ecm Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 I think I'm slightly commitment-phobic as well, but I need some advice, please: Why do you run with things get good? And if you like someone, who ISN'T pressuring you to commit...why run? My guy runs WHENEVER we get close. I would understand if I were forcing him into a commitment, but I wasn't. Why does a guy run when he is allowed to have his cake and eat it too (slap me for using a cliche, but I can't think of another phrase right now). He says it's to save ME from being hurt, but he is so self centered that I don't even BELIEVE he would do anything for me. Especially if he was getting fed, excellent "booty", massages, spoiled, etc..... ANYONE? Please? I'm all about honest advice, so hit me. ( I KNOW he just might not like me, but there's more to it than that, I think. I'm looking/hoping for other possibilities/ opinions/ scenarios.
Taucher Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 First off, it's not just men. Well, not exclusively men anyway. It's not a GREAT book, and it is a massive cliche now, but "Women Are From Venus and Men Are From Mars" covers this exactly. It's a psychological thing, according to the book. Actually, the overall message in the book is that women nag and men are distant and cold. And women nagging makes men distant and cold and men being distant and cole make women nag more, like a vicious circle kind of thing. Cant give you any personal insight as I dont think I am commitment phobic, although my ex, well I am beginning to think that she is. Maybe she is from Mars and I am from Venus then. Typical. Also, how old is he? Some men (and non-men i.e. women) become less commitment phobic the older they get.
Author ecm Posted September 23, 2009 Author Posted September 23, 2009 Hi Taucher, thanks! I just said "especially men" b/c most of the people I talk to this about are women, so I wanted a man's perspective. (though, as commitment -phobes go, I'm not sure there's much of a difference, anyway) He is 31. I'm 35. I definitely don't NAG. I never really pushed for a relationship. I guess maybe I nagged at previous breakups when he needed space, but I' not really one to nag. I'll have to check out that book, though. So, you've had experiences with someone similar?
pandagirl Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 I'm not a guy, but I think I am a commitment phobe. I honestly think it has to do with a combination of: fear of failure, fear of getting hurt, fear of real intimacy. So that's why when things start going well, a person pulls WAY back.
Author ecm Posted September 23, 2009 Author Posted September 23, 2009 to avoid getting hurt, I get it. It just makes me C-R-A-Z-Y that JUST when I think that wall is about to come down, it's like an automatic car window....ZZZZZZZZ it's back up. He claims its for "me"...that I deserve better... and i would believe that coming form someone who isn't so selfish, but he is pretty self-absorbed, narcissitic, etc. So, why should I believe he's doing this "for me"?! Ya know? Ugh. I'm not crying everyday over it anymore. I'm now just trying to figure out what goes on in his mind that makes hm go "MIA". I used to run, too, (when I was younger) but at least I had the b*lls to say it instead of just going missing.
Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Are you confusing Mars and Venus with "Men Who Can't Love"? That's the self-help book that coined the term commitmentphobia. (Disclaimer: I'm not a self-help book advocate. I think most have an element of truth to them but are basically filled with a lot of poo poo.) I'm not sure there's a way to explain commitment phobia, beyond it being the greatest mind fcvk, any partner has ever experienced. Keep in mind that not all commitmentphobes are chronic. Some are just people who either aren't ready to settle down in life or have just come out of a traumatic relationship.
