conehead Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 Just wondering, if 2 people know each other as friends first for say at least 6 months before they get together as lovers, do you think there is a higher chance of it working out? I mean, by then they would have known each other much more before they even started dating. Granted, people knowing each other as friends is very different from people knowing each other as lovers, but I mean wouldn't it at least beat out the initial infatuation stage which makes people think they are in love when in fact it's just a phase before they see someone's true colors.
carhill Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 Not a universal truth, but, as a 50 year old man who has had many female friends, I can tell with absolute certainty that no romance has ever grown out of friendship in carhill's lifetime. I've come to the conclusion that women are just not wired that way, as well as, if they find a man attractive, they want him right now and will not wait for one minute or one day or one week. They want what they want and not getting what they want is total rejection and a good reason for the man to die.
Thaddeus Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 Personally, as soon as I hear/read the phrase, "Friends first," I head for the hills. I see it as a power-play in the beginning stages of a relationship, whereby one person essentially is saying, "If you do A, B and C in the right order at the right time and if I'm in the right frame of mind - oh, and by the way, you have no idea what A, B and C are - then I might consider something more meaningful. Jump through hoops, boy, jump through hoops!" I perceive it as just another type of game, and as such I have no time or patience for it. YMMV.
carhill Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 "I have sex with my female friends. Happy to be your friend"
Author conehead Posted September 11, 2009 Author Posted September 11, 2009 No, I mean not to actually tell a guy I want to be friends first. But I mean say for people who meet at church and they know each other for a long time before the guy actually makes the move to ask the girl out. Or people who work together for instance and only took the plunge into romance when they felt it was worth it, knowing that it would be awkward if they ever broke up. I'm talking about cases of natural friendships that evolve into romance.
carhill Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 I'll rephrase: No woman I have ever known for a long time has ever been interested in a romantic relationship with me. Even those women where the dynamic was platonic on both sides in the beginning. Even acquaintances. It just hasn't happened. By 'women I have ever known', I mean a woman whose name I know, even if I know little to nothing about her life. We're familiar. Read my prior post for the reasoning I'll add that there have been instances where I believed such had happened, but, in fact, the interaction was merely 'faking' for an ego feed for the woman. Men deal with this all the time. I usually catch it before I get hurt but sometimes not.
looking4 green grass Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 I was "friends" with my current boyfriend for a few months before we started "dating" and doing all the kissie/huggie type of stuff. But, there was A LOT of flirting, so the intent seemed clear from the beginning.
Els Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 It does happen for some people, yes. Otherwise how do you explain the kids who grow up together in grade school and then suddenly become bf/gf? Granted such puppy love doesn't generally last very long. But I guess it is possible. It's happened for me before; although USUALLY even if it was only friendship at the beginning, we both kinda already felt some sort of connection, but simply didn't pursue it due to various reasons (studies/work, one or both in a relationship at the moment, etc). I think this is one of those questions to which most women will say yes and most men will say no.
sweetjasmine Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 It's happened for me before; although USUALLY even if it was only friendship at the beginning, we both kinda already felt some sort of connection, but simply didn't pursue it due to various reasons (studies/work, one or both in a relationship at the moment, etc). This is basically what it was like for me and my current SO. We were friendly for a few months, both casually dating other people, and after all that fell through, we noticed we both had a thing for each other and started talking more and flirting. Neither of us expected it to happen, especially since it seems so rare.
sumdude Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 It's happened to me a few times. I was usually surprised, not knowing the girls were hot for me then one day boom! They we're all over me. None of those relationships lasted and I stayed friends or at least friendly with most of them.
Sam Spade Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 I don't think that "friends first" is a realistic scenario. BUT: a lukewarm start of dating/a relationship may and often does develop into a great relationship as you get to know each other etc. It is also a matter of temperament - I've never been, and don't want to ever be, "infatuated" by anyone, and I'm not even sure that this is particularly healthy or helpful in relationships.
You'reasian Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 Just wondering, if 2 people know each other as friends first for say at least 6 months before they get together as lovers, do you think there is a higher chance of it working out? I mean, by then they would have known each other much more before they even started dating. Granted, people knowing each other as friends is very different from people knowing each other as lovers, but I mean wouldn't it at least beat out the initial infatuation stage which makes people think they are in love when in fact it's just a phase before they see someone's true colors. The infatuation phase is important. Its a springboard for the relaionship - because if it works out and the relationship matures - you are going to fall deeply in love with this man and he will fall deeply in love with you. Without that springboard, it becomes a hard sell later if one person thinks of you as "friends" while another one thinks more. You've got to get it while its hot! You are concerned about falling for someone without seeing who they are. Flirt hard and frequently so that this person knows there's something (or not) and then smoothly transition into subjects that are more personality-based or values based. Talk to him, see what he believes etc.
AlektraClementine Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 Not a universal truth, but, as a 50 year old man who has had many female friends, I can tell with absolute certainty that no romance has ever grown out of friendship in carhill's lifetime. I've come to the conclusion that women are just not wired that way, as well as, if they find a man attractive, they want him right now and will not wait for one minute or one day or one week. They want what they want and not getting what they want is total rejection and a good reason for the man to die. This is true in my experience. Especially the part in bold. I have this friend (long time) who's always been into me. He always had a critical word for me when it came to my dating habits. Never understood why I chose the men I did. He implied that I was somehow misguided in choosing to date them and not him. What he did not understand was that I was not attracted to him. I don't think this scenario is any different when the gender roles are reversed.
