I'm guessing I'll seem shallow.....

[northstar1]

Ok, interesting study.

 

However the study does specify that is a result of ecology. It's not a socially driven thing.

 

Ecology driving differences in mate selection is the reason why one species will branch out into different species anyway.

 

The 0.6-0.7 (sorry I've been using the inverse 1.4) is still the preferred amongst developed nations.

 

At the end of the day what is seen as healthy will drive mate selection, and that's genetically imprinted.

 

Yep. I love reading books about this stuff.

[Sam Spade]

yeah, the thing is that deep in my heart I don't really want to be loved and supported for what I DO...I want to be loved and support for WHO I AM. Who I already am and always was. I guess that's' what everyone really was. After all I know I have been "mooching" off my parents for quite a few years, but I have not really caused anybody any trouble and I DO go out of my way to help people and contribute to the world and the people even more unfortunate than myself (volunteering as a tutor, giving up a few dollars of my weekly "allowance" to charity even though I'd rather buy junk food and it is not a lot of money I have)..I am very very tired emotionally and physically (the extra weight and frequent insomnia issues does not help with that at all) pretty much all the time and I do what I can perhaps in small ways, but I keep on doing it ...from the outside it does not seem to other people (especially my parents) like it is enough...a lot of it has to do with my parents ....with others I already feel accepted and supported just for who I am. I am a good person I know that and I have tried so very hard to get somewhere.

 

My bro and sis at some points had trouble believing that themselves, maybe partly cause it's just so hard to believe being that I have not made much actual tangible progress (no job, weightloss, etc.)..we are taught that real effort causes effect inevitably.... and partly because they have been influenced by the "toxic" nature of my parents. However they have changed their tune by now, and many of my dearest friends have been supportive and understanding the entire time. However none of these people live nearby me anymore, ONLY my parents.

 

Yeah if people, especially my parents suddenly became so much more loving and supportive of me because I had a real day job and lost weight, was getting myself together...That would really really piss me off and really hurt me. Because you know what, when that happens and I have so much going for me I won't really NEED nearly as much support anyway. I NEEDED peoples' support when I was crying alone at night in my bedroom trying not to let anybody hear because I knew they were tired of my drama, and I had no legitimate reason to be sad in the eyes of the world.

 

I just have finally realized that a big part of the reason I have been "paralyzed" so long is that I live pretty much every day of my life in fear. My parents have always had a way of fighting either with eachother or with me, or with making subtle insults ....that just causes stress.. I don't think it is just me either, my siblings have said the same thing...the tones in their voices just strike terror in me sometimes.

 

If my mother ever read this she would immediately accuse me of putting all the blame on her for my mistakes, and my failures and then she might somehow admit that she "must have done something wrong" (oh it's the worst when she does this one) with me as a child, and guilt trip me hugely because SHE feels guilty, and not only that but lead me to believe that she beileves I am defective and less than..But I have finally realized that the only hope I have is to get out of here.

 

My parents want me to get a part time job to bring in money before I am basically allowed out of the house, and then I would go to some "group home" nearby...fair enough cause the only finance I have is theirs I guess, but I feel like I am being kept prisoner. I dont even want to stay in this state (Maryland)..I have nothing against it, lovely state, but it is not right for me. Because of my anxiety and cognitive problems, day jobs are pretty much out of the question for me. I am considering looking for other ways to make a living, learning a craft of some sort, jewelry making, or chrocheting or something...I don't know.

 

I just don't have many options..I feel like I have to prove myself before I am allowed out of this mess...but I also feel like I never will be able to get anywhere at all until I am free from interaction with these people on an every day basis. Is that a "catch 22" or something?

 

Also I want to point out that I have seen therapists and psychiatrist for years, and I have been through like 2 or 3 of each (partly cause of moving, a few times because I was not happy with them)...and I feel I have been kind of screwed and preyed upon by the supposed "mental health" system. Made to take pills I did not want to take and that never helped much anyway...and at some point I realized that these people don't care about me at all, I am paying them to seem like they care, but they don't even LIKE me. A few of them did like me and I felt they had my genuine best interest at heart, unfortuntaley I had to move. anyway, long story.

 

 

This is a very sad story, but the good in it is that you demonstrate way more capacity for coping than you give yourself credit for. Good luck.

[Sam Spade]

For interest sake, here is one study....

 

http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~hbe-lab/acrobatfiles/preferred%20waist.pdf

 

A fascinating observation in the abstract of this article:

"We interpret this as a preference for heavier women, which we think should be common where there is no risk of obesity."

 

Think of the preference for skinny girls as a form of weak insurance that the girl won't baloon, given the huge risk of obesity in the western societies .

