Looking for support while I wait it out - if I do...

[frannie]

I had a 2-months affair with a MM whose W was out of town - started casual but got more involved, as we practically didn't leave each other for that time

 

.... he intends to separate but of course it involves complications because of his child. He said he wouldn't make a decision until the end of this calendar year.

 

... He asked me travel with him early next year (his wife is in and out of town for extended periods of time).

 

Hello. It's the bit about asking you to travel with him next year while his wife is again out of town that sounds soooo very bad. Do you know what I mean..?

 

The thing with MM is that they will take just as much as you're prepared to give of your time and energy, goodwill and understanding. If he wants to leave, why not now? Why the end of the calendar year. And notice, that's not a promise to leave by the end of the year, that's a 'decision' to be made by the end of the year. It really is nothing but an attempt of his to buy more time from you, and obviously that's working...

 

Not saying this to be mean, but just because I've been there, and with the best will in the world no-one can say they will make a decision in three months time, particularly not when they're evidently not taking it very seriously at all... asking you to travel with him next time she's not around...

 

He does not appreciate what this will do to you in terms of self-esteem, and hurt. And he won't appreciate it because all he is thinking about is himself. Again, not meaning to be mean, because I have loved an MM too, and I know it's not easy for them to leave etc. etc. kids blah, but they are ALL of them just buying time in one way or another. Making a decision is pie-in-the sky. 90% of the time the 'decision' is made for them as a direct result of their continuing to p-off and hurt everyone around them in an attempt to 'get their needs met' while doing everything they can to look like the good guy.

 

OK I'm going to stop because I'm sounding a little negative ... but I'm just being realistic. My best advice to you is to assume that there will be no decision made at the end of the calendar year, and then go from there.

 

 

I intend to stick to my guns and not go as long as he's not separated. - what do you think?

 

As far as the relationship goes -should I wait it out at least until the end of the year, see how we like each other as people, not just BF and GF?

 

I think yes, do not go anywhere with him until he's separated.

 

The other question is far, far trickier. I don't necessarily think that continuing to be in contact with him constitutes an Emotional Affair... if staying in touch with and being a friend with an EX means you're in an affair with them, then I'm in an affair with at least three exes

 

However, don't assume that just because you're not having sex with him that you're not feeding his ego, and giving him strokes, and making his life exciting and happy. Because you are. And that is the situation: you're making his life good, while at the same time he gets on with being married. Just ignore the 'decision in 3 months' thing - for your own sanity.

 

If you can see it all that way, and you've known him for such a short time... then hopefully you'll get on with the dating others thing...

[Luckyluss]

Dear Franny,

 

I so agree about a lot of what you said, a lot hit home with me.

 

I now know that it's out the question that I travel with him in January if he's not seaprated. I will not be "entertainment" while the W is away. That much is clear.

 

You also ask "why doesn't he separate now?" - good question, I would ask the same...he says it's because he "can't fight on all fronts at the same time". These 3 months will be decisive in terms of his work and I suspect, his wife's coming and going. In any case I agree that it shouldn't concern me at all. It's that 3 mo. is a reasonable amount of time for me to wait, to see if he means what he says - that he wants to separate. Now maybe he's a liar but that's not the sense I got from him - and I've been lucky that all my life I've been with pretty honnest guys.

 

As far as friendship, I'm still not sure what to do, cut all contact or see him sometimes. I do enjoy his company and but my aim is NOT to make myself suffer and certainly NOT to feed his ego.

So Yes, I'm still interested.

Yes, I will date others.

And yes, I will give it up in December. I know me, I just don't have the patience or inclination to wait very long.

 

So I'm asking you, in case it would influence the outcome: friends in the meantime, or nothing? Is it better to withhold all contact or as much as possible and tell him it's better not to see each other while still a MM? or go with the flow and with the friendship in the meantime, see if I still like what I see?

 

Thanks....

[MistyK]

What are you going to do when he inevitably asks for more time? And trust me, he will.

[Luckyluss]

No more time. Actually it doesn't even look like he'll hold out his marriage until then....

[Luckyluss]

...he asked me that I not go to an event he was planning to attend w/ his wife and son because he was positive that the second she would see me there she would know what happened between us and start yelling at him and the son later that nite. I agreed to not go - we have some common friends and the whole thing would have been awkward for me too - but now I feel uneasy: how can she be both so jealous and threatening to leave him at the same time? and how come he's so scared of her - like she has all these powers or something? that sure feels like it's a co-dependent relationship, and i should how i feel to get this off my chest. what do you all think?

[VictoryisMine]

He is probably nervous as hell that you might say or do something.

 

I know you feel uneasy. Those are one of the emotions i was talking about. This is going to be a crazy ride for you the next three months (his goal).

 

As i said, i'm going thru one myself.

 

As you go along with this, watch... and listen, and make your own judgement.