Author ecm Posted September 23, 2009 Author Posted September 23, 2009 Thanks everyone Trialbyfire, I know. He has abandonment issues from childhood and had a traumatic breakup... like 7 years ago!!! From what his family told me, since the breakup it was a pattern/ chronic/ whatever. We were on and off for 5...off again pretty recently. It's like I've heard all of the text book reasons why it happens. I get it because I used to be the same. I KNOW he might just not want to settle down WITH ME, too. I just don't think that's it, based on the way he treats me WHEN he's not running ... I think hearing people's thoughts makes me realize why I need to continue to do the whole "NC" thing. HA, I used an abbreviation, too. I guess "I've arrived"...now if i could just figure out what ALL of the abbreviations mean on here.
jesaiah09 Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Dear ecm, Most of the time, men wants respect from woman. Call it ego or whatever, but a man wants his girlfriend to give him respect, especially in front of his family, relatives and friends. And this means that you must give him the authority/power to make decisions. Your age, being older than him could also be one of the reasons he run away at times. One way you can help him is to give him the respect he deserves, act like a cute little girl in front of him, so that he can protect you and become the man of your life. Hope this helps. Blessings, Jesaiah
Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Thanks everyone Trialbyfire, I know. He has abandonment issues from childhood and had a traumatic breakup... like 7 years ago!!! From what his family told me, since the breakup it was a pattern/ chronic/ whatever. We were on and off for 5...off again pretty recently. It's like I've heard all of the text book reasons why it happens. I get it because I used to be the same. I KNOW he might just not want to settle down WITH ME, too. I just don't think that's it, based on the way he treats me WHEN he's not running ... I think hearing people's thoughts makes me realize why I need to continue to do the whole "NC" thing. HA, I used an abbreviation, too. I guess "I've arrived"...now if i could just figure out what ALL of the abbreviations mean on here.If he's been rubberbanding for 5 years, where you've taken him back over and over again, he doesn't have any incentive to change. For that matter, if you walk and keep walking, it's moot to you if he does change. Too little, too late. Put your foot down and stick to NC, for sure!
Author ecm Posted September 23, 2009 Author Posted September 23, 2009 Jesiah- thanks. I do kind of "not" do that. I kind of do everything for myself (fix things in the house, etc) but I DO ask him for help with things, and actually, he likes it! Hmmm... that's good advice. If I don't get the opportunity to see if it works with him, I will DEFINITELY try it in the future with new men. Trialbyfire- I know. I'm kind of getting there where I'm feeling it's too little, too late. It's hard though because things are SO different with him than with anyone else. You mean NC forEVER? Eek. That's scary. Almost reverse commitment phobe? Thanks again, everyone. ps I feel so selfish asking for advice on here, (as I'm new to this) but I'm finding it's a good way to deal with things. I hope if you need any advice, I can help, too
seoa Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Are you confusing Mars and Venus with "Men Who Can't Love"? That's the self-help book that coined the term commitmentphobia. He probably meant Mars & Venus, coz those who haven't been with a CP don't really get that it's different from regular guy/girl dynamics... Rather than Men who can't Love, I would recommend the next book by the same author (Steven Carter): Getting to Commitment. The first (by his own admission) just describes the problems - his later books talk about what to do about it. Most people on here swear by his even later book: He's Scared, She's Scared - this picks up on what you're suspecting, that "active CPs" (i.e. your guy) tend to pair up with "passive CPs" (i.e. you) - it's all about getting into relationships that are destined to fail... Note: don't be fooled by the term "commitment phobia" - it's not just about formal commitment (like engagement) - you could also term it "complete terror about being in a normal-ish relationship" - but that's not quite so catchy a phrase, for marketing purposes...! He says it's to save ME from being hurt, but he is so self centered that I don't even BELIEVE he would do anything for me. This is not particularly CP, and is of more concern... You say he doesn't do anything for you, it's all about what you do for him...? That just sounds like an imbalanced & unhealthy relationship, nothing to do with CP (although maybe you didn't mean it quite that dramatically). And a sample quote from the Getting to Commitment book mentioned earlier, see if it rings true for you: What is it that you are looking for? What it is you are hoping to find? Experience tells me that it’s not really a person you are chasing down the street, it is a feeling that you are after. That magical feeling so many of us are desperate to find is the feeling of ‘perfect connection’ that exists only in our dreams. There is no real connection that can feel this complete. There is no real person who has this much magic. Most of us who are looking for that feeling of perfect merger are looking for a feeling we lost very early in life – in infancy or early childhood. And the place to come to terms with that loss is in the office of a trained therapist or counsellor who can help you put those pieces of your past together. No partner can be expected to make up for that loss, but there are plenty of partners who still have lots of love to offer. Don’t keep turning your back on these real people, and their real love, because you are determined to find something all-consuming and larger than life.
