Thoughts on going back to the "old way"

[cnkale80]

As I read through different forums and talk with people about marriage, I tend to wonder if there is an underlying common theme that contributes to a stable, happy, lifelong marriage. I seriously believe that men and women who understand that there are separate roles in a marriage will be the ones who experience a lifelong faithful marriage. It appears that many men put their careers first, i.e. money, status, etc. and many women constantly fight to share the equalities of men in society. Men and women are no more/less equal than each other, however, God ordained us to be equal, yet, distinct. People turn to Dr. Phil, The View, and all those worthless TV shows only to gain a liberalized, anti-Bible definition of marriage. Why don't people go right to the source? The Bible. For those who claim to be atheist and married, isn't being a married atheist and oxy-moron? Anyways, got a lil off topic there, sorry. I have a huge fear of divorce maybe because my parents have been together 35 years strong. Sure they have had bumps in the road but my mother always submitted to my father as the man of the house and he always respected her as the woman of the house, both different. I believe the answer to why there is so much divorce is obvious but people won't admit that their selfishness and pursuit of money and high powered careers is a huge reason. What are your thoughts? BTW, for the feminists and atheists, please remain respectful. Thank you.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I don't know that going back to the old way would do any good. It isn't that people didn't want to divorce back then - it was because divorce was taboo, something not socially acceptable. Now it is, and people divorce because they can, regardless of how their homes are run, and regardless of their religious beliefs.

 

Marriages were not necessarily better back then - adultery, abuse, alcoholism - you name it - were tolerated because it looked better socially to stay married than to admit defeat and shamefully divorce.

 

I see it as more of a social issue than a religious one.

[angie2443]

Marriages were not necessarily better back then - adultery, abuse, alcoholism - you name it - were tolerated because it looked better socially to stay married than to admit defeat and shamefully divorce.

.

 

I would like that these things were more tolerated by women since there was less of a stigma for a single man then a single woman. Also, depending on how far back in history you are going, there were fewer work oportunities for women. Many women stayed in an unhealthy marriage out of fear, not out of love.

[RedDevil66]

there is a very simple reason why there is so much divorce, it's because there is marriage that there is divorce.

The bible was written by the mind of a man, the ego of a man and the controlling nature of a man.

 

Marriage can be whatever people want it to be. A commintment does not have to be in the eyes of anyone, but the two people who want to commit.

Everyone I know who was married, are now divorced, everyone I know who've been together w/out that silly piece of paper, are still together 20, 25 30 yrs into it.

 

Women and men are equal in every way. What we are, is just different. We are meant to procreate to keep the species going (instinct) and nothing else. But along the way, we developed egos.

 

Humans are defective, period!

[angie2443]

I think it is very easy to romanticize the past. We, for the most part, are not living with the realities of the past. We can sit here, thinking about our stressful lives, and think longingly of the days where life was simple. The woman stayed home and tended the house and children. The man went out to work. Very simple. It is easy to forget about all the stress that must have occured back then. Families went hungry more often, children were less likely to get out of an abusive home, disease was more deadly, a woman was more likely to stay with an abusive man because of fear of not bieng able to support herself, ect. When I forget about some of these things, I can get a bit romantic when thinking about the past. When I think of what life was often like back then, I am more than happy to be living in the present, high divorce rate and all!

[sally4sara]

As I read through different forums and talk with people about marriage, I tend to wonder if there is an underlying common theme that contributes to a stable, happy, lifelong marriage. I seriously believe that men and women who understand that there are separate roles in a marriage will be the ones who experience a lifelong faithful marriage. It appears that many men put their careers first, i.e. money, status, etc. and many women constantly fight to share the equalities of men in society. Men and women are no more/less equal than each other, however, God ordained us to be equal, yet, distinct. People turn to Dr. Phil, The View, and all those worthless TV shows only to gain a liberalized, anti-Bible definition of marriage. Why don't people go right to the source? The Bible. For those who claim to be atheist and married, isn't being a married atheist and oxy-moron? Anyways, got a lil off topic there, sorry. I have a huge fear of divorce maybe because my parents have been together 35 years strong. Sure they have had bumps in the road but my mother always submitted to my father as the man of the house and he always respected her as the woman of the house, both different. I believe the answer to why there is so much divorce is obvious but people won't admit that their selfishness and pursuit of money and high powered careers is a huge reason. What are your thoughts? BTW, for the feminists and atheists, please remain respectful. Thank you.

