Some Truths from a WS

[jennie-jennie]

What does Alberoni say happens when a relationship with your object of love is over...do the feeling fade or go away. Can those feeling be transferred to a new object?

 

Could you elaborate a bit on your question? Are you referring to your situation or in general? Remember the long excerpt I posted, it talks about this.

 

Your OW obviously ended your relationship because of self-preserving reasons. This should make it easier for her as well as for you to move on as opposed to if you had ended the relationship for altruistic reasons. I believe as time goes on, at least as long as you feel powerless to resume the relationship, your feelings for OW should fade and you should be able to transfer your feelings of love back to your wife or to a new love should you decide to end your marriage. This is totally just my own speculation trying to interpret Alberoni's theories, take it for what it is.

 

Alberoni also talks about love that is cut off because of circumstances beyond both partners' control. According to him, that love never vanishes. That is exactly what happened to MM and me. The moment we got in contact again after several decades of being apart, the relationship just exploded back into what it once was. And then, to realize we had even more in common as middle-aged people than we had as teenagers...

[silktricks]

That is exactly what happened to MM and me. The moment we got in contact again after several decades of being apart, the relationship just exploded back into what it once was. And then, to realize we had even more in common as middle-aged people than we had as teenagers...

 

I'm not trying to be nasty here, so please don't take this as anything other than a simple desire to understand (and being too lazy to read all of your prior posts)... but I don't understand why, if your relationship is true love as you describe, why doesn't he leave his wife to be with you?

[jennie-jennie]

I'm not trying to be nasty here, so please don't take this as anything other than a simple desire to understand (and being too lazy to read all of your prior posts)... but I don't understand why, if your relationship is true love as you describe, why doesn't he leave his wife to be with you?

 

Because he is torn between "doing the right thing", i e staying in the marriage, and our relationship.

 

I have spent much time trying to find the answer to this question myself, so I don't mind you asking. The above was the quick version of an answer. He is claiming he will make a decision, that he cannot go on like this forever. It is yet to be seen if that is the truth or not.

 

I truly do believe that it is simpler for women, love rules. For men, there are a lot of other elements in play.

[silktricks]

Because he is torn between "doing the right thing", i e staying in the marriage, and our relationship.

 

{snip}

 

I truly do believe that it is simpler for women, love rules. For men, there are a lot of other elements in play.

 

Well, though he cannot ask his wife, of course, I would bet that she would say that she doesn't want him if he no longer loves her.... (maybe not, but that's what I would say.. ).

 

Hmmmm, as for the other elements in play - maybe so, maybe not. Depends on the person. I don't think you can say women do (blank) and men do (blank), though. Depends on the woman - and the man...

[Sanafa]

Well, though he cannot ask his wife, of course, I would bet that she would say that she doesn't want him if he no longer loves her.... (maybe not, but that's what I would say.. ).

 

Hmmmm, as for the other elements in play - maybe so, maybe not. Depends on the person. I don't think you can say women do (blank) and men do (blank), though. Depends on the woman - and the man...

 

Silk... I agree that it is impossible to put people in the same pot... but I can't recall who said it (DI - maybe) when talking about who initiates divorce first - it is most often Woman.

 

And you can take from that what you want, but I know in our situation - his feelings of responsiblity, shame, guilt and love he does have for his family outweighed loving someone who fills you.

 

Let's face it.. When MM leave they are often labeled selfish/arrogant/"less than as a parent.... for giving the family up and on and on.

 

We make it very difficult for a man that has any integrity to not stay, regardless of what may be best for the two primary people ( M&W)

 

Not all situations..... but some and I think there are three categories

 

The MM who leaves and doesn't care what others say ( can't imagine how hard that is)

 

The MM who really wasn't invested in the A and has no problem returning to the M

 

and

 

The MM who is morally stronger than some would like to admit. Feels guilt, shame and yes- love for his family and cannot lay the axe down himself.

 

I believe this is my MM... and no one has to agree. I have said it before ... He loves me, He loves his wife, He loves his life and the extra's outweighed the initial 'loves" for either.

[jennie-jennie]

The MM who is morally stronger than some would like to admit. Feels guilt, shame and yes- love for his family and cannot lay the axe down himself.

 

I love that line! So true!

 

Well, though he cannot ask his wife, of course, I would bet that she would say that she doesn't want him if he no longer loves her.... (maybe not, but that's what I would say.. ).

