Why do you stay and how?

[GypsyRayne]

If you read my other posts you know I recently discovered that my h has been posting on a gay personal site. He has told me over and over, he is not gay or bi, has never physically been with a man, and that it is a sick fantasy thing. He also says he is addicted to porn. Do I believe him? I don't know for sure. I want to know the truth, no matter what it is and have told him this.

 

The trust in our R is broken, he betrayed it. I go to work and I wonder what he is up to. Is he cheating? Where is he? That sort of thing. I feel so hurt, so depressed and so betrayed.

 

H and I have been through so much together. And I feel he has destroyed everything.

 

Everyday since it happened, I think I should just come home and tell him, I want a divorce. But something stops me. I don't think anyone should feel like this and no one should have to live with the doubts and insecurities a betrayal like this causes.

 

How do you do it and most importantly why?

[eeyore1981]

Gypsy, I have stayed because I still believe there is something in my marriage worth trying to keep. I took steps to leave on Sunday, but couldn't follow through. I believe I am strong enough to get past this, though that feeling comes and goes. I still love my husband, and in my situation, I mostly believe he made a terrible mistake because he has never obtained coping skills to work through life problems. I also take this a day at a time, some days are better than others. I try to educate myself, and try to be true to myself. Not always successful, but when I fail, I try to learn something from that.

No matter which way you decide to go, there is going to be a lot of pain. There's no getting around it. It's not fair, and it sux, but it is what it is.

[Spark1111]

Are both of you guys in IC? Are your spouses? Are you in MC with your spouses?

 

I too think there is something worth saving, but BOTH partners have to work very hard for it.

 

It is very painful, especially on those days when I feel I am working harder, trying harder, than he is.

 

He just wants to move forward and forget the past.

 

I can't. I need to examine the past to ensure I NEVER feel this bad again, with or without him.

 

I think, I would rather do all this painful work, he should too!, so we can say either "this is the best relationship I could have ever dreamed of, or, we need to shake hands and say good-bye.

 

At peace, with my head held high, having BOTH tried our hardest.

[silktricks]

 

I think, I would rather do all this painful work, he should too!, so we can say either "this is the best relationship I could have ever dreamed of, or, we need to shake hands and say good-bye.

 

At peace, with my head held high, having BOTH tried our hardest.

 

ahhhhh, Spark, I'm not laughing at you, but myself....

 

I remember being in the absolute middle of turmoil, and looking at him. He'd be so serious and I'd think - "ah, he's thinking about this, too." Then I'd ask him what he was thinking about, certain that he'd be thinking about our issues, but nooooo, he'd be thinking about chores or work or some problem with one of the animals!!!! But then other times, I'd come home from work having had a pretty good day, and it turned out that he left early because he'd been so upset about our problems that he couldn't concentrate...

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you never really know what's going on in another person's mind. Maybe he's working just as hard as you, but you don't know it, because he's working differently than you.

[PhoenixRise]

I think before you even start to think about possibly maybe trying to save the relationship you need the truth about the infidelity.

 

AND I am sorry to say, I don't think you have that. Nobody posts on a gay personals website just for kicks. Your H is either gay or bi. You need to know the truth. I think it would be a mistake to just gloss over the fact of what you found because he claims he is not gay. If you had not found proof, he probaly would never have admitted to anyone that he even posted to such a site.

[GypsyRayne]

I think before you even start to think about possibly maybe trying to save the relationship you need the truth about the infidelity.

 

AND I am sorry to say, I don't think you have that. Nobody posts on a gay personals website just for kicks. Your H is either gay or bi. You need to know the truth. I think it would be a mistake to just gloss over the fact of what you found because he claims he is not gay. If you had not found proof, he probaly would never have admitted to anyone that he even posted to such a site.

 

PheoxixRose, this is something that I think about constantly. I have asked him over and over, but he still says no. The mc told him he needs to work on figuring this out, but h said I am not gay or bi. I have asked at first angrily, but then after very calmly.

 

How can you get a different answer that what he gives. I have told him if you are either gay or bi, just admit it, I deserve to know the truth. I told him I would never tell a single person. But he still denys this.