 

I have read the bible and was raised to be very active within the church my family attended. Along the way, I noticed much which contributed to why I am now a feminist and an atheist.

These marriages had the same troubles and amounts of trouble other, non religious couples experienced. The difference was that the wives were influenced by their religion's expectations to tolerate their husbands transgressions. They were raised to feel that it was their duty to their deity to persevere. It seemed very convenient to men that the christian religion called for their wives to be the glue that held the marriage together no matter how damaging the acts of the husband. Meanwhile, if the wife were the transgressor, the same religion called on husbands to "put their wife away" for the same type of action.

The bible is the reason my grandmother tolerated being physically abused by my grandfather. She tolerated his abuse of her children because her god promised her a life without turmoil if she endured this "test".

I watched women tolerate infidelity, neglect, abandonment, substance addictions -all for the chance at heaven. These same actions out of a woman found no acceptance.

And I find the whole set up to be rigged. To keep women in situations no one should tolerate, but that is the secret to many of the long standing marriages people try to admire - one person willing to be the other's target and doormat. Or should I say...."help meat". They are small girls being told they they must find someone to serve. They have no purpose other than bearing children. If they have some physical condition that prevents them from any of the expectations put on them - it is god's will and some trial they must endure and accept. They cannot have a goal of their own but rather only help some man accomplish his goal and anything that man does to her that causes her pain or heartache is god's "test" for her to achieve heaven. And if she protests - well she isn't being a child of god and SHE is the one ruining the marriage.

You ask me and others like me to remain respectful? I find most people still deluded enough to believe these things, don't know the real meaning of the word respect.

[KikiW]

As angie said, it's very easy to pine for the old days when life was "simpler"... how easy it is to think that when you put on rose-colored glasses. Life wasn't simpler. It was hard. People tolerated bad marriages, many times out of necessity (how many people stayed together simply because the depression forced them to?). So often I see the 50s romanticized with this June Cleaver ideal and anyone who actually lived through it can tell you the vast majority didn't have that.

 

I am not a religious person, but I respect people who find comfort with the bible and any other religious teachings. But I don't find the bible has the "answers" - I believe it can be a guide for those who need a little reassurance or strength or feel they cannot do it alone. But anyone who's read the bible must admit there are many ideas that are contradictory to each other. The lessons can be extreme and unrealistic. I don't believe the bible has the ultimate answers to staying married.

[Trialbyfire]

All I can do is to thank Feminism, that things aren't like the old ways, whereby women were considered chattels to men.

 

Could someone show me some empirical evidence, that marriage was created by organized religion?

[Nikki Sahagin]

I know that I wouldn't be happy if I had to stay at home always. Also....many women are housewives and stay at home mothers in the present day and age. Yes, many women work, but a lot of women still fulfill that traditional role - its all a preference/choice/decision.

 

Personally I feel a woman has so much more to offer than just being at home. Yes in becoming a mother and wife you have responsibilies to your children and husband, but I often think that life is so unfulfilling. The man can earn money, have a social outlet, go to the gym on his lunchbreak, pub afterwards - the woman sits at home all day, yes raising the children and sharing that, but ultimately alone, no real or elongated conversation, no social outlet, lots of stress and I think she stews away in this desperate state. I mean if all day long all you had was the company of children, no matter how much you loved them, wouldn't you go mad? I think some women can do it and those are saints. Some have the money/freedom to raise children and still be happy in all other areas. Also some men i'm sure would rather be at home with the kids than at work, but for many work is an escape!

