PhoenixRise Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 It is a classic characterisitc of the cheater...trying to fill a void of pain or loneliness by turning to another and avoiding turning within to find the answers. Only when we love ourselves fully, can we fully love another. That is why IC for the cheater is of such vast importance for the sake of the relationship. It can also be why MC, while important, can be somewhat premature. The cheater has soooooo much internal work to do. Keep your hopes realistic, foreal. This is soooooo true. We want to save them. We want them to actually be the men we always thought they were, the men we know they can be.... but they have to save themselves before they can be worth a da** to anyone else.
PhoenixRise Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 [QUOTE=Spark1111;2388093]That is why IC for the cheater is of such vast importance for the sake of the relationship. It can also be why MC, while important, can be somewhat premature. The cheater has soooooo much internal work to do. Thank you, thank you...its not me. H has been seeing a MC, basically without me. H , as you know, is a serial cheater - who created another identity, had a secret phone, secret car...etc. He was caught by me simply because he became so out of control he was unable to use enough discretion to protect even himself. So - he is going to MC. Now, this is the third although most breathtaking time I have caught him...Ive been to IC, I've been here, I've read the books - I KNOW THE DRILL. Last time, I go with him. Just so we are all on the same page and because he asked me to give him until a specific date to make a decision. The MC is explaining to me, to us, that his type of cheating is unemotional, immediate gratification, compartmentalized....he called it pornographic cheating. OK - Gotcha, I'm with ya. In discussing the issue of my H's non-need for intimacy and in fact, the avoidance of it...I disclosed that I also suspected I had some issues with intimacy that I may have brought into the marriage. It was as if I handed them the HOLY GRAIL. The therapist grasped on this and I felt, ran with it. And I'm trying to not be defensive - I dont RE mention that its possible my catching him cheating months after our marriage may be something I never quite got over....But I cant help but say, in light of the scope, the breath, the effort, expense, the whole other identity with another NAME and all: "Uhhhh....I cant help but feel we are kind of skirting something here, an important issue...THE FACT THAT MY HUSBAND IS OUT OF HIS FREAKING MIND????" I mean, seriously - you expect me to talk about what, having romantic dinners to reconnect while all the time I'm wondering if he is starting to refer to himself in the third person?????? Sorry. Thank you. I think your MC just wanted to focus on a problem he thought he could actually help fix, your garden variety intimacy issues. I don't know of any MC that can fix somebody with multiple identities, cars, phones, ID's, etc. This MC is wasting your money.
Dexter Morgan Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 It is interesting how many women here say to see his side, to show empathy etc.....the men are much less forgiving or maybe tolerant..I swear I must really be a man, with really great tits and ass. LOL @ T&A I think women throw too much emotion in the mix when dealing with infidelity while most men see it for what it is.....your spouse f#####g someone else. It makes me cringe to think people would see the side of someone trying to justify their affair. And anyone that says you have to understand his side of it and see that your behavior pushed him to cheat are expecting you to succumb to emotional extortion....it must have been your fault, therefore you have to do what he wants to keep him from cheating again. load of bullsh#t. this is why I'll never stay with a cheater. I'm not going to be made to feel like I have to walk on eggshells to keep someone from cheating on me. That kind of person isn't worth having around.
eeyore1981 Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 LOL @ T&A I think women throw too much emotion in the mix when dealing with infidelity while most men see it for what it is.....your spouse f#####g someone else. It makes me cringe to think people would see the side of someone trying to justify their affair. And anyone that says you have to understand his side of it and see that your behavior pushed him to cheat are expecting you to succumb to emotional extortion....it must have been your fault, therefore you have to do what he wants to keep him from cheating again. load of bullsh#t. this is why I'll never stay with a cheater. I'm not going to be made to feel like I have to walk on eggshells to keep someone from cheating on me. That kind of person isn't worth having around. BBM I agree completely with what I bolded above. The "you have to understand his side" part, I think if someone is wanting to fix their marriage, that is important, but for the BS to help in healing and getting past in, not to take on the blame.
Author foreal Posted September 16, 2009 Author Posted September 16, 2009 I think your MC just wanted to focus on a problem he thought he could actually help fix, your garden variety intimacy issues. I don't know of any MC that can fix somebody with multiple identities, cars, phones, ID's, etc. This MC is wasting your money. 2Sure, I think what Phoenix says here is right on...MC knows there aint no way MC is gonna solve this problem...but ah ha!! thank goodness 2Sure brought up her issue b/c that is something MC can address, which also means MC can make his next payment on his Mercedes. What a dick.
