Do you follow up after a date with an email?

[ReturnToSender]

Im sorry to hear what happened...this guy sounds like a bonafide donkeyhole if you know what I mean. Id say...better you find that out *now* instead of down the line...who knows how many other hook ups hes got from the site, just for the sake of he knows he can get it...but with no intention of it going further than that...you know?

 

I have to say too...a huge difference between that guy I slept with on the 2nd date and my bf...I *really* liked my bf...from the get go. The sexual tension was huge, but my desire to actually get to know him was bigger. And holding off forced him to get to know me...and before he know it, it wasnt about how fast he could get me into bed, but when he could see me again.

 

With the other guy...even though he was a great guy and there was a lot to like about him, after I had him....I left the ball in his court, he didnt pick it up and I moved on. I think *that* is what bothered him most of all..I think it was a bruise to his ego that we had sex, and instead of stroking his ego with "why havnt you called?" I moved on. If I had, he wouldnt still be pining for me after all these years. I mean seriously..it was only 2 dates..whats there to pine for at this point?! LoL

 

Id definitely say, if you really are interested in a guy, make sure his interest is in you, not in getting in you. Now, thats not to say it wouldnt work if youre intimiate with a guy right away....theres no one formula that works for everyone. But it definitely helps in getting to know what his intentions really are before you get emotionally involved. If a guy is really interested...hes willing to wait...

 

And....I do find it disrespectful if a guy is really heavy on the sexual advances and innuendos....every conversation leads to something about sex..forget it. Huge turn off...even if Im planning to have a guy for dessert...if hes laying it on like its what he expects, I cant stand it and Ill pass. I figure, his mind is only in one place...and theres more to me and being with me than that. And that coming from a girl who is a self proclaimed hardcore nympho..LoL!

[Star Gazer]

Hold your horses, WriterGal.

 

I can't believe all this happened (drama, if you will) over some miscommunication/misunderstanding in regards to dating this man. First of all, I think you're overly analyzing this situation; working too hard for something that should be simple and natural. This is dating, not a run through a maze.

 

Two things: The fact that you told him (a) How he disrespected your boundaries, and shouldn't have welcomed himself into your apartment and (b) The frequent match dot com profile checks but no e-mail write-ups for you. A and B are bad moves, in my opinion.

 

You shouldn't have brought up those issues to him, at all. Rather, I think you shot yourself in the foot. No offense to you, I understand you have good intentions, but the confrontation with him brought upon these two ideas to mind.

 

(1) What happened in your apartment, that was all said and done. Let it go. It was a split decision on both your parts, and unfortunately, he doesn't have to compensate for his behavior that night by lavishly pouring out chivalry and romantic feelings towards you to make up for him crossing the line.

 

(2) The fact that you mentioned his profile views, only makes you look like a desperate stalker. Again, I have nothing against you, I am simply stating the way I see it. The man can view his own profile, and the profiles of other women. That's okay. He's not committing murder. However, you addressing this issue only makes him think/realize that perhaps you are not to be trusted.

 

All in all, I understand the frustrations of dating, especially this situation. But, I think you should've gone along with the flow. Given him some air and space to breathe. If he stops arranging dates with you, then so be it his loss. But he didn't stop. Instead, he continued to make arrangements to date you and get to know you better.

 

You don't know what he's thinking or what he's thought of you, so far. Have you asked him what he thinks of you, instead of focusing on the negatives?

 

If this is all too messy, and too much for you, then date other men.

 

Bottom line, if he's compatible and there are fire works, then keep him. Otherwise, don't waste your time on something that you think there is no long term future.

 

I'd say give him a chance on Monday. Don't freak out as much. Let him express himself to you, and relax. The more you focus on his faults, and flaws, the more damage you may inflict on the relationship/situation.

 

Great post... I agree completely.

[writergal]

Dollwelch, First of all, he did disrespect my boundaries by being Mr. Grabby on the 1st date. Any man who respects a woman, is not going to try to grope her on the 1st date. Instead, he's going to do his best to mind his manners and at the most, offer a hug, or kiss (with little tongue unless its mutual).