[GreenEyedLady]

I am now married to fMM. It actually took over 2 and half years before he ended the M.

 

With me thinking he was single the first half of that time.

 

Look, you're going to do what you're going to do. It's only been 2 months, do you think you can do this for two years or even longer?

 

My H didn't treat me like a mistress and was actually very good to me considering what some OW go through. But that's because I demanded it. If I didn't like what he was doing, I'd break up with him.

 

The fact of the matter is that he's lying to you about something, whether you think so or not. Believe me, I KNOW. And you will spend a certain amount of time upset and pissed off as the OW. You probably won't get holidays (maybe some not others),you won't get that much time most likely, and you may not get to actually go "out" on a date. This was not my situation, but it is the majority OW situation.

 

If you wait it out, it may or may not be successful. It depends on how compatible you are as a couple and whether you fill his essential needs or not. That's why when I hear that you've been in the R for 2 months, I think get out. You do not want all the bull**** that goes with being with someone who is married to someone else.

 

Because them leaving is actually only the BEGINNING of this wonderful roller coaster. Trust me on this one.

 

My H and I were very lucky that it was relatively easy for us, but that still means it was hard and if you aren't compatible with each other and really committed to working out, it's not going to work out. He'll waffle, he'll lie, he'll make excuses as to why he has to go to the STBX's house the list goes on and on. I never had any of that and I wouldn't have tolerated it anyway. I'd have said sayonara.

 

Life is too short to be with someone who feels so entitled.

 

Why is my story different? I think because my H realized the problem was with him, not with his XW, not with me, but him. And I saw the changes and I see him growing up and facing what he needs to face instead of running and hiding.

 

So the worst thing about men that cheat is that there is some part of them that is broken. And only they can fix that. They have to be able to identify that what they are doing is wrong, stop justifying it and then go about becoming the real "them." It takes patience as their partner and from what I've seen on this board and others, alot of men who cheat just aren't ready or willing to be self-reflective. After all when the W stays with them no matter what and the OW never leaves, they have NO INCENTIVE to make a change.

 

So bottom line is if he left do you have even a shadow of a doubt you actually want him? And think about that one. You don't claim undying love and affection.

 

GEL

[Luckyluss]

[so the worst thing about men that cheat is that there is some part of them that is broken. And only they can fix that. They have to be able to identify that what they are doing is wrong, stop justifying it and then go about becoming the real "them." It takes patience as their partner and from what I've seen on this board and others, alot of men who cheat just aren't ready or willing to be self-reflective. After all when the W stays with them no matter what and the OW never leaves, they have NO INCENTIVE to make a change.

 

So bottom line is if he left do you have even a shadow of a doubt you actually want him? And think about that one. You don't claim undying love and affection.

 

GEL

 

Yes you are so right GEL, he needs to fix himself first, and I'm willing to suspend judgment and watch for the next 3 months what happens, as he is thinking and reflecting.

 

Also don;t forget that I'm no longer involved with him sexually and will not be until he leaves his W. I don;t "profess undying love", because I'm afraid to get very hurt if I do, and I'm trying to protect myself here.

 

If he left tomorrow, I would want to be with him. Although he is not perfect, I'm willing explore a serious relationship with him. He has so much I want in a man, adn although we didn't have our A for long, we are very open to each other and close. I told him how i felt yesterday about him not wanting to be in the same room with me and his wife, that it hurt my feelings and never again would I let him make such a request, adn for him to examine what it meant to live like that, terrified of someone's reactions. He's aware that it's a co-dependent realtionship and is working on sorting himself out. I know my road is not easy ahead, but I certainly will give it a little time.

 

Did you continue your A physically for the 2 1/2 years - just curious about how that went for you. You also talked about situations you refused to be involved with - what examples did you have?

[Luckyluss]

He is probably nervous as hell that you might say or do something.

 

I know you feel uneasy. Those are one of the emotions i was talking about. This is going to be a crazy ride for you the next three months (his goal).

 

As i said, i'm going thru one myself.

 

As you go along with this, watch... and listen, and make your own judgement.

 

 

I didn;t realize that it was him who would be unsettled by my presence, not the opposite. I can hold my own in any situation...in the meantime I 'm following your advice, watching and listening carefully.

 

How are things working out for you?

[VictoryisMine]

I'm kinda losing my patience with this whole ordeal Luckyluss.

 

Something very soon is going to give. One way or another.

 

I will put a new thread about it all come Monday.

 

Real quick, when me and MM were just screwing around in the beginning, his wife was coming down for a week.

I asked him to bring her in to where i work (of course i want to check her out) assured him i'm not going to do anything crazy, just wanna see.

 

He brought her in, but it wasn't my shift.

 

Later he told me he was 'nervous as hell' i might say or do something....

[Luckyluss]

for the support and keep us posted...

