Hkizzle Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Ok, attraction is based on three key components: Emotional Intellectual Physical If a person is too emotionally available (needy/giving too much attention) or too bitchy then they can turn someone off. If a person lacks the intellectual capacity to make good conversation and dull without a sense of humor attraction can be lost that way. Oh and the most sensitive issue of all, if a person lets themselves go physically then attraction can be lost. To my main point now: I know lots of people, men and women alike that have lost attraction for their partners, and it wasn't because they were shallow. They DIDN'T even want to lose attraction, their brains subconsciously lost attraction because the other person wasn't taking the effort to generate the attraction. You can't say these people are shallow. Anyone that says that is being hypocritical since you will have your subconscious criteria and will lose attraction for your own partner if they were too clingy, or too bitchy, or bored the crap out of you. Or if you're ok with a 30 lb weight gain, they let themselves go and gained 100 lbs. You've probably lost attraction for someone else for whatever reason, just that you couldn't pinpoint it. How can someone else be shallow for doing the same thing?
Jaytb Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 very true HK. and let me add, I don't want women who spends 5 hours a day in the gym. I just want a woman who walks around instead of driving occasionally. And uses a bicycle. And someone who enjoys a walk in the park.
Jersey Shortie Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Ok, attraction is based on three key components: Emotional Intellectual Physical Completely agree. You can't say these people are shallow. Anyone that says that is being hypocritical since you will have your subconscious criteria and will lose attraction for your own partner if they were too clingy, or too bitchy, or bored the crap out of you. Or if you're ok with a 30 lb weight gain, they let themselves go and gained 100 lbs. You've probably lost attraction for someone else for whatever reason, just that you couldn't pinpoint it. How can someone else be shallow for doing the same thing? I think you are making alot of assumptions in your equation here. I personally don't think it's necessarily shallow to loose attraction for something that changes in a person that you were intially attracted to. On the other hand, people are human beings and they are going to go through cycls and sometimes change. If your level of loyatly is only determined by how many of your needs are getting met at a given moment, that's what is shallow. There is this mentality that a shift or change or struggle a partner goes through is unacceptable. Dump them and get a better model. Of course untill the same process repeats. For me, this isn't a matter of what is shallow. This is a matter of unrealistic expectations that people have developed from over glamourzation of media.
Author Hkizzle Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 On the other hand, people are human beings and they are going to go through cycls and sometimes change. If your level of loyatly is only determined by how many of your needs are getting met at a given moment, that's what is shallow. Ok that's cool. Thing is, stick with them for how long if your needs are not met? 3 months, 6 months, a year? 2 years? Everyone has their limits. I would say 3 months is pretty damn shallow. But the guy on the other thread has been unhappy for 2 years now. How's that shallow?
Jersey Shortie Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Hkizzle, you only know his side of it.
Author Hkizzle Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 Hkizzle, you only know his side of it. Lol, so do you but you were able to make a judgement on it! You've still not answered my question, come on, in your opinion how long is sticking with a partner you have no attraction for anymore acceptable?
carhill Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 IME, I've only lost attraction when my instincts told me, later confirmed by empirical evidence, that the person no longer cared about my existence. It's difficult with women as they can mask pretty effectively but I've come to trust my instincts in such matters. Physicality is not a reason; life circumstance is not a reason, at least for me. YMMV
loveslife Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Hkizzle, I think you're throwing a lot of factors into an equation and making a sweeping generalization. You're talking about intellectual, emotional and physical but then saying sometimes people just stop feeling "it". I think these are all different issues that you've put together here. My feeling is that sometimes people do lose interest in sex with someone when they gain weight or some other factor changes. Everytime I've seen this happen the person who lost interest was not deeply in love or committed to begin with. When you truly love someone and are committed you stick with them through thick and thin. Heck, I know a couple where the woman stayed with the guy when he lost both his legs. They were just out of college, not yet married and she just loved him so much she stayed by his side.