 

And I don't know why you think I'm wrong to stand up for myself. I told him after the 1st date, I thought it was wrong for us to get that physical that fast because I felt like he didn't respect me, and was worried he would judge me and compare me to any other women he may be dating at the same time as me. I had every right to share my concerns with him, because at the time I wasn't sure seeing him again was a good idea.

 

Well, we talked on the phone briefly after the 1st date and he said he would not be so focused on getting physical with me and that our 2nd date would be more inocuous, b/c he said he liked me a lot. But, on the 2nd date, after a glass of wine and a stroll, yes, I invited him back to my apt. b/c I wanted him to kiss me. But I didn't invite him back so that we would have sex.

 

And by the way, I'm not responsible for his actions. He was just along for the ride if he's going to blame me for giving him mixed signals. Yes, I invited him back to my apt. but he can choose to decline and go home, or he can choose to go inside, and still choose not to get overly physical with me. HE CHOSE to go inside my apt., and I made it clear to him that we were not going to have sex, because I told him that. I said we should just take it slow. But things got carried away which I regret immediately, and lost respect for myself, and for him because that was his 2nd chance to take some responsibility, and not put the onus for the date's boundaries just on me.

 

Why am I supposed to be held 100% responsible for his actions? He's just as responsible as I am, and his intentions were not the same as mine on either the 1st or 2nd date.

 

Clues of his disinterest was due to his dishonesty, which I overlooked because I didn't want to make a big deal of it. Which was stupid of me. Take the lack of emails and phone calls after our initial communication on match.com. At first after he contacted me via email on match, he flooded my inbox with long emails, which stopped once he gave me his phone #. Then we had our first phone conversation, and I had to wait for 3 days before I heard from him again: when called me on a Saturday, asking me to get together THAT same day. That's another bad sign, because there was no forethought for the date on his part. Plus he lied to me about where he was when he called me. He said he was downtown, but moments before he'd called, I was on match.com rereading his emails, and saw that he was online at the same time, on his profile. Then he called me and had logged off. And I never confronted him about lying to me about being on his profile when he told me he was downtown. I live downtown. It took him 15 minutes to get to my apt. on our first date, when he told me he had been parked around the corner near the coffee shop on my block. I live around the corner of the coffee shop. It took me 5 minutes to walk to the coffee shop. He was not parked around the corner. I waited 10 minutes for him to show up.

 

In between date #1 and date #2 (Saturday to Wednesday) there were no phone calls or emails like when he initially contacted me on match.com. The times he did call me, were 2 return calls to messages I left, asking him to call me. When I wrote him 3 emails, he only responded to one, and that was this morning to tell me he looked forward to hanging out with me next week. But again, we don't have set plans for next week which is a bad sign. So, that is another reason I feel I'm being duped by him. In person, on both dates, he came on hot and heavy, smothering me with charming words, being physically affectionate, and his sexual advances. But in between those 2 dates, there was no follow up communication from him, at all. In my dating experience, men I've been on dates with have ALWAYS followed up in between dates, whether its sending me quick emails to say hi, or to thank me for a great date, or to forward info. about an upcoming event he'd like to take me to. NONE of that happened with this guy in between these 2 dates.

 

And take this morning. I texted him early in the morning. He claimed he was typing his response to my email. Then he told me on the phone that he still wanted to see me on Monday, asked me not to freak out about getting physical so quickly. So, I waited for his email response that he said he was typing. Do you know what I got? A one sentence email, telling me "I look forward to hanging out with you on Monday. More to follow later today..." I waited all afternoon, and got nothing. So I sent him an email, thanking him for the phone call this morning, then I even apologized to him for my overreaction to his initiating the hot and heavy physical stuff in my apt. on both dates. I added that clearly it was my issue, and not his, and hoped we could move forward and not let this get in the way of getting to know each other better. I assumed he would at least text or email me a response from him, acknowledging my feelings at least. But again, I never got another email from him, or phone call or even a text.

 

I suspect Monday is going to come and go, without any word from him. If that is the case, I have his work address and plan to mail his t-shirt back to him. I'm not going to throw it away or mess with it, because that's just petty.

 

I'm disappointed in myself for my overreaction. But I'm more disappointed in him for putting the moves on me, then telling me he doesn't know me well enough yet to know if he wants to pursue things with me. This just irritated me! Its like he's justifying his boorish behavior to put the moves on me, see me half naked, then tell me he doesn't know what he wants from me yet.

