ShadesOfGrey Posted September 20, 2009 Posted September 20, 2009 How many affairs carry on for years without being discovered? Is there *always* a D-Day? I'm wondering how common it is for affairs that include daily contact to go undiscovered for years? I have been involved with a MM for about a year now. Our "relationship" has become far more intimate since he has brought me into the business he owns. Foolish? Yup. For both of us...but it seems to provide a "front" for us and I happen to do very well in this position and have grown his business by leaps and bounds in a short period of time. His W plays no role in the business. Will I be screwed at some point by this? Probably. He is very, very good to me, in every way. He visits me to hold me for hours when I'm not feeling well. He texts me all throughout the day, I speak to him on the phone multiple times a day and see him anywhere from 2-5x a week. We are intimately involved in each other's daily lives and have become quite attached to each other. There is no talk of a future-I laid it out early on that we weren't going to play that game and he only goes so far as to talk about how much I'd break his heart if I moved on from our affair. I know he loves me...he is the most expressive, tender and loving man I've ever known. While we have been intimate in other ways, we have not yet had sex (my choice). We very, very rarely discuss his M, but he claims his W does not know anything and that he is very careful-I disagree. We spend a LOT of time together, he has stopped wearing his wedding ring, he attends events with me, we are traveling for business together this fall...he even insisted on taking me to the hospital when I very easily could have been taken by someone else. I can call or text him whenever I like. He spends a good bit of money on me, and so much time that I have to think that either the wife suspects something...or doesn't care. Is that just fantasy on my part? Maybe... I sometimes wonder if I am the only one who does not want his W to find out. Is it possible that despite what I've told him, this is an exit affair-or an attempt at one? He seems so nonchalant about his W finding out that I am genuinely confused. I DO love him, very much, but I DON'T want him to leave his wife...for very selfish reasons. I don't want the guilt of breaking up his huge, young family. I feel like I'm actively avoiding D-Day, and he almost acts like he wants to be discovered. I know he is unhappy in his marriage, but I also don't think he will be the one to leave. This makes me wonder if he wants us to be discovered? And if so, is it because he wants the affair to end...or progress?
boldjack Posted September 20, 2009 Posted September 20, 2009 From what you say, OP, I would tend to think she either knows or suspects something. You are in a very hard situation. You are involved with somebody at work, the worst affair you can have. Regardless of what some posters say mainly lying to soothe their own egos), affairs are usually discovered at some point. You have few choices, you can break contact, but that would probably cost you your job, or you could continue on as you are now, and help him ruin his family. I don't envy you, your choices.
norajane Posted September 20, 2009 Posted September 20, 2009 his huge, young family. Don't assume his wife knows about you. He could be lying his ass off about how busy he is running his business for the good of his family, and since you are conveniently working with him, that provides a perfect excuse for being around you. She could be very busy taking care of that huge family and managing that household while he is playing absentee husband/father. I feel like I'm actively avoiding D-Day, and he almost acts like he wants to be discovered. I know he is unhappy in his marriage, but I also don't think he will be the one to leave. This makes me wonder if he wants us to be discovered? And if so, is it because he wants the affair to end...or progress? You need to ask him what he's doing and why he's risking getting caught. He's already told you he's being careful around his wife, so he'll probably tell you he's not trying to get caught. Be specific and point out what it is you are noticing about his behavior that is risky. Regardless of what he's doing, what are YOU doing? What do you want out of this if you believe he will never leave his family, and you're not having sex with him, and are putting your career at risk?