 

I don't think we would be any happier bringing back traditional roles for all the reasons people have already listed.

[Neutrino]

As I read through different forums and talk with people about marriage, I tend to wonder if there is an underlying common theme that contributes to a stable, happy, lifelong marriage. I seriously believe that men and women who understand that there are separate roles in a marriage will be the ones who experience a lifelong faithful marriage. It appears that many men put their careers first, i.e. money, status, etc. and many women constantly fight to share the equalities of men in society. Men and women are no more/less equal than each other, however, God ordained us to be equal, yet, distinct. People turn to Dr. Phil, The View, and all those worthless TV shows only to gain a liberalized, anti-Bible definition of marriage. Why don't people go right to the source? The Bible. For those who claim to be atheist and married, isn't being a married atheist and oxy-moron? Anyways, got a lil off topic there, sorry. I have a huge fear of divorce maybe because my parents have been together 35 years strong. Sure they have had bumps in the road but my mother always submitted to my father as the man of the house and he always respected her as the woman of the house, both different. I believe the answer to why there is so much divorce is obvious but people won't admit that their selfishness and pursuit of money and high powered careers is a huge reason. What are your thoughts? BTW, for the feminists and atheists, please remain respectful. Thank you.

 

 

 

The big old book of fairy tales... Religion is the biggest political hoax of all times - to keep people under a regime of ignorance and fear, naturally they were too afraid to express their unhappiness, and what we don't see doesn't exist, right ?

 

Religion is no more than "keeping the factory running" for rulers who want more workers / soldiers / tax payers with each passing generation, where stupidity and fear govern all (and people are not exactly an endangered species).

 

Some of us decided to develop further, think independently and make our own decisions, without fear. I understand for some this is just too hard to swallow...

[Neutrino]

there is a very simple reason why there is so much divorce, it's because there is marriage that there is divorce.

The bible was written by the mind of a man, the ego of a man and the controlling nature of a man.

 

Marriage can be whatever people want it to be. A commintment does not have to be in the eyes of anyone, but the two people who want to commit.

Everyone I know who was married, are now divorced, everyone I know who've been together w/out that silly piece of paper, are still together 20, 25 30 yrs into it.

 

Women and men are equal in every way. What we are, is just different. We are meant to procreate to keep the species going (instinct) and nothing else. But along the way, we developed egos.

 

Humans are defective, period!

 

I second that - with a minor amendment that the differences are not between genders, but among individuals...

 

And Sally4sara : words like daggers - right to the point !!!

[Stung]

As I read through different forums and talk with people about marriage, I tend to wonder if there is an underlying common theme that contributes to a stable, happy, lifelong marriage. I seriously believe that men and women who understand that there are separate roles in a marriage will be the ones who experience a lifelong faithful marriage. It appears that many men put their careers first, i.e. money, status, etc. and many women constantly fight to share the equalities of men in society. Men and women are no more/less equal than each other, however, God ordained us to be equal, yet, distinct. People turn to Dr. Phil, The View, and all those worthless TV shows only to gain a liberalized, anti-Bible definition of marriage. Why don't people go right to the source? The Bible. For those who claim to be atheist and married, isn't being a married atheist and oxy-moron? Anyways, got a lil off topic there, sorry. I have a huge fear of divorce maybe because my parents have been together 35 years strong. Sure they have had bumps in the road but my mother always submitted to my father as the man of the house and he always respected her as the woman of the house, both different. I believe the answer to why there is so much divorce is obvious but people won't admit that their selfishness and pursuit of money and high powered careers is a huge reason. What are your thoughts? BTW, for the feminists and atheists, please remain respectful. Thank you.

