ladydesigner Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 I am just curious as to what some of the answers are. Is it because the AP ended things? You really do love your H or W and think the marriage is worth salvaging...For the kids. What are some of the reasons out there? And also how it has worked out or not worked out. I am just trying to gain some insight.
2sure Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Marrying my H was , to me, the best decision of my life. Maybe the only really good decision. Marrying my H and being so happy made me feel that finally, life was paying off...that I must have done something good to deserve this life. When I realized I had married a cheating bastard...more than anything what I wanted out of staying with the marriage was: I wanted to not have been so very wrong. My H's infidelity is not affair based. He is a Narcissist. He doesnt care about the people he cheats with. He doesnt do it because the marriage is missing something. He just likes the attention and the distraction. Its nothing really personal I told myself, we can overcome this. Wrong again.
Author ladydesigner Posted September 10, 2009 Author Posted September 10, 2009 Marrying my H was , to me, the best decision of my life. Maybe the only really good decision. I felt the same way at the time and then came my H arrest for something I am unable to disclose which led us to move in with the in-laws (huge mistake) and then his infidelity and then my infidelity. Now I am left with do I REALLY love my husband? I really am not sure. I guess there are no guarantees in life what you thought at first to be a great decision can later be totally turned upside down. I kind of think of my marriage like once the milk has been opened and turns to curdled milk you cannot get that original milk back.
drmcdreamy Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 I am just curious as to what some of the answers are. Is it because the AP ended things? You really do love your H or W and think the marriage is worth salvaging...For the kids. What are some of the reasons out there? And also how it has worked out or not worked out. I am just trying to gain some insight. I've written about this a little elsewhere. For me, it comes down to this (this is my feelings, and my opinion, and I'm sure most people would disagree with me, and I'm just putting it out there like I see/feel it): I had the (good?/bad?) fortune of falling deeply in love with two different women - one being my wife of many years, and the other my eventual AP (and now xAP). Was/is either woman perfect? No. Am I? Sure as heck not. Was either relationship perfect? No. Was either a disaster? Not at all. I never felt like I wanted out of my marriage. I suppose (most would say) deep down maybe I was seeking something in the A that was "missing" from the marriage. Maybe I'm just totally selfish and wanted "more", even if nothing was missing. Maybe I just met someone who I fell in love with and who could have been my wife were it not for the fact that I earlier met someone else who I fell in love with and married. I still love my wife, eventhough I fell in love with someone else too. I still want to be married to her and to be the best husband I can be, despite my betrayal of my promise to her. In a sense I was lucky because my AP is divorced (twice) and entered the A knowing that she didn't want to see my marriage/family hurt. We decided to have a love affair with the mutual understanding that, although in a different universe it would be just the two of us, in this universe that couldn't happen and we would eventually end the A and move on with our lives. That happened when she met another (single) man, which of course stung me a bit. So, I guess I can put it like this: The perfect situation would've been for me to run myself through a cloning machine, and one of me could've stayed with my wife and family which I love and the other one could've gone on to marry the other woman I fell in love with. Since that wasn't going to happen, and since my AP and I had already fallen in love and decided that we wanted/needed to express that love for a while, there were a set of alternatives left (well basically two: we end the A, or I leave my wife/kids, because being in two relationships simultaneously wasn't fair to anyone and couldn't go on forever). My AP and I both realized that although neither option was perfect, the best option for everyone (her, me, my wife, my kids, our friends) would be for us to end the A and go our separate ways, so that's what we did (with some pain). Again, this is all predicated on my feeling that I was/am truly in love with two women simultaneously, and I'm sure that's where most of the fire at me is going to come from in the replies to this post.
2sure Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 I kind of think of my marriage like once the milk has been opened and turns to curdled milk you cannot get that original milk back. Yep. In reading some of the recent posts here from spouses who are struggling to forgive their WS and move on with the marriage.... Hearing about NOT regaining the love, the trust, the respect... I think that once a marriage has been beaten to death by something like multiple infidelities....staying together and hoping the marriage can be brought back to life... Brings to mind images from Steven King's Pet Cemetery. I mean ..you love and miss it but, what you get back aint the same.
drmcdreamy Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Now I am left with do I REALLY love my husband? I really am not sure. You were writing when I was! I guess that's the question: are you still in love (enough) to stay in the marriage. As I said, some people will say I'm F.O.S. for saying I still love my wife. I honestly feel I do, and always have, despite the fact that I did something horrible (either falling in love with another, or acting upon it, or both). If I really didn't love her, I probably would've left, and the would've been whether I were in an affair or not (i.e. I wouldn't have needed another to leave her for, I just would've left). I don't expect perfection from her or the marriage, because obviously I am the epitome of non-perfection, aren't I?
