BurriedAlive Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 I have become very close to a MM that I work with. He lives and works in a city a little over an hour away for our company. He usually travels to our head office once or twice a week. The problem is that we talk several times per day. We call each other about everything and he involves me in his work business in what seems as every chance he gets. We have even talked on evenings and weekends from our homes about work related issues. He also calls me at times with no real reasons behind his call. Occassionally we will have lunch together when we are in the same town and this seems to be happening more and more recently. He often compliments me on how funny and smart I am. Nothing has ever been said between us that could be classified as inappropriate or with sexual undertones. He doesn't directly flirt with me nor I with him. Most of our conversations are about work however he will ask me the occassional personal question like what I am doing this weekend. He always talks about his personal life with "I"s not "we"s. He very rarely ever refers to his wife. When he does he calls her "his wife" not by her name. He does not have any children. I am a single mom with 1 little boy. I am concerned that this is an emotional affair. I am worried that we are playing with fire. He really does seem like a nice guy and I am not getting vibes from him that he cheats on his wife. Like I said before, nothing inappropriate has happened. I am adamant to not start an affair with this guy whether it be emotional or physical. So, I am wondering, can we just be work friends? If you were his wife, would you consider our behavior as inappropriate in any way? I do not know how much his wife knows about me but if you were her would you be hurt by our "relationship"??? Input would be appreciated! Thanks!
TaraMaiden Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 if you think, in your mind, that there's more to this than what is currently happening - then there's more to this than is currently happening. If there is even the remotest suspicion in your mind thst feelings are straying into risky areas - then that's what they're doing. But it looks to me, from what you say, as if his input is neutral. He hasn't mentioned any problems or issues with his wife, nor given any hint that he is prepared to increase an emotional attachment to you. Therefore, from what I can read, this seems to be in your opinion, and from your perception. What do you think you should do about it? Given that, on the face of it, he has more at risk than you have.....
jj33 Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 Stop stop stop now. This was how I ended up getting into an A. Its great to bond with someone you work with and to have an ally but when you are speaking more than is necessary that is a danger sign. Its called work for a reason. And that much communication is not necessary for you to do your job well. Force youself to pull it back. You will miss the bond but its not worth sliding over the line. Its something that creeps up on you and before you know it, you have crossed the line.
Author BurriedAlive Posted September 13, 2009 Author Posted September 13, 2009 But it looks to me, from what you say, as if his input is neutral. He hasn't mentioned any problems or issues with his wife, nor given any hint that he is prepared to increase an emotional attachment to you. Therefore, from what I can read, this seems to be in your opinion, and from your perception. Well exactly.... It is all my perception. Based on his actions, could his feelings be strictly platonic? Can men & women just be friends with no complications? I just reread a thread I had posted about him back in April and I referred to him flirting with me in it. I had forgotten that he did that in the beginning. I don't view what he is doing now as flirting. Maybe my perception has changed? Or maybe his actions have changed and his only intent is a close work collegue? In which case I have nothing to worry about....
Author BurriedAlive Posted September 13, 2009 Author Posted September 13, 2009 Stop stop stop now. This was how I ended up getting into an A. Its great to bond with someone you work with and to have an ally but when you are speaking more than is necessary that is a danger sign. Its called work for a reason. And that much communication is not necessary for you to do your job well. Force youself to pull it back. You will miss the bond but its not worth sliding over the line. Its something that creeps up on you and before you know it, you have crossed the line. You are absolutely right jj33. It does creep up on you, doesn't it? That's why I am posting, I don't want that to happen. How long did you remain in the stage I am at now before you crossed the line? Do you see similarities in my story?
whichwayisup Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 Is this the same guy as before? Or a new MM?
Author BurriedAlive Posted September 13, 2009 Author Posted September 13, 2009 She is having the same affair with the same guy. She is still the other woman and doing NOTHING to stop it. Actually you are incorrect. I am not an OW with this guy. I was an OW three years ago and I believe that I deserve far more than that. As for me doing NOTHING to stop it, I believe the fact that I am posting asking for insight says that I am doing EVERYTHING I can to stop it...if there is even anything in the first place. Which brings me back to my original question.
jj33 Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 about 3 years with me actively limiting contact as much as possible. The problem is now 2 years after it ended, he acts as if we are in that stage again. You know its a problem. Just stop. Dont play with fire. If you let it continue you already know how the story ends.
