silic0ntoad Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Well, according to some here, having standards makes you shallow. And this coming from certain posters who insist they "won't settle." Go figure... My point exactly. I am the type of person who doesn't settle til I have what I want, and I am upfront and honest about it. Like me for me, or don't like me, really, there are 2,999,999,999 other women out there for me to try. As far as being shallow is concerned, it only pertains to guys with women. Perfect example. I don't date bigger girls, for the reasons above. My friend melissa doesn't date bigger guys but she is a bigger girl. She claims I am shallow because I am not attracted to bigger girls for personality, etc. Yet, when I claim she is shallow for thinking the same way, I am bastardized and demonized. Lame.
Sam Spade Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 The big issue for women, I suppose, is that when men complain that they dont keep the same figure they had at 18 or 21, it comes across that NOTHING in the R is more important than the woman's physical appearance. They're so focused on weight, a guy is willing to throw away an entire R over it. Does nothing in the R carry more weight than her weight? Pun unintended. Well, that's exactly the quilt trip I'm talking about. In the absence of sexual attraction I can (and do) have just as good a relationship with my best (male) friends. So, yes, it's that important. The thought experiment about the amazing person in a crappy body is just that - a thought experiment. Nobody is THAT amazing so that they completely stop caring about how others perceive them ant still be showered with affection. Conversely, if weight was the *ONLY* factor in relationships, you wouldn't have guys like the OP wondering how to make things better, since he already sees many good things about the relationship. Instead, we'd be dumping the fat asses right away Also, nobody is expecting a 40 year old to look like a 20 year old. But it's only fair to expect a 40 year old to look like a healthy 40 year old, and it is certainly not fair to expect accepting a 30 year old to look like a 40 year old. More importantly, there are no biological reasons for gaining a lot of weight with age. It's all behavioral. People just eat more and become more sedentary as they age. That's why they get fat, not because of age. yes, metabolism slows, but it only takes marginal changes in diet and exsercise to counter that.
Jaytb Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 An inaccurate analogy, Thaddeus. She's still working and to the best of my knowledge, since it's not referenced, still believes in personal hygience. That she's no longer ambitious about maintaining her previous exercise program, thus weight, due to (as mentioned by the opening poster) her relationship with her mother and being exhausted, sounds more like depression. As long as you're okay that women leave men when they hit a low point in their lives which is solely reflected through weight gain, then you're not being hypocritical. I do agree that we should have compassion instead of just straight up throwing away a relationship because of her weight. I don't expect someone to stay at the same weight their entire life, but I do want to see some effort to stay in shape. It is a good analogy to a guy not shaving and not showering and stuff like that, mainly because it's all about whether or not you give an effort to look your best for your partner. So if you're a woman and you never work out again and eat junk all the time, then don't be too surprised if your guy dresses like a slob and never shaves again. It's only fair
silic0ntoad Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 I do agree that we should have compassion instead of just straight up throwing away a relationship because of her weight. I don't expect someone to stay at the same weight their entire life, but I do want to see some effort to stay in shape. It is a good analogy to a guy not shaving and not showering and stuff like that, mainly because it's all about whether or not you give an effort to look your best for your partner. So if you're a woman and you never work out again and eat junk all the time, then don't be too surprised if your guy dresses like a slob and never shaves again. It's only fair My point is this. Not that you gain weight. It happens to most people as they age. But DON'T bitch about it and do nothing to change it. That sh*t just makes me irate.
Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 I do agree that we should have compassion instead of just straight up throwing away a relationship because of her weight. I don't expect someone to stay at the same weight their entire life, but I do want to see some effort to stay in shape. It is a good analogy to a guy not shaving and not showering and stuff like that, mainly because it's all about whether or not you give an effort to look your best for your partner. So if you're a woman and you never work out again and eat junk all the time, then don't be too surprised if your guy dresses like a slob and never shaves again. It's only fair If people are staying in shape for solely looks to attract a mate, instead of a real belief in staying healthy (gender aside), it will never stick. As soon as they get into a long-term relationship that's secure, they're going to stop doing it and gain weight. No, because in the example provided, the man in question also gained 35 pounds. Make the analogy, issue for issue, which is what you've done by adding in equal components. But...that analogy isn't applicable in this scenario or at least it hasn't been made factual by the OP. He states she's become a "coach" potato, which for some people with low metabolic rates, can equal weight gain. Nowhere does he say that she's gorging on junk food or that she's low on hygience or isn't dressing in an acceptable fashion. All the OP has stated, is that she's gained weight due to her family life which is causing her inactivity. That's why I'm coming down hard on the shallow side. She's going through a low time in her life. Either he's going to try to support her through her low times, instead of adding stress to her life about her weight, or he should walk, since he doesn't have what it takes to be compassionate and supportive.
loveslife Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 If people are staying in shape for solely looks to attract a mate, instead of a real belief in staying healthy (gender aside), it will never stick. As soon as they get into a long-term relationship that's secure, they're going to stop doing it and gain weight. All the OP has stated, is that she's gained weight due to her family life which is causing her inactivity. I have had weight ups and downs. And what it has come down to for me is I want to be in shape because I feel better and can do more. I want to be active and healthy. This girl is still relatively young and probably feels bad about herself for gaining weight. When someone says, "I feel fat" what they're really saying is, "I'm not good enough." She has gained a lot of weight in a relatively short period of time. If there's no physical reason (aka thyroid) then it's probably depression-driven. I gained five pounds this summer because I was really stressed about a couple of situations and decided to punish myself with bad food. Weird, right. The wiring is totally wrong. It happens. I'm losing the weight now. My advice is not to ignore the weight gain but instead to say things like, you seem unhappy. I'd like to discuss it with you. Turn the discussion to the deeper or ruling issue. The weight gain is just a symptom of that. Depression doesn't just affect the people it afflicts. It affects their loved ones, too. Maybe you can talk to someone about how best to help your girlfriend get better. It might be that you can't help her and will need to help yourself. And by the way I don't think it's shallow to not want to be physical with someone overweight. Even if you love them it can be a turn off.
Jaytb Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 If people are staying in shape for solely looks to attract a mate, instead of a real belief in staying healthy (gender aside), it will never stick. As soon as they get into a long-term relationship that's secure, they're going to stop doing it and gain weight. exactly! Do it for health reasons first, and looking good is a nice side benefit! But...that analogy isn't applicable in this scenario or at least it hasn't been made factual by the OP. He states she's become a "coach" potato, which for some people with low metabolic rates, can equal weight gain. Nowhere does he say that she's gorging on junk food or that she's low on hygience or isn't dressing in an acceptable fashion. All the OP has stated, is that she's gained weight due to her family life which is causing her inactivity. Couch potato means lazy. I think everyone should try not to be a couch potato! It's hard on the body believe it or not (actually if I stay in bed without sleeping, I end up with headaches and nausea. I need to walk around) That's why I'm coming down hard on the shallow side. She's going through a low time in her life. Either he's going to try to support her through her low times, instead of adding stress to her life about her weight, or he should walk, since he doesn't have what it takes to be compassionate and supportive. A low time? maybe, that's why being supportive is the right thing to do for now (I don't think the original poster is indicating he'll just dump her right now.) But when times get better for her (if they haven't already), will she still be a couch potato?
Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 My advice is not to ignore the weight gain but instead to say things like, you seem unhappy. I'd like to discuss it with you. Turn the discussion to the deeper or ruling issue. The weight gain is just a symptom of that. You're going to immediately put someone on the defensive, if you start harping on the weight gain. She knows she's gained weight. Yes, the deeper issues, if she can learn to cope in a healthy way, should help to alleviate any further weight gain. Once she's back on her feet emotionally, then you can encourage her to work on getting back to healthy. One thing that's not discussed, is how tall is she? This is really pertinent.
loveslife Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 You're going to immediately put someone on the defensive, if you start harping on the weight gain. She knows she's gained weight. Yes, the deeper issues, if she can learn to cope in a healthy way, should help to alleviate any further weight gain. Once she's back on her feet emotionally, then you can encourage her to work on getting back to healthy. One thing that's not discussed, is how tall is she? This is really pertinent. I think TBF has really pinpointed two important issues. She does know she has gained weight. And she has probably done so as a coping mechanism, just the same as people who drink alcohol or take drugs or focus a lot on work to numb the pain. If she's been doing this for a while it won't necessarily be easy for her to change. But if she does not take this responsibility for her health it will only get worse. If she refuses to help herself I really don't know if there's a lot you can do. Good luck.
sweetjasmine Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Just as women will get offended if guy issues them ultimatum over their weight, guys get offended by the actual fact of gaining weight because they interpret it as disrespect. There are plenty of causes for weight gain that have nothing to do with you. Not everything's a case of "I don't care anymore and I'm letting myself go on purpose". So, by extension, if it were the guy to all of a sudden put on 35 extra pounds, stop shaving and showering and basically lose any motivation to better himself, and she left him because of it, she's shallow too, right? Or is this yet-another double-standard? As TBF pointed out, the bit about showering and not shaving is added on. But if my SO putting on 35 extra pounds and losing the motivation to take care of himself happened to be accompanied by major life changes and depression, I'd be worrying about deeper problems than "he doesn't turn me on as much anymore."
Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 I'd also like to stress the part about her height. If her previous weight is considered underweight and now, she's in the normal category, I think that priorities are a tad skewed.
Sam Spade Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 There are plenty of causes for weight gain that have nothing to do with you. Not everything's a case of "I don't care anymore and I'm letting myself go on purpose". Maybe not explicitly, but whatever other reason you name - depression, stress, etc. the bottom line is that this is a defeatist attitude - as in "I can't deal with it right now". Expecting a partner to accept it *long* term (the attitude, and the weight) is unfair. Even if you can't find time or energy to exercise, it costs no time or effort to reduce calorie intake.
sweetjasmine Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Maybe not explicitly, but whatever other reason you name - depression, stress, etc. the bottom line is that this is a defeatist attitude - as in "I can't deal with it right now". Some people can't deal with it right now. Have you ever been clinically depressed? People pack on weight for all sorts of reasons, and it can be incredibly difficult for some people to simply maintain their weight. There are dozens of physical causes for weight gain in addition to emotional/psychological problems that trigger loss of motivation and increased appetite. If your gf had to take meds for a medical problem and gained weight as a side effect, would you tell her that she's being defeatist and just needs to exert a little effort to make herself look good for you? That the OP's gf used to have completely different habits but has since gone through significant changes suggests to me that something else is going on besides "she up and turned lazy because she doesn't care anymore". Even if you can't find time or energy to exercise, it costs no time or effort to reduce calorie intake. It does take a great deal of effort if you stress eat or rely on eating as a comfort and are having trouble solving the underlying problems that are causing the stress. I'm the type of person who loses weight when depressed. I lost about ten pounds in 2-3 months because I literally couldn't force myself to eat and had absolutely no appetite, and it was all caused by depression and stress. If my SO had said, "Just eat more, you're being defeatist!" or "It's disrespectful to me that you're 'letting yourself go' " I would've been extremely pissed at him. Instead, he gave me helpful suggestions as to how I could cope with the situation I was in and instead of criticizing me, he was supportive.
loveslife Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 I'd also like to stress the part about her height. If her previous weight is considered underweight and now, she's in the normal category, I think that priorities are a tad skewed. Good point. How tall is she?
