EarthGirl Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Women are naturally more sensitive so it's very easy to do. It's juvenile but resisting it is along the same lines as resisting the urge to poke a visible bruise. I KNEW it! All guys are a$sholes and the reason they beat up on women is because they think we are the walking wounded from the day we're born and that's what we are THERE FOR! don't tell me this isn't a little true. what they don't realize is if women poked THEIR bruises as often and as hard as they poke ours they would be nothing but a big walking bruise too...sore and uncomfortable all the time.
sweetjasmine Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Correct. I do not equate good natured teasing to torturing an animal in a cage. That would be quite the melodramatic stance, imo. An example of teasing: when my GF asks why I haven't shaved today, I tell her its because I'm growing a beard. That is sure to send her blood pressure up. I will concede however that if she turns to me and says do not **** with me right now that I will re-thing what I'm doing/saying. But then that goes to my larger point that there is not a fine line between teasing and abuse. It's a huge, bright red line and anyone with any sense knows when it's being crossed. There's a difference between good-natured teasing and getting someone angry on purpose. Yours is an example of teasing.
Die Hard Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 There's a difference between good-natured teasing and getting someone angry on purpose. Yours is an example of teasing. Well why don't you give me an example of abuse, especially as it pertains to the orignal comment that got this thread started in the first place. I would consider calling my GF fat as abuse. However, I do not see how that is relevant to the original comment by gorrilla. And again, there is a big bright red line between that comment and the one regarding my facial hair. I REALLY want to hear a comment that blurs the line between teasing and abusing one's GF.
EarthGirl Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Paragon, you're a sick bastard who knows nothing about real love...also you are obviously not a women so how would you know what women like to feel regarding emotions? you are TELLING us what WE like to feel, but we are all saying that that is in fact NOT what we like to feel cause it feels bad...gross..just bad, sad, uncomfortable...And you are claiming that yeah we don't "like" it but we "respond" to it...well that may be true but that is YOU wanting us to "respond" for your own enjoyment, it has nothing to do with what feels good to US, much less what is good FOR us. (because I do admit that I guess there may be women who enjoy make up sex and feeling close to a man after getting angry and flustered and him apologizing and wooing to get her to forgive like he may have done when they first met...I am not one of them but I can understand the instinct, but that doesn't mean it's right or healthy at all for EITHER person...it IS kind of perverted..and this is where it all starts) I think back and forth banter between couples is very healthy and fun and sexy..flirty competition or put downs that are obviously in good natured fun (preferably the put downs are about something the couple has laughed about previously and is not important to the person being made fun of...NEVER about something that is really important to the SO..i.e. if their dream is to be a singer, NEVER casually insult them on their singing to have a laugh, unless it is obviously sarcastic and everybody knows, including them, that they are practically Aretha Franklin...and EVEN if they ARE just terrible, you tell them directly and supportively if you have to keep them from humiating themselves on AMerican Idol, but never "push their buttons" about something so important) when the other party obviously is crazy about you AND has RESPECT for you is awesome... Like say my SO was making fun of me that I can barely even draw stick figures and most 5 year olds draw better than me..that is fine because I have known for a long time, drawing is not my art or talent, and I will never be a great artist, and it was never my ambition anyway or important to me. I enjoy looking at the beautiful art of others, being an observer, but as for being the "artist" there are other areas I'd be much better suited for...so it's just fun for him to make fun of me cause it's all in fun and I could do the same to him about similar things for HIM (which might not be the same thing, but the rule is the same fashioned to his talents/likes, get it?) I was just watching some episodes of Bones today which display that sort of thing but if anybody can think of any other tv shows or movies that do, I'd welcome some ....or even buddy comedies even though that isn't romantic love per say, it's sort of the same thing.
EarthGirl Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Well why don't you give me an example of abuse, especially as it pertains to the orignal comment that got this thread started in the first place. I would consider calling my GF fat as abuse. However, I do not see how that is relevant to the original comment by gorrilla. And again, there is a big bright red line between that comment and the one regarding my facial hair. I REALLY want to hear a comment that blurs the line between teasing and abusing one's GF. Respect. IF you feel in your heart that you respect her as a person and value her as a human being just as much as you value ANY human being on the planet (hopefully more than a lot of them since she is your girlfriend but that is not especially relevant to this particular part)..AND if you are a believing person..if you believe that God values her just as much as any other human being, just as much as you, AND that God values women and men in general completely EQUALLY, albeit maybe DIFFERENTLY... And if SHE feels that as well...that means that whatever banter is going back and forth it's healthy and not abuse. Doesn't matter if you dissect the exact words, or how anyone else would react if THEIR SO said the same things to them...that is not needed, it's as simple as that. IF YOU feel all those things but she feels differently (that you DON'T respect her)...than either you are not expressing what is really in your heart and things are coming out of your mouth that are hurtful and wrong and do cross a line wether thick or thin, without you knowing it...or...her perspective is somehow blurred and fuzzy for some reason and she is interpreting your words in a way they were not meant. Could be a combination of both, I have to warn you. Then you have to take time to get a wider perspective to see the actual truth.
