Dear Commitment phobes, HEEEEELP! (especially men)

[ecm]

I hear ya. Well, we are not the ones with the issues, they are. At least we walk away being us.

 

I guess. Hmph. I bet mine is siting at home, playing guitar, smokin whatever he is smoking, and not online with his new "bffs" lol.

 

ALPHA MALE: Do you think about the girls after you end it? (it's ok...hit me... I'm pretty fabulous (haha), so I might not be just "any girl" to him, though...)

[ecm]

Alpha Male-

 

I don't mean to get personal, I'm really just looking for insight from a man's perspective. (I assume you're a man by your name?? ) WHHHHYYYY would you let someone go who you love madly? Is is b/c you'd rather be alone than potentially be hurt? So when you feel someone has the potential to hurt you, you're out?

[audrey_1]

Audrey- I just looked what city yo live in to make sure we weren't dating the same guy.

 

Hee Hee. I don't think he's ever been to New York, but he could definitely benefit from some mind-expanding travel, IMO.

 

Stone. No I love you....EXCEPT one time when it snuck out and you would have thought he just shat himself by the look on his face...like it was the worst thing he could EVER have done. Mine could never give in to showing any weakness...verbally. You too?

 

He let I love you slip out on two occasions, both during sex. Both times were very softly in my ear. *I* am the one who almost shat myself. I didn't say anything back, just kept moving my hips.

 

But oh well, it wasn't meant to be. Nice amusement park ride, though.

[ecm]

 

He let I love you slip out on two occasions, both during sex. Both times were very softly in my ear. *I* am the one who almost shat myself. I didn't say anything back, just kept moving my hips.

 

 

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

#1) I'm glad you didn't, as that was certainly an inopportune time. That might have really given him a reason to run. #2) "I just kept moving my hips". funniest thing I've heard to-date. OMG.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

 

Did he ever mention it after?

 

 

 

#2) "just

[audrey_1]

Nope. Not a word.

[ecm]

LC, NC, CP, WTF....can someone please point me to the glossary of what all these abbreviations mean?

 

Thanks everyone for you input... it makes each day a little easier...

 

And AAAAALLLLPPPHHHHAAAAA- I wanna hear more outta you, please ( I left a you a few questions to peruse.

 

 

Is that people communicate on here? I don't even know these things!

 

Going to watch Glee. Best. Show. Ever.

[audrey_1]

LC, NC, CP, WTF....can someone please point me to the glossary of what all these abbreviations mean?

 

Thanks everyone for you input... it makes each day a little easier...

 

And AAAAALLLLPPPHHHHAAAAA- I wanna hear more outta you, please ( I left a you a few questions to peruse.

 

 

Is that people communicate on here? I don't even know these things!

 

Going to watch Glee. Best. Show. Ever.

 

Limited Contact

No Contact

Commitment-Phobe(ic)

What the F#%*

 

Oh, and I doubt you'll be hearing from Alpha when it comes to the tough questions, which is just part and parcel for what we've been discussing.

[D-Lish]

I don't know- is it me, or is everyone a CP?

 

In my lifetime, I've dated too many people that have never dated anyone longer than 3 years. I see ex's on facebook never hitting the year mark over and over. I know since my ex husband, in 8 years, I haven't been capable of dating someone longer than a year.

 

I'm not sure if I choose CP's subconsciously, if I am a CP... ?

 

I don't think it's just guys- I know some girls as well.

 

So- are these people CP's- or realists? Maybe we simply aren't made to be bonded to a partner for life. Maybe the people that are content to move on after a few years or less are really reacting to a normal biological pattern that has been disrupted by religion, guilt, and culture. Perhaps in the age of freedom from cultural norms, people are feeling free to follow their biology?

[ecm]

Limited Contact

No Contact

Commitment-Phobe(ic)

What the F#%*

 

Oh, and I doubt you'll be hearing from Alpha when it comes to the tough questions, which is just part and parcel for what we've been discussing.

 

 

thanks, Audrey. I knew what the last 3 meant, I just mean abbreviations in general... and is everyone calling it NC b/c of that one post "caliguys' guide to NC"?

 

Hmmm. Funny. I would like to see if he answers. Kinda makes sense

[ecm]

I don't know- is it me, or is everyone a CP?

 

In my lifetime, I've dated too many people that have never dated anyone longer than 3 years. I see ex's on facebook never hitting the year mark over and over. I know since my ex husband, in 8 years, I haven't been capable of dating someone longer than a year.

