggested into practice. When you are busy with life, you tend to not worry about things you shouldn't be worrying about.

 

When things are wrong, your intuition will kick in and you'll know. Right now I don't think you have much to worry about. Every guy is different. I can tell you that *I* personally would not be chatting on the phone for an hour every night that I am away from my S/O. I'll check in with them of course and catch up, but honestly if you're spending a lot of time chatting on the phone while they are away, what are you going to catch up on when they get back.

 

Time spent away from your S/O is time for you to re-energize and it allows you to miss each other. This, I believe, is one of the reasons that people who understand they need space occasionally have very long lasting relationships.

[writergal]

Deux: That passage is very relevant to my life. Funny how synced up the universe is when we need answers. I just realized that like the girl in that story, I too, was put in that position in my own life, with my own father. The story goes, when I was in 5th grade, my parents mysteriously started disappearing for long weekends every month, sending my siblings and I to stay with my cousins. Then when we were home again, my parents never explained to us -- and this went on for 2 months -- why they disappeared or what was going on...until one day after school. My parents sat us down, and explained that all those long weekends were spent driving to the hospital where my father was getting tested and then treated for his cancer.And they assumed by sparing us the details of their long weekend trips, they were protecting us, when in fact, I think that is the reason I get ANXIOUS whenever a guy I've dated leaves me, whether its for a vacation, a business trip, or even a break up. I'm sure that is the root of my abandonment issues. Its really no wonder I've chased so many men away. By the way, he died when I was in college. When I was in a theology class the fall after he died, the theology professor had to forewarn me that he was showing a video clip in class where my father had spoken. He was worried how it would affect me. I sat in class like everyone else, and watched my dead father speak for 10 minutes on the video clip, took notes, then went home after class and bawled my eyes out for hours. Took me days to recover from that incident. The simple answer here is: my father left me by dying, when I was at a very young age. And I think I project that anxiety into all of my dating situations.

 

And ecm: your post made me laugh. Its true. 4 dates does not a commitment make. Of course he should focus on time with family. He was being courteous by telling me he would be focusing on that, and wouldn't have time to talk to me as much as he enjoys talking to me. So, I'm taking it way out of context because of my own anxiety reaction to obviously my own past issues with it, as I explained above. So, you're all correct in your posts. I do need to CHILL.

 

High-strung people like me, is why meditation was invented. The whole purpose of it is to learn to observe, be patient and LET GO of attachment. Ha. Story of my life!!!

 

If meditation can calm me down, then miracles DO happen. And maybe someday, SOMEDAY, I will have reached a resolution and found a way not to react to the present based on my past (but we all do, otherwise, we wouldn't be human) in a way that's so detrimental to my future.

[writergal]

Thanks for your posts. I just now read them after posting my response to ecm and deux's posts.

 

CaliGuy: You're absolutely correct. I do need to shift my focus back on to my life. Question is, how do I know when its my intuition kicking in, and not my anxiety?

 

Aerogurl: Good question. I have thought about that. And when he and I are in person, we have a lot to talk about to the degree where we lose track of time, because the conversation flows so well. And when he first pursued me, he sent me extremely long emails. But those immediately stopped after our 1st date. So I don't know what to make of that.

 

 

2sunny: It is a paradox. You're correct. I'm making the situation worse by trying to control it, rather than let it unfold naturally. It is not supposed to be such an effort, this dating thing we do in life when its with the right person. Question is, how will I know when the person is a good match for me, if I'm so busy trying to force each and every one of the guys I date into this "ideal mold" I've created. I think that's where I consistently fail with my dating life. Rather than size up the guy to see if he's what i want, I immediately decide the outcome has to be "relationship" before I even get to know the guy to see if he's right for me to begin with. And there, lies the rub.

[CaliGuy]

Thanks for your posts. I just now read them after posting my response to ecm and deux's posts.

 

CaliGuy: You're absolutely correct. I do need to shift my focus back on to my life. Question is, how do I know when its my intuition kicking in, and not my anxiety?

 

Q: What's the one and only thing you control in your life?

A: YOU! (and you only!)

 

In other words, if your intuition is kicking in, what can you do about it? Certainly nothing while he is gone. And until he gets back there's really nothing to fret over. No matter what is happening, you can't change it. It's completely out of your control.