Pedigree Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 To me the friends first gives way to infatuation after a few weeks and that's when I try to approach her. It took me a few times before I realized that reality is against me on this one because by the time I try to approach her, I've already established myself in that dreaded zone. It just honestly takes time for me to warm up to people and that includes potential dates.
carhill Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 IMO, for both genders, if there isn't attraction at the beginning, even if dating doesn't start right away, there never will be. It's just a part of the human sexual cycle. The efficiency is finding out as soon as possible so as not to waste time on a dead hole (no pun intended). This can be noted most poignantly in people who meet while otherwise attached. Something is sensed, but no action is taken nor attraction explored due to the previous commitments. It is possible, later, if those R's are over, for that attraction to blossom, even if the parties have been 'friends' off and on over the intervening time. One or both is aware that something was/is there.
Maxis Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 Mmmm...I can see good points in the posts before this one...but my personal experience is a little different. My girlfriend and I were best friends for 6 years before we got together...granted we both always had feelings for eachother for most of those years...but we're both rather shy people. Anyways...we've now been together for almost a year, and we love each other more everyday. If you ask me...it really depends on the people and answers to your question have to be different case by case.
loveslife Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 If they asked me, I could write a book...about the way you walk and whisper and look...how to make two lovers of friends... (from "Pal Joey") And the simple secret of the plot is just to tell them that I love you a lot.... (again, from "Pal Joey") Okay, getting serious I have been thinking about this very topic today. For me, I've been thinking about how disastrous some of my best friendships became when the issue of sex reared its ugly head. I'd have to agree that the attraction needs to be there from the beginning. At least in my experience, it just doesn't suddenly appear. I had a LTR with a guy I was friends with first but there was immediate attraction. He had a girlfriend who was a friend of a friend and nothing happened until down the road after they already broke up. But "it" was there from the beginning. Side note: I think it's easier to go from lovers to platonic friends than the other way around, if there's no chemisty along the way. Soooo many times I have lost male friends because, in spite of how much I wanted to want them, I just couldn't. It brought out something horrible in them when I couldn't take that step. Just my experiences.... <sigh>
carhill Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 It brought out something horrible in them when I couldn't take that step. Yeah, it's called rationalization of rejection of the essential psyche Pretty ugly shyte sometimes, if the guy doesn't process emotion well....
loveslife Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 Yeah, it's called rationalization of rejection of the essential psyche Pretty ugly shyte sometimes, if the guy doesn't process emotion well.... In all seriousness, carhill, I've been chewing on this very question today. Are you saying they rationalize it by deciding I'm a bad person instead of processing the rejection and moving on?
carhill Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 If you perceive their response as filled with negative emotion, then, IMO, it is a rationalization that you are evil incarnate for rejecting them and they should have never wasted a breath of stink-filled air on your rotting carcass of a life. Get it? A healthy man will go, to himself, 'ouch', smile and move on. I'm an expert at that, from long experience. It hurt more when I was younger.
loveslife Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 If you perceive their response as filled with negative emotion, then, IMO, it is a rationalization that you are evil incarnate for rejecting them and they should have never wasted a breath of stink-filled air on your rotting carcass of a life. Get it? A healthy man will go, to himself, 'ouch', smile and move on. I'm an expert at that, from long experience. It hurt more when I was younger. Yeah, I get it. It feels pretty horrible to have someone so devoted to you one minute and then disgusted by you the next. For me, each time I've been in this type of situation I have genuinely tried to see them as a romantic partner. Have wanted to see them that way. I remember this one guy. Loved him with all my heart but the thought of kissing him just repulsed me. And he was attractive. I just couldn't see him that way. That guy asked me to take our relationship from friends to romantic. I told him I needed time to think about it. A month later I called after much thinking to tell him no. He had gotten a call in the meantime from an old flame. They were back together. That was a relief actually. But then he tried putting moves on me a few times when we were drunk in spite of the fact that he was with this woman. It was terrible. We had been great friends for 13 years by then and it all just came crashing down. Ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
dreamergrl Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 But if you are friends for 6 months at least, how often would you want to chance ruining the friendship, when it may not work out?
carhill Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 Men take the chance (most won't play the 'friends' game, but I did many times and speak from experience) because, for them, intimacy and friendship with a female leads to sexual feelings. As sexual drives invoke some of the most powerful and primitive chemicals in the brain, so do they invoke similar emotions, some having nothing to do with love and tenderness. If a man can't process that in the context of "no, you're not now or ever going to have an orgasm in my body", you get the vitriol and venom and it happens immediately, like a switch.
loveslife Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 Thanks carhill, this has happened to me so many times and I've always wanted to understand. I think it's easier for guys to be friends with me if they've had sex with me, even if we're not having sex now. Is this a common experience? I've figured it's because their brains can process that they've conquered "that" so it's okay.
carhill Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 There is no mystery, no undiscovered territory; nothing fresh and challenging. I have no problem being friendly with my wife (stbx) and don't desire her at all sexually, even when I remember the breadth of our married sexual life. To the extent we share common interests (a fundamental basis for friendship), no problem.
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