 

I'm not sure if I choose CP's subconsciously, if I am a CP... ?

 

I don't think it's just guys- I know some girls as well.

 

So- are these people CP's- or realists? Maybe we simply aren't made to be bonded to a partner for life. Maybe the people that are content to move on after a few years or less are really reacting to a normal biological pattern that has been disrupted by religion, guilt, and culture. Perhaps in the age of freedom from cultural norms, people are feeling free to follow their biology?

 

Hmmm....interesting. Thanks. That's definitely a different way of looking at it. I am not one who needs to get married. I would be perfectly content with him just together as long as we are happy. It's just hard that they run when things are GOOD not BAD... I think the biology idea would make sense if he ran when things were BAD...

[audrey_1]

I don't know- is it me, or is everyone a CP?

 

In my lifetime, I've dated too many people that have never dated anyone longer than 3 years. I see ex's on facebook never hitting the year mark over and over. I know since my ex husband, in 8 years, I haven't been capable of dating someone longer than a year.

 

I'm not sure if I choose CP's subconsciously, if I am a CP... ?

 

I don't think it's just guys- I know some girls as well.

 

So- are these people CP's- or realists? Maybe we simply aren't made to be bonded to a partner for life. Maybe the people that are content to move on after a few years or less are really reacting to a normal biological pattern that has been disrupted by religion, guilt, and culture. Perhaps in the age of freedom from cultural norms, people are feeling free to follow their biology?

 

Interesting theory D-Lish. I admittedly exhibit some of these traits but am not sure whether I'm full-on CP. I broke my engagement, but in that situation, he truly just wasn't right for me. Jealous. Bad sex life. Too much older. All my LTR have been two or more years, but I know what you mean about most people not making it past a year. Those that aren't yet married, anyway. It seems rather tiring to me, though.

 

I've never really been one to subscribe to "social norms," which is why my particular CP-ish situation startled me. Seemed to me I would maintain his status-quo better than most. So he just wasn't that into me, or it doesn't really matter because someone who wants to bail will do just that, no matter what the external circumstances.

 

My biology just seems to crave something worthwhile and fulfilling, regardless of how long it lasts, if that makes sense. Lately, though, I'm having to settle for the flingy male types, basically just for amusement.

 

thanks, Audrey. I knew what the last 3 meant, I just mean abbreviations in general... and is everyone calling it NC b/c of that one post "caliguys' guide to NC"?

 

Hmmm. Funny. I would like to see if he answers. Kinda makes sense

 

No, it was coined "NC" here at LS (LoveShack) before CaliGuy articulated the "rules" that go along with it.

[pandagirl]

I'm not sure if I choose CP's subconsciously, if I am a CP... ?

 

I don't think it's just guys- I know some girls as well.

 

So- are these people CP's- or realists? Maybe we simply aren't made to be bonded to a partner for life. Maybe the people that are content to move on after a few years or less are really reacting to a normal biological pattern that has been disrupted by religion, guilt, and culture. Perhaps in the age of freedom from cultural norms, people are feeling free to follow their biology?

 

I don't think it's healthy to run away from someone you love and from someone who loves you. It says something about ourselves -- something that is lacking. I think real CPs are people who WANT love and commitment, but are too afraid to deal with it being real.

 

I don't think it's the commitment that scared CPs, I think it's the risks that involve getting too close to someone.

[ecm]

I'm going to continue with my new & favourite past-time on here, of quoting Steven Carter... (If you want a guy's viewpoint of being a CP, read his stuff, that's what it's there for...!)

 

 

 

 

seoa- Is Steven Carter's stuff on here somewhere?

[ecm]

never mind. I googled him. "Men Who Can't Love" good stuff, so far. thanks.