 

What you can do is focus your time and energy on yourself while he is away and deal with it when you get back.

 

Bottom line: If he isn't/can't/won't meet your needs, then he isn't the guy for you. No big deal, someone else will come along.

 

That said, I personally believe you won't find someone until you've invested in yourself completely to the point where it won't matter if you meet someone or not.... because you'll be fun/happy regardless.

 

Took me a long time to get to that point and I have to tell you, I am absolutely the happiest I've ever been.

 

If you want to get to that point, stop stressing over this guy and your relationships in general and just let them happen naturally.

 

Cheers.

[aerogurl87]

Aerogurl: Good question. I have thought about that. And when he and I are in person, we have a lot to talk about to the degree where we lose track of time, because the conversation flows so well. And when he first pursued me, he sent me extremely long emails. But those immediately stopped after our 1st date. So I don't know what to make of that.

 

I can tell you what happened, you ended the chase prematurely. As lots of people have mentioned here earlier, men love a good chase. Give in too easily and your no longer any fun, so they loose interest and go looking elsewhere. But the good thing is that you CAN get that interest back. All you need to do is stop contacting him so much. Let him call you, let him text you, let him ask if you want to go out on a date. Once you let him chase you again, those long emails will probably come back rolling in and you'll be that highly sought after prize he wanted earlier.

 

In the meantime focus on yourself and doing stuff for you. Go out with your friends as some other posters mentioned, do yoga, find a new hobby, anything to get your mind off him.

[broken umbrella]

So on our most recent date, I let him know that I'm not interested in a casual sex partner and that I'm looking for someone whose seriously interested in me. I added that if he wants to date me, he needs to: ask me out in advance instead of at the last minute as he has been doing, and give me more attention to show me how he feels whether its calling, texting or emailing me, especially between dates. I asked him to consider the amount of attention his pays to his female friends, compared to the sparce attention he gives me in between our dates. I pointed out that I deserve just as much attention from him as he gives to them, and that I won't settle for less. My married girlfriend inspired me to think this way, because she pointed out that men need to be told what women expect and want from them, or they won't make an effort to meet women's needs otherwise. She's been happily married for 20 years. And i think she has a valid point. Just b/c I've been on 4 dates with this guy, doesn't mean I don't have a right to tell him what I'd like from him with regards to how i want to be treated.

 

He's going out of town again and when I asked him to call me from the road to let me know when he safely reaches his destination, he said he would. Then I asked him to call me while he's out of town sometime since he wont return back into town until the end of next week, and he said he would.

 

 

While I understand your desire to set boundaries, I do not think that you are going about this in a way that will get you the results that you want. You are taking all of the fun and spontaneity out of the dating process. The point of having boundaries is for you to KNOW what you will and will not except from the people you date. You should not list out to a guy what you expect him to do, when he should call, how often he should contact you, or how he should treat you in comparison to his existing friendships. You are being very ridgid and controlling and you will suck all of the fun out of this if you continue this way.

 

You are seething and angry because he is not following the rules that you set for him. WHY should he? He is not your boyfriend, you have only been on four dates!!!! This is supposed to be fun, and ROMANTIC! How can he be romantic and suprise you with things if you preemptivley tell him what he SHOULD be doing.

 

Let things happen naturally. You will enjoy the process of falling in love (that is what you are looking for right?) so much more once you find someone who does those things without you having to tell them every step of the way.

[ecm]

Writergal: Happy to make you laugh. PS... if I didn't get a text back from my ex, I usually assume the worst b/c he had a history of disappearing. So, ANY TIME he didn't text back, I'd assume I was not going to hear from him all over again, and I'd start getting stressed, mad, anxious. I'd want to text him to take his phone and___________ (use your imagination) But when I would just go about my business instead of overreacting, the phone would usually ring a few minutes later. So, I tell you to chill, but I know it is easier said than done. Can't win

[Kamille]

I'm glad he called writergal! Yay Writergal's guy!

 

 

And ecm: your post made me laugh. Its true. 4 dates does not a commitment make. Of course he should focus on time with family. He was being courteous by telling me he would be focusing on that, and wouldn't have time to talk to me as much as he enjoys talking to me. So, I'm taking it way out of context because of my own anxiety reaction to obviously my own past issues with it, as I explained above. So, you're all correct in your posts. I do need to CHILL.