 

I am not sure about that. MM believes that she is turning a blind eye to the situation. We did have a very minor Dday in the beginning of our relationship, where he gently steared her fears away. MM believes that she now does not want to look too closely, that she is content as long as he stays with her. She never was big on sex and cuddling, so she seems not to mind the abscence of that - all according to MM. I hope he is right, because I would not want her to suffer in a sexless marriage as I have done myself.

[MistyK]

I hope he is right, because I would not want her to suffer in a sexless marriage as I have done myself.

 

I find it hard to believe that she's ok with it. But really, would you WANT him to sleep with her so that she does not "suffer in a sexless marriage"??

[silktricks]

Silk... I agree that it is impossible to put people in the same pot... but I can't recall who said it (DI - maybe) when talking about who initiates divorce first - it is most often Woman.

 

I don't know who stated it here, either, but I've read this statistic as well.

 

And you can take from that what you want, but I know in our situation - his feelings of responsiblity, shame, guilt and love he does have for his family outweighed loving someone who fills you.

 

Let's face it.. When MM leave they are often labeled selfish/arrogant/"less than as a parent.... for giving the family up and on and on.

 

We make it very difficult for a man that has any integrity to not stay, regardless of what may be best for the two primary people ( M&W)

Well... not to split hairs, but women who leave are labelled the same way - and you might add b*tch to the list as well. Society will always apply labels - always has, always will. But as has also been stated here ad infinitum, "society" often does not know the root cause behind a break-up. Just because there is no OW standing beside him at the time of the divorce doesn't mean that there isn't one in the shadows. If someone leaves a marriage because it has deteriorated beyond help, those people usually are NOT labeled badly - whether men or women - in fact, quite often they are lauded.

 

Not all situations..... but some and I think there are three categories

 

The MM who leaves and doesn't care what others say ( can't imagine how hard that is)

 

The MM who really wasn't invested in the A and has no problem returning to the M

 

and

 

The MM who is morally stronger than some would like to admit. Feels guilt, shame and yes- love for his family and cannot lay the axe down himself.

 

I believe this is my MM... and no one has to agree. I have said it before ... He loves me, He loves his wife, He loves his life and the extra's outweighed the initial 'loves" for either.

You know the man, I don't. I would have nothing to base a disagreement upon.

[silktricks]

I hope he is right, because I would not want her to suffer in a sexless marriage as I have done myself.

 

?? I thought you'd never been married??? Or am I confused again???

[jennie-jennie]

I find it hard to believe that she's ok with it. But really, would you WANT him to sleep with her so that she does not "suffer in a sexless marriage"??

 

No, of course not. I consider it cheating if/when he has sex with her. Incidentally that is also the feeling he has. I want him to set her free, but that is not within my power. I just mean that I hope he is correct about her sex desire since I hope she suffers as little as possible. I do understand that our relationship can only be negative for her. There is just nothing I can do about it. Or am willing to do about it. I can't see anything wrong with two people loving each other. What is wrong is that he doesn't clear up his own business.

 

I am not saying either that she is okay with the situation. Just that she does not want to look too closely. What you don't see doesn't hurt you kind of approach. A form of denial.

[drmcdreamy]

Haven't been on in a while, and just read the whole thread.

 

I'm sorry I tried to help some BSs understand what a WS was feeling.

 

I apologize for offending all the people who responded to me who obviously are in perfect control of every emotion and action they have. I'm happy to know there are people out there who have never done any wrong, despite any circumstance in which they found themselves. I will hold your actions up as an example to follow, including kicking someone when they are down and struggling.

[PhoenixRise]

No, of course not. I consider it cheating if/when he has sex with her. Incidentally that is also the feeling he has. I want him to set her free, but that is not within my power. I just mean that I hope he is correct about her sex desire since I hope she suffers as little as possible. I do understand that our relationship can only be negative for her. There is just nothing I can do about it. Or am willing to do about it. I can't see anything wrong with two people loving each other. What is wrong is that he doesn't clear up his own business.

 

I am not saying either that she is okay with the situation. Just that she does not want to look too closely. What you don't see doesn't hurt you kind of approach. A form of denial.

 

JJ

 

If it is true that your MM had what you call a mild dday, I take that to mean the W was suspicious, and your MM "redirected" her, then this doesn not sound to me that she is just turning a blind eye or not looking too closely. Your MM is gaslighting her.

 

He is lying to her to make her think nothing is happening when she suspects that something IS happening.

 

She is not turning a blind eye...she is trusting her H. She doesn't know yet that he is not worthy of her trust.

