Lynx331 Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 So I am in the middle of reading no more mr nice guy By robert glover. And it's making me realize a few things.. I don't know if anyone has read my other threads lately about my break up with my gf. Here's just a quick idea, I left her because I felt controlled, felt used for my wallet, felt demasculized, was told what to do, what dumped of given ultamadiums if I was going to do something she Didnt want. Never could do what I wanted, felt as if she had no respect for me. No Trust for me. In reading this book so far.. I am realizing.. I may have reinforced this behavior. By me beingto passive, me being the "nice guy" actually contributed to these problems. Me not standing my ground, not speaking about how I feel, me constantly seeking her approval, and when I didn't get her approval I would just try harder to be even nicer.. Which made matters even worse.. I didn't feel like being just ME was good enough.. I felt I had to be What she expected.. Just as this book outlines. I guess what I am getting at is, am I gettingthe right idea? Could my "niceness" have paved the way for these type of actions from her, not necessairly created them.. But made them worse?
JaggedRoad Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Pretty much. You felt like you weren't getting back what you deserved from her, and you had these covert contracts with her as way to get them without making yourself looking like a jerk.
Author Lynx331 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 This is just so weird.. Up until now I thought most of our problems were caused by issues with her... Now this book is showing me that maybe I had just as much to do with what happened as she did.... This just threw a crazy monkey wrench into alot of things...
JaggedRoad Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Well, it's a wakeup call to you and be glad you found out now instead of later on. Now that you've realized how much you messed up, what are you going to do?
Chrome Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 I'm also reading this book at the moment and yeah, Im afraid i see a lot of myself in those examples and theories. Reading it I see that I probably harmed my relationship and reinforced the bad things because i didn't feel good enough. The covert contract thing? Yep. Definately had that going on at times because i certainly didn't feel I was getting back what I put in. But you know, Whilst I see the things covered in the book and recognize them and can say "Damn. Thats me, thats what i did. I helped make that situation bad", I also see that I didn't create the situation all by myself. Fact was i was with a woman who I loved wholeheartedly, but who also had an agenda of her own. Whose self esteem wasnt any better or higher than mine. Was in fact almost certainly lower than mine. That would explain why she now feels she's in a better place with a guy who will use her and throw her away once he's had enough of her like he did the past 2 times he left her feeling used and heartbroken. I think that she actually feels shes not good enough for someone who will love her and treat her with respect. She was looking for approval too - but not from me, from the lowlife she was with before because he rejected her, not once, but twice. I think I did seek approval too much and i think I did give in to her too much. I know there were definitely covert contracts at times But i also believe that she saw behaviours she's been guilty of in the past. these behaviors embaressed her to think about because it remnded her of her own past hurt and feeling of rejection. Thing is, she could have seen those and remembered how that felt and made more effort but she didnt. So while i may have helped engineer our eventual breakup by being too much of a nice guy, SHE made a choice to make me suffer indignities. she could have seen the effort i was making and tried to appreciate it, told me where i was maybe going wrong, told me, "Hey, dont try so hard, I like you for who you are", but no. too much effort. So I'd say yeah, take notice of the book and learn what you can from it. Recognize where you hink you make mistakes and try and not make those same ones again. Take what you want from teh book and try to build on it. But don't blame yourself entirely for what happened because there are always two parties involved. She could have been more understanding. Or pointed out things that were bothering her and suggested ways in which they could be resolved. she could have worked with you. Relationships require effort from both participants. Saying "I'm too 'nice' , I need and want to change" is a good start, but all the change in the world wont matter if your S.O. cant be bothered or doesn't care enough about being with you to work with you within the relationship.
Thaddeus Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 I'm very familiar with the book and the whole "nice guy" syndrome. I was that guy for years until I got my head out of my a$$ and saw reality. Yes, your "niceness" and "flexibility" fundamentally shifted the power in the relationship from being relatively equally balanced (how it should be) to strongly away from you and to her. The result of that is most often exactly as you describe: emasculation and a total loss of respect for you. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, wore the sucker until it was tattered rags. Fortunately, there is an upside to all this. It got you reading the book (and doing the exercises, I hope) and growing your balls back. And all that is good groundwork for your next relationship.
JaggedRoad Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Right. It's never just the fault of one person. One person could have been more understanding while the other could have done a little bit more. I definitely gave into my ex too much as well until a few months ago. I think she felt like she was losing control when I was removing myself from my "nice guy" persona. It's too bad really. We could have had a really great relationship if she only gave it a few more months =)
deux ex machina Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 I think "nice guys" are only "nice" because they want something...