 

And you are going to accuse me of shooting myself in the foot, Dollwelch? That is hardly the case here. If anything, I was perfectly in the right, to tell him after the 1st date that I didn't think we should see each other again, because i felt uncomfortable with how sexually aggressive he'd been with me that night. Then he promised to be more respectful on the 2nd date and wasn't, and its all my fault according to you Dollwelch, which is not true at all. I take responsibility for my actions; giving him access to my apt. (which was stupid to do on a 1st and 2nd date before I know if I can trust him or not), getting physical with him too soon, and having unrealistically high expectations too soon, because of my last relationship. But I refuse to take responsibility for his actions.

[loveslife]

Wow, you sure get angry with people for trying to help you.

[writergal]

Loveslife,

 

I'm not angry at anyone who posts their opinion in support of helping me with the problems I post about here.

 

But if I feel someone is attacking me, I will get defensive. So, I'm not angry as much as frustrated that no one can see my side of this situation. I'm not posting so that everyone will agree with me.

 

I tried to explain the situation as best as possible, to get feedback. And I expect people will call me out on mistakes I make, or misperceptions that I have.

 

But when I feel like I'm being attacked, I will defend myself because I do take what people post, very personally. Otherwise, I wouldn't come here seeking support and advice.

 

I am sorry if I come across myopic and angry. That's not who I am at all.

 

I'm just a very frustrated woman who feels she's been used by a man she really fell for, and who made some stupid mistakes in the process. And I wish the whole 1st and 2nd dates with him had been different. So, I'm disappointed in myself and the outcome. And it wasn't my intention to take it out on you or anyone else. So if I come across that way, I'm sorry.

[D-Lish]

I disagree. I don't think its unrealistic to have expectations after just 2 dates.

 

Seriously? That's a little scary!

 

Is there a timeline for expectations and investment when you're dating someone? If so, what is your timeline then? What is realistic for you Loveslife?

 

There doesn't have to be a timeline, but it's extreme to think you can figure out exclusivity on the second date. I take about 3 months to know if I like someone a lot. You just can't possibly know someone very well at all after 2 dates. You just can't, and it isn't rational to expect you can.

 

 

For me, I know after 2 dates if I want to be exclusive with a guy. It doesn't take me long to know whether or not I'm attracted enough to a guy to want to date him exclusively.

 

Okay, but that's about you, right? You may know off the bat, but you can't expect the person you are dating to know. We all have different timelines.

 

If I come across strong, its because that's my personality. If I like you, I let you know. I'm also a very physically affectionate person when I'm attracted to a guy. That doesn't mean I want to marry him off the bat. It means that I'm physically attracted to him and want to get to know him better.

 

That's fine- but, to most guys that will come off as MAJOR pressure!

That line of thinking is intense- so you have to find someone that enjoys the intensity as much as you do.

 

You just can't possibly know someone after 2 dates- if he pushed for physical intimacy, maybe that was his primary agenda. You can't know if that's all he wanted or not.

 

You can't expect anything after 2 dates!

Why do you feel the pressure to jump into things so fast?

[writergal]

I don't know how to use the quotes so I will try to comment on your feedback. r

 

RE: my expectations. To not have any expectations at all, is not realistic. I disagree that its "scary."

 

I do agree that it takes more than a couple of dates to really get to know someone. But that timeline is different for everyone. My parents knew within 3 weeks they were soul-mates and were married for 21 years before he died from cancer. My grandparents were high school sweethearts, who married at 18, and are still alive at 100 (my grandfather) and 97 (my grandmother).

 

I certainly wasn't ready to propose marriage to this guy after 2 dates. Nor was I expecting to be in a relationship with him. But there were little clues about his behavior and his actions in between both dates that nagged at me. And when that happens, I have to pay attention because its a sign that something isn't right.

 

But that's just me. I know after 4 dates if I want to be exclusive. I don't think that is extreme. That's just who I am. If the guy needs longer, that's fine. But if he's not going to be honest about his intentions with me immediately, well then situations like this one happen. And its never pleasant to experience.

 

I do think his primary agenda was to get casual sex. And I called him out on it, and now this is the outcome. Right?