[Devil Inside]

ahhhhh, Spark, I'm not laughing at you, but myself....

 

I remember being in the absolute middle of turmoil, and looking at him. He'd be so serious and I'd think - "ah, he's thinking about this, too." Then I'd ask him what he was thinking about, certain that he'd be thinking about our issues, but nooooo, he'd be thinking about chores or work or some problem with one of the animals!!!! But then other times, I'd come home from work having had a pretty good day, and it turned out that he left early because he'd been so upset about our problems that he couldn't concentrate...

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you never really know what's going on in another person's mind. Maybe he's working just as hard as you, but you don't know it, because he's working differently than you.

 

And sometimes you can think to much...I know I over analyze every detail about my situation!

[Chrome Barracuda]

excuse me GR sorry to bring this up could this be karma coming home to roost for you. If I'm not mistaken? I mean he is your second husband and you did sleep with him while you was married to someone else? Could it be possible that , that's his thing in life. To have affairs. to keep looking for that natural high?

[tami-chan]

excuse me GR sorry to bring this up could this be karma coming home to roost for you. If I'm not mistaken? I mean he is your second husband and you did sleep with him while you was married to someone else? Could it be possible that , that's his thing in life. To have affairs. to keep looking for that natural high?

 

 

Unbelievable.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Am I wrong for saying something that was nagging at me in the back of my mind??? WTF tami hear me out!

 

What if this man is a serial cheater or something you have people who narcissistically chase others while jonesing for that next high whether it's cheating with someone new or any affair. With this going on and how she met the man I question the poster to really think could this be a man she could trust KNOWING of how she got with him???

 

Any man who's able to engage in an affair knowingly and move in on a married woman? could they be trusted in the long run especially if normally that type of decision is wrong?

 

IDK.

 

I mean if I met my girlfriend while still married, had an affair with her and left my thenbetrayed wife and she aided me on destroying my family, lying to my then wife, and being an accomplice to all the bad stuff I did. What makes me think she's not capable of betraying me in turn or I to her???

 

The old saying goes if they do it with you, they also do it against you.

 

IDK I'm just pointing out the obvious things I read from the other poster...

 

I didnt cause the situation, just trying to help.

 

Take it for what it's worth.

[Spark1111]

And sometimes you can think to much...I know I over analyze every detail about my situation!

 

Silk, DI, honestly it's two years out and HE now suffers more than I do!

 

Rather than taking solace from his remorse, I believe it has actually become a real impediment to our healing.

 

We should be able to have easy, calm discussion at any time, but it is not like that.

 

He crumples, grows sad, and maybe more than I, wishes it never happened. It has changed his legacy, forever re-written our marrital history, and his children will always view him as the man whose actions robbed their mother of her strength and confidence.

 

He thinks now of his OW, someone he was deeply in love with at the time (considered leaving me for her) as a needy, vulnerable, very manipulative and passively angry woman, who, to an extent, played him.

 

But he played her too, and that also hurts.

 

He doesn't recognize himself. So he tries, very hard to forget it happened.

 

I need him to forgive himself so we can get to a better place TOGETHER.

[PhoenixRise]

In cases where you must know the truth and the other person refuses to give you the truth... it is important to get the truth. IMO the truth in this situation is of preeminent importance as it can literally cause destruction to the lives of the individuals and the group (family) if left unaddressed. Frankly you can't risk AIDS.

 

I have heard about people who force cheating spouses into polygraphs. Often times I look at this as almost crossing the line... however in this case I believe it is justified.

 

You may NEVER get a straight answer from him on this. You could throw him in therapy and perhaps NEVER get him to deal. Never.

 

What you need is the truth. Period. You cannot build a relationship with a man who doesn't even know what his sexual identity is... and, having asked a few guys about your situation their feedback is consistently the same... this isn't about porn... it is about wanting sex with a man. Period.

 

Now, whether he's done it or not remains to be seen. Polygraph him. Boundaries and the respect of boundaries is a discussion better left to other issues and relationships...as I know and understand the invasion of privacy associated with a polygraph... hot to mention what it implies. However, IMO this situation is not a game and you cannot risk AIDS. Plain and simple.