 

Exactly what I wanted to say! So the good new is, you do have perspective on your anxiety. You do know how to tap into a calmer more reassuring voice.

 

To tell you the truth, it sounds to me like you don't trust yourself. You've convinced yourself already that you are going to mess this up - or that you already have by being too sexual too soon. Forgive yourself about that Writer, it's done. You can't go back and this guy is obviously not holding it against you. He called, he said he was interested. Let your gard down a little. Chill and relax and allow yourself to just see where things go. You've rectified the situation by telling him you want to wait before you have sex. So just chill. It's going well. You've done right by yourself and SO HAS HE.

 

I also understand the urge to overanalyze. The problem with overanalysis is that we often end up analyzing from fear and not from a space of openness. So that no matter what he does, you're trying to make it match your worst fear: that he isn't into you enough and that he is only using you for sex.

 

You know the book He's not that into you? I take issue with one premise of it. Basically, I don't believe that men should be so into us within minutes of chasing us that they will abandon their whole lives for a woman. Building a good, healthy, balanced connection takes time, so it's important to have reasonable expectations at the very beginning of a relationship. My way is to not expect anything until the guy tells me he's into me. That way, every phone call and text is a pleasant surprise.

 

This has meant that I've had to train myself to follow a guy's lead. I try to stay busy and not get too infatuated with a guy until he shows me that it is safe to do so. It's hard at first and I've made mistakes by being... well... too busy and distant, but I've learned and the important thing is that I've learned to trust myself and my own judgement. I am now better at distinguishing thoughts stemming from anxiety from thoughts stemming from intuition. (A good way to differentiate: anxious thoughts you have when you are unsettled. Intuitive thoughts you hear when you are relaxed.)

 

 

 

 

 

Question is, how will I know when the person is a good match for me, if I'm so busy trying to force each and every one of the guys I date into this "ideal mold" I've created. I think that's where I consistently fail with my dating life. Rather than size up the guy to see if he's what i want, I immediately decide the outcome has to be "relationship" before I even get to know the guy to see if he's right for me to begin with. And there, lies the rub.

 

Brilliant insight! You can't possibly know that a guy you've just met is right for you and worth all the analysis. That takes time.

 

Let men come to you. Let them impress you. Let them sweep you off your feet. You, in the meantime, must focus on keeping yourself healthy, happy and balanced.

 

I swear, it's like yoga, it gets easier with repetition. You've done good here. You've realized how anxious thoughts have skewed your perception of what's going on and made you miss a good moment: he called! Next time, you will be better equipped the appreciate the moment and not analyze everything he does against the grid of your expectations.

[ecm]

This has meant that I've had to train myself to follow a guy's lead.

 

 

Writergal- please, please, please do yourself a favor and don't text or call him again until he contacts you. If he were put off (even the slightest bit) by your asking him to "check in," I think that will freak him out. Let him come to you now. You've shown your interest, now let him lead.

[deux ex machina]

Deux: That passage is very relevant to my life. Funny how synced up the universe is when we need answers. I just realized that like the girl in that story, I too, was put in that position in my own life, with my own father. The story goes, when I was in 5th grade, my parents mysteriously started disappearing for long weekends every month, sending my siblings and I to stay with my cousins. Then when we were home again, my parents never explained to us -- and this went on for 2 months -- why they disappeared or what was going on...until one day after school. My parents sat us down, and explained that all those long weekends were spent driving to the hospital where my father was getting tested and then treated for his cancer.And they assumed by sparing us the details of their long weekend trips, they were protecting us, when in fact, I think that is the reason I get ANXIOUS whenever a guy I've dated leaves me, whether its for a vacation, a business trip, or even a break up. I'm sure that is the root of my abandonment issues. Its really no wonder I've chased so many men away. By the way, he died when I was in college. When I was in a theology class the fall after he died, the theology professor had to forewarn me that he was showing a video clip in class where my father had spoken. He was worried how it would affect me. I sat in class like everyone else, and watched my dead father speak for 10 minutes on the video clip, took notes, then went home after class and bawled my eyes out for hours. Took me days to recover from that incident. The simple answer here is: my father left me by dying, when I was at a very young age. And I think I project that anxiety into all of my dating situations...

 

What a crushing experience.

 

The way you came back with this shows lots of insight.