Author BurriedAlive Posted September 13, 2009 Author Posted September 13, 2009 about 3 years with me actively limiting contact as much as possible. The problem is now 2 years after it ended, he acts as if we are in that stage again. You know its a problem. Just stop. Dont play with fire. If you let it continue you already know how the story ends. So you really don't think there is any way that he thinks of me as just his professional collegue and/or friend?
freestyle Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 There`s a remote chance of that.Maybe you could start setting the boundaries by not responding when he calls on weekends or evenings, unless it`s absolutely necessary for work. And the moment he tries to discuss any marital issues with you, shut it down by suggesting that he asks a marriage counseler. Don`t take the bait , there is a chance that he`s testing the waters with you.
jj33 Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 I would try shutting down the weekend and evening calls to the extent that they are not necessary. Just tell him you have your hands full with your son and could you talk Monday. Be polite dont assume when you speak to him his motives are improper. Yes its possible that he considers you just a friend but that is only because you think it could be more. Lets face it if you werent open to it on some level, you wouldnt care. You would just speak to him and if he ever crossed the line you would shut him down. Since you are asking it means YOU arent clear about it. So for your own sake, no matter what he thinks, create distance.
whichwayisup Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 Question is, what do YOU want out of this? Would YOU tell him NO, you're married and I've been the OW before and I ain't going down this road again..That is, if he opened up and made a pass at you or told you he had feelings for you. If you want to see how he'll react, possibly get your answer, tell him, "Let's all go out to dinner, I'd love to meet your wife..I'd feel more comfortable if she knew me, that way there's no confusion that we're 'just friends'.. See how he reacts.
Author BurriedAlive Posted September 13, 2009 Author Posted September 13, 2009 Question is, what do YOU want out of this? Would YOU tell him NO, you're married and I've been the OW before and I ain't going down this road again..That is, if he opened up and made a pass at you or told you he had feelings for you. If you want to see how he'll react, possibly get your answer, tell him, "Let's all go out to dinner, I'd love to meet your wife..I'd feel more comfortable if she knew me, that way there's no confusion that we're 'just friends'.. See how he reacts. Good suggestion. Thanks WWIU!
Author BurriedAlive Posted September 13, 2009 Author Posted September 13, 2009 Oh, much better! Not sure what has made you so angry but this is really not the place to be venting your anger.
whichwayisup Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 Good suggestion. Thanks WWIU! You're welcome. But, what do YOU want out of this BA? A real honest and platonic friendship? Or a friendship that is hidden, and in secret, one that thrives without his wife's knowledge and is selfish/self serving. I honestly am not sure why you would allow yourself to get close to (another) married man, since you were an OW before. Anyway, ask to meet his wife - But be prepared for any answer. If he says sure, I think that's a great idea, then chances are, he isn't "into" you that way, but if he balks at your idea, then you probably have your answer.. And that would be a sign to distance yourself and detach. Find single men to be friendly with and also women..That way there's NO chance of an affair, either an EA or PA starting.
jj33 Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 Actually I dont think being friends with an MM at work is such a bad thing (about 99.9% of the people I work with are married) so long as you know your own boundaries and are comfortable asserting them if someone crosses the line. Speaking to a single male colleague very frequently can pose a similar set of problems if you dont know the boundaries and they are more likely to think that you might be intersted in them on a personal level. I agree with WWIU ask to meet his W if you think there is more there. But the real issue is within you. Buried I dont want to push but you never answered WWIUs question. Do you have personal feelings for him? If you are going to lunch etc there is bound to be some personal conversation. Make sure you are comfortable with wha you want and that subsconsciously you are not harboring feelings for him before you spend more time with him. Its natural to feel attracte to married people from time to time, the important thing if you dont want to be in an A is to recognize your feelings and then keep your distance from that person if you dont trust yourself. If you are clear about your feelings then his agenda doesnt matter.
LakesideDream Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 Friendship is an important part of life. If your male friend is always appropriate, and you are always appropriate what's the problem. You obviously are a professional, working away from home. Do you want to limit your possibilities for success by not participating in business friendships and alliances? Half the world is the opposite sex. Only you know how you feel about your "friendship" with the man. If there is more on your side that just wholesome friendship, back away. If he does something untoward, back off. There really aren't hidden agendas in every friendship.
SadandConfusedWA Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 Honestly, I do not see anything in here to indicate that his interest is more than professional. I am not sure how things are where you work, but where I work, people often complete some work from home and call and e-mail outside of business hours. They also call multiple times during the day. Of course most of the talk is work related but it's normal to exchange some small talk or pleasantries. Is this guy a good communicator? Does he talk and get along with lots of people? I think you are reading more into it than there is. Some people have that style of interacting - to ensure a good business relationship.
misternoname Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 One word answer to your question...YES!