Paragon Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Paragon, you're a sick bastard who knows nothing about real love...also you are obviously not a women so how would you know what women like to feel regarding emotions? you are TELLING us what WE like to feel, but we are all saying that that is in fact NOT what we like to feel cause it feels bad...gross..just bad, sad, uncomfortable...And you are claiming that yeah we don't "like" it but we "respond" to it...well that may be true but that is YOU wanting us to "respond" for your own enjoyment, it has nothing to do with what feels good to US, much less what is good FOR us. I know a lot of people lie and exaggerate--but know this--I am not one of them. Take my words for what you will--anyone can make any claim over a forum, so I won't get too far into my personal life to prove you wrong. Someone like you would have trouble trusting what I said was true anyway You claim I know nothing of love? I guess that makes me confused, considering the amount of success i've had in my JOB and in my OWN personal romantic relationships....I can't tell you how many people i've help get over countless issues such as these...And you want to insult me? Get real... You obviously can't get past your emotional reactions towards my posts, otherwise you'd be able to make an intelligent comment and address EVERYTHING I said instead of just picking one line and trying to unsuccessfully attack it and disprove it. You're certainly not the first women to liberatingly CLAIM you don't like something, but guess what--it's not a conscious thing. But I mean sheesh, if you're going to sit here on a soap box and declare you CAN say for sure what you unconsciously like and dislike (which is a paradox in and of itself) then please, by all means, I invite you to step up and and prove it. I think back and forth banter between couples is very healthy and fun and sexy..flirty competition or put downs that are obviously in good natured fun (preferably the put downs are about something the couple has laughed about previously and is not important to the person being made fun of...NEVER about something that is really important to the SO..i.e. if their dream is to be a singer, NEVER casually insult them on their singing to have a laugh, unless it is obviously sarcastic and everybody knows, including them, that they are practically Aretha Franklin...and EVEN if they ARE just terrible, you tell them directly and supportively if you have to keep them from humiating themselves on AMerican Idol, but never "push their buttons" about something so important) when the other party obviously is crazy about you AND has RESPECT for you is awesome... And the worst part of all this, is that WE AGREE!!! Like I said, you're just too shortsighted to see that because you can't see beyond how the content of my writing makes you feel.....
Die Hard Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Respect. IF you feel in your heart that you respect her as a person and value her as a human being just as much as you value ANY human being on the planet (hopefully more than a lot of them since she is your girlfriend but that is not especially relevant to this particular part)..AND if you are a believing person..if you believe that God values her just as much as any other human being, just as much as you, AND that God values women and men in general completely EQUALLY, albeit maybe DIFFERENTLY... And if SHE feels that as well...that means that whatever banter is going back and forth it's healthy and not abuse. Doesn't matter if you dissect the exact words, or how anyone else would react if THEIR SO said the same things to them...that is not needed, it's as simple as that. IF YOU feel all those things but she feels differently (that you DON'T respect her)...than either you are not expressing what is really in your heart and things are coming out of your mouth that are hurtful and wrong and do cross a line wether thick or thin, without you knowing it...or...her perspective is somehow blurred and fuzzy for some reason and she is interpreting your words in a way they were not meant. Could be a combination of both, I have to warn you. Then you have to take time to get a wider perspective to see the actual truth. Well as a man I have no idea wtf you're talking about. All I know is that if a women I'm seeing can't handle a little ribbing without it hurting her, or more importantly, give as good as she gets, then we won't be dating long. I can refrain from making hurtful comments but I'll be damned if I'm going to watch what I say around any woman beyond that(excepting vulgar stuff of course.) Hell I know what a hurtful comment is to a woman(I have a thread here somewhere) and if a woman doesn't have a clear understanding of the difference between that and having some fun, again, I'm gone. I'm not going to be responsible for any woman's skewed sensitivities.