stace79 Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Well, with this attitude, you could marry any woman who has fake boobs and frequently gets lipo, who also eats nothing but salad and coke (and I'm not talking about soda) and you will be happy then, seeing as all it takes is a certain size woman to suit you. Well, that's exactly the quilt trip I'm talking about. In the absence of sexual attraction I can (and do) have just as good a relationship with my best (male) friends. So, yes, it's that important. The thought experiment about the amazing person in a crappy body is just that - a thought experiment. Nobody is THAT amazing so that they completely stop caring about how others perceive them ant still be showered with affection. Conversely, if weight was the *ONLY* factor in relationships, you wouldn't have guys like the OP wondering how to make things better, since he already sees many good things about the relationship. Instead, we'd be dumping the fat asses right away Also, nobody is expecting a 40 year old to look like a 20 year old. But it's only fair to expect a 40 year old to look like a healthy 40 year old, and it is certainly not fair to expect accepting a 30 year old to look like a 40 year old. More importantly, there are no biological reasons for gaining a lot of weight with age. It's all behavioral. People just eat more and become more sedentary as they age. That's why they get fat, not because of age. yes, metabolism slows, but it only takes marginal changes in diet and exsercise to counter that.
Sam Spade Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Well, with this attitude, you could marry any woman who has fake boobs and frequently gets lipo, who also eats nothing but salad and coke (and I'm not talking about soda) and you will be happy then, seeing as all it takes is a certain size woman to suit you. No, I'll marry a woman who actually pays attention to what i say. A skill that eludes fatties, along with self control, apparently.
silic0ntoad Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Wow this has turned quite bitter. All I am saying is: Don't lose yourself due to comfort.
Author cubbies4me34 Posted September 24, 2009 Author Posted September 24, 2009 Much appreciated with everyone's replies. I wasn't expecting so many so quickly. But I'm grateful for everyone doing so. It's certainly a hard position for me because she is really a fantastic girl underneath all the craziness and whatever else there is. And I do see glimpses of the girl I fell in love with come out. I suppose why I asked is because I'm at a point where I do want to move further with my life and settle down in the near future. And if things stay the way they are, I'm sure I wouldn't want to stay in this relationship. And I really think it's unfair to label myself as a 'fat person hater' or think that I'd ever despise my wife if she was pregnant with my child. To whoever said that, I think that's extremely insensitive. That's something natural and part of life. I'm on here to try and figure out a way to salvage what was an amazing and beautiful thing, into a slowly swirling trip down into oblivion.... Anyways.... I'm really saddened by the situation because I see a girl that I've been with for so long and really enjoyed a lot of our time together, turn into something that I never thought I'd see. I just wanted to say thanks for your help! I've picked up some ideas. Thanks again!
kiss_andmakeup Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 You're not shallow at all. 115 to 150 is a huge change...and it is unlikely that if you were attracted to her at 115lbs, that you'd still find her attractive at 150 (unless extenuating circumstances applied, or she was pregnant with your child, of course). It's not even just the physical part...it's an unappealing lifestyle. If you're motivated, healthy, active, and take good care of yourself, it is unattractive to have a partner who is overweight, out of shape, unmotivated, and unhealthy. I actually had to have a similar conversation with my boyfriend recently. When we met he was in great shape, worked out every day, ate healthy, and had general concern for his physical well-being. In the past few months the working out has gone from 6 days a week to 0, and he is constantly eating junk food. Needless to say he's put on more than a few pounds. I just made sure to remind him throughout the conversation that I love him, care about him, and am only bringing this topic up at all because I love him and want our relationship to succeed. Just make sure to speak very delicately with her, use lots of "I love you"s, and avoid the words "fat" or "overweight" at all costs. You will probably have to walk on eggshells a bit more than I did since women can be much more sensitive about this topic than men.
D-Lish Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 I say you should tell her. If I was in the same situation, I'd respond to it. But... As TBF said, if you have a penchant for skinny girls and your idea of "fat" is skewed- you need to re-evaluate things. If not- be straight up, tell her it bothers you.