freestyle Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 If you want to know whether this is something on the up and up or inappropriate/leading to inappropriate why not simply ask him if his wife knows about your friendship? If he answers yes, then ask him about her. Ask him her name, etc... make this 'friendship' inclusive of his actual real life. If he answers 'no', then you have a pretty good idea that he's doing what I would call 'gardening'. He's having a non sexual relationship with you that goes outside of the boundaries of simply work... it bleeds into your personal time... eg., weekends. This throws up a red flag that this is more than work associates who are friends. This may be his gradual entry into what he already wants... has already decided he wants... which is an affair. I had this guy who began telling me about his problems with his wife. His inquiries about me personally began to get increasingly personal. I began to see that he was forming an interest and attachment to me through the dialogue. I told him that I would continue speaking with him unless he told his wife and asked that his wife email me or call me telling me that she knew about it and that she was okay with it... before I'd continue. As the conversations continued he'd evade my questions regarding his wife being informed. Then he said that he like having me as his 'friend'. That it helped him... he looked forward to talking with me... that he wanted more time to talk with me. Even though I enjoyed speaking with him I knew that anything that cannot be done in front of the spouse and/or without the spouse's knowledge is deception. And... I wanted no part of it. He wouldn't 'deal' with bringing our 'friendship' out in the open. I ended all communication with him. Hey, I'm an adult woman. At a minimum if someone wants to be 'friends' then they owe me transparency as to their motivations. If he cannot do this with his wife's knowledge then you are having an EA with him and IMO a prelude to a full blown affair. ..this should be printed on a giant billboard in bold letters for all the world to see. Lovely, if people followed your example..........well, I think there would be much less posting in this particular forum. I tip my hat to you...............................................
Author BurriedAlive Posted September 14, 2009 Author Posted September 14, 2009 Buried I dont want to push but you never answered WWIUs question. Do you have personal feelings for him? If I am being truly honest yes I am starting to develop feelings for him. I often say to myself things like "gee, I wish he were single." Having said that, my integrity and previous lessons learned are stronger than my feelings for him. I will not cross the line as long as he is married. It is as simple as that. I totally agree with that it is all about what I feel. I can only control me, right?
Author BurriedAlive Posted September 14, 2009 Author Posted September 14, 2009 Honestly, I do not see anything in here to indicate that his interest is more than professional. I am not sure how things are where you work, but where I work, people often complete some work from home and call and e-mail outside of business hours. They also call multiple times during the day. Of course most of the talk is work related but it's normal to exchange some small talk or pleasantries. Is this guy a good communicator? Does he talk and get along with lots of people? I think you are reading more into it than there is. Some people have that style of interacting - to ensure a good business relationship. Yes he is a very good communicator. Most men that I know are not (not to generalize but my romantic involvements in the past have all been pretty much been terrible at it). This may be what is attractive about this guy. And this could very well be all in my head. Maybe his intentions are strictly professional. The only thing that tells me that they aren't is the fact that I am the person he talks the most to. I am the one he calls when he needs advice or someone to talk to.... This is the smoke that is leading me to the fire.
Author BurriedAlive Posted September 14, 2009 Author Posted September 14, 2009 If you want to know whether this is something on the up and up or inappropriate/leading to inappropriate why not simply ask him if his wife knows about your friendship? If he answers yes, then ask him about her. Ask him her name, etc... make this 'friendship' inclusive of his actual real life. If he answers 'no', then you have a pretty good idea that he's doing what I would call 'gardening'. He's having a non sexual relationship with you that goes outside of the boundaries of simply work... it bleeds into your personal time... eg., weekends. This throws up a red flag that this is more than work associates who are friends. This may be his gradual entry into what he already wants... has already decided he wants... which is an affair. Hey, I'm an adult woman. At a minimum if someone wants to be 'friends' then they owe me transparency as to their motivations. If he cannot do this with his wife's knowledge then you are having an EA with him and IMO a prelude to a full blown affair. Based on what you and WWIU are saying, I think my answer lies with his reaction if I were to bring up his wife. So, this week I am going to make up a point of bringing her up. Maybe it is as easy as saying something like "Gee, I wonder what W thinks of all this talking we do..." Thanks for the advice!
jj33 Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 NO NO NO NO NO NO By putting it that way you are being flirtatious and suggesting that your talk is somehow improper. If you concede that you view it that way while continuing to engage in teh behavior, then you are telling him teh door is open, but Im going to be coy about it. Mention his W saying gee she sounds great Id love to meet her sometime. Or did your W enjoy your vacation or something to that effect. POSITIVE and putting you and his W on the same team. What you were were going to say suggests that you and this guy are somehow conspiring in a way that might displease his W. You are attracted to this man. Distance yourself now or you may find your boundaries are severely tested. We've been there done that got the Tshirt starred in the TV series. Dont put yourself in harms way.
LakesideDream Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 How is your "friendship" with your married woman these days. (No sarcasm). I haven't seen or communicated with her in any way for 5 months. I decided it was best to let it go. Anything else ran the risk of hurting her, or damaging her life. There is no "friendship". Frankly there never will be a "friendship" like the OP may have. I wouldn't even try to be "only friends" with a former lover, someone I am/was in love with. That's more torture than I can endure. Thanks for asking.
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