Hkizzle Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Lol, I like it how this thread is so divided. Attraction is based on Emotional, Intellectual AND physical. People are being blind, naive and hypocritical if they say the physical side doesn't matter. Simply because the vast majority of people have their own physical requirements. Look, you'll be shallow if you dumped her as soon as she went from 115 to 130 without making an effort to let her know in a nice way. But if it's an ongoing process of a person letting themselves go at which point does it get shallow? After 2 years, 5, 10? After 20 lbs, 30 lbs, 50? Everyone will go through the good and the bad, but it's also everyone's repsonsibility to stay relatively attractive for their partners, or they shouldn't cry if their partners lost attraction. In fact to say to say that people should stay attracted even if they are not is just naive. Attraction is something a person can lose even if they don't want to lose it. I know people that lose attraction for their partners and they actually want to stay with their partners.
EarthGirl Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 yeah and I'd just like to point out that I am a girl of 5, 3 and a half...and I am fat currently, but I used to be thin and in very good shape. However my "ideal weight" was probably oh maybe 130 or 135, possibly even 140. I don't know what the doctor's charts say about that, but I know i was a dancer with a dancer's body, and people often commented on my figure being especially nice. I was somewhat curvy, "hourglass"...but I was not really even that curvy...just had a little healthy muscle on me from dance and a little healthy fat which women are supposed to have. But I was not even like how they talk about how Marylin Monroe and Sophia Loren were more curvy and they considered that beautiful back in the day...so I don't know how tall your girlfriend is, but I'd give anything to be 150 again, although ideally I am shooting for getting back down to at least 140..But when I was just 20 or 30 pounds overweight I think I seemed to "carry" the weight well, and I looked pretty still sometimes. I did not enjoy going swimming with people I did not know well, getting into a bathing suit in front of people, or a leotard and tights anymore..but if I wore a baggy T-**** and jeans, I don't think people could really tell much different until another 10 or 20 pounds later, when it officially became noticeable that I was overweight. It's so hard to tell accurately yourself though, especially with mirrors, sometimes you think you look ok, even kind of pretty, and sometimes you look and are just in horror. It's much easier to tell by looking at pictures that were taken recently of yourself. But for whatever reason some people carry weight better than others. Some women put on 20 pounds from their ideal weight and even if they were exquisetely beautiful, they suddenly just look..different. Other women can put on 30 pounds and if they are wearing just slightly baggy clothes they don't look much different and still turn plenty of heads. Even some women who are hundreds of pounds overweight, may not be sexually attractive to the majority of people anymore, but people still comment on their "pretty face"..not even to be condescending but it is just so amazing that they have so much extra weight and yet they are still so very BEAUTIFUL that their face is just captivating, or they have a sexy voice or whatever. Same thing goes with men. I don't know why it's so different with different people.
Jersey Shortie Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 People are being blind, naive and hypocritical if they say the physical side doesn't matter. Simply because the vast majority of people have their own physical requirements. I don't think anyone saying that physical attraction doesn't matter. However, perhaps our perceptions and expectations aren't realistic to do media "glamouring" (Taking a word from the show True Blood here). When you have one partner struggling with life issues and the other partner sees it but his first concern is for himself and his attraction to his partner, you got to question his sincerity in the relationship. And I still stand by my point that if we reversed the situation and a woman was here saying how much money deteremined her attraction to her partner, and if he lost his money, was laid off or had a decrease in his pay or 401K, that her attraction would be less and worried about his level to provide. Instead of supporting him the time he needed it most. I think the male response would be VASTLY different.
Hkizzle Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 She's been letting herself go for 2 years now. How's he shallow for finally losing interest after she's been lazy for 2 years! It's not like he hasn't tried and it's been 2 months. Jeeze. Love still has a limit, it's not a friggin charity, and yeah I'll agree with you if a guy lost his job for 2 YEARS and didn't get a new one.
stace79 Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 She's been letting herself go for 2 years now. How's he shallow for finally losing interest after she's been lazy for 2 years! It's not like he hasn't tried and it's been 2 months. Jeeze. Love still has a limit, it's not a friggin charity, and yeah I'll agree with you if a guy lost his job for 2 YEARS and didn't get a new one. But why he has let it go unmentioned for two years then? Maybe he has not been a supportive partner with her emotional issues or family issues, and that has contributed MORE to her lack of motivation and weight gain? Again, if it's only a problem b/c he thinks now she is fat, he is a douche. If on the other hand he is worried about her OVERALL health -- mental, physical and otherwise -- then he is being a concerned partner. Maybe if he helped her address her other "issues", her depression would get better and she would be more motivated to exercise again.