You'reasian Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Maybe we should apply the same theory to sex. men should roughly not be getting sex 10-15% of the time...some less or more then others. We can't have sex 100% of the time, so 90-85% is acceptable, I mean people have to eat, sleep and bathe... What will we guys do if we don't get sex? Starts with p...rhymes with torn...
EarthGirl Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Well as a man I have no idea wtf you're talking about. All I know is that if a women I'm seeing can't handle a little ribbing without it hurting her, or more importantly, give as good as she gets, then we won't be dating long. I can refrain from making hurtful comments but I'll be damned if I'm going to watch what I say around any woman beyond that(excepting vulgar stuff of course.) Hell I know what a hurtful comment is to a woman(I have a thread here somewhere) and if a woman doesn't have a clear understanding of the difference between that and having some fun, again, I'm gone. I'm not going to be responsible for any woman's skewed sensitivities. As a HUMAN this should be pretty clear English and a pretty easy concept to understand. It's not gibberish and I am not bull$h*tting. It's not rocket science either, believe me I am not the smartest or most educated person whatsoever I didn't even go to college. But this above, what I said, is your basic example of how to love and respect another human being..it is not some coded girl speak, and I have a feeling you know EXACTLY what I am saying, you just do not want to admit it. I do not believe your shaving example is at all abusive and seems just like playful banter to me (after all it's YOUR face, even if she doesn't like kissing a stubbly face, it's her choice, but it's your choice wether to shave or grow a beard , your body, I would say it would be maybe not abusive but somewhat controlling if a woman told her man NOT to grow a beard just because she didn't like and not for some sort of medical reason, I don't know), people who love eachother piss eachother off sometimes..sort of in fun, sort of in seriousness, but its' not REALLY serious...it's give and take.. You usually KNOW when it's REALLY serious. BUT judging from all your other posts I don't feel like you respect women..and there is no such thing as love without respect...for all intensive purposes, basically the exact same thing. If not exactly the same thing, then they definitely go hand in hand,you cannot have one without the other.
Kamille Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 And I never said you LOVE feeling negative emotions--you simply RESPOND to them. No one wants to ADMIT they respond in a sexual way to negative things because then it makes THEM "perverse." But in the end, it doesn't make any sense to talk about what you THINK you respond to in regards to this because it's mostly unconscious anyways Again, bull. There is scientific evidence that human bodies release endorphins after we hurt ourselves. It doesn't mean we like hurting ourselves, or that this gives me the right to punch out somebody or that I unsconsicously like it when I stub my toe on the corner of my bedpost. And I think you're just comforting your own ideas about masculinity and feminity with this pseudo-science. You like to feel strong and in control, that's what makes you feel desirable, therefore you look for women who respond emotionally. My point is, not all women do. I don't, so please stop pretending you can speak for all women. Especially with so very little evidence.
Author Jersey Shortie Posted September 18, 2009 Author Posted September 18, 2009 You're kidding right? There's PLENTY of other options, just like in your example Jersey where your man "picked your scab"--that's not a two option scenario where the BEST option is making it worse...All it takes is creative thinking and ability to keep centered. Before you said men do it to illicit a emotional response. Now you are saying "keep centered" despite the fact that you defend the actions of someone purposely trying to pull an emotional response. If he wants an emotional response, I will be sure to give him exactly what he wants. Does it make it better? No. But I am giving him exactly what he asked for right? We can't have sex 100% of the time, so 90-85% is acceptable, I mean people have to eat, sleep and bathe... What will we guys do if we don't get sex? Starts with p...rhymes with torn... Perfect example of what we are discussing.
stillafool Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 An ex of mine would love to do this. We'd get into discussions and he would purposefully take a polarized position and stick to it with really no reason it would frustrate me to no end. He always said it was so cute to see me get my feathers ruffled and we'd have a great "all better" moment after, sometimes great sex because of it, but truly I HATED it. It was part of the reason why I started checking out of the relationship and dumped him. I hear you on this one. To me it is playing "games" and I hate it.