[galicat]

hey ecm. just found this post as suffering the exact same thing and would love to chat. i'm 5 years older than him at 33 years old. we have been togeather for 5 years. he is a cronic commitment phobe. like you i have never pressured (in fact i've never been a girl that's wanted to get married and thought about thaqt sort of stuff much). anyway, he has gone through stages of being full on, asking my family for permission to marry me, telling all our friends and proclaiming his undying love (all unsolicitored and off his own bat) and then WHAM!! distance, bad behaviour, excuses and blame. it's like he's fighting with himself, trying to convince himself that he wants marraige and kids etc then freaking out under the pressure he puts on himself. it drives me crazy! i'm not sure it's getting better either. recently he left the country where we lived to take some 'time out' and much of the time was in contact telling me how much he missed me, couldn't live without me, could never be with anyone else, just wanted to get married and settle down etc and then next thing he is off to the other side of the world. i'm done with it. i feel compassion for him as obviously a big problem he has and some ingrained issues but what can you do? i've been so gutted about his changes in tune so many times. it's really a joke now but everytime he wins me back he is SOOOO convincing. i think he turly believes it at the time but can't stick with anything (hasn't stayed in the same job for more than 6 motnhs since i've knowen him) and chews through friends and wears out his family like there is an endless supply. congratulations to you and i for being strong enough, cool enough and independant enough to have these guys in our lives. not suire if you have kids (i don't and i want them) but at some point i suppose you just have to give up on them. it's so hard when they admit they have a problem and want to do somthing about it but just keep repeating the same cycle. i do think my one is NPD (narcisstic) also. the more i read the more I think NPD and commitment phobia are closly related. here to chat if you need to offload )

[logitech]

I believe my ex is a CP...

[seoa]

never mind. I googled him. "Men Who Can't Love" good stuff, so far. thanks.

 

Yeah, that was his first book, and apparently (in his words) only describes the problem - his other 2 books are more useful, coz they say what to do about it...

 

Getting to Commitment - still just about the "active CP" (as in: the stuff that's really obvious - running when things are good), but does have the "what to do" (if your CP is willing to admit the problem & start work on it).

 

He's Scared, She's Scared - this is the latest of them, and also talks about the "passive CP" (as in: the people who continually get attracted to active-CPs are doing it because they don't want to commit themselves). Most people on here (except me, apparently) prefer this book...

[ecm]

galicat- it's funny. I never realized how many people have these same problems. So you're guy is across the world, proclaiming his love? I think mine is in hiding right now b/c of our last "exchange". Ended well, then drama, then we left it with apologies over texting. I think...HOPE he's emabarrassed for the way he handled himself. So, I'm not contacting him b/c I always do. What else about your story?

 

Seoa- I don't think my guy will ever ACTIVELY try to get better. His insane mother (who abandoned him- moved away with a new boyfriend-for a bit when he was a teenager) made him see therapists when he was younger. She's nuts- like legitimately nuts, so he has genetics working against him as well as negative feelings about therapy. I think his only hope of "changing" might be learning from his mistakes. I think that's what knocked it out of me. I dumped a guy. Months later, I saw him and thought "oh my God, what have I done". I just see a lot of similarites in my guy now to what I would do bakc then. So you don't like the last book? I might go buy one or two... but do you think they give you false hope or something? I feel like reading these might be a waste if I am supoosed to be walking away from this...

[ecm]

I'm going to continue with my new & favourite past-time on here, of quoting Steven Carter... (If you want a guy's viewpoint of being a CP, read his stuff, that's what it's there for...!)

 

 

 

So really, the normal break-up rule also applies to CPs - they don't tell you what they're really thinking, they say what they think you want to hear...

 

This is pretty much what my CP did... Told me that it was him, he couldn't do relationships - but I know what he was thinking was "This is your fault - if you were better in ways X, Y and Z then I would be able to do this."

 

CP is like any other phobia (like being frightened of flying) - the only person who can admit they have the problem is the sufferer, and only they can choose to get help... But they won't get help till they admit they have a problem, and most of them don't. You can wait for that to happen (far be it for me to tell you not to - coz that's what I'm doing) or you can move on, but chances are it probably won't, so you basically have to decide how much of your life you're willing to hand over to waiting (probably not much longer for me...)

 

Seoa, (and anyone else who cares to share thier thoughts) parts of this make sense to me, but parts of it don't: Here's the jist of mine: (trying with all my mite to not beat a dead horse or repeat things I've said...it's hard keeping track)....

 

1) said he didn't want a commitment, but acted differently; together 24/7

2) 3 months in he ran

3) came back in a month wanting a relationship

4) back and forth, cat and mouse for 2 years.

