thatguy85 Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 I just got into an argument about this with my wife. What's the worst part of an infidelity - the dishonesty of it, or the desire? I say dishonesty. In my opinion, we as human beings cannot control our desires of what we want. Where infidelity goes wrong is when people are not honest and upfront about these desires. Her argument was that when you are in a relationship, you shouldn't be having outside desires - and that's what hurts the most. What are your thoughts? Our relationship is on the rocks right now. She has had some emotional affairs over the last couple years, one leading to physical. Besides the affairs, the relationship had been working and I was very happy. I do still love my wife, but while in the midst of my anger/depression/confusion of what to do, I grew feelings for another woman. This was the first time ever during our relationship that I even had a desire to see someone else. I think this might have been due to some detachment from my wife emotionally after she'd hurt me. I told my wife I'd like to try to work things out and see if it's worth saving, but I can't ignore my interest in the other woman. I went to my wife and told her everything. I told her I was willing to tough it out and see if we can repair it, but I also told her that I had feelings for another woman and wanted to see her to find out for myself who I wanted to be with. The other woman knows I'm married, admit her feelings for me but has agreed with me (by my recommendation) that we proceed as friends. My wife says it's unfair for me to see or talk to this woman at all. This is where I got angry. I told her that the reason why it hurt so badly to be cheated on was the fact that it was behind my back and she tried to hide it. She cheated with her ex (who was her first love), and explained that the reason why she did it was to make sure she was with the right person. She wanted to be truly happy and she loved me, but was unsure how much she still loved him. She did everything behind my back to get clarity for herself while trying NOT to hurt me in the process. Winds up she thinks he's a loser and wouldn't go back to him even if we didn't work out - and she truly does love me more. I was still angry and hurt that this was all done behind my back. I believe that we all understand that we as people ultimately seek happiness in our lives. A huge part of that happiness is who we choose to spend our life with. A person who has feelings for multiple other people needs to figure out what will make them truly happy. I think that anyone who's been cheated on would agree that the part that hurt the most was the dishonesty and secracy of it all. I believe that if the cheater would have said "Hey honey... I know you won't like this but I met this guy/girl at work and something really weird is happening. I don't know what it is but I think I'm developing feelings for them. I want to look into this by maybe going out for some coffee with him/her so I can find out if this is legitmate" - then yes it would still suck, but not as bad as your partner going out with that person over and over and over again behind your back, trying to cover it up with more lies. Most people who's been in love will say and has said they just want their partner to be happy (even if that means they will be with someone else). If this is true, why is it such a big deal If I want to go get some lunch with this girl?
Art_Critic Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 What makes infidelity bad? Dishonesty, or Desire? To me it is just the total disrespect to your partner and or children that makes it bad. Not to mention the disrespect for their own selves they show and the vows they promised to uphold. Infidelity for reasons of dishonesty or desire still have the disrespect to their partner and family unit in common.
Author thatguy85 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 To me it is just the total disrespect to your partner and or children that makes it bad. Not to mention the disrespect for their own selves they show and the vows they promised to uphold. Infidelity for reasons of dishonesty or desire still have the disrespect to their partner and family unit in common. Good answer. Disrespect is a huge blow. Heres my follow-up question to your answer though - what fuels the disrespect? What makes infidelity disrespecful?
Thaddeus Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 I have to agree with my friend AC here. It shows a total lack of respect for the partnership and marriage contract (if there is one). And that lack of respect goes for both the cheating spouse AND the person they're cheating with (OW or OM) assuming that the OW/OM knows that they're sleeping with someone who's married/in a LTR.
Author thatguy85 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 I have to agree with my friend AC here. It shows a total lack of respect for the partnership and marriage contract (if there is one). And that lack of respect goes for both the cheating spouse AND the person they're cheating with (OW or OM) assuming that the OW/OM knows that they're sleeping with someone who's married/in a LTR. I agree with this as well. Let me kind of clarify one thing though. In my original post I wasn't suggesting anything sexual. I wasn't jumping the gun to anything that would be like a drunken one night stand or a passionate sex-only fling. I was referring to looking for a life-partner (or at least someone to date and hang out with).
2sure Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 You have both cheated on each other. OK. Which is worse doesnt really matter, because its all a matter of perception - and different to men vs women. But one thing is the same for recovery from any type of infidelity: The Affair has to stop. No contact. You are still having an affair, or still claiming that you can and will..and further, that it isnt wrong. AND want her to be ok with it. Gaslighting
Dexter Morgan Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 I just got into an argument about this with my wife. What's the worst part of an infidelity - the dishonesty of it, or the desire? Neither, its the betrayal, and the fact that your committed partner f####d someone else.