Jersey Shortie Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 She's been letting herself go for 2 years now. How's he shallow for finally losing interest after she's been lazy for 2 years! It's not like he hasn't tried and it's been 2 months. I suspect she isn't the only "lazy" one in the relationship.
Hkizzle Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 But why he has let it go unmentioned for two years then? Maybe he has not been a supportive partner with her emotional issues or family issues, and that has contributed MORE to her lack of motivation and weight gain? Again, if it's only a problem b/c he thinks now she is fat, he is a douche. If on the other hand he is worried about her OVERALL health -- mental, physical and otherwise -- then he is being a concerned partner. Maybe if he helped her address her other "issues", her depression would get better and she would be more motivated to exercise again. Wow, you even read the OP? He's been subtly trying to motivate her many times. What you mean he let it go unmentioned?
stace79 Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Wow, you even read the OP? He's been subtly trying to motivate her many times. What you mean he let it go unmentioned? It's all been weight-focused. Nothing about addressing the serious problems that can contribute to overall depression.
Hkizzle Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 It's all been weight-focused. Nothing about addressing the serious problems that can contribute to overall depression. Well MAYBE that's why he posted a thread to ask for help. Read what he says "ITS KILLING ME", he hasn't dumped her has he? It's not like he's a shrink, he doesn't know what to do.
Jaytb Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 And I still stand by my point that if we reversed the situation and a woman was here saying how much money deteremined her attraction to her partner, and if he lost his money, was laid off or had a decrease in his pay or 401K, that her attraction would be less and worried about his level to provide. Instead of supporting him the time he needed it most. I think the male response would be VASTLY different. how is that equivalent? Income is going to depend on a lot of things, some of which the individual has no control over (how well the company is doing, how well the economy is doing, etc). Weight is going to depend on two things: how much you eat, and how much energy you burn. I completely control what I eat and how much, how about you? And the amount of energy I burn is going to be proportional to my exercise level. Yeah, I know all about slow metabolisms (which I think I have). But in general, weight is controllable, while income isn't as controllable (it is somewhat controllable, but it will depend on a lot of other factors).
Hkizzle Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 how is that equivalent? Income is going to depend on a lot of things, some of which the individual has no control over (how well the company is doing, how well the economy is doing, etc). Weight is going to depend on two things: how much you eat, and how much energy you burn. I completely control what I eat and how much, how about you? And the amount of energy I burn is going to be proportional to my exercise level. Yeah, I know all about slow metabolisms (which I think I have). But in general, weight is controllable, while income isn't as controllable (it is somewhat controllable, but it will depend on a lot of other factors). Yeah good point, but again Jersey is ignoring the fact that 2 YEARS is a friggin long time. If I was a woman and a man lost his job and didn't get a new job or a crap job for 2 YEARS that's different from having a short term bad patch.
stace79 Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 how is that equivalent? Income is going to depend on a lot of things, some of which the individual has no control over (how well the company is doing, how well the economy is doing, etc). Weight is going to depend on two things: how much you eat, and how much energy you burn. I completely control what I eat and how much, how about you? And the amount of energy I burn is going to be proportional to my exercise level. Yeah, I know all about slow metabolisms (which I think I have). But in general, weight is controllable, while income isn't as controllable (it is somewhat controllable, but it will depend on a lot of other factors). If someone has true clinical depression, it is not as controllable as you think. The mind and the chemicals involved in depression are pretty complex. You may say it's as simple as getting your butt on a treadmill, but people with honest-to-God clinical depression may have serious reasons why they lack the motivation to do so. Additionally, when trying to simply keep yourself sane, if eating is a way to comfort oneself, your brain will dictate you do that through self-preservation. I will agree that many people are over- or misdiagnosed with depression, but this girl has what sound like some serious problems that could contribute to this eating and weight gain that are not simply a lack of willpower.
