It's easy to spot abusive men?

[loveslife]

I agree with this.

 

That being said, it's not exactly easy for people to get out of those situations once they're already in them.

 

Yes, I agree. Which is why it is important to pay attention to warning signs at the beginning and not just take a wait and see attitude.

[Quest]

I think blame shifting is one of their primary weapons and controlling devices. It's part of keeping you in your place.

 

What I've learned is to recognize that muddled feeling and detach myself as quickly as possible. It is hard because they know just how to tie up your emotions. But the short term pain is nothing compared to long term abuse.

 

This summer I finally got myself out of a long-term on and off relationship with an emotionally abusive person. It was excruciating mentally and emotionally for a few weeks and on and off now (altho less so) but I also know that I am finally free.

 

... ditto. I extricated myself from an emotionally abusive situation a few months ago and had the same sort of turmoil. But like you I had learned to listen to the muddled feeling and decided to get out while I could still recognise it for what it was. Key was a situation in which the ex blamed me for 'ruining our love' when I objected to some inappropriate behaviour on his part. He actually began to cry at one point!

 

There had been no hint at all of this behaviour for the first few months, it only cropped up when I asked for a few things on my terms and stood up for myself. As other posters have said, control is a major issue for an abuser ... they can't 'relate' unless they have a doormat to walk all over.

[loveslife]

... ditto. I extricated myself from an emotionally abusive situation a few months ago and had the same sort of turmoil. But like you I had learned to listen to the muddled feeling and decided to get out while I could still recognise it for what it was. Key was a situation in which the ex blamed me for 'ruining our love' when I objected to some inappropriate behaviour on his part. He actually began to cry at one point!

 

There had been no hint at all of this behaviour for the first few months, it only cropped up when I asked for a few things on my terms and stood up for myself. As other posters have said, control is a major issue for an abuser ... they can't 'relate' unless they have a doormat to walk all over.

 

Good for you. The turning point came in my relationship because I had become so much stronger in my sense of self and was able to recognize the pattern I was in with him. And when I put an end to the pattern it caused him to react in a horribly cruel manner.

 

I had come to understand myself better and that's when I could see his techniques.

 

I agree that they need someone to constantly wipe their feet on.

 

The point when I knew I would be okay was when a friend said to me, I know you can't see this now, but from the outside this is a GOOD thing. And thing was I did know it was a good thing.

[Quest]

when I put an end to the pattern it caused him to react in a horribly cruel manner.

QUOTE]

 

This is very telling, I think. Abusers do not like to be challenged and, if they are, that's when the charm disappears and the cruelty reveals itself. Ideally, once you've been at the sharp end of an abusive relationship you can spot the tendency of the abuser turn a little nasty when things don't go his (or her) way before you get too involved.

 

As you say, good self esteem helps too. And your self esteem is only improved further when you protect yourself from abusive situations.

[Trialbyfire]

At the risk of being banned for 15 days by going off-topic...

 

As a suggestion, perhaps people need to define where abuse begins. Do they see abuse solely in physical abuse or is abuse including emotional or verbal abuse? Also, where does honesty and directness end and emotional/verbal abuse begin?

 

Anyways, with this kind of clarification, it will help others understand the perspective that your responding from.

 

As for myself, it's all abuse, as in physical, emotional and verbal. Also, I need honesty and directness in a partner, as well as a partner who can take it. This means that there will be components of both positive and negative honesty and directness. But when a partner is consistently and deliberately critical and negative, they are being abusive. I also see passive-aggressiveness between partners, as abuse, reliant on how often it's implemented.

 

With all this in mind, it's not easy to spot an abusive partner, although non-supportiveness through competitiveness, whereby the partner is seen solely from the perspective of "I can do that better than you can" or "what you've done is no big deal, since I can do better", when they should be celebrating your successes, is a major red flag.

 

The need to control stems from insecurity. Abuse stems from control issues.

[loveslife]

when I put an end to the pattern it caused him to react in a horribly cruel manner.

QUOTE]

 

This is very telling, I think. Abusers do not like to be challenged and, if they are, that's when the charm disappears and the cruelty reveals itself. Ideally, once you've been at the sharp end of an abusive relationship you can spot the tendency of the abuser turn a little nasty when things don't go his (or her) way before you get too involved.

 

As you say, good self esteem helps too. And your self esteem is only improved further when you protect yourself from abusive situations.