Yamaha Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Straight up cubbies, yes, it is shallow. If you honestly loved her as a person, this wouldn't be an issue. So, let's pretend that she loses the weight but then, the two of you settle down, get married and she gets pregnant. Will her bloated body turn you off? What happens if she has to go on some form of meds and gains weight? Your g/f sounds depressed. Her home environment or at minimum, relationship with her mother, is messing with her emotional well-being, which is messing with her physical appearance. Instead of getting on her case about her weight, is there no way that you can try to help her work through her family issues? I'm also guessing that since she's graduated, she has nothing to distract her from her family life. This doesn't mean you have to take responsibility for her actions. But it does mean that some compassion, empathy and real love, might make a difference. If this relationship doesn't work, next time, pick someone who not only lives the lifestyle while single, but believes in the healthy lifestyle, at core, or is so wrapped up in shallowness, that she'll stay thin just to avoid being labelled as fat. Good post. Yes, OP. You are being shallow. If her weight gain is such as issue you need to let her go because you will probably find something else wrong with her in the future. You accept someone that you love and do your best to support them not dump them when issues arise.
seoa Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 And I do see glimpses of the girl I fell in love with come out. I suppose why I asked is because I'm at a point where I do want to move further with my life and settle down in the near future. And if things stay the way they are, I'm sure I wouldn't want to stay in this relationship. You haven't responded re: the depression... Are you more concerned with her weight, than with the fact that she's not been happy for the last 2 years...? Do you maybe think that her unhappiness with life is a bigger deal (to both of you) than the weight gain...? That maybe the weight gain (as so many of us have tried to say) is a *symptom* of her unhappiness...? I can understand if you don't want to marry someone who is depressed - it's hard work... But at least admit that that's what you're doing... And I really think it's unfair to label myself as a 'fat person hater' or think that I'd ever despise my wife if she was pregnant with my child. To whoever said that, I think that's extremely insensitive. That's something natural and part of life. Well, yes and no... She might be all glow-y and gorgeous while pregnant (some are, some aren't), but afterwards you're likely going to be dealing with stretch marks (that fade but never disappear completely), with things that now sag where they didn't use to sag, with different size breasts (some increase, some shrink to nothing), with weight gain that she cannot shift (due to 'baby blues' or complex surgery or being completely knackered with a baby who can't sleep)... So it's realistic, but not insensitive... You will also age - the difference is (in my experience, and in that of my many female friends) is that a lot of guys just don't believe their bodies are not perfect...
stace79 Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 No, I'll marry a woman who actually pays attention to what i say. A skill that eludes fatties, along with self control, apparently. You are the one who claimed that without sexual attraction, you may as well be dating one of your male friends. So you could insert any ridiculously thin woman into the role of "girlfriend" for you.
Jersey Shortie Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 No, I'll marry a woman who actually pays attention to what i say. A skill that eludes fatties, along with self control, apparently. It's not so much that you don't like over weight women, but your lack of maturity is transparent when you revert to name calling like a 12 year old boy. This is what distinguishes the boys from the men. I digress. OP, yes you are being shallow. Is it bad to want your partner to be slim and how she looked when you met her? Not at all. But the truth is, women's bodies do infact change. We are human beings. We have stressors and life issues just like men. I am personally more concerned by your girlfriends troubles and her depression then I am about her weight right now. And if you really cared about her, you would be too. Here you clearly understand your girlfriend is having a tough time at life right now and you are mroe concerned with how thin she is. I don't know, to me that seems like your priorities are out of wack. Could you imagine women sitting around saying that their husband's lack of income makes them feel disrespected? That that must mean he doesn't care about her. That he should do everything he can to bust his butt to make more money to show his love? That his lack of income makes her less attrracted to him? How the tables would be turned and how the men would be frustrated and hurt by the woman's lack to appreciate the man behind the money. Food for thought Gentlemen. Love means supporting your partner even when they aren't at their best. Not only supporting them when they most please you.