 

 

The thing is sometimes you have to go through the end of a story to realize that this is it, that you can take no more. We all have your breaking points and mine hasn;t arrived yet, we set in for December.

I can only imagine the heartache if things don't start moving forward, but in love we take a gamble, adn in this case we do it with our eyes wide open.

 

I wish us all the wisdom to understand when it's time to let go, and when it's ok to move ahead...

[frannie]

... You also ask "why doesn't he separate now?" - good question, I would ask the same...he says it's because he "can't fight on all fronts at the same time". These 3 months will be decisive in terms of his work and I suspect, his wife's coming and going. In any case I agree that it shouldn't concern me at all. It's that 3 mo. is a reasonable amount of time for me to wait, to see if he means what he says - that he wants to separate. Now maybe he's a liar but that's not the sense I got from him...

 

 

I don't think it's necessarily that he is lying, exactly. It's just that he's really not going to be giving it the consideration that YOU deserve, because he doesn't realise (and how could he, you don't realise yet either) how much this is going to affect you if you get yourself involved in a long-term affair. He's thinking short-term, and three months is a conveniently long enough time for him to safely put all considerations of 'a decision' out of his head. Believe me, in January something else will come up. But by then you'll have found out you DO like him, and in all likelihood think that the newest 'reason' he has for not getting separated is something plausible... and so it goes on.

 

...

So I'm asking you, in case it would influence the outcome: friends in the meantime, or nothing? Is it better to withhold all contact or as much as possible and tell him it's better not to see each other while still a MM? or go with the flow and with the friendship in the meantime, see if I still like what I see?

 

My best advice here is to do ONLY what suits you and what you want to do. I think the worst thing an OW can do is to try to do things in order to influence the outcome. What you start to do is second-guess him, and lose yourself as you become more and more focused on what HE is going to do. Til it becomes critical to your happiness that this man follows through on his words, or you're 'good enough' for him to leave, or whichever hook influences you personally, could be any number of things.

 

Just do what you want to do. Like GEL I'd say ... lucky, you're only two months in... get out now before you go crazy. But I very clearly remember a friend telling me that right at the beginning of my affair, and I took no notice whatever, thinking I would be able to break it off later... um... I'm still talking to him and it's almost 5 and a half years later. And I'm not a wuss... it is just SUCH a difficult thing to get out of once you start getting into a relationship like this.

 

 

...he asked me that I not go to an event he was planning to attend w/ his wife and son because he was positive that the second she would see me there she would know what happened between us and start yelling at him and the son later that nite. I agreed to not go - we have some common friends and the whole thing would have been awkward for me too - but now I feel uneasy: how can she be both so jealous and threatening to leave him at the same time? and how come he's so scared of her - like she has all these powers or something? that sure feels like it's a co-dependent relationship, and i should how i feel to get this off my chest. what do you all think?

 

My gut feeling on this is that there is a dynamic between him and his W that he does not want you to see. I'd also say that he's asking you to change your plans to suit him - not good. Also, that you changed your plans to suit him - doubly not good. You do not want to be in this situation, because you're going to end up unhappy... Just my opinion of course.

[GreenEyedLady]

Did you continue your A physically for the 2 1/2 years - just curious about how that went for you. You also talked about situations you refused to be involved with - what examples did you have?

 

Of course I was with him physically. Why the hell else would I stick around?

 

I am all about getting my needs met. I would not have stuck around if I was not getting what I needed. And we did break up 3 times when I felt like I was getting less than I needed.

 

But he was very good to me considering he did have limitations. I never let him off the hook for being married. I considered that his problem, not mine. We spent Christmas and New Years together and we always were out in public (fortunate for him that I lived far away from his other life). He always spent the night and I really never felt like I was a mistress. I met his friends and coworkers. We went on vacation together and he took care of me after surgery, so it wasn't a typical A.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by examples, so I hope I answered your questions.

 

GEL

[fooled once]

...he asked me that I not go to an event he was planning to attend w/ his wife and son because he was positive that the second she would see me there she would know what happened between us and start yelling at him and the son later that nite. I agreed to not go - we have some common friends and the whole thing would have been awkward for me too - but now I feel uneasy: how can she be both so jealous and threatening to leave him at the same time? and how come he's so scared of her - like she has all these powers or something? that sure feels like it's a co-dependent relationship, and i should how i feel to get this off my chest. what do you all think?

 

 

My opinion ...

 

He didn't want you to see him and his wife together. He didn't want you to see him lean over and whisper to her and maybe kiss her ear. He didn't want you to see him with his arm around her, maybe rubbing her back or under her arm.

 

He didn't want you to see them laughing together, giving each other that look that people who KNOW each other can give each other -- the look that many happily married people can give each other from across the room.

[VictoryisMine]

Lol, if you think so fooled once, if you think so.... and then we woke up.