Author Lynx331 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 Well, it's a wakeup call to you and be glad you found out now instead of later on. Now that you've realized how much you messed up, what are you going to do? Yes, im very glad i found out now, very very glad! Im curious what you are getting at when you say, what are you going to do? I'm also reading this book at the moment and yeah, Im afraid i see a lot of myself in those examples and theories. Reading it I see that I probably harmed my relationship and reinforced the bad things because i didn't feel good enough. The covert contract thing? Yep. Definately had that going on at times because i certainly didn't feel I was getting back what I put in. But you know, Whilst I see the things covered in the book and recognize them and can say "Damn. Thats me, thats what i did. I helped make that situation bad", I also see that I didn't create the situation all by myself. Fact was i was with a woman who I loved wholeheartedly, but who also had an agenda of her own. Whose self esteem wasnt any better or higher than mine. Was in fact almost certainly lower than mine. That would explain why she now feels she's in a better place with a guy who will use her and throw her away once he's had enough of her like he did the past 2 times he left her feeling used and heartbroken. I think that she actually feels shes not good enough for someone who will love her and treat her with respect. She was looking for approval too - but not from me, from the lowlife she was with before because he rejected her, not once, but twice. I think I did seek approval too much and i think I did give in to her too much. I know there were definitely covert contracts at times But i also believe that she saw behaviours she's been guilty of in the past. these behaviors embaressed her to think about because it remnded her of her own past hurt and feeling of rejection. Thing is, she could have seen those and remembered how that felt and made more effort but she didnt. So while i may have helped engineer our eventual breakup by being too much of a nice guy, SHE made a choice to make me suffer indignities. she could have seen the effort i was making and tried to appreciate it, told me where i was maybe going wrong, told me, "Hey, dont try so hard, I like you for who you are", but no. too much effort. So I'd say yeah, take notice of the book and learn what you can from it. Recognize where you hink you make mistakes and try and not make those same ones again. Take what you want from teh book and try to build on it. But don't blame yourself entirely for what happened because there are always two parties involved. She could have been more understanding. Or pointed out things that were bothering her and suggested ways in which they could be resolved. she could have worked with you. Relationships require effort from both participants. Saying "I'm too 'nice' , I need and want to change" is a good start, but all the change in the world wont matter if your S.O. cant be bothered or doesn't care enough about being with you to work with you within the relationship. I understand where your coming from, because as i have been reading this.. my inner feelings have been.. crap... i messed this up.. when you say she could have said hey dont try so hard, or she could have taken notice of all the effort i was putting forward, you bring a very good point to the table. Because for a little bit i was starting to feel like 98% of the failure was on my shoulders for my nice guy syndrome. I'm very familiar with the book and the whole "nice guy" syndrome. I was that guy for years until I got my head out of my a$$ and saw reality. Yes, your "niceness" and "flexibility" fundamentally shifted the power in the relationship from being relatively equally balanced (how it should be) to strongly away from you and to her. The result of that is most often exactly as you describe: emasculation and a total loss of respect for you. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, wore the sucker until it was tattered rags. Fortunately, there is an upside to all this. It got you reading the book (and doing the exercises, I hope) and growing your balls back. And all that is good groundwork for your next relationship. Yes i did learn alot from this relationship, alot of things, from the relationship, from you amazing people here on the LS forums, and now recently from this book. Now i guess i just need to finish the book, take notes, and try and figure out if my action were the ultimate demise of the relationship.. because as of right now... i kinda feel that way..
GorillaTheater Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 I think "nice guys" are only "nice" because they want something... In my experience, that "something" tends to be a mix of conflict avoidance and people-pleasing.
Thaddeus Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 I think "nice guys" are only "nice" because they want something...There's a lot to be said for this insight. Much of what constitutes "niceness" is actually something called a "covert contract." That is, "if I (the nice guy) show her how good and reliable and loving I am, she'll see that and appreciate me and maybe even take me to bed." Of course, the "nice guy" isn't direct about his intentions which is why it's called a covert contract.
Author Lynx331 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 I think "nice guys" are only "nice" because they want something... That may be true, but just to offer a difference of opinion. I had no agenda with her. I didnt want anything special. Just to be happy, laugh, smile and have a great life. I was nice to her because i wanted her to be happy, no hidden reasoning, i thought it was my job as her lover to make her happier than she has ever been before, and the only reason i did that is because i wanted to see her happy. So im not disagreeing with you, some guys can play games and be decieving.. i however, do not agree with that, and was genuinely being nice. I guess along the lines of the "treat people how you want to be treated" saying.