[jennie-jennie]

I have never been an OW in a long term relationship.

 

When I married I was 'in love' and 'loved' the man who became my husband. My commitment wasn't to maintain a 'feeling' of being in love with him. Although that would be something absolutely wonderful, I am in agreement with you that one cannot 'commit' to how they will 'feel' for the rest of their life.

 

I did commit to 'love', honor and cherish, forsake all others, and have treated my relationship and the man with lovingkindness even when it wasn't returned. Being in love is cotton candy. Love is what you do for one another.

 

When I met my husband he was a man who didn't believe in himself. Now, he does. He told me that I taught him what love means. I stand beside him, we walk side by side, and when he needed help and couldn't stand I held him up. While that isn't cotton candy, it certainly is love... and romantic in a sort of complicated way....

 

It is okay to love and not be in love as long as you have not switched primary love objects and fallen in love with someone else. I could not stay with one man while loving another.

 

I am very loyal and tend to stay with my partner through thick and thin, probably longer than what is good for me, so I know what love means. If you think my life has been tough, you should see the life of my SOs. I did leave my first SO when he became mentally ill, because I felt my own mental health was threatened. Self preservation that was. I stayed way too long with my second SO. Finally I left him because it felt wrong to him to stay because of my relationship with MM. He knew of MM and wanted me to stay, but it felt wrong to me. I had entered into a relationship where I had become exclusive to MM.

[jennie-jennie]

?? I thought you'd never been married??? Or am I confused again???

 

Sorry, I should have said marriage/relationship. In my mind a long term relationship is like a marriage, thus my using the words interchangeably.

[jennie-jennie]

Haven't been on in a while, and just read the whole thread.

 

I'm sorry I tried to help some BSs understand what a WS was feeling.

 

I apologize for offending all the people who responded to me who obviously are in perfect control of every emotion and action they have. I'm happy to know there are people out there who have never done any wrong, despite any circumstance in which they found themselves. I will hold your actions up as an example to follow, including kicking someone when they are down and struggling.

 

LOL. Well written post.

[jennie-jennie]

JJ

 

If it is true that your MM had what you call a mild dday, I take that to mean the W was suspicious, and your MM "redirected" her, then this doesn not sound to me that she is just turning a blind eye or not looking too closely. Your MM is gaslighting her.

 

He is lying to her to make her think nothing is happening when she suspects that something IS happening.

 

She is not turning a blind eye...she is trusting her H. She doesn't know yet that he is not worthy of her trust.

 

He certainly was gaslighting her on the mild Dday, that is for sure.

[seren]

I think the thread title - Some truths from a WS says it all really. For the most part, the some truths are often too late for the BS and the OP. The only person who really knows what is happening in an A is the WS, often both OW/OM and BS are lied to to enable the A to continue. I believe that compartmentalising happens in most affairs, otherwise how does the MP deal with the guilt of lying? How many OW/OM have been told the A person doesn't sleep with BS, they rarely talk civily, or if they do it is about the kids, they stay for the kids, and equally how many BS are told on Dday that OP meant nothing, they were pursued, they never meant anything.

Lying to someone who trusts you with their heart is despicable, lying after being told there is no A and sharing love is hurtful, saying the M is a sham and maintaining a loving M relationship is cheap and patronising for the person believing the lies. I get why A's happen, but not how they continue for months or years.

[foreal]

Haven't been on in a while, and just read the whole thread.

 

I'm sorry I tried to help some BSs understand what a WS was feeling.

 

I apologize for offending all the people who responded to me who obviously are in perfect control of every emotion and action they have. I'm happy to know there are people out there who have never done any wrong, despite any circumstance in which they found themselves. I will hold your actions up as an example to follow, including kicking someone when they are down and struggling.

 

Feel free to kick me as I am down and struggling right now.

[eeyore1981]

Haven't been on in a while, and just read the whole thread.

 

I'm sorry I tried to help some BSs understand what a WS was feeling.

 

I apologize for offending all the people who responded to me who obviously are in perfect control of every emotion and action they have. I'm happy to know there are people out there who have never done any wrong, despite any circumstance in which they found themselves. I will hold your actions up as an example to follow, including kicking someone when they are down and struggling.

 

drmcdreamy, I apologized to you not only on this thread, but created a thread to again apologize to make sure you saw it.

I'll apologize again, because I meant it the first 2 times.