jj33 Posted September 20, 2009 Posted September 20, 2009 Its very possible he wants people to find out so he will have an excuse to get out but he wont be the one doing it. In retrospect, I wonder if the man I was involved with was doing that. He was not careful about things he should have been careful about that would have embarrassed his wife. His neighbors may have noticed how much time I spent at his house, seen me coming in the evenings, leaving to go to work in the morning, one of his children could have popped in as one did one evening minutes before I pitched up. Their friends could have seen us in the neighborhood together late in the evening (and its not close enough to his office to make it plausible. Its a residential neighborhood). But you know what? Thats not good enough. You dont want him to be that passive. Because when push comes to shove, you dont know that he wont say oh W I am such a fool, dont kick me out. Unless you like that kind of passive agressive manipulative thing in a guy. Its hard not to, but try not to read smoke signals. He could just be arrogant and think that hes untouchable. That sounds more likely to be the case.
bentnotbroken Posted September 20, 2009 Posted September 20, 2009 What a big ole steaming pile of walking doo he is. His wife will find out, especially since the work place is a breeding ground and other workers are very perceptive and someone will inevitably get pissed at your preferential treatment and start to talk.
Meaplus3 Posted September 20, 2009 Posted September 20, 2009 How many affairs carry on for years without being discovered? Is there *always* a D-Day? I'm wondering how common it is for affairs that include daily contact to go undiscovered for years? If you continue to read around here, you will discover that there is a mix of both. Some affairs are found out and some are well hidden for years. I have been involved with a MM for about a year now. Our "relationship" has become far more intimate since he has brought me into the business he owns. Foolish? Yup. For both of us...but it seems to provide a "front" for us and I happen to do very well in this position and have grown his business by leaps and bounds in a short period of time. His W plays no role in the business. Will I be screwed at some point by this? Probably. I would tend to think that it would be very easy for the wife to find out from one of her H's co-workers. How would you feel is that happens? He is very, very good to me, in every way. He visits me to hold me for hours when I'm not feeling well. He texts me all throughout the day, I speak to him on the phone multiple times a day and see him anywhere from 2-5x a week. We are intimately involved in each other's daily lives and have become quite attached to each other. While this all sounds good, The simple fact is he's a married man. He has a wife at home. He should be off limits to you until he makes a choice to leave his marriage. We very, very rarely discuss his M, but he claims his W does not know anything and that he is very careful-I disagree. Of course his wife probably does not know at this point. He's having an A with you, so why would he want her to find out? I don't want the guilt of breaking up his huge, young family. Then you need to break it off now. Because there is a chance of that taking place. Then how would you feel? Mea:)
LucreziaBorgia Posted September 20, 2009 Posted September 20, 2009 They may be one of those couples who knows that neither spouse is really going to go anywhere, and that the status quo will continue on like usual. Some wives just look the other way during the affair(s), and simply wait them out.
lovekillsslowly Posted September 20, 2009 Posted September 20, 2009 Hi ShadeOfGrey, I have two friends who are both involved in affairs. One has been involved in it for 10 years. She lives in a town with a population of only 1100 people. Her H has never found out. Neither has the MM's W. Granted she has had to deal with rumors but she just laughs and denies them and life goes on the way it has for 10 years. She has even told her H about the rumors just in case he would happen to hear about them and he laughs about them too. Obviously she is a very good actress and her H is very trusting. Oh her and her H have been married for 25 years. My other friend has been having an affair for 5 years now. She lives in a town of 50,000. She has been married for 23 years. The man she is involved with is not. They are business partners. A lot like your situation in regards to working together. Once again there has been rumors going around about them but so far either the H hasn't heard them or just chooses to ignore them. So yes, there are affairs that go on for years without ever facing a D-day. My affair lasted for 10 months. Town of 50,000. We have both been married for 20 years. We never got caught. My H never found out about it. My xMM just couldn't handle the stress and guilt associated with having an affair so he ended it. We are still friends. We continue to talk on the phone. And I wouldn't change a thing. Best of luck to you! I hope you get everything you're wishing for!