 

Exactly. I ended up feeling very much empowered by this whole thing. To stand up and say, I'm done, gave me back something I had lost.

 

Abusive men know how to pinpoint a woman's weakness(es) and prey on that. They are very often the one who seemingly cares more than other guys have, or treats the girl "better" than other guys have.

 

It's a real rush when you're feeling down to have a guy seem to be the answer to your dreams. But, really, it just turns into a nightmare.

 

I think this is a big reason why people need to focus on developing their sense of self and self-respect. Because then you're not vulnerable to needing someone else to validate you - and they have to earn your love, not the other way around.

[loveslife]

At the risk of being banned for 15 days by going off-topic...

 

As a suggestion, perhaps people need to define where abuse begins. Do they see abuse solely in physical abuse or is abuse including emotional or verbal abuse? Also, where does honesty and directness end and emotional/verbal abuse begin?

 

Anyways, with this kind of clarification, it will help others understand the perspective that your responding from.

 

As for myself, it's all abuse, as in physical, emotional and verbal. Also, I need honesty and directness in a partner, as well as a partner who can take it. This means that there will be components of both positive and negative honesty and directness. But when a partner is consistently and deliberately critical and negative, they are being abusive. I also see passive-aggressiveness between partners, as abuse, reliant on how often it's implemented.

 

With all this in mind, it's not easy to spot an abusive partner, although non-supportiveness through competitiveness, whereby the partner is seen solely from the perspective of "I can do that better than you can" or "what you've done is no big deal, since I can do better", when they should be celebrating your successes, is a major red flag.

 

The need to control stems from insecurity. Abuse stems from control issues.

 

TBF, I think most abusers are very damaged people. One of the things that help me break out of abusive relationships is that recognition. It kind of takes away their power to see them as broken instead of so powerful over us.

 

I think that there are many forms of abuse including emotional and physical. The abusive relationship I was discussing was emotionally abusive. And trust me, the scars can be really bad.

 

In terms of honesty, my observation with abusive people is that they use the truth as a weapon.

 

For me, I have no interest in relationships where people are exchanging barbs or putting each other down or debating issues constantly. I can take honesty, it's the cruelty and putting someone in their place I have no use for.

[Quest]

As a suggestion, perhaps people need to define where abuse begins. Do they see abuse solely in physical abuse or is abuse including emotional or verbal abuse? Also, where does honesty and directness end and emotional/verbal abuse begin?

 

Abuse can be physical, emotional or verbal, IMO. Emotional and verbal are often one and the same thing. Physical abuse is fairly easily defined. I'd define emotional abuse as manipulating another person's emotions through a variety of 'techniques' including blame shifting, inciting jealousy, arousing suspicion, keeping secrets and a few other things. Basically, an emotional abuser has to manipulate their 'partner' to maintain control ... they don't know how to have an equal relationship. And, as has been pointed out, they have to be in control because they are so insecure. Master emotional manipulators will even manage to make their 'prey' believe things like it was their fault they (the abuser) slept with the SO's best friend ...

[RedDevil66]

want to know if a man is abusive, sit in traffic with him. If he chases people, cuts them off and gives them the finger, you have your answer.

[loveslife]

 

Abuse can be physical, emotional or verbal, IMO. Emotional and verbal are often one and the same thing. Physical abuse is fairly easily defined. I'd define emotional abuse as manipulating another person's emotions through a variety of 'techniques' including blame shifting, inciting jealousy, arousing suspicion, keeping secrets and a few other things. Basically, an emotional abuser has to manipulate their 'partner' to maintain control ... they don't know how to have an equal relationship. And, as has been pointed out, they have to be in control because they are so insecure. Master emotional manipulators will even manage to make their 'prey' believe things like it was their fault they (the abuser) slept with the SO's best friend ...

 

I agree. Good definition.

[GorillaTheater]

want to know if a man is abusive, sit in traffic with him. If he chases people, cuts them off and gives them the finger, you have your answer.

 

Uh oh .....

[MissJoness]

Yes, it can be easy to spot

 

I had a friend who was abusive. He started

 

*comparing me to celebrity women. telling me things i should do to have a body like beyonce

*destroyed my confidence. if i said something good about myself, he would knock me down and say that there were other women out there that had better bodies than me

*made fun of my body by saying i was too thin or my butt wasn't big enough

*started telling me i was old when i got into my mid 20s and that there were younger girls out there who were getting all the men

[Quest]

TBF, I think most abusers are very damaged people. One of the things that help me break out of abusive relationships is that recognition. It kind of takes away their power to see them as broken instead of so powerful over us.