JaggedRoad Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Yes, im very glad i found out now, very very glad! Im curious what you are getting at when you say, what are you going to do? You are the dumper in your situation, so are you going to try repairing things or are you going to let go?
hoping2heal Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 So I am in the middle of reading no more mr nice guy By robert glover. And it's making me realize a few things.. I don't know if anyone has read my other threads lately about my break up with my gf. Here's just a quick idea, I left her because I felt controlled, felt used for my wallet, felt demasculized, was told what to do, what dumped of given ultamadiums if I was going to do something she Didnt want. Never could do what I wanted, felt as if she had no respect for me. No Trust for me. In reading this book so far.. I am realizing.. I may have reinforced this behavior. By me beingto passive, me being the "nice guy" actually contributed to these problems. Me not standing my ground, not speaking about how I feel, me constantly seeking her approval, and when I didn't get her approval I would just try harder to be even nicer.. Which made matters even worse.. I didn't feel like being just ME was good enough.. I felt I had to be What she expected.. Just as this book outlines. I guess what I am getting at is, am I gettingthe right idea? Could my "niceness" have paved the way for these type of actions from her, not necessairly created them.. But made them worse? Well, you enabled and harbored it yes. In the same way that a parent with an unruly child does not discipline the child and the child begins getting in a lot of destructive behavior. Because you never stood up to her or challenged her behavior or told HER that she needs to shape up or ship out; she was allowed to just keep "feeding the monster". However, have some compassion for yourself, you didn't know then what you know now. Don't be so down on yourself and hopefully this will help you in the future when you get into a relationship. To always establish boundries and respect and be sure that person is meeting YOUR needs.
Author Lynx331 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 You are the dumper in your situation, so are you going to try repairing things or are you going to let go? That's what i was afraid of.. lol Well to be completely honest i dont know what i will do right now. I had a horrible day yesterday, as i posted like a helpless fool on my other thread. Sat and thought about alot of things.. realized how often i felt sad, and how often she mad me cry, and how often she hurt me. And as of last night i was 100% ready to move on and be without her. But now this has thrown me for a loop, seeing how i have contributed to the problems, if not created some.. has made me really.. unsure of what i am going to do to be honest.. As it stands right now.. i feel.. pretty much at fault for our relationships failure.. i really dont quite know what to think at this moment..
Author Lynx331 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 Well, you enabled and harbored it yes. In the same way that a parent with an unruly child does not discipline the child and the child begins getting in a lot of destructive behavior. Because you never stood up to her or challenged her behavior or told HER that she needs to shape up or ship out; she was allowed to just keep "feeding the monster". However, have some compassion for yourself, you didn't know then what you know now. Don't be so down on yourself and hopefully this will help you in the future when you get into a relationship. To always establish boundries and respect and be sure that person is meeting YOUR needs. I see youve made it over from my other thread.. thank you for coming and voicing your opinion her as well. Im not really down on myself.. i guess its like i just got slapped in the face that i may have been as much at fault as she.. where up until now i had thought, and so had everyone else.. it 98% her fault.. I had it all figured out what i had to do.. and now.. i dont know anything anymore lol
hoping2heal Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 That's what i was afraid of.. lol Well to be completely honest i dont know what i will do right now. I had a horrible day yesterday, as i posted like a helpless fool on my other thread. Sat and thought about alot of things.. realized how often i felt sad, and how often she mad me cry, and how often she hurt me. And as of last night i was 100% ready to move on and be without her. But now this has thrown me for a loop, seeing how i have contributed to the problems, if not created some.. has made me really.. unsure of what i am going to do to be honest.. As it stands right now.. i feel.. pretty much at fault for our relationships failure.. i really dont quite know what to think at this moment.. You're not at all at fault. For one, she has a responsibility to the way she treats people and behaves, that doesn't change just because someone let's her walk all over them. Secondly, you will never ever know that HAD you gone and stood up for yourself, would she shape up her act or just tell you to get lost and found a poor chump more willing to put up with it. Don't feed into the fantasy you are trying to get yourself into, excusing her for what she's done to you and how she has devalued and disrespected your relationship. Don't do that, don't make her out to be an innocent victim because that will give you an excuse to do something about fixing your relationship..
JaggedRoad Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Do you really see yourself with her down the line? Do you want to make it work so that you both can be together as the people you want to be? Answer those questions yourself and then talk to her. TALK TO HER!