Jaytb Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Yeah good point, but again Jersey is ignoring the fact that 2 YEARS is a friggin long time. If I was a woman and a man lost his job and didn't get a new job or a crap job for 2 YEARS that's different from having a short term bad patch. yeah but in the United States we've been in a major recession for nearly 2 years now. Sometimes a reduced income is unavoidable.
Jaytb Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 If someone has true clinical depression, it is not as controllable as you think. The mind and the chemicals involved in depression are pretty complex. You may say it's as simple as getting your butt on a treadmill, but people with honest-to-God clinical depression may have serious reasons why they lack the motivation to do so. Additionally, when trying to simply keep yourself sane, if eating is a way to comfort oneself, your brain will dictate you do that through self-preservation. I will agree that many people are over- or misdiagnosed with depression, but this girl has what sound like some serious problems that could contribute to this eating and weight gain that are not simply a lack of willpower. you don't really know if she has depression or not. I think she was just stressed out. That's way different than full on depression.
Jersey Shortie Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 how is that equivalent? Income is going to depend on a lot of things, some of which the individual has no control over (how well the company is doing, how well the economy is doing, etc). Weight is going to depend on two things: how much you eat, and how much energy you burn. I completely control what I eat and how much, how about you? And the amount of energy I burn is going to be proportional to my exercise level. Yeah, I know all about slow metabolisms (which I think I have). But in general, weight is controllable, while income isn't as controllable (it is somewhat controllable, but it will depend on a lot of other factors). Both are controllable depending the amount of work you wnt to put into something. You can't control getting laid off or a poor economy but you can control how hard you work at your job or how much you try to get a new one or even a better paying one. There are factors in both situations that are completely controlable and there are factors in both that make it hard to use control. I think the money comparison is fair. If men that love us are going to judge us by our weight, then it's fair to judge a man by his income. If I gain weight or he looses money, we can both feel less satisfied with the relationship on those factors. Neither is less shallow then the other.
Hkizzle Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 yeah but in the United States we've been in a major recession for nearly 2 years now. Sometimes a reduced income is unavoidable. I used to be a banker, I know what reduced income means! haha I think she meant no job, or a really crap job. But again my point is that sticking with someone for a few months is important. 2 YEARS is a long time!
stace79 Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 So this conversation is making me curious -- what are you shallow guys going to do when you and your wife are 60, 65 and so on -- when looks naturally fade? Even a slim woman will develop wrinkles, gray hair, age spots, etc. What do you have left on which to base your relationship?
EarthGirl Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 If someone has true clinical depression, it is not as controllable as you think. The mind and the chemicals involved in depression are pretty complex. You may say it's as simple as getting your butt on a treadmill, but people with honest-to-God clinical depression may have serious reasons why they lack the motivation to do so. Additionally, when trying to simply keep yourself sane, if eating is a way to comfort oneself, your brain will dictate you do that through self-preservation. I will agree that many people are over- or misdiagnosed with depression, but this girl has what sound like some serious problems that could contribute to this eating and weight gain that are not simply a lack of willpower. wow I really appreciate what you are saying here Stace, cause the truth is this thread is almost identical to my situation...and...no one ever has really acknowledged these aspects of my situation before. Only myself..not my therapists, psychiatrists, not my family. Although my brother and sister are quite supportive of me consistently (parents not so much unfortunately but me and my siblings are very very close and they are the kindest and most wonderful people I know- I really am not sure how we all came from these parents of ours). At least in that they do not put me down,and they give me words of encouragement, contact me once a week or so by email or phone (they live in other states). Go out of their way when I need their help with something. And my sis is a professional dancer and personal trainer and generally likes to learn about nutrition and health in her little spare time (she lives in NYC, a very busy intense existence, struggling financially-working hard, running all over the city etc), so she knows a little about fitness...I also have a cousin who is a nurse and her father a doctor (though I am not particularly close to them, we have a close family in that once you're family, you're in for good, you know? even if you disagree sometimes, and my cousin is a very special person, I wish I could see her more often-also in another state though) ...And I know that I am always welcome to ask for free help/advice, within reason anyway, and they have mentioned it (not too many times, I know they don't want to but in and push too much) but the truth is what I have really needed was a little validation of my pain, emotional that is...or else I was never gonna get anywhere anyway, you know? And no amount of exercise tips from my sis was gonna help cause I would not do them or I would do them once and not keep up. It's been so frustrating it is not to be believed, for everyone around me, and for me most of all. Anyway, your post is very helpful for me, thanks so much....really cannot thank you enough.