Author Hkizzle Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 When you truly love someone and are committed you stick with them through thick and thin. Heck, I know a couple where the woman stayed with the guy when he lost both his legs. They were just out of college, not yet married and she just loved him so much she stayed by his side. Wow, you're making sweeping generalizations too. So many people have rose tinted glasses and just seem to remember the good stories. When in reality MOST people are selfish. How's that not true? Just look at this board and how so many people have been hurt by others. Most people are friggin selfish. People date so friggin long to find a partner, and yet the divorce rate is still 50%. That says a lot about MOST people. I'm refering to the reality of the behavior of most of humanity.
loveslife Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Wow, you're making sweeping generalizations too. So many people have rose tinted glasses and just seem to remember the good stories. When in reality MOST people are selfish. How's that not true? Just look at this board and how so many people have been hurt by others. Most people are friggin selfish. People date so friggin long to find a partner, and yet the divorce rate is still 50%. That says a lot about MOST people. I'm refering to the reality of the behavior of most of humanity. If you're basing your view of humanity on the people who come to a message board that is here to help people with dating problems then that's a little misguided, in my opinion. I have no interest in trying to prove what I believe to you. It's just my opinion, and my experience. YMMV
Author Hkizzle Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 If you're basing your view of humanity on the people who come to a message board that is here to help people with dating problems then that's a little misguided, in my opinion. I have no interest in trying to prove what I believe to you. It's just my opinion, and my experience. YMMV No I'm basing it on the number of single mothers I know, female friends that have been abused by their bfs. Players, narcissists, etc On the female side I know bitches, gold diggers, and all sorts of shallow women. Then there's of course the 50% divorce rate. Plenty of messed up people out there, don't need to go to a message board or the Jerry Springer show to see that.
loveslife Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 I'm confused. Re: the OP are you saying that only a selfish or crappy person would leave someone for gaining weight or changing in some way? All I'm saying is that if someone is truly in love and truly committed they won't leave someone for something like gaining weight.
Author Hkizzle Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 I'm confused. Re: the OP are you saying that only a selfish or crappy person would leave someone for gaining weight or changing in some way? All I'm saying is that if someone is truly in love and truly committed they won't leave someone for something like gaining weight. Lol, I'm saying most people are not truly in love and truly commited. People leave other people for all sorts of reasons, gainly weight is only a physical component. Most people lose interest because of the emotional component. But because women are emotional creatures, and men are more visual women tend to blame men for losing interest because of the visual aspect. If a woman dumped me because she lost emotional attraction and told another woman, I bet the other woman won't judge her for it, because they can relate. EVERYONE has their own reason, they just don't like it when they get dumped themselves, or someone dumps them for a reason they don't consider to be a problem.
loveslife Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Again, all I'm saying is that if someone is truly in love and truly committed they don't leave because someone does something like gain weight. I don't think either one of us is qualified to determine whether most people are or are not truly in love and truly committed.
Author Hkizzle Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 Again, all I'm saying is that if someone is truly in love and truly committed they don't leave because someone does something like gain weight. I don't think either one of us is qualified to determine whether most people are or are not truly in love and truly committed. I don't need to be qualified to understand that the 50% people divorcing are no longer in love. What? They're divorcing because they want to save the whales? And that's just the people that got married. Most people date multiple partners before marriage.
loveslife Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Again, all I'm saying is that if someone is truly in love and truly committed they don't leave because someone does something like gain weight. Lets just say that I don't feel qualified to determine how many people that is.
carhill Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Probably mentioned already, but there are substantial amounts of humans who don't have the emotional capability or interest to bond with another human in the way that could end as discussed in the OP. Such is the basis of my theory of how people 'think' relationships rather than 'feel' them, simply because the feeling part is alien to them, like a foreign language they will never learn, whether due to disinterest or inability. Here on LS, we read stories over and over again of people being 'burned' and how they'll never allow themselves to 'love' like that again. Turn their emotions off. They want an interpersonal relationship, so they mask those aspects, but turn off their emotions, rather 'thinking' their way through. Action-reaction, etc. Helluva way to live, IMO ....
Author Hkizzle Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 And if you've lost attraction and you can't pinpoint the reason? Do you think loss of attraction is 100% tied only to emotional, intellectual & physical connection? Well, we could add financial, sharing same values and goals. But lots of people can't pinpoint their reason or deliberately don't think about the reason because lots of people love to live in denial. For example, I was just talking to a single mother today, the guy that got her pregnant is a banker, got plenty of money to raise a family. He's out dating 21 and 18 yr olds and he's 36. I bet he's got his own justifications for his own sick behaviors. Back to the original point. Most people are blinded by denial and have all sorts of justifications for why their feelings is ok, but someone else's isn't. So to protect oneself. If you're clingy then stop it, if you're a bitch, stop it. If you can't converse well go take a course in public speaking, I know people that have If you're overweight, go do some friggin exercise. Everyone cries about being dump, anyone want to do something about their situation? Responsibilty, competitiveness, anyone?
