Update: Setting boundaries

[writergal]

Do you remember that guy I posted about recently in the dating forum and the concerns I had about his intention/interest with me?

 

After having coffee with a married girlfriend whose dated her share of game players, I felt inspired to let this guy know exactly what I wanted when we went out again. After all that I posted about, I felt I had nothing to lose by being totally honest with him at this point, since we took things almost too far on our dates.

 

So on our most recent date, I let him know that I'm not interested in a casual sex partner and that I'm looking for someone whose seriously interested in me. I added that if he wants to date me, he needs to: ask me out in advance instead of at the last minute as he has been doing, and give me more attention to show me how he feels whether its calling, texting or emailing me, especially between dates. I asked him to consider the amount of attention his pays to his female friends, compared to the sparce attention he gives me in between our dates. I pointed out that I deserve just as much attention from him as he gives to them, and that I won't settle for less. My married girlfriend inspired me to think this way, because she pointed out that men need to be told what women expect and want from them, or they won't make an effort to meet women's needs otherwise. She's been happily married for 20 years. And i think she has a valid point. Just b/c I've been on 4 dates with this guy, doesn't mean I don't have a right to tell him what I'd like from him with regards to how i want to be treated.

 

He's going out of town again and when I asked him to call me from the road to let me know when he safely reaches his destination, he said he would. Then I asked him to call me while he's out of town sometime since he wont return back into town until the end of next week, and he said he would.

 

We also talked about the physical aspect of our relationship. I shared with him that I don't believe relationships can last if they start off with getting physical too quickly, and that I deserve something more than a casual sex relationship. He then shared that he didn't want to screw things up with me, and was willing to just focus on kissing, heavy petting, etc. without going all the way just yet b/c he really likes me and wants to get to know me better.

 

Actions speak way louder than words.

 

So, if he doesn't call me tonight, or at all during his time out of town than he's history to me. Luckily I didn't have sex with him so I am proud of myself for keeping that option closed, however this turns out. But I also learned that I have a right to say what I expect, and if it scares the guy away he's not the right guy. If the guy sticks around, then that shows me he respects me and genuinely has feelings for me.

 

If he does call, but doesn't change his behavior (and continues to not contact me in between our dates which I'm used to from previous relationships since that showed me the guy really liked me and initiated communication more than I had to), then he's still history to me.

 

At this point, after 4 dates in a month and the conversation we just recently had, he has a lot to think about. Now I just have to sit back and watch what he decides to do. His actions will reveal his true intentions with me, which is what I posted about in the other dating thread in this forum.

 

Granted, if he's just not that into me after all is said and done, I'll be hurt, be depressed for a while, but will be glad I got to practice speaking up for myself, even if it was too late given the circumstances and my own choices in the situation (encouraging the physical connection we had, but limiting it to no sex).

 

My gut says: no phone call tonight or over the weekend. I will post if he does call.

[carhill]

IME, the more positive you think, the more positive your results will be

[Kamille]

good for you Writergal! I came to realize a variation of what your friend has said. I now date without ever feeling I have something to lose and, since i'm a mature balanced human being, I am less and less afraid to let men know how I feel about them. If I like a guy, I let him know. And, like you, when I'm dating and looking for a relationship, I tell the guy straight up that I'm looking for a relationship.

 

I also feel that men like women who know their boundaries and aren't afraid to speak up for themselves. So I had to work hard at asserting my boundaries, so that if a guy wasn't treating me how I wanted to be treated, I would tell him.

 

My dating life has improved 100% since I started doing so about three years ago. And being myself gets easier and easier.

 

I never told a guy, however, that I expected a phone call or any some such thing. Interesting. Can't wait to see how that turns out.

[writergal]

Carhill: I just wish I had figured this out before my first date with this fellow. THEN I could have put all the right pieces into place; end the date after just coffee and keep the physical to a hug or light kiss and nothing more. THAT is the ideal first date scenario for me, personally, in order for me to trust that the guy will have good intentions towards me.

 

But at least I laid all my cards out on the table once and for all with this fellow now, after 4 dates. So I can pat myself on the back for doing that, even if it was too late. It's better late than never to do, say and act the right way. Kind of goes along with my current Buddhist training about right thoughts, right actions, right speech. If you give out good, you can and should expect to get good back.

 

I'm a little disillusioned about dating by this recent experience but I am glad I had the opportunity to learn something from it. Otherwise, how will I improve myself enough to the point, that I'm actually ready on all fronts for a relationship to actually work out in the long term.

 

If experience is the best teacher, then I definitely had a good lesson in dating that I hope to never repeat again.