Author ecm Posted September 23, 2009 Author Posted September 23, 2009 You guys are good ! Thanks, seoa. Note: don't be fooled by the term "commitment phobia" - it's not just about formal commitment (like engagement) - you could also term it "complete terror about being in a normal-ish relationship" - but that's not quite so catchy a phrase, for marketing purposes...! I think that phrase says it perfectly This is not particularly CP, and is of more concern... You say he doesn't do anything for you, it's all about what you do for him...? I haaaaave been known to be dramatic. I was really just referring to this last time, when he said he needed "space." His reason was that it's not fair to me because he said I want more from him (even though I never pushed for ANYTHING as far as a relationship). So, I just meant that his reason for ending what should be a PERFECT set up for a CP seems like B.S. Meaning: he wouldn't end something for MY feelings, when he is normally so concerned about himself first. He does things for me- helps with landscaping/ projects, etc. Sometimes more than others, but I didn't mean he doesn't do anything. (Dramatic- sorry) Good info about the books, too. thanks.
mickleb Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 I got this response from mine. He told me I deserved better a few hours after, basically, insinuating I was 'the one'. He had a nervous breakdown, telling me he had to get his life sorted and fled. I was trying to tell him that it was okay, that I was aware that he talked about commitment but didn't act on that but that we got on really well together, so I didn't especially mind. We could just carry on 'hanging out'. I think he thought he was an excellent boyfriend and, from discussing it, realised he wasn't who he thought he was? If that makes sense. Neither of us realised it was CP. I only put the pieces together afterwards. But it's really f*cking annoying because I wasn't demanding anything from him either and him running off was certainly not him doing me a favour. I've just gone from being completely in love with this man, who meant the world to me and who claimed the same about me, to zilch. Nothing. He hasn't even done the usual CP thing of not commiting on his decision and trying to come back! I just got all then nothing. I'm furious and devasted at the same freakin' time! Having said all that, now I realise how shallow it all was for him, he was probably right. x
Author ecm Posted September 23, 2009 Author Posted September 23, 2009 MickleB- I'm on a quick break at work so I'm just going to type myquestions quickly. (I apologize if it seems "short") How long were you together before it happened? Did this go on over and over again? How long has it been? Trialbyfire- I thought about something after I logged off last time- "biggest mind-f*ck" you are so right. I want to say "lol" but I guess I'm not really amused by their behavior, since that's really what it is!!!
Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Yes, ecm. When someone plays the "all in" card, then drops the ball and runs with no explanation, it's not very funny to the individual who's experienced it.
caramel c Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Yes, ecm. When someone plays the "all in" card, then drops the ball and runs with no explanation, it's not very funny to the individual who's experienced it. That's what happened to me pretty much. He was ALL over the subject of being serious, marriage, the future, he treated me amazingly well and I do not doubt his love for me. But then one day he couldn't handle it. POOF, gone.
Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 That's what happened to me pretty much. He was ALL over the subject of being serious, marriage, the future, he treated me amazingly well and I do not doubt his love for me. But then one day he couldn't handle it. POOF, gone. I'm sorry to hear this. Brutal as hell.
caramel c Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 I'm sorry to hear this. Brutal as hell. No doubt it is...I am getting better though. I'm not sure if he is, but I am.
Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 No doubt it is...I am getting better though. I'm not sure if he is, but I am.I'm glad to hear that you're getting better. For both you and ecm, it's all about you now. What he is, says and does, is moot. If he comes back whining and begging, that's his problem, not yours. Get strong and hard.
caramel c Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 I'm glad to hear that you're getting better. For both you and ecm, it's all about you now. What he is, says and does, is moot. If he comes back whining and begging, that's his problem, not yours. Get strong and hard. Thank you...it's so hard to recover from the shock of it. It will be hard to enter another relationship. I don't know how I'm ever going to do it...
Trialbyfire Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Thank you...it's so hard to recover from the shock of it. It will be hard to enter another relationship. I don't know how I'm ever going to do it... You and ecm will recover from commitmentphobes. It just takes time, so be kind to yourselves.
BCCA Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Eventually, youll be able to spot the signs a little easier next time, and hopefully not be as deep 'in' before it happens. I know its happened to me a couple times as well, and Ive gotten to the point where I can see the signs. TBF is dead on though, its the worst kind of mind f$#& you can experience. And Im sure you know this, but people dont do stuff like this for anyone but themselves. It sounds good when they say its for your own good, and in a way - maybe it is, but that is not the reason behind it. You guys will be ok, and the next time you meet some douche who pulls the old Houdini, you'll have 0 time or patience for it. Youre only wrestling with it now because you have so much invested, but Im telling you - if it happens again (and I REALLY hope it doesnt) you want let yourself fall that far in.
pandagirl Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 That's what happened to me pretty much. He was ALL over the subject of being serious, marriage, the future, he treated me amazingly well and I do not doubt his love for me. But then one day he couldn't handle it. POOF, gone. Sigh. This is so sad to me. It's so common though!
Author ecm Posted September 23, 2009 Author Posted September 23, 2009 BCCA- LOL- the word douche just made me literally lol in my office at work. You touched on a point I made earlier- he claimed it was for "me"- such crap. It just seems like if he/they DIDN'T have feelings, they'd have no REASON to run. Right? IT almost makes it HARDER than if someone just left you b/c they really don't love you. I could handle that so much better than KNOWING (or thinking this is the case, anyway)that he has feelings that scare him. What is worse? Avoiding being hurt or letting a person you love get away? GRRRRR! It's been going on for so long now that I'm past the heartbroken stage. I'm just so annoyed that he behaves like a little b*tch. I've proven to him over and over again that I wouldn't abandon him, but he never trusts it. So, anyone have any success in converting a CP? Is it even possible? What if you ever DO let them back in and really make them earn their way back in? Do they ever learn? BTW, I realize I could be delusional. He really MAY not like/ love me at all. I'm not a stupid person, though, and I hope I would know the difference. I'm really curious to hear what someone on his end of it in a similar situation thinks. I've been on his end of it when I was younger. I was the one who was always "running". What made me realize I needed to stop was when I finally a good one get away. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH! I don't want that to happen. I don't want to prep him to be a wonderful boyfriend to someone ELSE! (ego- I know, but what the heck? it's hard!)
mickleb Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Hey ecm. I've no probs with 'short'. Off to bed in a tick, anyhoo, so will return tomorrow! 1. Not agonisingly long: 14 months 2. Nope. First break-up. Think he wanted me to end it about a month before, though 3. It's been 2 months. I get caramel, with the shock thing. I guess it's not the same for you, though. I've no idea how I'd react to him if he did ever pop up again. I feel as though I don't know him. That's very weird, considering how much I loved 'him'. And I deffo agree with BCCA that, even though there could be an element of 'they're worth more', that's NOT the primary motive. It's the release of responsibility they need. It's so selfish and I'm almost CERTAIN he has no idea of this. He's probably not thinking about it much, anyway and, if he does it'll be 'I must continue to be noble and let HER be free'! I would love to point out to him how brutal he has been but he wouldn't be able to hear it, so I'm just left crying / laughing in disbelief and bitterness then just non-plussed by the ridiculousness of the whole shebang. Anyway, hope you at least look about, whilst yours is off on another jolly and see what the rest of the world can offer you. Take care. x
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