 

I'm sorry for lashing out. I understand you were offering yourself up to try to help those of us on the other side of an affair to find some answers we may not be able to get from our SO's who cheated. I was hurting so badly over this and at the end of my rope when I posted to you, however, my post was mean and uncalled for, and I am truly sorry. If I disagree with anything you say in the future, I will do it civally or keep my mouth shut.

[Spark1111]

drmcdreamy, I apologized to you not only on this thread, but created a thread to again apologize to make sure you saw it.

I'll apologize again, because I meant it the first 2 times.

 

I'm sorry for lashing out. I understand you were offering yourself up to try to help those of us on the other side of an affair to find some answers we may not be able to get from our SO's who cheated. I was hurting so badly over this and at the end of my rope when I posted to you, however, my post was mean and uncalled for, and I am truly sorry. If I disagree with anything you say in the future, I will do it civally or keep my mouth shut.

 

Drmcdreamy,

 

Sorry if you felt you were being kicked when you were down. I do not think that iis intended by most posters.

 

But I do hope you took with you the unbelievable pain felt by others who have been the victim of betrayal. Some have maybe found out only a few weeks or months ago and are still reeling in pain.

 

Please forgive them too.

 

Many OW/OM say they NEVER could imagine the pain they inflicted until it happened to them; when someone they loved and trusted betrayed them with another in secret.

 

Hell, they weren't even thinking of their significant other, or spouse at the time at all.

 

Hope you are doing okay.

[Sanafa]

I don't know who stated it here, either, but I've read this statistic as well.

 

Well... not to split hairs, but women who leave are labelled the same way - and you might add b*tch to the list as well. Society will always apply labels - always has, always will. But as has also been stated here ad infinitum, "society" often does not know the root cause behind a break-up. Just because there is no OW standing beside him at the time of the divorce doesn't mean that there isn't one in the shadows. If someone leaves a marriage because it has deteriorated beyond help, those people usually are NOT labeled badly - whether men or women - in fact, quite often they are lauded.

 

You know the man, I don't. I would have nothing to base a disagreement upon.

 

Sorry Silk.... you are right I should have said Affair person but it truly does go both ways... but you must admit... It makes it difficult for those to actually go with their heart.

 

I focused on the beating a MM takes, but I am certain it is just as bad for a W....

[HUFI]

I've been doing so much thinking and replaying of my experience and now that I'm 7 months out from DDAY and the end of the affair, I have a much clearer and focused sense of some truths associated with cheating. In no order here are some of my thoughts … Just some random thoughts as a person who told his IC that, "I had an affair, I own it, please help me."

 

 

Well, Samprez, I want to paraphrase the old saying of “I disagree with what you said but will fight to the death, your right to say it".

 

I think the key in this whole thread are the simple words which you started the thread off with, “”here are some of my thoughts””.

 

We, that would be you and I and everyone else here, the collective bunch of posters here at LS are entitled to our own thoughts and opinions on this subject. I dare anyone here to say that they have the "universal truth" to anything.

 

Hell, in recent weeks, I am starting to learn that my own heart and mind are not always my best friend either as I try to peel away the onion of intertwined thoughts, actions, emotions, fears, passions and destructive behaviors that brought me to this affair.

 

If there is one Universal truth common to all of us, it’s that we should all know and understand by now that the reality and the perception of the situation all depends on where you are in time, space and personal growth at any given day. Everyone here should understand that the BS, WS and OP all come to the affair at different stages at different times and we are also working our way beyond it at different speeds and perhaps, in different directions.

 

Given that each of us have a unique set of circumstances that brought us to this commonality of “ infidelity”, I would have imagined that we should stop the finger pointing and name calling and disrespect that is being shown to so many posters that hold a different viewpoint from the other one.

 

As I started to read this post (as a WS who needs help), I was dismayed at how fast we seem to attack others on this site. It’s not even the classic “I agree that we might disagree” but it seems to become personal, poster against poster, WS against BS and so on.

 

Each of us, BS, WS and OP comes to these threads looking for something. It could be to vent, it could be to gain understanding, it could be to learn something for personal growth but I am sure that most of us did not come here to be attacked for our thoughts and feelings.

 

May I suggest that Venting be done on threads that are clearly marked as BS , OP or WS venting and that way, the ones who are still desperately seeking help will not have to wade past so much hatred and disrespect and attacking and vilification and crap!

 

And now that I have vented, I think I will leave and curl up with a good book instead.

 

Nuff said.

 

PS. I agree with the Fog, I also agree that the existence of it does not provide an excuse, I think it’s merely the camouflage to the reason.