[fooled once]

Lol, if you think so fooled once, if you think so.... and then we woke up.

 

I don't get what you are saying....

 

You don't think it is possible that the reason he didn't want her there is because he DOES love his wife and just enjoys sneaking around?

 

You don't think even a little bit that I might have hit on the truth? Wouldn't be the first time it has happened as I have SEEN it happen with someone I work with.

[VictoryisMine]

Okay, yeah, maybe so, but it seemed so exaggerated, whisper sweet nothings into her ear.

 

You may be right! No sarcasm.

[whichwayisup]

Maybe he was scared she would pick up the vibe, a certain energy between you two and then start asking him questions.. Or it really could be he doesn't trust you enough. Maybe he thought you would be too flirty and making too much eye contact with him infront of his wife, play a little game..

[ForumFool]

I am liking this less and less. At first I was all for waiting 3 months no contact and NO trip while his wife was out of town. Then seeing what was up..Now I think maybe NC and I mean NC .....6 months and wait to SEE the divorce papers..if he doesn't know in 3 months and hasn't acted on a divorce in 3 additional months...he isn't going to leave his wife and is a player...BUT I would myself..wait ....3-6 months ..while I dated others and if he came with divorce papers give him a chance...

 

 

...he asked me that I not go to an event he was planning to attend w/ his wife and son because he was positive that the second she would see me there she would know what happened between us and start yelling at him and the son later that nite. I agreed to not go - we have some common friends and the whole thing would have been awkward for me too - but now I feel uneasy: how can she be both so jealous and threatening to leave him at the same time? and how come he's so scared of her - like she has all these powers or something? that sure feels like it's a co-dependent relationship, and i should how i feel to get this off my chest. what do you all think?

[Sanafa]

To be honest, GEL makes the most sense.... imo

 

What I am learning now with LC after 6 weeks of NC is this

 

I am much clearer on what I want and not prepared to dance. We talked for over an hour on Sunday and in that was a lot of what I got when we went NC

 

" If our DDay was a year later" " If she didn't want to work it out" "If" and the one thing that I learned was he is still putting his future in other people's hands (mine included).

 

I was very clear I will NEVER go back to the OW - Even though much like GEL, I was never hidden - we went out all the time and I knew his friends, he knew mine ( that caused our DDay - but that is another story that has already been told).

 

Regardless, what LC has given me is the clarity that he STILL needs to figure it out and that he is a big boy.... the more I and his W enable him, the longer the triangle will play out.

 

What I have avoided in LC is being his shoulder... I am nice, and we don't talk much and right now I am happy with the choices and moving forward I will continue to make sure I am taking care of me.

 

I learned in Management one thing - Some people only impress when asked ( meaning they are happy to waffle through but when an expectation is actually made - often it is the kick they need to achieve and exceed it).

 

I am at a similar place... his W can meet his EN's all she wants.... if she is, I however think he is far smarter than he is behaving and time for him to do the hard work himself.

 

If he does it, only time will tell...... but time will tell, it always does.

[Luckyluss]

I hear a lot of you telling me to get out now while there's still time.

 

Ot to wait and see and be sure that my needs are met in the meantime.

 

So now I'm open to others and I'm dating, and somedays I feel ok. On others days, I wish I would have chosen an easier route than loving someone attached. I do have friends that have had affairs and knew their MM would never get divorced. But the reason I went into is that I sensed it was a matter of time before he separated. Something inside me tells me to wait and see, with an internal deadline of december. There's much in the balance for him: a W who threatens to take their child back overseas, and knows that it's the only card she holds. And perhaps I won't be there anymore to see the results.

 

And me - i'm trying to take care of myself. As I said, date, see friends...

see him sometimes (platonically), talk to him sometimes.

 

I think of SANAFA's comment about not wanting to be a shoulder, not enabling. What do you all think? Stop being that, also? Is that better?

[stampdaddy]

I think of SANAFA's comment about not wanting to be a shoulder, not enabling. What do you all think? Stop being that, also? Is that better?

 

 

you KNOW the answer...... why ask the question to us?

[Luckyluss]

I wouldn;t ask if I knew the answer.

 

Some of my friends have said that this is a crucial time when our relationship will evolve and I'll see what he's made of and/or how much I really like him....

[stampdaddy]

I wouldn;t ask if I knew the answer.

 

Some of my friends have said that this is a crucial time when our relationship will evolve and I'll see what he's made of and/or how much I really like him....

 

"see what he is made of..." huh?

 

what he is made of is a wife and children... good luck, sorry to sound like an ass, but......

[claire28]

This dating part, after a year of my MM saying he would never leave, I believed him. I then started dating. He then said he would leave. Its now 9 months later. He is still at home. I haven't dated for 9 months and am still waiting.

 

 

(Just in case thats what you are kind of hoping for)