Hkizzle Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 One of the posters on the other thread said it's easy to spot abusive men. Sorry but no friggin way. I have a friend who's very street smart, and her and her friends actually introduced an abusive man to one of their female friends. Players are easy to spot, abusive men are one of the hardest because at they are not after sex, but after control, and at the start they are very sweet to the girl. I think many women confuse their disdain for certain types of men, with over confidence in their abilities to spot jerks. If jerks are easy to spot, are women really going to fall for them? No...........
Thaddeus Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 No abusive men/jerks aren't easy to spot. Many, many people (both genders) tend to believe in the myth of "listen to your gut" and "trust your instincts" and all the rest. But anyone who's had any sort of life experience will tell you that your "gut" and your "instincts" are wrong just as often as they're right. After all, nobody gets into a relationship figuring that their partner is abusive/sexlesss/whatever, right? If the "gut" and "instinct" was correct, then ending up with a jerk is a situation which just wouldn't happen. And I don't necessarily agree that players are easy to spot. A good PUA, when he's on his game, is extremely good at coming in under the radar, which is why so many women (especially the ones that insist, "That stuff never works on me!" - they tend to be the first ones to fall for a PUA's tactics) get suckered in.
bluewolf17 Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 1) What does "Street Smart" mean. 2) Of course there are men that can hide things very well. But overall, I DO BELEIVE they are easy to spot. Maybe not right off the bat. but trust me, controlling men, abusive men, they will give you signs. Red Flags if you will. It's up to us (women) to notice those, and not brush them off, and NOT PUT UP WITH THEM. The first time it happens, you put and end to it. You don't make excuses for their behavior. You always have the right to walk away at any moment. If your question is, can you spot them RIGHT AWAY, then no, sometimes you can't. But if you are already in a relationship with them when they reveal their true colors, you have to have the self worth to understand the joy of leaving a bad situation. Before it gets worse.
New Again Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 One of the posters on the other thread said it's easy to spot abusive men. Sorry but no friggin way. I have a friend who's very street smart, and her and her friends actually introduced an abusive man to one of their female friends. Players are easy to spot, abusive men are one of the hardest because at they are not after sex, but after control, and at the start they are very sweet to the girl. I think many women confuse their disdain for certain types of men, with over confidence in their abilities to spot jerks. If jerks are easy to spot, are women really going to fall for them? No........... Thank you.
Author Hkizzle Posted September 17, 2009 Author Posted September 17, 2009 1) What does "Street Smart" mean. She's a realist, she doesn't get caught up in the romantic fantasies that get so many women in trouble. She thinks like a man and understands men, so able to spot a jerk from a mile away.
Sam Spade Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 But anyone who's had any sort of life experience will tell you that your "gut" and your "instincts" are wrong just as often as they're right. . This cannot be overemphasized. I roll my eyes (:rolleyes:) every time I hear "i just know" or "something doesn't feel right" and all tha similar verbiage. Believeing that you indeed know something (for reasons other than logic and data) is delusional precisely because in the cases you're right, it is due to pure chance, plain and simple. But of course people have the tendency for selective observation (i.e. to remember mostly the instances when something "worked"), hence the myth of the "gut feeling" gets perpetuated over and over again (and to an extent to serve as an excuse to not even try to examine feelings and their antecedents.)
Sam Spade Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 2) Of course there are men that can hide things very well. But overall, I DO BELEIVE they are easy to spot. Maybe not right off the bat. but trust me, controlling men, abusive men, they will give you signs. Red Flags if you will. It's up to us (women) to notice those, and not brush them off, and NOT PUT UP WITH THEM. The first time it happens, you put and end to it. You don't make excuses for their behavior. You always have the right to walk away at any moment. Well that's true, but also useless, because the true colors of an abusive person will show up when it is too late. And that's exactly people start making excuses, because the investment in the relationship has become too big.
AlektraClementine Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 On the fence about this. I had a relationship with a man a few years back. After three months of controlling behavior (even the initial kind), I got rid of him. To this day, I still maintain that he would have beaten my a** sooner or later. I think rather than saying that it's easy to spot an abusive man...it's easier to keep your blinders on.