EarthGirl Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 yeah I don't think it's shallow at all. I really think we need to change our idea of "shallow" in this society. Shallow is when someone can't see past someone's looks, status, color of skin, job, etc. to the person inside and cannot appreciate who that person is in a genuine way. Shallow I guess can also mean someone who does not think "deeply" ....who prioritizes material things, either for cheap pleasure ...sex without love, expensive trendy clothing that isn't really any better than less expensive, a certain lifestyle where you can get anything you want whenever you want and don't think about those less fortunate, putting physical comfort above mental and emotional growth, or putting admiration of strangers of physical beauty or even artistic/intellectual talent as an ego boost above a loving give and take relationship/friendship that is based on who eachother really are as people, etc. But as far as preference in an intimate romantic and sexual relationship, no matter what anybody else thinks of it...we all have a right to choose who we give our own body (and soul) too..even if there are "conditions". We are so judgemental about that ...and yet we have the whole celebrity culture where fat people are judged and humiliated on TV shows and we have magazines that rate which celebrities have the best beach bodies and which look the grossest and put them on the cover...As if that actually says something about how good of people they are. That is implied EVERY DAY. It is implied on ET and Access or whatever that if you are beautiful on the outside, you are beautiful on the inside, and if you are ugly on the outside, you are ugly on the inside. Now you say this doesn't make logical sense?... this is not what our mamas taught us, beauty is on the inside, right? But the way they validate this bogus theory (only IMPLIED again, but it is easy to see) is that if you are fat, that obviously means you don't exercise (which may be true, but is beside the point in this instance), which means you are lazy, which means you are a bad person....so therefore again, to them, ugly=bad. We are ok with that, but we are not ok with someone choosing what their OWN sexual/romantic life will be like and who they will get naked with? Real "shallow-ness" is when someone judges another based on what they look like, where they come from, etc. This guy is not judging his girlfriend on who she really is inside, he simply would prefer her outside were thinner and healthier looking for the sake of their intimate life, which like it or not has everything to do with BODIES. And we as human beings are biologically predispositioned to be "attracted" to healthy, young, and attractive individuals. And not all of us are comfortable with anything goes no matter how hard we may try and no matter how much we DO love unconditionally. Again, there is no condition on love, only on sex. So no I don't think it's shallow at all, but I know I think differently about it than a lot of people, and have the same issue myself (which has been a problem sometimes). If you need your girlfriend to lose weight for the sake of your sex life and in fact your whole relationship probably...just tell her outright, don't beat around the bush cause it will make it worse in the end and you are more likely to say something stupid accidentally. Just keep it simple, just say it, don't be ashamed. If I were her I would not be offended at all. What I would NOT do if I were you, is to theorize on WHY she ended up fat...especially when talking with her herself ..you are not her psychologist you are her boyfriend, don't TELL her why you think this has happened to HER body, because she has been in her body the whole time, as well as in her mind, and her own life circumstances, you have not. Especially don't tell her you think it is because she is lazy, because most often that is NOT the true cause...I suppose there are people that are just lazy out there (but guess what, not all of them are fat either), but most often there are underlying causes that cause them to NOT DO certain things such as exercise and to compulsively DO things like overeating, that have little to with with out and out laziness, and often they are people who work their butts off in other areas of life for the sake of the wellbeing of other people. To me it would be a HUGE betrayal if my boyfriend decided to tell me that I was fat just because I was lazy and a "couch potato"...But if he told me that he misses the beautiful body I used to have and he loves me regardless but he thought I was very beautiful and he will support me the whole way and be my cheerleader (but NOT jailkeeper, as in making comments if she indulges every once in a while- you really need to cause even if it takes a few more months to lose all the weight, if you NEVER indulge in a treat occasionally, most people will fail inevitably and gain back all the weight they lost plus more-anyway nothing could be more detrimental to your relationship than acting as her monitor, it will suck any romance you ever had out of the relationship, regardless of if both of you are totally hot and gorgeous.)...If he did that, I would certainly give it the best shot I ever gave anything.
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