Spark1111 Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 I waited six months before I felt calm enough to go to MC. My husband had just had three months of IC before we went. I've been in therapy, on and off, for years. The marriage is the client to be treated, not me, not him. We both faced a hot seat. No marriage is perfect, and the MC attempts to give you tools to enhance or repair the relationship, as it is RIGHT NOW. I wanted to discuss it all, but especially the infidelity, and I remained unsure if I wanted to be married to this man. HE had soooo many issues. He wanted to discuss the marriage, but was not yet willing to be brutally honest about the infidelity. It felt to me, like we were in the Pricipal's office, after spitting gum balls at each other. It was way too soon to be effective.
Spark1111 Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 bbm i agree completely with what i bolded above. The "you have to understand his side" part, i think if someone is wanting to fix their marriage, that is important, but for the bs to help in healing and getting past in, not to take on the blame. that is exactly what it felt like.
Snowflower Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 BBM I agree completely with what I bolded above. The "you have to understand his side" part, I think if someone is wanting to fix their marriage, that is important, but for the BS to help in healing and getting past in, not to take on the blame. I just want to clarify something because I know I mentioned the 'understanding his side' part. Understanding and having compassion for the feelings of a WS is NOT the same as justifying or taking the blame for their decision to have an affair, at least IMO. Sure, some will say there is nothing to 'understand' because an affair is always wrong and it certainly is. But for those of us who still did love their spouse and wanted to save their marriages, a certain level of 'understanding' was necessary to move forward. I won't add any more to this thread since it appears my advice wasn't helpful!
eeyore1981 Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 I just want to clarify something because I know I mentioned the 'understanding his side' part. Understanding and having compassion for the feelings of a WS is NOT the same as justifying or taking the blame for their decision to have an affair, at least IMO. Sure, some will say there is nothing to 'understand' because an affair is always wrong and it certainly is. But for those of us who still did love their spouse and wanted to save their marriages, a certain level of 'understanding' was necessary to move forward. I won't add any more to this thread since it appears my advice wasn't helpful! I'm not sure what this means. Maybe something is being lost because of the medium (typing on a forum) we are using to communicate? I left that part unbolded, because I feel like you do, understanding is not condoning or accepting fault, however, IMO, is essential to having a good marriage, if that is the intent.
Snowflower Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 I'm not sure what this means. Maybe something is being lost because of the medium (typing on a forum) we are using to communicate? I left that part unbolded, because I feel like you do, understanding is not condoning or accepting fault, however, IMO, is essential to having a good marriage, if that is the intent. Sorry, eeyore, it was not directed at you even though I used your quote for reference. I know much is lost in translation when you use a medium such as this. I was trying to clarify my point that if you want to save a marriage, you have to understand the feelings of your spouse. This is true in so many aspects of a successful marital relationship. When your spouse has betrayed and hurt you, this is obviously much more difficult to do but it still has to be done nonetheless-if there is any chance for your marriage to succeed. My marriage was successfully recovered after infidelity and I'm proud and happy to say this. I try to offer hope and guidance to others here when I think I have something helpful to offer. I know not every marriage can/should be saved after infidelity. But, I try to help where I can and apparently my contributions were not seen as useful on this thread. Sorry for the misunderstanding, eeyore!
eeyore1981 Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Sorry, eeyore, it was not directed at you even though I used your quote for reference. I know much is lost in translation when you use a medium such as this. I was trying to clarify my point that if you want to save a marriage, you have to understand the feelings of your spouse. This is true in so many aspects of a successful marital relationship. When your spouse has betrayed and hurt you, this is obviously much more difficult to do but it still has to be done nonetheless-if there is any chance for your marriage to succeed. My marriage was successfully recovered after infidelity and I'm proud and happy to say this. I try to offer hope and guidance to others here when I think I have something helpful to offer. I know not every marriage can/should be saved after infidelity. But, I try to help where I can and apparently my contributions were not seen as useful on this thread. Sorry for the misunderstanding, eeyore! BBM Don't worry about me. I am still holding out some hope of someday getting to where you are, so I find what you have to say very useful!