Kamille Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 As long as you recognize you are purposely making a bad situation worse, there's nothing else for me to say. Haha! Woohoo! So you admit it: getting someone mad on purpose is creating a bad situation. See, what I find odd about this whole discussion is that it's centered so much around women. Like: oh we are only doing it because women unconsciously like it. So, the reason I take issue with your statements (apart from the generalizations), is that you seem to be saying that women are "asking for it" somehow. That my ex only reduced me to tears because subconsciously, I liked it. I am telling you: no. Stop thinking like that. I am offering an alternative explanation. The guys I have met who get women mad on purpose (and it's far from being all guys) are the ones who derive some kind of pleasure from that. It has nothing to do with the "nature" of women. Or of men for that matter. Now, there might be women out there who like those kinds of relationships, but the majority of women here said we didn't. Now unless you are one of those people who believe you should never listen to a woman, why would you so systematically dismiss what we are telling you?
stillafool Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Part of it is having fun, and part of it is exercising womens emotions. Many women love to get mad, then love it when you make it all better, over silly things. Its very subjective, you have to test the waters, and how to take it. I never go nuts with it. It ranges from a lil thing like calling her a dork, to one nice random smack on the ass....then I make it all better afterwards, and she smiles. Yet men complain and say things like "Women get on my nerves because they are soooooo emotional" or "I wish women would stop being so emotional". I don't understand why men say they don't like emotional women but get upset if a woman is not emotional.
Author Jersey Shortie Posted September 18, 2009 Author Posted September 18, 2009 See, what I find odd about this whole discussion is that it's centered so much around women. Like: oh we are only doing it because women unconsciously like it. So, the reason I take issue with your statements (apart from the generalizations), is that you seem to be saying that women are "asking for it" somehow. That my ex only reduced me to tears because subconsciously, I liked it. I think the kind of teasing that reduces someone to tears is going beyond normal "fun". But I do agree that it's odd how alot of guys are saying women love drama and love being poked at and that they are only doing what women want and are asking for. I mean, honestly, it's clear men love a little drama too and purposely poking at the monkey through the cage. Also funny that Paragon defend that but then says the woman should respond accordingly.
stillafool Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Haha! Woohoo! So you admit it: getting someone mad on purpose is creating a bad situation. See, what I find odd about this whole discussion is that it's centered so much around women. Like: oh we are only doing it because women unconsciously like it. So, the reason I take issue with your statements (apart from the generalizations), is that you seem to be saying that women are "asking for it" somehow. That my ex only reduced me to tears because subconsciously, I liked it. I am telling you: no. Stop thinking like that. I am offering an alternative explanation. The guys I have met who get women mad on purpose (and it's far from being all guys) are the ones who derive some kind of pleasure from that. It has nothing to do with the "nature" of women. Or of men for that matter. Now, there might be women out there who like those kinds of relationships, but the majority of women here said we didn't. Now unless you are one of those people who believe you should never listen to a woman, why would you so systematically dismiss what we are telling you? Well said!
Kamille Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 I think the kind of teasing that reduces someone to tears is going beyond normal "fun". But I do agree that it's odd how alot of guys are saying women love drama and love being poked at and that they are only doing what women want and are asking for. I mean, honestly, it's clear men love a little drama too and purposely poking at the monkey through the cage. Exactly! That's the question! Who loves drama most? The person who provokes it or the person who suffers it? And yes, there is a huge difference between teasing someone and remaining respectful and pushing someone's button on purpose to get them riled up. I like and enjoy a good tease and recognize it's value. But if I notice that my "teasing" is upsetting someone, I stop and apologize for my behaviour. I don't go on with it, telling them they need to build a "tougher skin" or are just being overly emotional. I take responsiblity for my actions and how they impact other people. I can't help but feel that the guys who say they like to push women's buttons because women subconsciouly love feeling negative emotions are avoiding taking responsibility for their actions. While they've explained their vision of the "female psychology" behind the tauntings, they haven't explained the "male psychology" of it.
Author Jersey Shortie Posted September 18, 2009 Author Posted September 18, 2009 I completely agree with you Kamille. I don't like that "thicker skin" business either. I don't want to be like a man so don't try to make me into one. If you want to tease your male friends, go for it. If you all have thick skins, fabulous. But do you want to date a girl or a man? I mean clearly one of the things men like about women is that they are softer. So why would you want me to be more like a man?
Trialbyfire Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 You're kidding, right? It amazes me how easily people throw around terms like that. What you're describing is ONE specific motive behind a situation like this, providing your not inclusively talking about mentally abusing someone.Note I said "reliant on how far"? Obviously not. Anyone who would push someone's buttons to the point where they're angry or crying, is mentally ill. Hey this is LS, it's only natural that a thread about why men tease women would turn into a discussion about abuse and mental illness. Women love drama and this thread is no different.Abusive behaviour is a form of mental illness.