 

You're right D-Lish to ask: Why do I rush into things so fast, with expectations? That is something I'm constantly working on figuring out. I've always been an intense person. I can't change who I am. I guess I'm searching just like everyone else for that one person who will love and accept me for who I am.

 

Each dating experience is a learning opportunity. That's how I need to look at this.

[ReturnToSender]

Writergal... I have the feeling that from your parents and grandparents experience...of falling in love right away and it lasting as it did..that its something you are hoping for and wanting for yourself. Goodness...Id love that..lol!

 

Only thing is...everyone opens up and progresses at a different pace. I cant say it will take me 1 date...or 2...or 10...or 20. Cause it totally depends on the guy in question, how much he opens up to me, how soon, and how secure he makes me feel about the relationship. Theres no one formula that fits every man...or every woman! Put the two together, and theres a fine balance that needs to be kept to make both feel comfortable enough to move forward into a relationship.

 

You are very right..that each dating experience is a learning op...we take from it and move forward. But the sad truth is...when you feel something for someone...all bets are off. The heart is so cruel in that regard...makes the most sane person lose their mind! But thats what friends and family and forums are for...to try and make sense of things when too emotional to do that ourselves.

 

This guy totally isnt worth all of that...the right guy wouldnt have you in knots so early on. This is the time when everything is seemingly perfect and wonderful..the honeymoon phase. This guy has been a struggle for you from the get go...when you have to start laying down the law on date 1, and things are happening that make you doubt and second guess yourself and whether it was the right thing to do...that really isnt a good sign. You had red flags going off on this guy from the moment he arrived late at the coffee shop.

[writergal]

You're absolutely correct in everything you said. He had me in knots from the day we met at the coffee shop to yesterday before he left for town. The fact that I had to tell him to back off with the sexual advances, to the self-doubt I experienced, to his white lie about his location the day of our 1st date, to the lack of emails or phone calls in between both dates that I'm used to when I know there's mutual attraction (and not just a sexual attraction but an emotional attraction).

 

And like you're username, that's what I plan to do with his t-shirt this weekend.

 

Now I just have to think of a clever note to pin to the t-shirt...a real zinger of a one liner about what a cad this guy was with me. Hmmm....

 

Maybe..."You left your t-shirt behind and your common sense which I looked for also, but couldn't find. So I guess you'll have to keep searching for that yourself."

 

What do you think? Should I write that on a note and pin it-to his t-shirt? He's a patent lawyer so I think it would be really funny, since I'll be sending the t-shirt to his law firm. (I googled his work address)

[You'reasian]

Ok. I posted about the "Skipper" I went on a 1st date (and as of last night, a 2nd date). Well, he is definitely interested in women. What do you think?

 

Seeing that you didn't want to hook up with a male - Do you think you're projecting your own desires to be with a woman?

 

A well educated lady friend of mine suggests that people who make presumptions are merely projecting your own desires.

 

So, here I am testing her theory

[writergal]

Really? You're serious?

 

 

Thanks for the comic relief, You'reasian.

[You'reasian]

Really? You're serious?

 

Thanks for the comic relief, You'reasian.

 

What can I say. I like to spice things up from time to time

[carhill]

Sometimes men suck...and I don't mean in a nice way.

 

LOL, owned that

 

That accepted, if your real-life discourse is anything like LS, I will opine you would wear a man out. I'm more engaging than most and you wear me out. Something to think about. As I've said elsewhere, one of my wife's (stbx's) biggest complaints in MC was that I over-analyzed everything and talked it to death. She isn't wrong

[shadowplay]

if my personal experience and all the stories I've read on LS are any indication, he's not interested...

[writergal]

Carhill, If there ever was a competition for Over-analysis, I think I would easily take home a top placing medal. Sometimes I even wear me out. But not always.

 

I don't think this was a case of total over-analysis. There were some red flags, and I came here to post and get feedback, to help me suss out the situation and my feelings about it. Isn't that why people post to forums, to get feedback to help them process information?

 

If a man feels worn out by me its because he's not being straightforward and honest. From the start, the match.com guy wasn't being honest with me. And it showed with his actions, which he contradicted with his words. Men do it all the time in the dating game. Say one thing, do another. When a woman calls a man out for his bad behavior, he blames her rather than take any responsibility.