Author ladydesigner Posted September 10, 2009 Author Posted September 10, 2009 If I really didn't love her, I probably would've left, and the would've been whether I were in an affair or not (i.e. I wouldn't have needed another to leave her for, I just would've left). I don't expect perfection from her or the marriage, because obviously I am the epitome of non-perfection, aren't I? This is so true and I think that is why I have decided to stay. How long this will last only the future holds that answer. I know myself I am the epitome of non-perfection myself. I do like you idea of cloning though:laugh: Brings to mind images from Steven King's Pet Cemetery. I mean ..you love and miss it but, what you get back aint the same. 2sure I can just visualize this... so funny... maybe that is why I have such troubles being intimate with my husband...he has become someone else...but then so have I.
Sanafa Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 You know the more I read, and the more I think about what I truly believe, the more I believe I am happy to have the views I do. I really don't mean to knock anyone who has chosen to stay but we can see it with so many here. Love, intimacy, trust is glass... once it's broken.... you can glue it with a lot of help ( MC/IC/Friends and Family) but it's still broken and weak, no matter how long you keep it in tack.... it seldom gains strength and simply becomes scabbed over after years.... but what it once was is gone... and I personally don't think that is better for anyone. We keep it together because as hard as it is.... it is FAR harder to take a chance on yourself and be alone. I always thought this prior to my A and have seen more than I can count how many end up "happy" and "settling" It works for way too many. We see it here... even with extreme cases... we see the support of still keeping it together... you can do it. I don't want it.... I don't want that for the people in my life or for kids.... It's a choice... be true to yourself... or be true to everyone else... and if you choose the second, it is exactly what you are teaching everyone else to do.
Author ladydesigner Posted September 10, 2009 Author Posted September 10, 2009 It's a choice... be true to yourself... or be true to everyone else... and if you choose the second, it is exactly what you are teaching everyone else to do. Yes Sanafa I believe you are right in this. I grew up in a home like this and now I feel I am raising my own kids in this. I have some huge decisions to make in my near future. I almost feel I would be a lot happier alone and never get remarried.
drmcdreamy Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Maybe both you and Sanafa are saying the same thing ... we all have to make decisions in our life, and really that comes down to weighing the pros and cons of each choice, putting weight on various factors, and making a decision. We try to be rational the best we can. Unfortunately, emotions (especially love and lust) can make us irrational (such as having an affair -duh!), and there's some good stuff out there about how humans are irrationally rational (see "Predicatbly Irrational" by Dan Ariely - it's about how we trick ourselves into irrational choices - maybe now that I've had an A I should re-read it and see if any of it applies).
Sanafa Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Maybe both you and Sanafa are saying the same thing ... we all have to make decisions in our life, and really that comes down to weighing the pros and cons of each choice, putting weight on various factors, and making a decision. We try to be rational the best we can. Unfortunately, emotions (especially love and lust) can make us irrational (such as having an affair -duh!), and there's some good stuff out there about how humans are irrationally rational (see "Predicatbly Irrational" by Dan Ariely - it's about how we trick ourselves into irrational choices - maybe now that I've had an A I should re-read it and see if any of it applies). Yes, we normally do... at least I think:p And everyone is different... so if you and your W are full on in the relationship and don't have the 3rd ( in some cases 4th and 5th) in your bed with you.... then you are farther than most. I just think as I said earlier.. the past is the past... many hold on to the " marriage was this or that" and use it to get through..... it doesn't matter what it was.... what matters is what it really is... NOW
Sanafa Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Yes Sanafa I believe you are right in this. I grew up in a home like this and now I feel I am raising my own kids in this. I have some huge decisions to make in my near future. I almost feel I would be a lot happier alone and never get remarried. Random Question LD... have you done the MC? Just curious..... and sure I could find it somewhere here... but too lazy!