[carhill]

The lessons will be many but the approach and process will evolve with each one. Repetition is life's way of reminding you of what you already knew. Hopefully, you can find humor and positive thoughts in such instances.

 

My work, antithetically, is to become less engaging and more distant. In all things, there is balance. Each day of balanced life is a gift, even more so than life itself, IMO. True peace.

 

I'll use your Buddhist mantra tomorrow when dealing with Medicare

[writergal]

Medicare?

 

I'm *trying* to be detached about this whole dating thing but I still feel in my gut he's using me for a casual fling because his actions speak louder than his words.

 

If I have to tell a man how to treat me all the time, where's the fun in that? If he's not calling/texting/emailing me on his own then he's not interested.

 

So, I feel stupid for knowing this deep down about him from the 1st date, ignoring it, and now its playing itself out for me based on his ignoring me. I'm just torturing myself because I attached myself to a different desire outcome; the outcome where he is interested in me for more than a physical attraction. But he's not, otherwise he'd treat me with more respect and call/text/email me.

 

I will be shocked if he actually calls me tonight or this weekend. I know he wont.

 

I want to call him but I know that would be a mistake.

[carhill]

Oh, I could write for hours about the frustrations of caring for a mentally ill person and dealing with the government, but that's for another forum

 

I think I'll actually enjoy the day when I can ask a woman out on a date and have a whole new perspective on that process and meaning for myself, compared to the last time I did it, over a decade ago. Gonna enjoy the new boundaries. I hope you do as well.

[muse08]

stay strong writergal. your strength should be in the fact that you have set some boundaries. even if they weren't all made to the fullest extent, it's better than setting none at all.

 

your strength should also come with knowing that you deserve someone who gives you all the attention you mentioned, i.e. calls/textes,emails,more dates,etc. IMO, it's good to let a guy know you're interested, while setting boundaries. if he does come through,then it's great. if he doesn't then don't take it personally.it probably just means he doesn't plan on "getting right" for any woman right now. however, i think you standing by your word while being pleasant just let's him know that you care, but that you know how you want to be treated

 

you're right.i also feel that if you have to "coach" a guy along the entire way,then there's not much comfort in that.

[CaliGuy]

Setting boundaries is a good thing. Read the book "Boundaries" by Cloud/Townsend. Many relationships fail because, even though boundaries are set, there are no consequences for crossing them.

 

So if the guy doesn't call you, then what is your recourse?! I mean, laying a boundary is good, but I want to know what your actions are going to be if he doesn't follow through.

 

PS: The GREAT thing about boundaries is that it helps weed OUT people who aren't interested in TRULY for who you are.

[Kamille]

 

I'm *trying* to be detached about this whole dating thing but I still feel in my gut he's using me for a casual fling because his actions speak louder than his words.

 

To paraphrase Caliguy; the great thing about setting boundaries is that you will know when a guy is only looking for a fling.

 

If a guy doesn't treat you the way you expect to be treated, then he doesn't deserve any of your time.

 

This is great because it will help you gain confidence in your own judgement.

 

If I have to tell a man how to treat me all the time, where's the fun in that? If he's not calling/texting/emailing me on his own then he's not interested.

 

IMO, it's all about balance. I expect a guy to make the first moves, and then if I'm interested, I will let him know by contacting him myself. If he doesn't return the contact or if I find myself doing most of the contacting (when initially dating that is), then I'll assume he isn't as interested as I am.

 

 

 

 

I want to call him but I know that would be a mistake.

 

Don't call him. Right now it sounds like you need to be reassured of his interest, so leave him room to demonstrate wether or not he's interested.

 

And hey, stay calm. There's no need to berate yourself. You're learning a very valuable lesson, one that will greatly alleviate the stress of dating.

[muse08]

PS: The GREAT thing about boundaries is that it helps weed OUT people who aren't interested in TRULY for who you are.

 

Very true... it's a learning process. IMO,one gets stronger each time you stay true to your boundaries.He may even get himself together once he realizes your boundaries, which is really backwards...

 

What do you think about that CALIGUY.why do so many men come on stronger after a woman resists them?

[CaliGuy]

Very true... it's a learning process. IMO,one gets stronger each time you stay true to your boundaries.He may even get himself together once he realizes your boundaries, which is really backwards...

 

What do you think about that CALIGUY.why do so many men come on stronger after a woman resists them?

 

Because a woman with patience and self-control is a woman to be DESIRED -- a prize. If you give yourself away to a guy quite easily, they never place value on you.

 

That is why sleeping with a guy quickly isn't a good idea.

 

Everyone should be a bit of a challenge. By that I don't mean be completely unavailable (never returns calls/emails, etc). I simply mean understand when it's time for some things and when it's time to wait.