Makes perfect sense. Dramatic curves are awesome, but there's this nagging fear in the back of your head - "what if she baloons into something terrible?":o

[ecm]

I started to try to read all of the replies, but it's 11 pages...I tried, though. So, I'll going to risk maybe saying something another person already said.

 

What about pointing out the good things? Helping her feel better about herself, so she has some motivation to WANT to look better? I'm not a fan of LYING, but maybe even just ask her if she's lost a few pounds. Tell her she looks hot and ask her what she's been doing or something? Act like you're excited to see her, tell her she looks nice....whatever. It will (unless she is depressed, like some people mentioned earlier) maybe give her a kick-start?

 

Maybe talk to her like you know it's not healthy. The other day, I was telling a smoker how bad it is for you, etc, etc. Then I realized I probably should just shut it as I could lose a few pounds for sure. So, what business do I have giving advice to a smoker, when being overweight can cause just as many health problems. My reason for telling you this? You love her and you want to be with her forever, right? Being overweight can jeopardize how long "forever" lasts. So, maybe take that approach?

 

Are you in perfect shape, though? (not being snotty, just wondering) If you have also "changed" at all since you met, you might have no shot of the conversation well.

 

PS: it is kinda shallow. I know soooooome weight gain CAN be prevented, but sometimes there's a legit medical reason and it can't. I think depression can fall under that. If that's what it is, it's not her fault. So, help her. Thought: What if you started to lose your hair and she said "mmmm, I just don't like that I can't run my fingers through your hair anymore". It's different, obviously. But think about it... I'm going to go grab cookie.

[sweetjasmine]

WTF you mean it varies with height or across cultures?

 

I said the ratio is maintained, even if a person is shorter/taller, skinnier/fatter. If we're looking at a woman who's 5'4" and 140 lbs and has a WHR of 0.6 and a woman who's 5'8" and 140 lbs and has a WHR of 0.6, they both have the ideal ratio and are both "attractive".

 

My point is that the ideal WHR being 0.6-0.9 across all cultures doesn't mean that skinny people (regardless of WHR) are automatically attractive across all cultures. You can be close to overweight or even overweight and still have that ideal WHR.

 

You second paragraph is total BS and you're going to fail when you take the course.

 

Again with "taking the course" and "picking courses". I've studied the subject. Studied. Already completed. Now, please, stop making it personal.

 

The desire to find a fat person in a poor place is HIGHER REASONING, it's called using your brain, it's not to do with genetic driven primal drive.

 

I didn't claim it had anything to do with genes. I'm claiming that different preferences develop in different places.

 

Your lack of knowledge when it comes to the difference between genetically driven primal DRIVES and HIGHER REASONING is astounding.

 

Please read what I'm saying more closely. You're misinterpreting a great deal of it.

 

As for getting worked up. You've used the term "I find it offensive" many times.

 

I used it once -- one time -- and was referring to your generalization about men finding looks more important than personality. That has absolutely nothing to do with morality.

 

Ok fine, yeah, slight differences.

 

She's saying if a man likes a fat woman in Africa that shows it's a genetic preference. WTF, a load of croack of ****........

 

Oy. I'm not saying it's genetic. That's my entire point -- skinny/fat preferences are NOT ENCODED IN GENES.

[Hkizzle]

Ok whatever you want to say. Wanting an attractive person is not encoded in my genes. Neither is the desire to have sex, and my ability to feel hunger.

 

None of it is encoded in our genes.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

 

I'm tired of the shaming of guys who openly admit they don't like fat chicks. Newsflash: this is MOST guys.

I think you would be surprised at how many do actually but they feel ashamed to admit it for fear of the enigma attached to it god forbid they don't want a size 00 lol..

Straight up cubbies, yes, it is shallow. If you honestly loved her as a person, this wouldn't be an issue. So, let's pretend that she loses the weight but then, the two of you settle down, get married and she gets pregnant. Will her bloated body turn you off? What happens if she has to go on some form of meds and gains weight?

 

Your g/f sounds depressed. Her home environment or at minimum, relationship with her mother, is messing with her emotional well-being, which is messing with her physical appearance. Instead of getting on her case about her weight, is there no way that you can try to help her work through her family issues? I'm also guessing that since she's graduated, she has nothing to distract her from her family life.

 

This doesn't mean you have to take responsibility for her actions. But it does mean that some compassion, empathy and real love, might make a difference.

 

If this relationship doesn't work, next time, pick someone who not only lives the lifestyle while single, but believes in the healthy lifestyle, at core, or is so wrapped up in shallowness, that she'll stay thin just to avoid being labelled as fat.