 

And yes, I love to dissect situations, conversations and such, to get to the bottom of things. Investigative analysis with an over-emphasis. I like detail oriented work, where I have to focus on the minutia to see the bigger picture.

 

I never take things at face value, and if someone's words or actions set off a nagging feeling in my gut, you're right, I will probably wear that person out until I get the truth from them. But I think that's a skill and maybe I need to work on that.

[writergal]

Shadowplay -- exactly. He's not interested in me as a person. Never was. Just wanted to have some fun with me. His lack of response to my emails, etc., shows me he's not invested.

[shadowplay]

 

I never take things at face value, and if someone's words or actions set off a nagging feeling in my gut, you're right, I will probably wear that person out until I get the truth from them. But I think that's a skill and maybe I need to work on that.

 

And I thought I was obsessive! If you're a writer, this tendency may come in handy for your job, but it will turn other people away in your relationships. As someone who suffers from the same problem, I can say that I've turned a lot of men off with my chronic nagging and over-analysis.

 

My last boyfriend wasn't very honest or communicative. For example, when it was obvious by his demeanor he was angry with me and I asked him what was wrong he would always just say "nothing." Or if he was acting distant and I asked him if he was happy in our relationship he would automatically reply "yes." But I could always tell by his tone that he was lying. One of my bad habits was pestering him until I finally got him to admit the truth. While my nagging may have been justified given his dishonesty, it was destructive and emotionally draining for both of us. It also betrayed my insecurity.

 

In the end nagging is a waste of time. I knew the answer in my gut before he finally admitted to it. So why did I need him to actually confirm it? Maybe it was my way of exorcizing an obsessive thought by destroying any tiny shred of doubt that existed. Also I got the satisfaction of proving to him that he was being dishonest with me.

 

I should have just accepted the feeling in my gut as truth. Most people show their feelings through actions. You don't need a memo.

[loveslife]

I'm just a very frustrated woman who feels she's been used by a man she really fell for, and who made some stupid mistakes in the process. And I wish the whole 1st and 2nd dates with him had been different. So, I'm disappointed in myself and the outcome. And it wasn't my intention to take it out on you or anyone else. So if I come across that way, I'm sorry.

 

Writergal, I think you're probably a very passionate and caring person. You've gotten some good responses here. I hope you will step back and really consider them.

 

As someone who had a real anger problem in her younger years, I can tell you that it is really helpful to learn to handle disappointment. Not for anyone else, but for your own sake.

 

The type of reactions you have are far more destructive than constructive for building relationsip. Just something to consider, whether you are right or wrong is not the issue. How you communicate is.

 

Good luck.

[ReturnToSender]

I woudlnt send him back the tshirt... he shouldnt have left it behind. Hah! Honestly, I wouldnt make any contact with the guy at all again...wouldnt give him the satisfaction of feeling that the shirt is an excuse to make contact. Really, nothing you say or no note you send is going to tug at him in any way...except to stroke his ego.

 

If the shirt really does mean anything to him, he'll contact you asking if he can have it back. Id give it a week...and then it would be in nice little squares as dusting cloths.

[writergal]

Do I really come across as this super angry person, who is not willing to listen to anyone else's opinion? That's *so* not who I am. But if I come across that way, I'm definitely sorry.

 

I am a very passionate person and I do tend to talk things to death, rather than be easy going when I feel anxious or upset about something.

 

If this match.com never calls me again after this weekend, I can chalk it up to a combination of things posted about throughout this thread. The biggest one being that I doubted myself from the beginning, and didn't put up clear boundaries with him from the start. I would:

 

1. Not let the date go on for 10 hours

2. Not invited him back to my apartment where he could change clothes on the 1st date

3. End the date after 2 or 3 hours

4. Be more easy going after the date ended

5. Lower my expectations

6. Not react so quickly out of anxiety or self doubt

7. Not be attached to an outcome so quickly

8. Let things unfold naturally

9. Continue to assert myself like I did, but be less intense about it

10. Expect to be shown and treated with respect; have self guidelines of what I will/won't put up with to screen out potential bad boys.