5) off for 2 years

6) I made 1st contact- happy bday text

7) back on & off (not committed) for the last year

8) we got close, starts to let guard down-

9) makes an "oops"- gets nervous- goes MIA for a week

10) we end things b/c he's nervous about the oops

various excuses- says I want more

says he DOESN'T love me

changes his story- he cant trust me

changes his story- but you want kids & I dont

various other things- see, he DIDN'T tell me what I "want to hear

11) the minute I didn't text him back for a day (when he is KING of hiding), he flipped & got nasty...so the fact that we "ended things well" was RUINED & we exchanged apologies via text...

 

I don't be one of those idiots who is blind, and I'm not really pining away fro him (even though I am sad and hurt). He SAYS he doens't love me, but when we're together everything points to the fact tat he does. Obviously this behavior points to NO, but it's just weird.

 

I used to work in sales, and my boss used to tell me that the people who say they aren't buying anything are the EASIEST to sell b/c that's just a defense mechanism. If I belieed he didn't love me, I'd move on like nobody's business, it's just so hard to believe when he acts the way he does.

 

Ugh. I hope this isn't all over the place...too much.

[Serena2009]

1) said he didn't want a commitment, but acted differently; together 24/7

2) 3 months in he ran

3) came back in a month wanting a relationship

4) back and forth, cat and mouse for 2 years.

5) off for 2 years

6) I made 1st contact- happy bday text

7) back on & off (not committed) for the last year

8) we got close, starts to let guard down-

9) makes an "oops"- gets nervous- goes MIA for a week

10) we end things b/c he's nervous about the oops

various excuses- says I want more

says he DOESN'T love me

changes his story- he cant trust me

changes his story- but you want kids & I dont

various other things- see, he DIDN'T tell me what I "want to hear

11) the minute I didn't text him back for a day (when he is KING of hiding), he flipped & got nasty...so the fact that we "ended things well" was RUINED & we exchanged apologies via text...

 

Ugh. I hope this isn't all over the place...too much.

 

ECM,

 

Well . . . it IS all over the place because HE'S all over the place!! Some of the hallmarks of CP are mixed signals and a back and forth relationship. It's a downright confusing rollercoaster ride and it's an unhealthy relationship. IMHO, the only way to bring health to a relationship with a CP is to step off the rollercoaster, focus the energy on loving yourself and deciding what you want in a relationship, set appropriate boundaries regarding what you're willing to accept, and then, if it's feasible, work to re-establish the relationship. But. . . the problem is that if he isn't willing to work on himself and change his uhealthy relationship patterns, all he can offer is the same ole roller coaster ride that will leave your head swirling and keep your stomach tied up in knots. You can't change him but you can change yourself. What it boils down to is a choice you have to make. Do you want to continue to ride the relationship roller coaster?

[seoa]

1) said he didn't want a commitment, but acted differently; together 24/7

2) 3 months in he ran

3) came back in a month wanting a relationship

4) back and forth, cat and mouse for 2 years.

 

CPs have problems with commitment, which often includes the commitment to breaking up...! They don't like to make a final decision on anything - they always need a way out - of the relationship, and out of the resulting singleness...

 

Rollercoaster!

 

various excuses- says I want more

says he DOESN'T love me

changes his story- he cant trust me

changes his story- but you want kids & I dont

various other things- see, he DIDN'T tell me what I "want to hear

 

He SAYS he doens't love me, but when we're together everything points to the fact tat he does.

 

OK, maybe "want" is the wrong word... They say stuff that they think will get them the result they want... They need water-tight excuses to get them out of the relationship, because it's got too frightening for them, what with their phobia 'n' all...

 

And they're not necessarily lying... It's all in the definition - if they convince themselves that "love" means they will have no problems with being in the relationship, and the fear will go away, and there will be no doubts...! Well, if there is fear, doubt and problems - it can't be love: PANIC...

[seoa]

I think his only hope of "changing" might be learning from his mistakes.

 

His only hope is admitting he has the problem, and he wants to change...

 

(Well, obviously that is only the start - then he'll need to deal with his dislike of therapists, and either get over it or find an alternative - but it is, unfortunately, the only starting point...)

 

So you don't like the last book? I might go buy one or two... but do you think they give you false hope or something? I feel like reading these might be a waste if I am supoosed to be walking away from this...

 

I found the last book more muddled - a lot less clear - but that's coz they were dealing with much more content, and so were qualifying things all over the place... But if you need to get info on the "passive CP" (the partner who picks the active-CP over and over), you need this book.

 

They don't give false hope - they are directed at the CP doing the work for resolving the problem - their primary use is in understanding it, so you aren't left going "why is this happening? - how could he leave when things were so good? - what suddenly changed for him...?"