 

I respectfully submit that you check your sources and do a little historical research. Marriage exists in many forms in all societies in this world, not just Christian societies. All religions have marriage, and marriage is an important institution for many atheists as well, as it is a legal and social contract binding lovers into family. That you believe it is a contract with your God as well is just icing on the cake for you, IMO. Also, just because a marriage lasts doesn't mean it's a happy one...my grandparents were married sixty-five bitter miserable years in 'the old way' you look back on so fondly, if divorce had been more socially acceptable back then my grandmother would have gotten one in a heartbeat and to be honest, her whole family would likely have been better off.

 

I am a feminist and an agnostic with strong atheist leanings, and my wedding is only a month away. I respect marriage and am eager to solemnize my own partnership. My parents have been married for forty years, they are feminists and atheists as well. My mom worked until she retired last year, yet my parents had a happy marriage of equals. I have worked most of my life as well, yet I am currently a stay-at-home mother. I love and respect my partner and we have different roles we prefer to take on in our family, but I certainly don't submit to him in any way...we both have our individual strengths and weaknesses and we shore each other up nicely, I can't imagine why that should mean he is 'superior' to me in some way. I personally don't see any conflict with any of these things and would be heartily offended if you told me to my face that my wedding was meaningless and my being married was an oxymoron. People, men and women both, are multi-faceted, and marriage is complicated. You're trying to boil it down into something more palatable to you, while discarding all other viewpoints and beliefs.

[LakesideDream]

For 25 years I believed I was living the best of both ways, a beautiful wife who was headstrong and full of spirit, and a long term great marriage. Then one day it disolved. Literally in one day. 25 years up in vapor. She wanted to move in and start a new life with her H.S. boyfriend. And she did. Needless to say, this rocked the family, including our two chillin's.

 

Both my kids are still not married. They are 29 & 30. Their mother and I shocked them with a divorce when they were 20 & 21. When I talk to my son, he says "he hasn't found the right lady", OK. My daughter says much the same then continues.....

 

"What's the use Dad?" You and Mom were married 25 years, then all of a sudden one day you were divorced. I always tell her that she shouldn't live her life wondering what if, that she should live her life excited by what can be. All I get back is a sardonic smile.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if the example they watched didn't alter their lives as much as mine.

 

Why is this important? I'm not sure. I wish thing had been different.

[Trialbyfire]

Lakeside, was your wife a SAHM?

[LakesideDream]

Lakeside, was your wife a SAHM?

 

Took awhile to figure out SAHM, you'd think after years of LS I'd be hip...

 

Anyhow.. The answer is half. For the first 9 nine years after she got pregnant she stayed at home. She had never worked "seriously" before the she got pregnant the first time, her only job being part time retail (< 20 hours ) at minimum wage. After the kids were big she wanted to work for the social aspects I think. Starting at minimum wage she worked at one place for almost 10 years, making a little more than the expense of working. I was the "earner".

 

Curious, why is it important?

[Trialbyfire]

Took awhile to figure out SHAM, you'd think after years of LS I'd be hip...

 

Anyhow.. The answer is half. For the first 9 nine years after she got pregnant she stayed at home. She had never worked "seriously" before the she got pregnant the first time, her only job being part time retail (< 20 hours ) at minimum wage. After the kids were big she wanted to work for the social aspects I think. Starting at minimum wage she worked at one place for almost 10 years, making a little more than the expense of working. I was the "earner".

 

Curious, why is it important?

Was SHAM, a freudian slip?

 

I was curious how your marriage fit into the typical traditional pattern, that the opening poster discusses, about gender roles within marriages.

 

Thanks for clearing it up for me.

[LakesideDream]

Was SHAM, a freudian slip?

 

I was curious how your marriage fit into the typical traditional pattern, that the opening poster discusses, about gender roles within marriages.

 

Thanks for clearing it up for me.

 

 

TBF, Tell me... was it traditional ?

[Trialbyfire]

TBF, Tell me... was it traditional ?

IMO, yes it was, in that she went from the family home without much life or work experience, directly into being a SAHM, whereby she returned to work for the social aspect, after the kids got older.