Author Lynx331 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 You're not at all at fault. For one, she has a responsibility to the way she treats people and behaves, that doesn't change just because someone let's her walk all over them. Secondly, you will never ever know that HAD you gone and stood up for yourself, would she shape up her act or just tell you to get lost and found a poor chump more willing to put up with it. Don't feed into the fantasy you are trying to get yourself into, excusing her for what she's done to you and how she has devalued and disrespected your relationship. Don't do that, don't make her out to be an innocent victim because that will give you an excuse to do something about fixing your relationship.. So basically your saying i should be done with her, no matter what? Do you really see yourself with her down the line? Do you want to make it work so that you both can be together as the people you want to be? Answer those questions yourself and then talk to her. TALK TO HER! To be honest.. i did.. now im really not so sure.. after all that has happened, i always thought we could have had something great to gether and i guess that was why i had hung on as long as i did. And as far as making it work.. sure id love to make things work and everything be happy, fair, fun etc. Then i wouldnt have to be going through this right now lol. But yea i always wished that things would workout between us.. every shooting star i saw.. recieved the same wish..
Thaddeus Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Lynx331, no matter what you do now, you can't put the proverbial toothpaste back in the tube. Going the NMMNG route with your gf (I thought you had already broken up... perhaps I misunderstood?) will result in one of two consequences: She'll recognize that you're taking your balls back and will respect you for it; She'll be threatened by your newfound confidence and realize that she can't have her way with you anymore, so she'll leave. No matter which consequence takes place, it's the right one.
hoping2heal Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Lynx, I'm not saying you should be done with her no matter what, no. What I am saying is, she IS responsible for a lot, she treated you very badly and standing up to her might not have even worked. If you two were to get back together she would need to have a clear understanding of where she went wrong. The major things would be mistreating you, constantly manipulating you, and expecting you to be the one responsible for her personal happiness..to name a few. I think only unless she can realise this on her own, she's a lost cause anyway because your relationship cannot go back the way it was and the first step to that changing is her having an epiphany and realising all on her own these things.
Author Lynx331 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 Lynx331, no matter what you do now, you can't put the proverbial toothpaste back in the tube. Going the NMMNG route with your gf (I thought you had already broken up... perhaps I misunderstood?) will result in one of two consequences: She'll recognize that you're taking your balls back and will respect you for it; She'll be threatened by your newfound confidence and realize that she can't have her way with you anymore, so she'll leave. No matter which consequence takes place, it's the right one. We are broken up, and have been a week of NC. But all this new information is making me wonder about alot of different things. Because there actually was a few points where she did tell me i need to start standing my ground, i need to stand behind what i believe and not care about what other people think about me..
Author Lynx331 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 Lynx, I'm not saying you should be done with her no matter what, no. What I am saying is, she IS responsible for a lot, she treated you very badly and standing up to her might not have even worked. If you two were to get back together she would need to have a clear understanding of where she went wrong. The major things would be mistreating you, constantly manipulating you, and expecting you to be the one responsible for her personal happiness..to name a few. I think only unless she can realise this on her own, she's a lost cause anyway because your relationship cannot go back the way it was and the first step to that changing is her having an epiphany and realising all on her own these things. Ok very understandable, i like the way you think. One thing that comes to mind when you said that.. Is the 2nd to last time i saw her in person.. she said to me "Im going to a councelor, and now a physcatrist, i am changeing this time, and it will be a shame if your not around to see it, because its going to be pretty awesome" Now im wondering if that was throw out to make me feel bad.. or if she is actually serious about how she feels and she is really going to change things.
hoping2heal Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Ok very understandable, i like the way you think. One thing that comes to mind when you said that.. Is the 2nd to last time i saw her in person.. she said to me "Im going to a councelor, and now a physcatrist, i am changeing this time, and it will be a shame if your not around to see it, because its going to be pretty awesome" Now im wondering if that was throw out to make me feel bad.. or if she is actually serious about how she feels and she is really going to change things. Well, I hope she earnestly does see a counsellor, but tbh? It sounds like she's full of it. Sounds like a very manipulative statement and unless I saw her make a commitment to counselling for AT LEAST 3 months with some legitimate changes and CONSISTENCY I wouldn't put ANY stock into it.
Chrome Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Ok very understandable, i like the way you think. One thing that comes to mind when you said that.. Is the 2nd to last time i saw her in person.. she said to me "Im going to a councelor, and now a physcatrist, i am changeing this time, and it will be a shame if your not around to see it, because its going to be pretty awesome" Now im wondering if that was throw out to make me feel bad.. or if she is actually serious about how she feels and she is really going to change things. Yeah... sounds kind of manipulative to me. Easy thing to say too. takes a lot of commitment to back that one up I'd have thought.
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