 

I think that there are many forms of abuse including emotional and physical. The abusive relationship I was discussing was emotionally abusive. And trust me, the scars can be really bad.

 

In terms of honesty, my observation with abusive people is that they use the truth as a weapon.

 

For me, I have no interest in relationships where people are exchanging barbs or putting each other down or debating issues constantly. I can take honesty, it's the cruelty and putting someone in their place I have no use for.

 

Agreed. Abusers definitely are damaged. Why else would they be so incapable of relating in a healthy, adult fashion? And it does help to see that if you've ever got yourself involved with one, and to keep reminding yourself of that fact. Otherwise you'll end up thinking you are the one with the problem - which is the abuser's control taking its effect.

 

People are often 'amazed' that women go back to their violent partners, time and time again but it's all part of the cycle of control. The longer you stay in the situation the more you'll think you deserve no better, that it's your 'fault', and the more abuse you'll suffer.

[Trialbyfire]

Yes, it can be easy to spot

 

I had a friend who was abusive. He started

 

*comparing me to celebrity women. telling me things i should do to have a body like beyonce

*destroyed my confidence. if i said something good about myself, he would knock me down and say that there were other women out there that had better bodies than me

*made fun of my body by saying i was too thin or my butt wasn't big enough

*started telling me i was old when i got into my mid 20s and that there were younger girls out there who were getting all the men

This is the newest form of abuse, from the PUA community. You need to read up on Mystery and something called "negging". But most definitely, it's abusive behaviour.

[MissJoness]

This is the newest form of abuse, from the PUA community. You need to read up on Mystery and something called "negging". But most definitely, it's abusive behaviour.

 

Can you go into detail about this? "negging"? what is that?

 

The guy who was doing this was fat and older than me, that's what made it so bad.

[loveslife]

Agreed. Abusers definitely are damaged. Why else would they be so incapable of relating in a healthy, adult fashion? And it does help to see that if you've ever got yourself involved with one, and to keep reminding yourself of that fact. Otherwise you'll end up thinking you are the one with the problem - which is the abuser's control taking its effect.

 

People are often 'amazed' that women go back to their violent partners, time and time again but it's all part of the cycle of control. The longer you stay in the situation the more you'll think you deserve no better, that it's your 'fault', and the more abuse you'll suffer.

 

It seriously does get more damaging over time. You don't get used to it or develop a thick skin to abuse.

 

In answer to the OP, I think it's not so much spotting an abusive man as being strong and healthy within yourself. And when you are you simply cannot co-exist in a relationship with a damaged person.

 

And it doesn't matter how "street smart" someone may seem on the outside. They can still be broken inside and that's the part that bonds with an abusive partner.

[angie2443]

After all, nobody gets into a relationship figuring that their partner is abusive/sexlesss/whatever, right? If the "gut" and "instinct" was correct, then ending up with a jerk is a situation which just wouldn't happen.

.

 

Relationships are rarely abusive/sexless/whatever in the beginning. They evolve that way for various reasons. Taking this into consideration, it is easier to understand why the "gut" doesn't pick up anything. In the beginning, there is often nothing to pick up.

 

As far as abuse, I've noticed that men/women who like to control are the ones who are more likely to be abusive. It makes sense. Name calling, yelling at someone, etc., are ways to control. The tricky thing is that people don't start out trying to control someone on the first date. This stuff creeps in bit by bit as long as the other person has weak personal bounderies and lets themselves be pushed around.

[Thaddeus]

Can you go into detail about this? "negging"? what is that?

A"neg" or "neg-hit" is a short supposedly-humorous jibe intended to take a PUA's 'target' down a peg or two. Since most attractive women are constantly being told how hot they are and all the rest, a PUA will offer up a "neg" as a way of making himself a little different and edgier than the rest of the guys.

 

A "neg" is not an insult. For instance, "Gawd, you're fat/skinny/tall/short/whatever" isn't a neg, that's just an insult. A "neg" would be "Hey, I like your outfit. My mother/great aunt/other old person has one just like it" or "You get this little crinkly nose when you laugh."

 

See the difference?

 

What that man did, MissJoness, was not "negging," it was just an insult.