GorillaTheater Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 This cannot be overemphasized. I roll my eyes (:rolleyes:) every time I hear "i just know" or "something doesn't feel right" and all tha similar verbiage. Believeing that you indeed know something (for reasons other than logic and data) is delusional precisely because in the cases you're right, it is due to pure chance, plain and simple. But of course people have the tendency for selective observation (i.e. to remember mostly the instances when something "worked"), hence the myth of the "gut feeling" gets perpetuated over and over again (and to an extent to serve as an excuse to not even try to examine feelings and their antecedents.) I'm in a profession that involves attempting to anticipate what people are going to do and why. I'd have to say that I've found that I rely on what may be called "gut instinct" fairly frequently, but only as a starting point to gather facts to support (or not) that instinct. That said, as time goes by, my instinct seems to be increasingly correct. But maybe it's just the "been there, done that" phenomona.
bluewolf17 Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 . And that's exactly people start making excuses, because the investment in the relationship has become too big. It's very sad.
Sam Spade Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 I'm in a profession that involves attempting to anticipate what people are going to do and why. I'd have to say that I've found that I rely on what may be called "gut instinct" fairly frequently, but only as a starting point to gather facts to support (or not) that instinct. That said, as time goes by, my instinct seems to be increasingly correct. But maybe it's just the "been there, done that" phenomona. Sure, of course, nothing wrong with using 'instinct' to direct your attention to gather and evaluate the approrpiate 'data' etc. It is entirely different thing however to *still* go by gut feeling in spite of all the evidence being inclunclusive or pointing in another direction altogether...
Star Gazer Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 One of the posters on the other thread said it's easy to spot abusive men. Sorry but no friggin way. Are you referring to my comment that after being with someone for 1.5 years, they should have been able to clue in to abusive behavior by then? And not have to wait to move in with them to figure it out? I still stand by that.
Star Gazer Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 I'm in a profession that involves attempting to anticipate what people are going to do and why. I'd have to say that I've found that I rely on what may be called "gut instinct" fairly frequently, but only as a starting point to gather facts to support (or not) that instinct. That said, as time goes by, my instinct seems to be increasingly correct. But maybe it's just the "been there, done that" phenomona. Me too. Sure, of course, nothing wrong with using 'instinct' to direct your attention to gather and evaluate the approrpiate 'data' etc. It is entirely different thing however to *still* go by gut feeling in spite of all the evidence being inclunclusive or pointing in another direction altogether... Well sure, that's why GT said he looks for evidence to support or refute that instinct. After you gather evidence, it's only then that you act accordingly. As for abusive men, they need not actually strike out at you in order for you to have "evidence" that they are, indeed, OR WILL BE, abusive.
Trialbyfire Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 One consistency I've realized, from controlling/abusive men and women, is that they're non-supportive. If you accomplish something or have something, instead of being happy for you, they're competitive about it and either put you down or try to trump you.
loveslife Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 I think there are a lot of clues very early on that someone is (at least) potentially abusive. And it doesn't matter how "street smart" someone is or how fueled their romantic fantasies are. It has to do with being educated in the behavior of abusive people. There are definite patterns. And the older I get the more I do trust my gut instincts. The only time I get in trouble is when I don't. My gut is never wrong. My reasoning is often what's wrong when I try and deny what I know inside.
Sam Spade Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Well sure, that's why GT said he looks for evidence to support or refute that instinct. After you gather evidence, it's only then that you act accordingly. As for abusive men, they need not actually strike out at you in order for you to have "evidence" that they are, indeed, OR WILL BE, abusive. here's a real world example ot going by "gut feeling", that pisses me off: my friend's girlfriend is perpetually upset that he's not reliable, does not provide security, does not take care about the house etc., or so she thinks. Well, this guy 1) makes more money than she'll ever make;2) has one of the most secure jobs that have ever existed (college prof.); 3) has made multiple offers to buy new appliances, alarm system, etc. for her house. 4) in no uncertain terms has made his general commitment to her apparent In the face of all this she still has the "guts" (no pun intended) to say shet like that she "feels" like he's not reliable :mad:. as for abusive men (or women!), the signs ARE difficult to detect. They lie in ways they react to certain things and how they approach certain problems etc. It is difficult to recognize actual red flags versus. understanding that everybody has a bad day every once in a while.
AlektraClementine Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Maybe I'm just really in tune with behaviors of men. And maybe that's because my mother was abused by both my father and my stepfather. I know a dangerous control freak when I see one (by see one, I mean spend a little time around them, of course). It's in their language (choice of phrases or words), it's in their eye contact, it's in their method of direction.... It's not a gut feeling. It's paying attention to behavior. Wait, that's the basis of a gut feeling.
loveslife Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Maybe I'm just really in tune with behaviors of men. And maybe that's because my mother was abused by both my father and my stepfather. I know a dangerous control freak when I see one (by see one, I mean spend a little time around them, of course). It's in their language (choice of phrases or words), it's in their eye contact, it's in their method of direction.... It's not a gut feeling. It's paying attention to behavior. Wait, that's the basis of a gut feeling. For me, I was putting gut feelings and recognizing abusive men as two separate things. Hadn't really thought about the connection. But I have also been around abusive people and you really can recognize them if you're tuned into what it means to be in an abusive relationship. It's a tone of voice, a choice of words, a contradiction, eye contact, mannerism.... and sometimes it just is a feeling. But yeah you really do get to be able to spot them with experience.