KikiW Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Your wife's cheating was bad because it was behind your back and done with deception, but don't try and justify your desire (or simple interest) in this other woman because you think you are getting around the deception part by telling your wife about it. Your wife has told you she doesn't want that. Seeing this woman then becomes deceptive. You want her to agree to this situation, because you feel justified in "checking things out" but what you are doing is setting up an emotional affair at the very least. You are arranging things to see if the shoe fits better. You are not focusing on working things out with your wife, and therefor you cannot reconcile with her until you stop the "grass might be greener" game.
Author thatguy85 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 You have both cheated on each other. OK. Which is worse doesnt really matter, because its all a matter of perception - and different to men vs women. But one thing is the same for recovery from any type of infidelity: The Affair has to stop. No contact. You are still having an affair, or still claiming that you can and will..and further, that it isnt wrong. AND want her to be ok with it. Gaslighting So wait a second. Are you telling me I've been cheating on her? I'm confused as to what cheating is then. I was hurt, cheated on, ready to move on with my life - met someone who I started to become attached to. I was completely open with honest with both her and my wife about it. Wikipedia says "Cheating is an act of lying, deception, fraud, trickery, imposture, or imposition." At what point have I been cheating or gaslighting? What's so wrong with wanting to figure something out for myself if I have a decision to make between two woman and I can only be with one? My situation is a lot like the movie Along Came Polly. Ben Stiller was cheated on immediately after his wedding, dumps wife, accidently meets Polly, starts to like her, Wife comes back, He's confused, Picks Polly. I'm at "He's confused" point right now. I told my wife we could possibly work things out, but I don't know for certain. I have to see how legitimate my feelings have been for this other girl. Why is that so wrong?
Author thatguy85 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 Your wife's cheating was bad because it was behind your back and done with deception, but don't try and justify your desire (or simple interest) in this other woman because you think you are getting around the deception part by telling your wife about it. Your wife has told you she doesn't want that. Seeing this woman then becomes deceptive. You want her to agree to this situation, because you feel justified in "checking things out" but what you are doing is setting up an emotional affair at the very least. You are arranging things to see if the shoe fits better. You are not focusing on working things out with your wife, and therefor you cannot reconcile with her until you stop the "grass might be greener" game. I guess I can agree with this.
2sure Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Wikipedia says "Cheating is an act of lying, deception, fraud, trickery, imposture, or imposition." At what point have I been cheating or gaslighting? What's so wrong with wanting to figure something out for myself if I have a decision to make between two woman and I can only be with one? Because you simply cannot sincerely try to evaluate your marriage , see if recovery is possible while you are still having a relationship of any kind with someone else that you have feelings for. The gaslighting , the fraud comes in as you try to convince her that your wanting to keep both the marriage and the affair for the moment is a healthy thing.
MistyK Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 I'm at "He's confused" point right now. I told my wife we could possibly work things out, but I don't know for certain. I have to see how legitimate my feelings have been for this other girl. Why is that so wrong? The only thing wrong with it is you want to keep both of them while you decide. You don't want to make the decision now and you think that if they both really care about you that they owe it to you to give you that space. It is terribly unfair to both. You can't try on a second pair of shoes when you won't take off the 1st pair. It just doesn't work, and it's cruel to both to try. You don't get to use your wife as a safety blanket in case Polly turns out to be a lemon. That's how she used you, and you didn't seem to like it or think it was fair either. Bottom line is that you need to decide who you want to explore the future with, and you get NO guarantees. You need to decide one way or the other immediately and commit to that or both relationships will fail. THAT is a guarantee.
PhoenixRise Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Your wife has clearly hurt you. But you can't seriously think you can work on the marriage and cultivate an emotional realtionship with another woman at the same time. If you really want to see it the grass is greener separate from your wife. Get a divorce. Then date this other woman in an one on one relationship instead of deliberately setting up a triangle.
Author thatguy85 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 I guess you guys are right. I've never been good or timely about making hard decisions, and this decision is the hardest I've ever had to make. It isn't hard to decide between wife and girl so much as it is wife vs no wife
IfWishesWereHorses Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 I'm wondering. If you told your employer that you "think" you might have found a job with their competitor that you like better, that might be better than the job you have now, and you'll like to take some time with pay to go check it out to see if that might be the job for you, how do you think they will respond. Even if you explained to them that you weren't hiring on right now, just wanted to see if you like it better. You think that would make a difference. What ever happened to making a decision and sticking with it, owning it. Divorce your wife if you are interested in persuing your dreams with other women.