 

They make it easier to understand, and to move on (or at least to understand your minimum requirements for him coming back, to avoid the cycle happening again...)

[galicat]

Right, just catching up on posts - should really be getting on with work but this whole topic definitly consumes a fair amout of down time. Not becqause i'm obsessed. it's more just an urge to make sense of it. basically, after years of the most heartbreaking and gutting flip flops i'm willing to concede that the best course of action is to just let go, be yourself and look at the whole situation objectivly instead of analysing and trying to fix it, figure it out or reflect on what you did, didn't or could have done differently.

 

my god it's hard, with reflection and hindsight i admit i made a few mistakes and have bet myself up for them. contstantly imrpoving and changing so i don't make these 'mistakes' again with him. really im just human and any of my transgressions (short temper/bad day for example) was nothing compared to his outbursts, moodiness and general inconsistancy. i was happy to try though and keep plugging away because he admitted he had a problem. he acknowledged his foibles and shortcommings and i knew that he was trying. we went to counciling, he went on a 3 day self help course, he cut back the drinking, stoped the substance abuse. tried to get a hold of himself and his moods and 'ups and downs' but the bottom line was, when things were good and close for a few days he would flip out.

 

we once went on a trip away and all was great then on the way back he just launched a verbal attack on me in the car bringing up some old crap. it was seriously loony. i was so shaken. he has done stuff like that loads but over the years i learned to hold my ground and not take it personally when he pushed me away like this. its like clockwork. things are smooth sailing and happy then he goes and sabotages. then the nerve, (like you ecm) he getz angry at me and trys to blame me for his bad behaviour. it's all about deflecting the blame for the hurt their issues cause becuase deep down they know it's not right and they don't want to upset you.

 

I believe it all stems from an abandonment complex at childhood. they were let down or felt insecure int he love they got. I feel i had a similar experiance and that is why, like you ecm, i have been commitment phobic, isolated, independant and someowhat moody and arrogant most of my life until i meet this man and a mirror image was held up to me. my god, what a learning experiance it has been. i seriously think i was becomming codependant - the antithisis of what i was previously.

 

they need to fall flat on their faces over and over and eventually have no one there to pick them up and lean on. this will happen when everyone eventually gets sick and tired of them. then, and i believe only then, will they realise that the emotional connection and support they want they have to work for. it's not always ideal but if they want it that's the deal. i think seoa was quite right with this: 'And they're not necessarily lying... It's all in the definition - if they convince themselves that "love" means they will have no problems with being in the relationship, and the fear will go away, and there will be no doubts...! Well, if there is fear, doubt and problems - it can't be love: PANIC....' - once the hurt and pain of being totally alone and abandoned by those they really care about exceeds the pain and fear of having to nurture those relationships and commit to being a friend or partner they wont ever accept they can't have it all there way. they havn't learned what life and love really is. they still think it's on tap and negotiatble. they are missing the essential apprecaition of the whole point of it - giving, taking, sharing and just being there/unconditional love. they dont' get it and if they ever do it will only be when they hit rock bottom, seriously examine themselves and make a concerted effort to fix this xx

[ecm]

Thanks everyone for all of the good thoughts/ suggestions/ stories... It's definitely helping (though Grey's Anatomy was sad tonight & it really made me miss him)

 

Seoa- I'm going to go to the bookstore this weekend.

 

Galicat- funny. well, not funny actually, but I think mine has NPD too.

Google is so bad sometimes. I've read all about it. I don't know if they are the same thing ( CP and NPD) but maybe they're related like high blood pressure and heart disease? Like with one, usually comes the other?

 

I know that my behavior (allowing him back in so easily) made it easy for him to come and go as he pleased. I wonder if the "passive" commitment phobes are also the type of people who want to try to help people/ fix things. I will have to get that out of my system for any future relationships for sure.

 

What I'm KIND OF happy/smiley/smug about is the fact that he was nasty in our last phone conversation. (The last thing he texted me was "Look, I am ashamed of my reactions and I apologize for being an a-hole". I said " thank you. me too." Then nothing since 2 Fridays ago. So, I am THINKING and/or HOPING he probably feels bad about the things he said.(not hoping for him to feel bad, but maybe start THINKING about what he's doing) I feel like I walked away with the upper hand b/c I know he doesn't mean the things he said. I KNOW he didn't mean it when he said he never met me, you know? (and duh- why would you say that if the person has no impact on your life).