GorillaTheater Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 I view "physical changes" from two angles: yes, as we age, we change. My wife and I are in our 40s and while both in pretty good shape (I still wear a 32 waist, for example), neither one of us are going to have much of a future as underwear models. I still lust after my wife like a drunken banshee, but if she put on 50 or more pounds, would I feel that same physical attraction? I don't know, but possibly not. It certainly wouldn't mean I loved her any less and I wouldn't be shopping for a new model, but the physical attraction might suffer. Would I be in the wrong for feeling that way? I really don't think so. And just for the record, we have alot of kids. I think my wife was just as sexy, if not sexier, when she was pregnant. But baby weight gain is a far cry from what I think the issue is here. But I want to throw something else out there. There's a current thread in the marriage section, "Not attracted to husband" or something like that, where the wife is physically repulsed by her husband because he's pale and hairy. He hasn't changed, but what she finds attractive apparently has. Isn't finding a partner who hasn't changed less physically attractive "worse" than finding a partner who has changed physically less so? And if it is, why isn't some of the outrage I see here directed at her? Or is it simply too much fun to engage in yet another gender war?
Author Hkizzle Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 But I want to throw something else out there. There's a current thread in the marriage section, "Not attracted to husband" or something like that, where the wife is physically repulsed by her husband because he's pale and hairy. He hasn't changed, but what she finds attractive apparently has. Isn't finding a partner who hasn't changed less physically attractive "worse" than finding a partner who has changed physically less so? And if it is, why isn't some of the outrage I see here directed at her? Or is it simply too much fun to engage in yet another gender war? When nothing has changed and yet a person loses interest that's terribly unfair. (Let me go direct some outrage at her! nah just kidding) At the end of the day the way people tend to base their opinions on are a reflection of their own preferences. Women are less visual so they find it more distressing when men who are more visual lose interest over looks. But I don't blame women for dumping me if I'm weak emotionally and acting like a wimp instead of a manly man!
carhill Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 But I don't blame women for dumping me if I'm weak emotionally and acting like a wimp instead of a manly man! Since that's promoting a stereotype, why not promote the similar stereotype of a woman not blaming a man if he doesn't find her physically attractive anymore since he has no more control over the feelings attached to what he sees than she does over the feelings attached to how her man behaves? Again it returns to emotional awareness and how those emotions are processed....
Author Hkizzle Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 What percentage of people do you think are dumped for the reasons you stipulate above vs being dumped because of some issue that their SO has which is unrelated to them (ie: they're SO is just a jerk)? Just curious about your thoughts on this. I agree with you in loss of attraction doesn't make someone shallow when their SO doesn't seem to care any longer about the qualities you mentioned above, the same qualities they had when hey first got together with their SO. Generally speaking, that's the bait-and-switch. There are some exceptions of course - illness (mental or physical), being one. Well, I was only refering to the inability to stop the loss of attraction part of course. If a guy is a jerk he deserves to be dumped. THE IRONY though, oh the irony, and I've interviewed plenty of women. It's much easier to dump a guy that's a "loser" ie not confident, needy, boring and thus there is no attraction. Then someone they are attracted to and obviously a jerk. Hence why many women take their cheating BFs or jerk BFs back. Shows how powerful attraction works. Attraction supersedes logic all the time in men and women.
Author Hkizzle Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 Since that's promoting a stereotype, why not promote the similar stereotype of a woman not blaming a man if he doesn't find her physically attractive anymore since he has no more control over the feelings attached to what he sees than she does over the feelings attached to how her man behaves? Again it returns to emotional awareness and how those emotions are processed.... It's not sterotypes, there are of course many exceptions, but generalizations are generalizations because they are GENERAL behaviors. As for processing emotions. Read my post above. Lots of people are clearly unable to process their emotions, which supercede their logic.
Isolde Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 If this is such a profound truth, that explains SO much , why do so many beautiful women get cheated on? Of course it's important to stay in shape. But it's not going to make an R okay, where it wasn't before.
Thornton Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Ok, attraction is based on three key components: Emotional Intellectual Physical I would add that someone may not be entirely happy with one or more of these components from the beginning of the relationship, but they compromise because someone is amazingly good in one of the other areas. For example, my bf might not be handsome but he might be very intellectual and interesting, so I put up with his lack of good looks. If he later turns out to be less intellectual than I thought, then it changes the balance of the relationship - I was settling for his looks because he was so intelligent, but if he turns out not to be intelligent then why am I settling for his looks? Thus I fall out of love with him. Again, all I'm saying is that if someone is truly in love and truly committed they don't leave because someone does something like gain weight. It depends how much weight the person gains. I love my bf, but if he goes up to 300 pounds we sure as hell are not going to be having sex! I would still want sex, I just wouldn't be attracted to him any more, and I think it would spell the end of our relationship.
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