 

Working in Manhattan and walking through Port Authority I'd see middle aged men with their briefcases picking up young boys outside of the men's room... for sex. The very same dirtball then standing in line for the bus... toting his wedding ring.

 

Deal with this for your own mental health, emotional health, physical health and safety.

 

A polygraph is a great idea. Tell him that if he wants to reconcile the marriage he must take a polygraph first. You need it for your peace of mind and for your physical health. If he refuses then take that as an admission that he is gay and deep in the closet and walk away.

 

If he loves you, and he is not gay, and he wants the marriage he will take the polygraph.

[2sure]

Right now I am staying because I am not healthy enough emotionally or financially to leave. Like Spark said, I have to process this so that I can move on myself - with or without him.

 

Emotionally, I wont have anything to offer someone else for a long time. First, I have to reconcile this to myself so I can function in a happy and healthy way in my life with my daughter. I can get there.

 

Financially, my career works in part with his. So I have to separate that. We have only been married 4 years so in divorce court I wont be seen as having so much invested that I'm entitled to much. I'm over 40 , I have a child that is not his, and I dont have much money. Thats a fact and it has to change. Fortunately, he has reason to be motivated to keep me financially secure regardless...the longer I can wait, the better off financially I will be.

 

Finally, I stay because I want to ...when I am stronger in every way - pull the rug from beneath him completely and dance a jig while he tries to pick up the broken pieces of his life, career, and future.

[mnm]

Please don't take my post the wrong way. I know you are asking about staying in the M.

 

No heterosexual male would post to a gay site period. SOMETHING is obviously going on. He probably hasn't admitted it to himself yet.

 

You have to ask yourself if you can be a part of that lifestyle. B/C the unfortunately reality is you are or soon will be whether you know or realize it.

[Spark1111]

Sadly, I think MNM is right. Do what you need to do to ascertain the truth.

 

It's imperative to your future, and your sanity.

[silktricks]

Silk, DI, honestly it's two years out and HE now suffers more than I do!

 

Rather than taking solace from his remorse, I believe it has actually become a real impediment to our healing.

 

We should be able to have easy, calm discussion at any time, but it is not like that.

 

He crumples, grows sad, and maybe more than I, wishes it never happened. It has changed his legacy, forever re-written our marrital history, and his children will always view him as the man whose actions robbed their mother of her strength and confidence.

 

He thinks now of his OW, someone he was deeply in love with at the time (considered leaving me for her) as a needy, vulnerable, very manipulative and passively angry woman, who, to an extent, played him.

 

But he played her too, and that also hurts.

 

He doesn't recognize himself. So he tries, very hard to forget it happened.

 

I need him to forgive himself so we can get to a better place TOGETHER.

 

I've highlighted a few things.

 

First... are you sure you're not me??? and your husband isn't mine??? OK, anyway, this was EXACTLY the same thing for us. I needed for him to be able to get to a point where we could discuss both her and the situation without him getting so despondent that I started getting afraid he would injure himself. He had a h*ll of a time recognizing that he was the same person who cheated, lied and acted like the type of person he had always despised. He felt worthless. He couldn't believe that I could EVER forgive him - because he couldn't forgive himself.

 

The OW in his eyes went from someone he at the very least had a deep attraction to (that's the most he would ever admit to... but IMO he thought he loved her), to someone he thought was the lowest of the low, a manipulative b*tch (to use his words) who played him. For a period of time, he pretty much detested all women and if one was even slightly friendly to him he assumed the worst.

 

Anyway, I thought that if we could get to the point where she would come up in conversation casually without him tweaking out at what he had done, that we would be able to finally move on. I think (maybe) that happened - but if so, it was only once or at most twice. At last, we decided that together we would jointly start over. We didn't want to act as if our marriage wasn't valid, so didn't want to do a vow renewal thing. But we wanted a ritualization of forgiveness. So, we did two things. First we each wrote down privately everything we had ever done to the other person that was deceptive and/or hurtful, that we were ashamed of. We did not show those lists to each other. Instead we sealed them in envelopes and burned them. I burned his list, he burned mine.