 

There are 2 things about him/ his personality (in addition to the CP) that scares me. #1) his mom is nuts-legitimately nuts and #2) he cuts people out of his life. He no longer speaks his former best friend (he hit on me once, and he disprespected his brother another time) and WORSE: he hasn't spoken to his only brother OR HIS brother's FOUR KIDS (who he LOVED so much) in TWO YEARS... because of some family drama involving his insane mother). That to me is scary. My mom said " is he in love with his brother, though?" So, I don't know.

 

So, what do you think you're going to do about your guy, Galicat? (or anyone else who reads this)

[galicat]

well i think stick to your guns. don't contact him. nothing. like my guy it sounds like he has pushed or shut out nearly everyone of any significance form his life. i think they are arrogant enough to keep thinking that there is some magic angle out there who is just about to turn up and save them. sure they admit that they can be a'holes and rude etc but it's only ever in passing (in my opinion). i really do feel like apologies and 'sorrys' are only ever fleeting and usually totally insincear. if they really felt sorry they wouldn't do and say what they do. i think they are just lasy really. lasy in the idea that they are awsome and others are disposable.

 

due to your guys mum being nuts and abandoning him (doesn't supprise me given his symptoms), he has learned to be very self sufficent emotionally. he dreams of ideal love etc but in reality love is not 'ideal'. they don't know the ins and outs and give and take and compromise that is real relationships so everything and everyone fall short. as they don't really 'need' anyone they can just give it a miss, or so they think, until they can't deny the fact they are lonley and missing somthing (when you hear from him again). usually after some self reflecting they will come back, all sorry etc and it's back on again

 

re me and my one: i've had it. i have learned to be very strong and finally, after years and years, not get all anxiously caught up in when i might hear from him or getting elated then let down when he was one minute great and the next a crazy, moody, distancing weirdo who would just change his plans and let me down no qualms. if i ever so much as made him second i paid for it though. the double standards and hipocracy are the most mind bending things! and the jalousy - sounds liek you experianced this with your guys ex best friend. they can just write people of and cut them down and out in a breath because ther eis no real, strong, emoptional connection

 

my guy has come so fsr. i was soo soooo proud of him. i've had to be uneblievably patient. why i bothered is simply because i do love and believe in him. he was trouble from the start, inconsistant, a loner, multip;e break downs with friends and family, a string of girls he kept in contact with for egos sake. everything i dispised and thought was weak in a man. definitly not allot of moral fibre but i liked his energy and knew underneath his insecurities he was a great, caring and generous person who so desperatly wanted to do normal. i supose i could see this as i was very much the same and only since meeting him have i woken up to how i was and how i alienated and hurt people. there is zero empathy because there is no real, deep empotional connetion with these types. whether NPD or jsut CP (I bleive CP is a symptom of NPD but yes, one could just be CP and not NPD) i believe they are impossible to change unless they #1 recognise they have a problem (this means giving up all blame) and #2 take responsibility for changing then #3 actually follow though.

 

My guy is definitly having a relaps which is really sad. i'm not budging though. he has asked me to go aoverseas with him but it's another unthought through ego driven whim and i've learned that believing in his random ideas doesn't work. inveitably somthing goes wrong, someone f"ks him off etc and then its a disaster. Ive gone from pillar to post int he past 'standing by my man' but not now. i'm not even interested in being there for him anymore becaus he clearly hasn't been for me when i'vew needed it. I know for a fact he understnads my expectations now but he has still ignored them. i think they have gotten away with too much in the past and old habits die hard. people are always saying 'oh, thats just them' or 'don't take it personally', 'such and such is a bit 'funny'' - well stuff it. I know i did everything humany possible and have changed completly to be a better person for this man and if he is that plain dumb, selfish/self absorbed then good luck to him. if they really have feelings (i know he does and sounds like your guy does too) then leave them to fall flat on theiur faces, don't be there to pick them up like a fall back position or saftey net. help them grow and relaizse their own ability to overcome this crazy making problem they have through standing firm and insisting they come to you. offer you more. Just be, just be you, be happy, no more focusing on them and wait for them to come back. and then, if/when they do, make it on your terms, keep your own life going and never again be too available and willing to help them out of their little holes. Show them the way by being a light for yourself and hopfully, if they are not a total loss, they will wake up and follow xx