Author ShadesOfGrey Posted September 20, 2009 Author Posted September 20, 2009 Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and experiences. Yes, I know I am in the worst kind of affair-between his position, the fact that I now work for him...and yes, that I am somewhat financially dependent on him. I'm sure he is lying to his wife. I'm sure she is shouldering much of the child rearing responsibilities as a SAHM...but he has THREE jobs-2 businesses and his "position". I think he is neglecting his work more than his family-but that is where I come in. I work HARD for him, to ensure we HAVE time to spend together. My hard work has resulted in more time with his family, too. Will I lose my job over this? Probably. I came to work for him after our affair begun, but I work alone, so discovery through a co-worker is very slim as they do not see me on a regular basis. If I voluntarily leave the position, I will feel like I am screwing him and his business. If I were made to leave the company, there will have to be a severance package in exchange for a signed statement from me...he knows I could sue him. I HATE to think of things getting nasty between he and I, but I know if/when the sh*t hits the fan, anything can happen. Some have wondered why I have not had sex with him yet. At first, I wanted to protect him by allowing him to be able to say, "I never slept with her" if there were ever a D-Day. Then I realized that doesn't matter much, he won't be believed anyway. I'm also terrified of BC failing and becoming pregnant by him, but truthfully, I know I won't be able to hold out much longer. I know my feelings will grow even more when it does finally happen, and that scares me. We have certainly been intimate in other ways, just not intercourse. I just think that getting knocked up by MM is about the only way this affair could get worse, outside of a D-Day. Will it stop me? Sadly, probably not. I love him so much that not having that physical expression of love is becoming nearly impossible to bear. As for why he may want his wife to find out, there could be a million reasons why! I know that he loves her, doesn't speak badly of her, but that the romance left the M many years ago (according to him). I also know that due to his position, he cannot divorce her, but she can divorce him. His actions just seem odd sometimes, way too carefree. There are no rumors as of yet that I'm aware of. I could believe that both partners believe no one is going anywhere, due to his position and the kids. I could believe she blindly trusts him, as our community does, and believes he would never be unfaithful (which would likely cost him that position). I could also believe while she knows something is hinky, she prefers not having wifely duties to bother with anymore and chooses to let him have his needs fulfilled elsewhere. The problem remains...I *could* believe any of this. I dont' know what I *should* believe. I'm not breaking it off anytime soon...I'm in too deep with my heart. Ideally? This affair would continue for a few years until I work up the nerve to walk away and start looking for my own life partner, leaving the affair undiscovered. I don't want to break up his family. I also don't want to spend my entire youth like this. If his wife did leave him, I'd make myself available to him to explore a more permanent relationship, but I don't want to make him aware of this now. Any decisions he makes should not be based on my promises. Thank you again for your insight, blunt truths, painful questions and support...I have no one in my life to go to about this. I suppose that's just the nature of this beast..
LakesideDream Posted September 20, 2009 Posted September 20, 2009 I may be close to holding the record here on LS. My exW carried on an on again off again affair for 23 of our 25 year marriage. The situation was different though, for much of the time it was long distance. A few hundred miles seperated them. My guess is that it depends on the love and committment of the betrayed spouse. If they are in love, making an effort to improve the relationship the affair could literally go on forever. I know I was blind to the affair. We don't see what we are not looking for.
bentnotbroken Posted September 20, 2009 Posted September 20, 2009 If you wanted to know the truth you would at least get her side. You have chosen to "believe(ignore)" that he is more than likely lying because you want him. With both sides at least somewhere in the middle is the truth, but that's not what you are looking for, you just wanted to talk out loud so to speak. Your mind was made up when you came here.
Author ShadesOfGrey Posted September 20, 2009 Author Posted September 20, 2009 If you wanted to know the truth you would at least get her side. You have chosen to "believe(ignore)" that he is more than likely lying because you want him. With both sides at least somewhere in the middle is the truth, but that's not what you are looking for, you just wanted to talk out loud so to speak. Your mind was made up when you came here. I don't have to ask which camp you are apart of. I've been the betrayed before...I walked away from 7 years due to an 18 month affair (his). I know it's painful...brutally painful. My own affair has made me realize that life is not as black and white as we would all like to believe it is. As for getting the truth from her? Come on now. Even when the roles were reversed, I didn't expect "her" to ring me up so we'd have a nice chat about our shared man in order for her to manage her expectations! I have ideas about what I want and how I want things to go. Does that mean my mind is made up? No! I came here looking for insight. Opinions don't often change until someone presents a new POV. I'm looking for different points of view...and thankfully, I'm getting that here.