Star Gazer Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 here's a real world example ot going by "gut feeling", that pisses me off: my friend's girlfriend is perpetually upset that he's not reliable, does not provide security, does not take care about the house etc., or so she thinks. Well, this guy 1) makes more money than she'll ever make;2) has one of the most secure jobs that have ever existed (college prof.); 3) has made multiple offers to buy new appliances, alarm system, etc. for her house. 4) in no uncertain terms has made his general commitment to her apparent In the face of all this she still has the "guts" (no pun intended) to say shet like that she "feels" like he's not reliable :mad:. YOUR definition of reliability/security may be different than hers. My definition is certainly different from yours. To me, the house is only a small component. It has a lot more to do with keeping one's word, being supportive emotionally, following through with plans/tasks/goals, is responsible, etc. Do you know that he does these things? Because I know TONS of people who make sh*t loads of money, have secure jobs, buy sh*t, and have "committed" to their partner who are STILL these most unreliable people on Earth. as for abusive men (or women!), the signs ARE difficult to detect. They lie in ways they react to certain things and how they approach certain problems etc. It is difficult to recognize actual red flags versus. understanding that everybody has a bad day every once in a while. Lying has very little to do with the tell-tale signs of an abuser. One of the most obvious signs is controlling behavior. An abuser cannot hide that. Nor can they lie about their jealousy, or tendency to get very quickly involved in a relationship (to breed false security in their victim), hypersensitivity, blame shifting, cruelty/rudeness to others... Those are obvious, tell-tale signs. If a woman dates a guy for long enough, and he's an abuser, these signs will appear. There's almost no "gut" involved.
loveslife Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Right, SG, they tend to not assume personal responsibility, everything is someone else's fault. They try and get you to rush into a relationship. There's a lack of respect for boundaries or the other person's desire to have their own life. And especially, they insist on having control. He's the one who decides what you do together, etc. Any of these are signs to run the other way, in my experience.
AlektraClementine Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Some of the signs in my previous boyfriend (the one mentioned before) displayed: -Subtly started opining in a negative way about the people closest in my life (translation: he wanted to be closer to me than anyone else and my friends and family threatened that.) -Had frequent confrontations with coworkers/bosses/family but they were never his fault. -Sexually controlling -Did not want me to do anything without him (I didn't stay long enough for this to become an issue. Subtle commenting was enough) -He once chastised me for not making eye contact with him when I passed through a room. -Would seem to have disproportionate physical reactions to things that angered him. i.e. Sharp movements, clenched fists, look of utter disgust on his face Now - this all happened in a matter of 3 months. Had I stayed, there's no doubt in my mind that he would have become abusive. At the very least, verbally. At worst, physically. All of these signs made my stomach turn and get knotted up. That to me, is the proverbial 'gut feeling'. This guy ain't right.
Quest Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Any of these are signs to run the other way, in my experience. ... in my experience too. The problem is that abusers can muddle your head up with all the blame shifting they do (they are very skilled at it) so that you end up thinking that it WAS you in the wrong after all. The trick is to get out at the first signs of this sort of behaviour before you start getting sucked into their warped world.
caramel c Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Absolutely! You'll know because their right earlobes tend to be bigger than their left ones.
sweetjasmine Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 I think there are a lot of clues very early on that someone is (at least) potentially abusive. And it doesn't matter how "street smart" someone is or how fueled their romantic fantasies are. It has to do with being educated in the behavior of abusive people. There are definite patterns. I agree with this. That being said, it's not exactly easy for people to get out of those situations once they're already in them.
loveslife Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 ... in my experience too. The problem is that abusers can muddle your head up with all the blame shifting they do (they are very skilled at it) so that you end up thinking that it WAS you in the wrong after all. The trick is to get out at the first signs of this sort of behaviour before you start getting sucked into their warped world. Yes, very true. And I think blame shifting is one of their primary weapons and controlling devices. It's part of keeping you in your place. What I've learned is to recognize that muddled feeling and detach myself as quickly as possible. It is hard because they know just how to tie up your emotions. But the short term pain is nothing compared to long term abuse. This summer I finally got myself out of a long-term on and off relationship with an emotionally abusive person. It was excruciating mentally and emotionally for a few weeks and on and off now (altho less so) but I also know that I am finally free.
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