[Quest]

 

In answer to the OP, I think it's not so much spotting an abusive man as being strong and healthy within yourself. And when you are you simply cannot co-exist in a relationship with a damaged person.

 

Agreed. It just all seems so nuts when you're a healthy, strong person.

[loveslife]

Agreed. It just all seems so nuts when you're a healthy, strong person.

 

Exactly!

[Trialbyfire]

Agreed. It just all seems so nuts when you're a healthy, strong person.

If you consider how someone gets roped into a long-term abusive relationship, it might be a combination or any of the following:

1. The man or woman is incredibly charming at the beginning of the relationship, to hook in the other person. Then the erosion of self-esteem and isolation begins and continues.
   
2. The person being hooked has low self-esteem.
   
3. The person being hooked has a comfort level with abuse, due to foundational years of believing that abuse is love.
   

Reliant on the level of abuse being implemented, sometimes it escalates to physical violence, other times it remains within the realms of verbal and/or emotional abuse.

 

If a person has strong boundaries, they won't put up with it for long, running away since self-protection mechanisms kicks in. If the person doesn't have strong boundaries, they will rationalize the pain to pleasure ratio and continue putting up with it for an extended length of time.

[loveslife]

If you consider how someone gets roped into a long-term abusive relationship, it might be a combination or any of the following:

1. The man or woman is incredibly charming at the beginning of the relationship, to hook in the other person. Then the erosion of self-esteem and isolation begins and continues.
   
2. The person being hooked has low self-esteem.
   
3. The person being hooked has a comfort level with abuse, due to foundational years of believing that abuse is love.
   

Reliant on the level of abuse being implemented, sometimes it escalates to physical violence, other times it remains within the realms of verbal and/or emotional abuse.

 

If a person has strong boundaries, they won't put up with it for long, running away since self-protection mechanisms kicks in. If the person doesn't have strong boundaries, they will rationalize the pain to pleasure ratio and continue putting up with it for an extended length of time.

 

Agree. Well put.

[Quest]

If you consider how someone gets roped into a long-term abusive relationship, it might be a combination or any of the following:

1. The man or woman is incredibly charming at the beginning of the relationship, to hook in the other person. Then the erosion of self-esteem and isolation begins and continues.
   
2. The person being hooked has low self-esteem.
   
3. The person being hooked has a comfort level with abuse, due to foundational years of believing that abuse is love.
   

Reliant on the level of abuse being implemented, sometimes it escalates to physical violence, other times it remains within the realms of verbal and/or emotional abuse.

 

If a person has strong boundaries, they won't put up with it for long, running away since self-protection mechanisms kicks in. If the person doesn't have strong boundaries, they will rationalize the pain to pleasure ratio and continue putting up with it for an extended length of time.

 

Yes, that about sums it up. The good news for those who fall into one or more of the categories above is that it's possible to 'recover'. Like an addict, a seriously co-dependent person may eventually hit 'rock bottom' and decide they can't take any more. From there it's a process of gradually understanding their own part in the abusive cycle, building up self esteem and ensuring the pattern never repeats itself again.

[muse08]

Maybe I'm just really in tune with behaviors of men. And maybe that's because my mother was abused by both my father and my stepfather.

 

I know a dangerous control freak when I see one (by see one, I mean spend a little time around them, of course). It's in their language (choice of phrases or words), it's in their eye contact, it's in their method of direction....

 

It's not a gut feeling. It's paying attention to behavior. Wait, that's the basis of a gut feeling.

 

lol. luv the response here b/c it's true...guts don't lie. when i ignore mine, something always happens to put it right in my face so that i have no other choice but to face and admit what my intuition told me before hand.

 

ALEKTRA>can you pls give some examples of certain words and phrases and eye contact scenarios for potentially abusive men? it would be helpful for me...

 

thanks

[Hkizzle]

Can you go into detail about this? "negging"? what is that?

 

The guy who was doing this was fat and older than me, that's what made it so bad.

 

Negging is when a man puts down a woman in a humorus, non offensive way so that he elevates his level and brings down hers.

 

It works best on very attractive women that are used to men throwing themselves at them, and always getting compliments. So if a guy compliments them they just yawn.

 

I disagree with Trialoffire though. I don't think that's abuse, I think it's just a silly move. If a woman's stuck up and needs to be brought down to earth then that woman isn't going to be a good partner in the first place.

 

An equivalent for men, would be busting a guys balls. Where a woman teases a guy without actually hurting his feelings.