Paragon Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Before you said men do it to illicit a emotional response. Now you are saying "keep centered" despite the fact that you defend the actions of someone purposely trying to pull an emotional response. First of all, it's ELICIT, not ILLICIT. Second of all, you keep YOURSELF centered to the point where you don't lose sight of the fact that he's not trying to hurt you when he pushes your buttons. Why is this so hard for you to wrap your head around? If he wants an emotional response, I will be sure to give him exactly what he wants. Does it make it better? No. But I am giving him exactly what he asked for right? No, you're not. He's not asking for an immature reaction. But, again, nice try.
Paragon Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Haha! Woohoo! So you admit it: getting someone mad on purpose is creating a bad situation. Uhm, YEA if the situation started because the other person WANTED to hurt you. Everyone here is interchangably using the terms "pushing buttons" and mental abuse. Be specific. See, what I find odd about this whole discussion is that it's centered so much around women. Like: oh we are only doing it because women unconsciously like it. So, the reason I take issue with your statements (apart from the generalizations), is that you seem to be saying that women are "asking for it" somehow. That my ex only reduced me to tears because subconsciously, I liked it. Um, yea. Find for me where I said women are asking for it? Never said that. And again, you're arbitrarily switching from button pushing to "reducing to tears". THEY'RE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!!!! I am telling you: no. Stop thinking like that. I am offering an alternative explanation. The guys I have met who get women mad on purpose (and it's far from being all guys) are the ones who derive some kind of pleasure from that. It has nothing to do with the "nature" of women. Or of men for that matter. Wonderful source for your assertion--your sample is the men in your life. Wow--truly astounding. Actually, that's only a small percentage of men. Now, there might be women out there who like those kinds of relationships, but the majority of women here said we didn't. Now unless you are one of those people who believe you should never listen to a woman, why would you so systematically dismiss what we are telling you? I've said it THREE times now--how can you sit here and claim what you unconsciously like and respond to? I don't think you understand the consequences of saying--I can get inside my own unconscious. Not even Freud said that was possible, and he created the idea of the unconscious in the first place!!
Author Jersey Shortie Posted September 18, 2009 Author Posted September 18, 2009 Second of all, you keep YOURSELF centered to the point where you don't lose sight of the fact that he's not trying to hurt you when he pushes your buttons. Why is this so hard for you to wrap your head around? So he wants to push my hot buttons, he knows these are my hot buttons and know that's going to hurt a little bit at the very least and he doesn't have to control himself because he wants an emotional reaction from me. On top of that, *I* am the one expected to use self-control when he is getting the exact response he asked for. When he is purpoesly choosing to poke at the things that do bother me. LOL, AMAZING. Do you ever think men should take any responsiblitly for themselves or do you just expect women to pick up the slack on everything? No, you're not. He's not asking for an immature reaction. But, again, nice try. That's exactly what he is looking for. You don't purposely poke someone's hot buttons on the mind-set that A) You are behaving maturely and B) The person's reaction should be mature.
Trialbyfire Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 JS, I have to inject something, in defense of all men. Some men and some women, will go to all lengths for personal amusement, regardless of how it hurts another person. For that matter, they enjoy another's discomfort, anger and pain which doesn't say much for them, as people. Your average guy will tease. Your average women also teases. But all within the boundaries of tastefulness and an acceptable level of respect.
Paragon Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 So he wants to push my hot buttons, he knows these are my hot buttons and know that's going to hurt a little bit at the very least and he doesn't have to control himself because he wants an emotional reaction from me. Never said that. STOP telling me i'm saying things I CLEARLY NEVER SAID!! Why is that so hard? Also, read what I said to others--it's either button pushing, or abuse--they're two different things and warrant two COMPLETELY different explanations. I said: He's not asking for an immature reaction. But, again, nice try. You said: That's exactly what he is looking for. And again, i'll say--WRONG! What kind of person pushes buttons to elicit an IMMATURE RESPONSE? That makes no sense
Rudderless Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 That's exactly what he is looking for. You don't purposely poke someone's hot buttons on the mind-set that A) You are behaving maturely and B) The person's reaction should be mature. Not only is it immature to poke at someone in a non-respectful way, it's also immature to enable that behaviour. I'm sorry but pot, meet kettle. If you are anything like you are in real life than you are on here then you are going to find people poking at you a lot, it is the way of the world. Nobody can get into as many heated debates about men as you do on here without deliberately wanting to be riled up. If you don't want to be riled up over everything stop courting the controversy.
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