Author ShadesOfGrey Posted September 20, 2009 Author Posted September 20, 2009 I may be close to holding the record here on LS. My exW carried on an on again off again affair for 23 of our 25 year marriage. The situation was different though, for much of the time it was long distance. A few hundred miles seperated them. My guess is that it depends on the love and committment of the betrayed spouse. If they are in love, making an effort to improve the relationship the affair could literally go on forever. I know I was blind to the affair. We don't see what we are not looking for. I've experienced that blindness...which is why I wonder what I do. I think that you are right, as sad as it makes me to agree with you
jj33 Posted September 20, 2009 Posted September 20, 2009 You are looking at all sides which is good but you say you are protecting him by not sleeping with him? YOu are working harder so that you will have time to spend together? It sounds like you are doing all the work. You need to start thinking about protecting you. The affair is consensual. If something happened and they didnt FIRE you but it became too uncomfortable for you to be there (which can happen) suing is not a great option. You can sue and lose. You sound like you are very good at your job. Why not start looking for another position. Then the A can carry on if you want it to, but your professional life wont be tied up in his business and your livelihood. Its easy to say "I could sue him" winning or even getting a substantial settlement is a WHOLE other matter. You need to start taking care of you. You sound like a very bright woman who has devoted herself to doing whatever enables her to carry on the affair. Thats not necessarily a good life strategy. If he is in it with you, then if you pursue your own career, if he really loves you, he will find a way to spend time with you. He does not sound like he is leaving and I would not even factor that into your thoughts. COuld he would he should he? Maybe. But right now that doesnt sound like its on the table. YOu could waste a long time waiting for that inevitable day to come and more likely than not, would find you gambled and lost. Rule of thumb: When your expectations start to outweigh what the other person is capable of giving you, time to walk. You arent ready to leave, but its not too soon to start thinking about it.
bentnotbroken Posted September 20, 2009 Posted September 20, 2009 I don't have to ask which camp you are apart of. I've been the betrayed before...I walked away from 7 years due to an 18 month affair (his). I know it's painful...brutally painful. My own affair has made me realize that life is not as black and white as we would all like to believe it is. As for getting the truth from her? Come on now. Even when the roles were reversed, I didn't expect "her" to ring me up so we'd have a nice chat about our shared man in order for her to manage her expectations! I have ideas about what I want and how I want things to go. Does that mean my mind is made up? No! I came here looking for insight. Opinions don't often change until someone presents a new POV. I'm looking for different points of view...and thankfully, I'm getting that here. I am a part of the truth camp. Always have been, always will be. And yes, my life is that black and white, I try not to do anything to muddy it up. So you pass your pain on to someone else to experience, how magnanimous. I don't think I can be that generous. Loving someone who is married may not be a choice for some people, but acting on anything is always a choice. If you are only controlled by your heart, then your brain has no function, except to give cranium a some what circular form.
Author ShadesOfGrey Posted September 20, 2009 Author Posted September 20, 2009 I am a part of the truth camp. Always have been, always will be. And yes, my life is that black and white, I try not to do anything to muddy it up. So you pass your pain on to someone else to experience, how magnanimous. I don't think I can be that generous. Loving someone who is married may not be a choice for some people, but acting on anything is always a choice. If you are only controlled by your heart, then your brain has no function, except to give cranium a some what circular form. If I had wanted to hash this out with a clearly very hurt BS, I would have posted in the Infidelity forum. I've lived my life as you have yours...until last year. It's dangerously easy to develop a "holier than thou" attitude, believing life IS black and white. My experience, my pain has NOTHING to do with why I am in my current situation, and I find your statement rather offensive. As a matter of fact, it seems YOU are trying to pass YOUR pain on to ME. Pot, I am pleased to meet you. Blinders come in many forms.