 

Someone with patience (think: delayed gratification) is someone to be valued because they know they are of value. If you don't love and respect yourself, how can you expect anyone else to feel that way about you?

[writergal]

Yes. I do need to be reassured of his interest. And that is a telling sign, because after 4 dates, his actions should match his words, which would either be "yes, I'm interested" (actions: texting, emailing, calling me ahead of time to ask me out, etc.) vs. the reality of "I'm not going anywhere, I don't want to ruin things between us, I will call you from the road (but he doesn't respond to my emails, and I have to call him, and he keeps the conversations short and asks me out on the same day, versus ahead of time).

 

Well, I ruined my strong boundaries then, because this morning after he left, I sent him a text, restating that I'd like him to call me from the road so I know he gets home safe, and to call me sometime this weekend b/c I'd like to hear from him. Then I signed it, "yours, <my name>".

 

That was dumb of me. Clearly.

 

It shows him that I have strong feelings for him already, DESPITE the way's been ignoring me in between our 4 dates by not texting/emailing or calling me. And the way he asked me out on our 4th date was, "I'm calling you to see if you're free to get together since you said you wanted to see me before I went out of town. " MUCH different tone and context than "I'd really like to see you before I leave town for the next 5 days." And I still went out on the date with him! Hello, I'm stupid.

 

No. He's not treating me the way I want to be treated so he doesn't deserve my time. And since he didn't respond to my text this morning, that makes me think he'll definitely not call me at all anymore. I mean, the way I signed the text is blatant of my feelings for him, "Yours, <my name>." And he doesn't respond to that? Its been what, 9 hours since I sent him that text.

 

I don't think I will have to worry about him contacting me again. I mean, if he does call me, what am I supposed to say? Something like (?) "I'm hurt that you ignored my text and didn't call me, so I don't think I want to see you again but I still have your t-shirt."

 

Should I send him an email tonight and just tell him that I don't think I want to see him again since he ignored my text and didn't call me? Or is his silence his obvious answer of "I don't care about your feelings" that I need to accept and decide to either toss his t-shirt into the garbage, or email him, asking him to come and get it?

 

Besides, it takes 5 minutes to respond to a text, you know? And he didn't even respond to it. So I should take that as a red flag that he's definitely not interested in me for anything serious. Right?!

[Kamille]

Medicare?

 

I'm *trying* to be detached about this whole dating thing but I still feel in my gut he's using me for a casual fling because his actions speak louder than his words.

 

If I have to tell a man how to treat me all the time, where's the fun in that? If he's not calling/texting/emailing me on his own then he's not interested.

 

So, I feel stupid for knowing this deep down about him from the 1st date, ignoring it, and now its playing itself out for me based on his ignoring me. I'm just torturing myself because I attached myself to a different desire outcome; the outcome where he is interested in me for more than a physical attraction. But he's not, otherwise he'd treat me with more respect and call/text/email me.

 

I will be shocked if he actually calls me tonight or this weekend. I know he wont.

 

I want to call him but I know that would be a mistake.

 

Writer, 4 dates? You're over-invested. Stop. Relax. Chill out. Entertain the possibility of not doing anything about it. He doesn't call? ah well. His loss. He calls? Good for him.

 

You've planted the ball in his court by telling him how you would like to be treated. Leave it there. Wait for him to bounce it back.

 

Now go take a bath or do something to take your mind of of him. You cannot control his actions. You can, however, change your thought patterns so that you don't spend this much negative energy stressing about a guy you hardly know. Go meditate, or do some yoga. It'll relax you and help you gain perspective.

[Kamille]

And no, texting him wasn't dumb. Ease up on yourself! (and give yourself a big hug and make sure you share a laugh with yourself for getting so stressed out over this).

[muse08]

...this is what i don't understand. caliguy mentioned not having sex too soon. i'm aware of that.my question is why would a guy still act like a jerk when you haven't slept with him too early??? perhaps because he's just gonna be a jerk anyway...

 

what about men being patient and having self-control? you don't see too much of that...AT ALL...

[writergal]

I've planted the ball in his court, yes. You know, if basketball players took that much time to dribble the ball in their court, the game would never reach its outcome of one team winning or losing...it would just be a confused mess of many players.

 

Why am I being over-invested in a guy, when I expect at 4 dates or 40 dates to be treated a certain way that validates his interest in me to me?

 

A girlfriend of mine was in a similar situation. She "over-invested" as you put it, in a guy whose idea of dating her was to come over to her house, and initiate 2 to 2 hour make out sessions, then leave. That's all they ever did the entire time they dated. In fact, she told me that they rarely went out on dates in public. Then one night when he came over, she confronted him (i.e. putting up boundaries, finally), asking him to treat her as more than just a physical outlet for his late-30s horniness. She told him she wanted to go out on public dates with him, and just date him. He told her he was not interested in being exclusive with her and that he wanted to date other women. This of course really hurt her feelings because he'd used her.