Author ladydesigner Posted September 10, 2009 Author Posted September 10, 2009 Yes, we normally do... at least I think LOL Yes Sanafa I identify with so much of what you say and it has helped me tremendously.
PhoenixRise Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Yes, we normally do... at least I think:p And everyone is different... so if you and your W are full on in the relationship and don't have the 3rd ( in some cases 4th and 5th) in your bed with you.... then you are farther than most. I just think as I said earlier.. the past is the past... many hold on to the " marriage was this or that" and use it to get through..... it doesn't matter what it was.... what matters is what it really is... NOW Sanafa This is not completely true. When you are a BS considering reconciling with a WS you do take into account the nature of the history of the relationship. In my case, my H and I had been together for 17 years, married for 7. Yes I took into accout the fact that the vast majority of those years together had been good years and that we had supported and loved each other through some very tough times along the way. His affair didn't negate any of this. I also took into accout the facts on the ground post dday. I took a hard look at the current state of our marriage. AND for awhile, I left the marriage. Nobody should just get through their marriage. If the reconciliation can't be real, it is better for everyone to just part in a respectful way. But some couples do acheive true reconciliation in spite of the NOW of the affair.
Sanafa Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Sanafa This is not completely true. When you are a BS considering reconciling with a WS you do take into account the nature of the history of the relationship. In my case, my H and I had been together for 17 years, married for 7. Yes I took into accout the fact that the vast majority of those years together had been good years and that we had supported and loved each other through some very tough times along the way. His affair didn't negate any of this. I also took into accout the facts on the ground post dday. I took a hard look at the current state of our marriage. AND for awhile, I left the marriage. Nobody should just get through their marriage. If the reconciliation can't be real, it is better for everyone to just part in a respectful way. But some couples do acheive true reconciliation in spite of the NOW of the affair. Sorry... when I said NOW... I didn't mean the affair... I meant what the relationship is in the here and now. And again... not all but SOOOO many.... use the past as the glue to hold it together. Past is gone, yes it is what it was.. and like I said early you can appreciate it and learn from it.... but you using that as the tool " I loved him/her once" I want this because I know what we HAD... to me is the wrong reason. And again depends on the A.... but seriously, how many here are still struggling for years after...... just because they are trying to recover what they had and everyone wants to cheer it on.
PhoenixRise Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Sorry... when I said NOW... I didn't mean the affair... I meant what the relationship is in the here and now. And again... not all but SOOOO many.... use the past as the glue to hold it together. Past is gone, yes it is what it was.. and like I said early you can appreciate it and learn from it.... but you using that as the tool " I loved him/her once" I want this because I know what we HAD... to me is the wrong reason. And again depends on the A.... but seriously, how many here are still struggling for years after...... just because they are trying to recover what they had and everyone wants to cheer it on. I agree with you here. I can not imagine still suffering the same level of pain years later and continuing to hold on to the marriage. I don't see people here as cheerleading the marriage so much...I see them as trying to advise people on the best ways to get what they say they want. AND I think if love is gone then it probaly doesn't come back but if day to day life or even more serious issues have buried the passion and connection that was always there....that can be recovered. Sometimes people aren't honest with themselves about which situation they are dealing with.
Author ladydesigner Posted September 10, 2009 Author Posted September 10, 2009 Sanafa my H and I were in MC a couple of times. It was during my A so my judgement was very clouded. We need to try again. It is necessary.
2.50 a gallon Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 I just cannot see why anyone would stay. She was the first that I had been able to truly fall in love with and wanted to start a family with. She had yet to cheat when I caught her kissing the OM, presto Marriage was OVER. Alone, yep I was going to alone again. It had taken her over 2 years to really get me happily hooked and I knew I might never feel that way again. I knew I could never trust her again, and it would have taken past forever for me to feel that way again with her. I truly so badly wanted our marriage to work, this was the happiest I had ever been, learning how to share my life, and preparing to have a family. Also it was a relief as I always felt that as a sex partner she was nowhere near the top. I wasn't frustrated with our sex life, just knew that there were better partners out there. I have wondered a couple of times, had she have been in the upper tier of sex partners, would I have stayed? I don't think so, as my biggest problem was shaking the sexual images of them. Which makes me wonder, how does the BS cope with the sexual images? Does the BS stay, because they know their WS is great in bed.