 

Then jointly we wrote down everything we forgave the other person for. I wrote down what I forgave him for, he wrote what he forgave me for, and did the same thing - burned the lists. Then we took the ashes from all four lists, mixed them together, took them to a windy hilltop, said "it's over, and I forgive you" together. we released the ashes into the wind. Since then we have not talked about the hurts of the past.

 

If one of us becomes worried about the actions of the other because of the past, we talk about those actions. We don't talk about the past (at least not the painful past.. ). My husband said to me (before we went through our ritual) - what if I've forgotten something? What happens if you should run into her and she'd tell you something that's different than what we've ever discussed? I told him that I didn't care what she would say. She could say they f*cked like rabbits (they had an EA). It's over. I don't want what happened or didn't happen to ever affect our life again. I was so incredibly sick of discussing it that I didn't EVER want to hear about it again.

 

Ya know??? since that time - I've been fine. He's been fine. It's really over. Neither of us is afraid. He's not afraid that if he remembers something that he MUST tell me - because part of the thing was that I don't want to hear anymore about it. I'm not afraid that some "new" truth will come to light and I'll have to start over from the beginning again. I honestly believe that if the OW came up to me and told me ANYTHING - that I'd just laugh.. Not because I either would or would not believe her - but because it just doesn't matter. Whatever happened back then - it happened. But it's not him, it's not now, it's not our relationship. It's the really dead past.

[Spark1111]

I've highlighted a few things.

 

First... are you sure you're not me??? and your husband isn't mine??? OK, anyway, this was EXACTLY the same thing for us. I needed for him to be able to get to a point where we could discuss both her and the situation without him getting so despondent that I started getting afraid he would injure himself. He had a h*ll of a time recognizing that he was the same person who cheated, lied and acted like the type of person he had always despised. He felt worthless. He couldn't believe that I could EVER forgive him - because he couldn't forgive himself.

 

The OW in his eyes went from someone he at the very least had a deep attraction to (that's the most he would ever admit to... but IMO he thought he loved her), to someone he thought was the lowest of the low, a manipulative b*tch (to use his words) who played him. For a period of time, he pretty much detested all women and if one was even slightly friendly to him he assumed the worst.

 

Anyway, I thought that if we could get to the point where she would come up in conversation casually without him tweaking out at what he had done, that we would be able to finally move on. I think (maybe) that happened - but if so, it was only once or at most twice. At last, we decided that together we would jointly start over. We didn't want to act as if our marriage wasn't valid, so didn't want to do a vow renewal thing. But we wanted a ritualization of forgiveness. So, we did two things. First we each wrote down privately everything we had ever done to the other person that was deceptive and/or hurtful, that we were ashamed of. We did not show those lists to each other. Instead we sealed them in envelopes and burned them. I burned his list, he burned mine.

 

Then jointly we wrote down everything we forgave the other person for. I wrote down what I forgave him for, he wrote what he forgave me for, and did the same thing - burned the lists. Then we took the ashes from all four lists, mixed them together, took them to a windy hilltop, said "it's over, and I forgive you" together. we released the ashes into the wind. Since then we have not talked about the hurts of the past.

 

If one of us becomes worried about the actions of the other because of the past, we talk about those actions. We don't talk about the past (at least not the painful past.. ). My husband said to me (before we went through our ritual) - what if I've forgotten something? What happens if you should run into her and she'd tell you something that's different than what we've ever discussed? I told him that I didn't care what she would say. She could say they f*cked like rabbits (they had an EA). It's over. I don't want what happened or didn't happen to ever affect our life again. I was so incredibly sick of discussing it that I didn't EVER want to hear about it again.

 

Ya know??? since that time - I've been fine. He's been fine. It's really over. Neither of us is afraid. He's not afraid that if he remembers something that he MUST tell me - because part of the thing was that I don't want to hear anymore about it. I'm not afraid that some "new" truth will come to light and I'll have to start over from the beginning again. I honestly believe that if the OW came up to me and told me ANYTHING - that I'd just laugh.. Not because I either would or would not believe her - but because it just doesn't matter. Whatever happened back then - it happened. But it's not him, it's not now, it's not our relationship. It's the really dead past.

 

Soooo want to be at that point. Getting closer....but not quite there yet.