I don't think its shallow IF she was thin when they got together! then she let herself go. its one thing for a guy to seek out a overweight women for a relationship its quite another to have her become this way after the fact and that goes both ways women or men! its preference not shallowness.

There are plenty of causes for weight gain that have nothing to do with you. Not everything's a case of "I don't care anymore and I'm letting myself go on purpose".

 

 

 

As TBF pointed out, the bit about showering and not shaving is added on.

 

But if my SO putting on 35 extra pounds and losing the motivation to take care of himself happened to be accompanied by major life changes and depression, I'd be worrying about deeper problems than "he doesn't turn me on as much anymore."

I do agree you should try to get to the heart of the issue of why shes become like this 1st? instead of solely focusing on the fact shes not physical appealing anymore.

 

If some ones truly clinically depressed you can try and make them care all you like it wont happen with out treatment and possibly meds.

[donnamaybe]

This is how it works, for those youngsters among us who haven't yet got this nailed down yet:

 

If a man has preferences in the women he's attracted to, whether it's about body shape or hair color or ambition or anything else, he's shallow. And if she changes during the time she's been with him, it's his fault.

 

If a woman has preferences in men, whether it's about body shape or hair color or ambition or anything else, she has standards and is encouraged not to change them for anybody since that would be "settling." And if he changes during the time he's with her, it's his fault.

 

Get it?

 

Oh, good gawd, here we go again with the blanket generalizations.

 

I'm a woman, and did any of my posts on the subject contain even a hint of this attitude?

[Jersey Shortie]

EarthGirl:

 

See here is some philosophy for you:

 

None of us really care if people think we are unattractive physically. Yes we think we do, but I'm telling you, we don't. We ONLY care if people think we are worthy souls. If we are beautiful people, basically. Somewhere in our subconscious a lot of us have a belief that our outsides tend to "match" our insides.

 

That's a little to base to be completely true. While agree people want to be see as worthy, if we both desire the physical and emotional, then we want to be valued for both the physical and emotional. I think it's wrong to tell people it's okay to pick their mates based on what visually appeals to them but expect people themselves to be completely seperate from wanting to look good. This is why I dislike when men critize women for being worried about their own looks. It's okay for a man to worry about his woman's looks but then men get all bent of shape when we rightly so understand how important it is too men. And they continue to get bent out of shape when you question their real priorities or loyalties.

[northstar1]

That's a little to base to be completely true. While agree people want to be see as worthy, if we both desire the physical and emotional, then we want to be valued for both the physical and emotional. I think it's wrong to tell people it's okay to pick their mates based on what visually appeals to them but expect people themselves to be completely seperate from wanting to look good. This is why I dislike when men critize women for being worried about their own looks. It's okay for a man to worry about his woman's looks but then men get all bent of shape when we rightly so understand how important it is too men. And they continue to get bent out of shape when you question their real priorities or loyalties.

 

Jersey Shortie, will you marry me? I think we'd make beautiful music together.

[Jersey Shortie]

Oh whatever! You don't like me anymore then most of the guys here do.

[EarthGirl]

That's a little to base to be completely true. While agree people want to be see as worthy, if we both desire the physical and emotional, then we want to be valued for both the physical and emotional. I think it's wrong to tell people it's okay to pick their mates based on what visually appeals to them but expect people themselves to be completely seperate from wanting to look good. This is why I dislike when men critize women for being worried about their own looks. It's okay for a man to worry about his woman's looks but then men get all bent of shape when we rightly so understand how important it is too men. And they continue to get bent out of shape when you question their real priorities or loyalties.

 

I'm not sure I understand this. I never said I wanted people to be "separate from wanting to look good"...I want to look good myself. I'm not sure we actually disagree with anything about this subject.

[sweetjasmine]

Ok whatever you want to say. Wanting an attractive person is not encoded in my genes. Neither is the desire to have sex, and my ability to feel hunger.

 

None of it is encoded in our genes.

 

You're still not understanding what I'm saying, but I don't know how to be any clearer.

 

Biology makes us want an attractive person. It doesn't determine WHAT SPECIFIC FEATURES are attractive to a SPECIFIC INDIVIDUAL. There's absolutely no way you can compare hunger/the necessity for food -- which is present in every single living organism -- to "I find blonde hair to be more appealing". That people have preferences when it comes to appearance is universal. The actual preferences and features are not.

[yongyong]

it shouldn't be just about her looks.

I would be disgusted at wathching woman eating nachos, potato chips, drinking big gulp even though she is fat.

(of course, if she is thin, she can eat whatever she wants. she can eat like a hippo but it will still look cute)

 

I say just dump her or take a break.

this is good for her anyways. she might change her lifestyle or find a bf who would accept her fatness and don't say **** about her online