bentnotbroken Posted September 20, 2009 Posted September 20, 2009 No pain here. Just saying what I see. There is nothing holier about my life, than yours. I am human, bad choices are a part of living. Intentional bad choices are something that I try to refrain from. If you find my post offensive...you are in good company here.:DIt is normal for me. I'm good with it. As far a passing pain, as I said before, I am not that generous.
skylarblue Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 My MM's W hasn't found out in the 5yrs we've been dating. We talk everyday and see each other several times a week also, but unlike you, everything is done in secrecy. Thinking about it, my MM and I are not always as careful as we should be. Some things are inevitable like coming home late whenever he's out because it's so hard for him to get away from home. Other things are insane like letting me stay overnight if his W and kids aren't there. But I know for a fact that he definitely doesn't want to get caught. Neither do I want him to. After about 2 years, his W has started questioning him though and the more time goes by the more it seems she raising suspicion. It makes me wonder how long can we pull this off. I mean the BS has to eventually notice a change in the W/H because the dynamics of the M has changed - there are now three people instead of two. But a H not wearing his wedding ring, I don't see how a wife couldn't immediately notice that eapecially coupled with everything else you have described. Either she doesn't care or she's the most trusting person in the world. Maybe she's as unhappy as him and doesn't wear her wedding ring either. You should ask him how does his W feel about their M. I must say I disagree that you are actively avoiding d-day because you are actively allowing this already EA (maybe PA by now) to happen. It seems obvious he would like it to progress. Since you make your own decisions the question is do you want it to or not. Regardless, you need to be honest with yourself and him and decide where do you want this to go.
NowhereToHide Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 From what you say, OP, I would tend to think she either knows or suspects something. You are in a very hard situation. You are involved with somebody at work, the worst affair you can have. Regardless of what some posters say mainly lying to soothe their own egos), affairs are usually discovered at some point. You have few choices, you can break contact, but that would probably cost you your job, or you could continue on as you are now, and help him ruin his family. I don't envy you, your choices. Yeah... that's helpful.
NowhereToHide Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 If I had wanted to hash this out with a clearly very hurt BS, I would have posted in the Infidelity forum. I've lived my life as you have yours...until last year. It's dangerously easy to develop a "holier than thou" attitude, believing life IS black and white. My experience, my pain has NOTHING to do with why I am in my current situation, and I find your statement rather offensive. As a matter of fact, it seems YOU are trying to pass YOUR pain on to ME. Pot, I am pleased to meet you. Blinders come in many forms. Shades... don't take it personally. There was just an entire thread about what is considered support on this forum which is for the OW/OM. It's unfortunate that so many BS's with agendas come on here -- but keep in mind, I've gotten a ton of great advice from some BS's. You just need to get through the 'preaching' from some to find the posters with the insights and who want to help. You are definitely in a tough position. I think there's always the question that you need to ask yourself which is how much are you willing to lose in all of this if it is discovered? You are already in deep with emotions which is going to be incredibly painful to deal with, and then there's your job. Are you emotionally in a position where you feel you can end it? You say that you don't want your affair to be discovered by the W, but then will this go on indefinitely? And is that what you want? Where's your head with all of this?
NowhereToHide Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 No pain here. Just saying what I see. There is nothing holier about my life, than yours. I am human, bad choices are a part of living. Intentional bad choices are something that I try to refrain from. If you find my post offensive...you are in good company here.:DIt is normal for me. I'm good with it. As far a passing pain, as I said before, I am not that generous. It's sad that you derive such pleasure from this. You're happy that most of your posts are considered offensive? This person is asking for help for God's sake.
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