Thaddeus Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 So this conversation is making me curious -- what are you shallow guys going to do when you and your wife are 60, 65 and so on -- when looks naturally fade? Even a slim woman will develop wrinkles, gray hair, age spots, etc. What do you have left on which to base your relationship?You're making an unwarranted assumption that colors your entire question - that is, if someone (man or woman) has preferences as to body style or whatever, they're automatically shallow. I reject that hypothesis outright. There's also a world of difference between the normal changes that a person goes through as they age and a deliberate "letting one's self go" while sitting on the couch eating cookies as soon as they're in a relationship.
Jersey Shortie Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 So this conversation is making me curious -- what are you shallow guys going to do when you and your wife are 60, 65 and so on -- when looks naturally fade? Even a slim woman will develop wrinkles, gray hair, age spots, etc. What do you have left on which to base your relationship? I think alot of women ask themselves that same question daily. I mean, we mock women for being insecure, and I am not saying it justifies being completely insecure but women are sent strong messages about our worth based on fleeting factors. Where does that leave us? A little bit in left field apparently. Don't you guys think we would all love to be gorgeous, glossy and perfect? The ideal of what you desire? Of course. But real life happens and we aren't images on a paper or movie stars that can devout our life to trendy diets and 5 hour work outs. Maybe you guys can cut us a break. most women are trying even if we don't reach your ideal about what you wished we looked like.
Hkizzle Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 So this conversation is making me curious -- what are you shallow guys going to do when you and your wife are 60, 65 and so on -- when looks naturally fade? Even a slim woman will develop wrinkles, gray hair, age spots, etc. What do you have left on which to base your relationship? Haha, well since I'm shallow, I might as well live it to the full. I'll make lots of money and trade in a new woman every couple of years just like Hugh.
Jersey Shortie Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 You can laugh and joke about it Hizzle but it's just that attutide about women that makes us question how much men really respect or value us.
Hkizzle Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 You can laugh and joke about it Hizzle but it's just that attutide about women that makes us question how much men really respect or value us. Oh that's just so friggin insecure. Comedians and people in general make jokes about all sorts of things that people are sensitive about. Hey I'm Asian and I always come across small dick jokes about Asians. I don't have a small dick btw, but even if I did why bother crying about it? IT'S A JOKE!
stace79 Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 You're making an unwarranted assumption that colors your entire question - that is, if someone (man or woman) has preferences as to body style or whatever, they're automatically shallow. I reject that hypothesis outright. There's also a world of difference between the normal changes that a person goes through as they age and a deliberate "letting one's self go" while sitting on the couch eating cookies as soon as they're in a relationship. You can have preferences, and certainly you can choose a woman to marry or date based partly on her appearance, but these statements leave me to wonder if there is anything of substance in these relationships. If 30 pounds will cause you to end it, then what value did a woman bring to you other than a physical body you desire to sleep with? It seems that men will overlook a great deal of things -- jealousy, high maintenance, annoying habits, lack of intelligence, lack of a career -- but put on 15 or 20 pounds? Three strikes, you're out!
Hkizzle Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 If 30 pounds will cause you to end it It's 35 lbs btw, HUGE difference! (That's a joke too) Listen, you want the guy to be a friggin robot? He says he's not attracted and been unhappy with the girl for 2 years. You really want people to lose their free will? People can't help losing attraction. I've had girls dump me for various reasons (sniff) and I don't cry about it. They have their own reasons. Why the hell is weight ANY different? I want all my EXs to have me back now..........
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