 

I can't ease up on myself about sending him that text. I took a chance to see if he would reciprocate my feelings this morning via my text, and he didn't. And that hurts because I believed what he told me about being interested in me. If someone says that, their actions should reflect that. Not texting me back after I text you, speaks for itself. Am I over-reacting? Yes. I'm a woman whose been slighted..and you know what Shakespeare said about scorned..."hell hath no fury..."

 

Dammit!

 

Men!

[CaliGuy]

...this is what i don't understand. caliguy mentioned not having sex too soon. i'm aware of that.my question is why would a guy still act like a jerk when you haven't slept with him too early??? perhaps because he's just gonna be a jerk anyway...

 

Bingo.

 

what about men being patient and having self-control? you don't see too much of that...AT ALL...

 

Not making excuses for men. We're visually stimulated and sometimes our hormones get out of control. When I have shown self-control, at times it made HER feel inadequate.

 

Then again, you sleep together right away and you see no value. There's a balance there somewhere. Hard to find for sure.

[writergal]

True. I agree with you about sex too soon, and being patient to present more allure and challenge to men who show interest.

 

That said, I showed him my lack of self worth by permitting him to get physical with me immediately. And letting him spend the night on our most recent date (we did everything but the deed) was again a clear indicator to him that I hold little value for myself. ALTHOUGH right before we commenced, I told him I didn't want to have sex with him so soon and that we had plenty of time to get to know each other. I told him that I wanted to have more dates where we did a fun activity (not sex) or went to dinner, where we could talk and get to know each other. He said that was fine but then initiated more physical play and it got late and so I asked him to sleep over. He had told me that he'd come over with the intention of having sex, but that he left his condoms behind because he didn't want to ruin the connection between us. For a minute there, I believed him. But just for a minute. Because 60 seconds later, he was de-clothing me and the fun commenced short of sex. And I didn't help matters by not stopping him.

 

So he and I both have poor boundaries then. Huh?

[muse08]

So he and I both have poor boundaries then. Huh?

 

I'm glad you've shared part of the blame. He truly deserves it. Just learn from it, don't beat yourself up...It can make you sick.

[Kamille]

Well. All part of setting boundaries. I would lose interest in a guy who didn't take me out. Or say, take me out, and then if he didn't, I would likely break up with him. The point is, we decide how we let others treat us.

 

Over-invested? Yes, I think you are. Your expectations are fair, but at the same time, you shouldn't be this anxious about an unreturned text. Annoyed? Sure. But then, the unreturned text is no reflection on you. It's on him: he loses points. That's all. You can go on leading your life and stop feeling this anxious about a guy you hardly know.

[CaliGuy]

So he and I both have poor boundaries then. Huh?

 

Yes. And because you went "almost" all the way and didn't do, he's pouting like a baby.

 

Not much of a man, is he?

[writergal]

I don't want to make myself sick anymore over this. I realize 4 dates is nothing in the long scheme of life, but it was enough for he and I to create this mess. Apparently, he's walked away from the mess, and I'm the only one standing around, trying to figure out what to do with the emotional wreckage (my own).

 

I am really attracted to this guy, and not just in the physical sense. So I'm mad at myself for not having good boundaries. But then again, whose to say that would have changed the way he treated me.

 

Yes. I'm annoyed that he didn't return my text. And yes, he does lose points for that.

 

If he is giving me the silent treatment for not going all the way, yes Caliguy that would mean he is pouting like a baby. But I think he may be too narcissistic for that. He probably is not thinking about me at all anymore. That I'm sure of.

[writergal]

And then again, my married friend of 20 years, had sex with her husband on their 5th date and he proposed to her 2 years later. SO, not all sex-too-soon scenarios end as badly.

 

But I'd say that I'm over-reacting to this (as I did from the start) b/c I didn't trust myself enough to stick to having clear boundaries with how far I'd let things go between him and I, even from the first date.

 

I feel like I should start a single woman's dating blog. But Sex and the City tv show already exists. And I'm sure there are other single women bloggers out there.

 

So I guess the lesson here is: lose a great catch if you give up yourself too easily.

[2sunny]

settle down...

 

you asked him to call over the weekend... the weekend is not yet passed.

 

you text - he didn't - no big deal, he's traveling on business and has his thoughts on the task at hand = business.

 

to jump so quickly to a conclusion about a text you sent is premature. wait and see if he calls over the weekend... see what his demeanor and approach are with you - then take it from there.