SidLyon Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 I haven't finished reading this thread yet - but something said earlier caught my eye. I hope I'm not straying too far off topic. I read an article recently (can't find it now) about how relationship counseling can actually be detrimental to women. The thrust of the argument goes that women are much more receptive to the idea of counseling and that men often have to be dragged there, protesting all the while. The therapists and counselors have a hard time keeping the men in counseling so often they seize on something the woman says (sometimes just a throwaway line that isn't terribly important but is still an acknowledgment of a small fault) and then run with it as far as they can. This causes the woman to feel completely invalidated and that the counselor has misunderstood; but the man feels the opposite and thus is more likely to return for another session. I hope I've got the gist of it right. There were a couple of instance when our counselor did this to my annoyance. My H has also made the comment that it's been all about me ever since my discovery of his infidelities. Well yes it has - but what did he expect with the most destructive episode of my life. If we'd have swept it all under the rug we'd just have a lumpy rug on which nobody could balance. S
2sure Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Our most recent session , the one I referred to ended with me saying "Look, someone in this room is crazy. Which one of you is it? " I am open to MC only because there are things I need to learn about marriage. Looking at my own past - I have to admit I have no reason to believe I would recognize a healthy marriage or relationship if it fell in my lap. So, there is that. But my H's issue is so encompassing, so broad...It doesnt take a relationship professional to see that this is more than a relationship problem. MC at this point, is like putting a bandaid on an amputation. My H is away right now. Last night he called me, all sad etc. "You dont miss me anymore." No I dont. He made an effort this time to tell me his exact room # and his itinerary...but I told him, look I dont care where you are. I have no reason to believe anything you say so caring or checking up on you is only frustrating to me. I'm not taking on that job this time. Also: His behavior has emasculated him in my eyes. And thats what makes even having a conversation with him about anything , during the time we have to stay together - so hard. He has emasculated himself, and thats something I just cant stand in a man. Fair or not.
boldjack Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 I have always thought that MC is not as productive or positive as IC. If you know yourself, You should be able to find somebody that compliments you, and that you compliment. MC is all about communication, and most people would agree that you should not be married to anybody you do not have good communication with .
silktricks Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 most people would agree that you should not be married to anybody you do not have good communication with . welllllll, though this is almost undoubtedly true, it kinda misses the point. Generally speaking when people get married they are communicating, but with many couples over time their communication with each other dwindles. It's easier to talk about the really hard stuff when you don't have as much to lose (before you're married). Sometimes the longer you're married the less you want to rock the boat (for whatever reason). It could be that you (speaking generally, of course) are attempting to protect your spouse from unhappy information, it could be that you've gotten caught up in day to day living and don't have as much to talk about. It could be that you just are talking at cross purposes - not understanding what the other is saying... It could be any number of things. But communication between spouses is OFTEN a contributing factor in troubled marriages. So, though IC may be good, it usually doesn't do anything about helping the marriage, as IC will usually not bring to light the fact that you haven't been communicating with your spouse. Often you don't know that communication itself has failed until a 3rd party can see the interaction and do a little translating... as it were.... Also, something I (personally) found in IC is that many counselors seem to aim for finding your SO at the root of your problems. I've been to a number of different counselors throughout my life and found this to be the case so often, that I really am not very interested in IC anymore. They always seemed to want to focus on something outside of myself, whereas I wanted to focus on me.....
silverfish Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 Our most recent session , the one I referred to ended with me saying "Look, someone in this room is crazy. Which one of you is it? " I am open to MC only because there are things I need to learn about marriage. Looking at my own past - I have to admit I have no reason to believe I would recognize a healthy marriage or relationship if it fell in my lap. So, there is that. But my H's issue is so encompassing, so broad...It doesnt take a relationship professional to see that this is more than a relationship problem. MC at this point, is like putting a bandaid on an amputation. My H is away right now. Last night he called me, all sad etc. "You dont miss me anymore." No I dont. He made an effort this time to tell me his exact room # and his itinerary...but I told him, look I dont care where you are. I have no reason to believe anything you say so caring or checking up on you is only frustrating to me. I'm not taking on that job this time. Also: His behavior has emasculated him in my eyes. And thats what makes even having a conversation with him about anything , during the time we have to stay together - so hard. He has emasculated himself, and thats something I just cant stand in a man. Fair or not. Did you get a response to that question 2sure?! I can relate to the emasculation thing. It's a strange thing, and not something I expected. How do you get back from that? It's not something I ever worked out. Our sex life was terrible afterwards even though it was 6 yrs before we split, I never felt the same about him again
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