 

I don't want to keep his t-shirt, ReturnToSender. If I don't mail it back to him (which you're right, would feed his ego), then I will just toss it into the trash bin. So, I will keep it this weekend. I don't think he'll contact me on Monday. I scared the guy away with my intense behavior about how 2 dates went because I expected different behavior from him, and wanted a different outcome. That's not very rational of me. And not fair to him, even if he just wanted casual sex from me, which is what my nagging gut was telling me from the start.

 

If I can be more clear with boundaries with a guy on the 1st date, hopefully this won't happen again.

[loveslife]

If I can be more clear with boundaries with a guy on the 1st date, hopefully this won't happen again.

 

Bingo! And boundaries with yourself, too.

 

Maybe take some time to youself, a break from dating. It can do worlds of good.

 

I think you're a good-hearted person who just needs to take a few deep breaths and figure out a thing or two. We all need to do that now and then.

[ReturnToSender]

Im totally down with your list except #5. Dont lower your expectations..or its all downhill from there! The thing to keep in mind is the only person you can expect anything out of is yourself, and know what you do or dont want. If the guy isnt in step with that...then he can go on with himself and youll find the guy who *is* up to your expectations..simply because he is.

 

And that kind of goes with your last sentence too... you really shouldnt have to be clear about stuff and "lay down the law" as I like to put it. Either he is a respectful guy who will make you feel comfortable...or he isnt. Let him be who he is...better early on than down the road when you find he was only being good cause its what he knew would get him far with you (and not necessarily in a good sense)

 

if you have to be clear with a guy that he need to be respectful of your boundaries then hes really not such a great guy. Trust me..a man knows how to treat a woman when hes genuinely interested. He'll be too afraid of messing up and want too much to see her again to be crass and disrespectful or push up against her boundaries.

 

When I first started dating my bf, he "innocently" kept asking me if Id like to come up to his place after every date (for a drink, to see the view, to watch a movie..hah!). I knew what he was up to...hey guys are going to test the waters, but I didnt haev to be clear with anything...he let it go, and throughout our dates there was no sexual talk or innuendos or anything...just at the end of the night hed make his offer to come up. Later he told me, that when he finally had me right there on my couch, he was afraid to mess things up and see me leave, he realized he really wanted to see me again...sex or no sex.

 

I was totally kidding about using the shirt as a dusting cloth...I use swifters..LOL! Yeah, the trashbin it would be with that thing. Heck, when Im got mad at my bf I nearly threw away everthing he gave me and left behind at my place...no recycling in mind! Im glad I didnt but..yannow..the urge was there

[aerogurl87]

My last boyfriend was very different. He texted and called me often, after dates. Granted, he and I only waited a few weeks before we slept together, but by that time, he had been very open about his feelings for me, texting and emailing me practically every day. So I got used to that attention and expect the same from men I want to get involved with now. If you like me, let me know.

 

So, why can't he take the ball and send me a quick email today before he goes out of town?

 

 

This is exactly how I feel. My last boyfriend called and texted me pretty much nonstop during the whole time we were together, so I kind of got used to it. Hence why now I only date guys who are on the same level of communicating constantly as he was. It's nice to know your wanted.

[Trialbyfire]

Bingo! And boundaries with yourself, too.

 

Maybe take some time to youself, a break from dating. It can do worlds of good.

 

I think you're a good-hearted person who just needs to take a few deep breaths and figure out a thing or two. We all need to do that now and then.

Yup, clear boundaries. Too much uncertainty, with mixed messages and you're asking to take it up the wazoo, when someone doesn't want to play the same games you're playing, even though you weren't trying to play a game. He can't read your mind.

 

Relax writergal. Less than 5 days ago, you were wondering about his sexual orientation, wasn't attracted and was deciding on whether to accept a second date. Now you're acting like you're already in a long-term relationship, with expectations, when you've only dated twice.

 

Take a good look at what's really bothering you. It's less to do with investment and more to do with ego, pride and hurt self-esteem. When you do this, creating a mountain out of a molehill, by ascribing intense meanings to small actions, of a man you barely, barely know, how good is this for you, as a person?

[loveslife]

you really shouldnt have to be clear about stuff and "lay down the law" as I like to put it. Either he is a respectful guy who will make you feel comfortable...or he isnt.

 

if you have to be clear with a guy that he need to be respectful of your boundaries then hes really not such a great guy.

 

 

Yes! I was trying to say just that!!