datura_noir Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 Sanafa, It seems to me that you are starting to become very jaded and pessimistic towards marriage and relationships in general, because of your experiences. While this is a perfectly normal stage for you to be going through, it does not look good for you to be asking in this forum why people stay in their marriages for whatever reason. Some of us simply love our partners and want to grow old with them. A fairytale relationship is only achieved in Hollywood (or Bollywod) movies. Please don't ever underestimate the power of commitment to a love based in realities.....I only hope one day that you can heal and find happiness, whether it be alone or with a partner.
Sanafa Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 Sanafa, It seems to me that you are starting to become very jaded and pessimistic towards marriage and relationships in general, because of your experiences. While this is a perfectly normal stage for you to be going through, it does not look good for you to be asking in this forum why people stay in their marriages for whatever reason. Some of us simply love our partners and want to grow old with them. A fairytale relationship is only achieved in Hollywood (or Bollywod) movies. Please don't ever underestimate the power of commitment to a love based in realities.....I only hope one day that you can heal and find happiness, whether it be alone or with a partner. I find it sad and disappointing and many are happy to hop over to the OW forum with opinions... I don't see the difference between either really. I believe in love, very much..... I also believe in commitment. What I don't believe in is the length we go to manipulate others in the name of love. Not jaded.... just my take on what I have continuously read here and other boards... it is a ongoing circle..... with almost always the same outcome. I love life.... and love with all my heart.... more than capable and not afraid... but also not going to settle because the masses and call it commitment. Not fair to anyone.
bentnotbroken Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 Without any research, what you see here and on other boards are only the people who post or the people you know in RL. That leaves millions you don't know or how their marriages are after infidelity. Those that repair, rebuild and restore that never told anyone of what has gone on in their lives. Your views are valid to your experience. My views are valid to my experience, Owl's views are valid to his experience and so on. Your pessimistic look at love and life are based on( I don't know what) but my views of love and life are based on my faith and it isn't anywhere as dim and bleak as you perceive it.
Sanafa Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 Without any research, what you see here and on other boards are only the people who post or the people you know in RL. That leaves millions you don't know or how their marriages are after infidelity. Those that repair, rebuild and restore that never told anyone of what has gone on in their lives. Your views are valid to your experience. My views are valid to my experience, Owl's views are valid to his experience and so on. Your pessimistic look at love and life are based on( I don't know what) but my views of love and life are based on my faith and it isn't anywhere as dim and bleak as you perceive it. Your take on my views is that I think life and love is bleak? Anyone that knows me would laugh out loud at that. I love life and very much believe in love. Again, I just don't correlate what I see online to what I consider true love. And while I of course don't know the millions and millions.... most would say that there is a distinct correlation that can be drawn from the numbers here to what actually happens in the real world. In fact one of the real benefits here is people will be open and honest because they are anonymous.... so perhaps even a truer perspective.
bentnotbroken Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 No truer than and anonymous survey conducted cross-culturally. Since we only talk about the western construct of what love is on these boards.
Mr. Lucky Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 I still love my wife, eventhough I fell in love with someone else too. I still want to be married to her and to be the best husband I can be, despite my betrayal of my promise to her. Since an affair - especially one that's more than just physical, you actually fall in love with the OW - involves a considerable investment in time, logistics and emotional energy, how do you convince yourself that you're trying to be "the best husband I can be" ??? Mr. Lucky
SidLyon Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 I wasn't going to post as I thought the question was addressed to WSs. As a BS I can give my views on why I think my H wants to stay married, but in the end it's just my take on it even though it's informed by what he tells me are the reasons why he wants to stay married to me rather than either leave or be with the OW. I feel that an OW who has been dumped in favour of the W is even less likely to be able to answer this question from the perspective of the WS. Her view is also informed by whatever the MM has told her about why he would rather stay married. It wouldn't surprise me if what the BW and the OW are being told is a bit different anyway. That's why I would rather hear it from the WSs themselves. Come on guys - this is something both BWs and OW are really interested in knowing - acknowledgment and thanks to those few WSs who have responded. S
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