Author thatguy85 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 I'm wondering. If you told your employer that you "think" you might have found a job with their competitor that you like better, that might be better than the job you have now, and you'll like to take some time with pay to go check it out to see if that might be the job for you, how do you think they will respond. Even if you explained to them that you weren't hiring on right now, just wanted to see if you like it better. You think that would make a difference. What ever happened to making a decision and sticking with it, owning it. Divorce your wife if you are interested in persuing your dreams with other women. So I guess you recommend the sneaky way of leaving a job which is interview behind your employers back, get an offer and then leave. This is typically how switching employers works, unless you recommend quitting your job without having another lined up which is a pretty bad idea no? I see where the other posters were coming from but I don't think you can compare a marriage to work in all cases.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 I see where the other posters were coming from but I don't think you can compare a marriage to work in all cases. I'm comparing anyone who has a vested interest in you staying or leaving, to be asked to sit back and wait until you figure out if you like the competition better.
2sure Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 I thought the work analogy thing was clear. I am still a bit confused as to why you do not feel maintaining a relationship with another woman while evaluating your marriage is not cheating. I was curious about your providing literal definitions to prove you are not , technically, cheating. I am a bit surprised by the frustration you have that your wife doesnt understand your position or your definitions. But, as a BS, I have to admit - it all sounds familiar.
Devil Inside Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 I guess you guys are right. I've never been good or timely about making hard decisions, and this decision is the hardest I've ever had to make. It isn't hard to decide between wife and girl so much as it is wife vs no wife Could be that you are developing feelings for this other person as a way to avoid this decision. Do yourself a favor...make this decision from outside of the triangle. If you are trying to see where things go with this girl it will cloud your judgment on how you feel about your wife. From your statement above it seems that the real decision is whether you still want to be married or not. Make that decision first, and with as little possible distraction. As for your original question...I think that dishonesty is worse then desire when it comes to infidelity. However when I say that I mean just having the desire...not acting on it...behind her back or not.
confusedinkansas Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Keeping this other woman on as a "Friend"....Sounds to me like you are "Trying On" other woman to see if one fits better or worse than the other. Relationships aren't like buying a pair of jeans. You say you love your wife yet you want to be this other womans friend to see how you feel about her....... If you want to see if the grass is greener / test the waters, if you will.... Go your separate ways. It's quite unfair to expect your wife to just put her life on hold to see if you want her or the other woman. However, I do understand what you're doing is really not much different than someone having a secret affair. You're just doing it in the open. Where I come from they call this an 'OPEN MARRIAGE' & most generally both parties / all parties involved are usually in agreement in order for it to work as such. but don't try and justify your desire (or simple interest) in this other woman because you think you are getting around the deception part by telling your wife about it. Sounds like this to me too. Although EVERYONE that has ever had an affair tries their darndest to justify why they are doing what they are doing. It's part of how the 'game' is played.
Author thatguy85 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 I thought the work analogy thing was clear. I am still a bit confused as to why you do not feel maintaining a relationship with another woman while evaluating your marriage is not cheating. I was curious about your providing literal definitions to prove you are not , technically, cheating. I am a bit surprised by the frustration you have that your wife doesnt understand your position or your definitions. But, as a BS, I have to admit - it all sounds familiar. Does BS stand for something besides bullsh**?
Thaddeus Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Does BS stand for something besides bullsh**?BS = betrayed spouse. (The acronyms that fly about here can be a little overwhelming sometimes...)
confusedinkansas Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 I guess you guys are right. I've never been good or timely about making hard decisions, and this decision is the hardest I've ever had to make. It isn't hard to decide between wife and girl so much as it is wife vs no wife OMG Another fence sitter! Welcome to the club! It's really not a fun or comfortable place to be. Been there myself for many years. Husband vs. alone....Husband vs. alone......Hmmmmm.....Decisions Decisions Decisions. I know exactly what you're saying & where you are in this. I feel for you - Only advice I have to offer is.....Buy a pillow! It will keep your butt from getting chapped sitting up there all those years not making decisions.
2sure Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Does BS stand for something besides bullsh**? No, no...thats it.
Author thatguy85 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 No, no...thats it. I guess what I'm having an issue with right now is feeling attacked for wanting something good to come from my life, is not going the way I had wanted it to go. I'm only 24 and have been with my wife for over a quarter of my life. She was my first for many different things (love included), and I had dreamed of the fairytale relationship. When she started to cheat on me things fell apart, and here I am. I'm trying to find a way to be happy and nothing is working.
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