Some Truths from a WS

[samprez]

I've been doing so much thinking and replaying of my experience and now that I'm 7 months out from DDAY and the end of the affair, I have a much clearer and focused sense of some truths associated with cheating. In no order here are some of my thoughts.

 

• The Fog of the Affair: This doesn't exist. The feelings that AP's have for one another are real. The concept that somehow one is in a fog is simply an excuse to cover up the fact that the AP's fell for one another. Having wrestled with this concept in IC, there is no way I would allow myself to believe that for almost a year I functioned in a fog. I went to work, coached my kids teams, did my community work, went to family events and all the while I was engaged in my relationship. The "Fog" suggests that the people have lost their capacity to make sound decisions. Amazingly, I was able to function perfectly in all aspects of my life while having a girlfriend.
  
• That it is one AP's fault more than the other. Bunk. Both parties have to participate to make this work. Since the entire thing resides in secret, there is noway one person can sustain this while the other is simply a victim. No way. Both people are engaged in deception and feelings. There is equal ownership.
  
• The conflict of having been involved like this doesn't go away easily. NC helps and of course that is more likely out of fear than because the "fog" has lifted. The reality is that almost everyone who enters NC is doing so because they have been caught. It is a difficult thing to do and to reconsile with. If you are the BS, expect that there will be moments when your S; who I bet is working hard, has moments when they are thinking about what happened. It's natural. It's very unnatural as people to simply severe ties with any person you have strong feelings for and expect it to end overnight. This doesn't mean that NC is broken because your mind wanders.
  
• BS, you will NEVER know everything. It's not because you didn't ask the right questions or your WS wasn't being honest, but you just can't imagine what is said and exchanged between AP's. It's devestating and I didn't realize this until I experienced my triggers this summer. There were things I forgot about that remind me of words that were shared with the AP. The are intimate and hurtful to the BS. And frankly, not everything needs to be known. I've been reading and engaging on this site for about a year, and while trust and transparency is needed, repeating and sharing every word is not. The things that really break the trust bond aren't often the things you would think.
  
• The AP's are responsible to each other for the outcome of their actions. I believe if my AP ends up divorced because of our affair, I damn well own that. And cheater (me included) who doesn't think they have a direct impact on their partners life going forward is wrong. No matter NC or not, you were engaged in an affair with a married person, you own the outcome.
  
• Lastly. If you have an affair, you lose control of what happens next in your life. There are no statutes of limitations. For example, if my MOW's H ever really finds out what happens, and chooses to respond for himself, I have zero control of that. I made that decision when I decided to have a relationship with his wife. She did the same with my wife. So when my wife emailed her H this year, what else could she expect; reasonably.
  

Just some random thoughts as a person who told his IC that, "I had an affair, I own it, please help me."

[Owl]

And as a BS in a successfully recovered marriage, I'd agree with some of your points...and flat out call bunk on others.

 

-No one says that NC is an instant cure. It's not. It takes time and effort to 'grieve' the loss of the relationship.

 

-You may not believe you were "foggy"...what does your wife say, what do your friends say? I can say that my wife clearly changed during her affair...and her focus, her decisions, her actions were ALL skewed and influenced by her affair.

 

-A BS doesn't need to know everything...but in order for trust to be rebuilt, they have to believe that the WS is willing to share everything. If the WS continues to "hold out", or "protect the OM/OW"...then they're simply preventing the trust from being rebuilt. It's that simple...you have to change the behaviors (the deception and dishonesty) and you have to prove that change to your BS, or the trust will NOT come back.

[Sanafa]

You won't be popular here, but I like the honesty - refreshing.

 

My MM just said to me.... " I am still me, just acting differently"

 

Acting is choice..... and is feed by MC's/IC's/Family and everyone involved in trying to keep the vase together. The truth.....yep, still him and while I do believe he is trying to work on his marriage...... the only thing that has changed is his choice to work on the marriage and do as he is told.

 

And thank you for clearing up the Fog ( again --- how is it when someone says " I etc etc) everyone says'..... well that's not what your W/IC would say... no, but it's HIS truth as he still sees it almost a year later.

 

And a big reason why BS can't be 100% honest.......

 

Also sounds like you have stayed and doing what you can to rebuild your marriage......tough work but personally I think the honesty with yourself will help that a great deal.

[Chrome Barracuda]

And as a BS in a successfully recovered marriage, I'd agree with some of your points...and flat out call bunk on others.

 

-No one says that NC is an instant cure. It's not. It takes time and effort to 'grieve' the loss of the relationship.

 

-You may not believe you were "foggy"...what does your wife say, what do your friends say? I can say that my wife clearly changed during her affair...and her focus, her decisions, her actions were ALL skewed and influenced by her affair.

 

-A BS doesn't need to know everything...but in order for trust to be rebuilt, they have to believe that the WS is willing to share everything. If the WS continues to "hold out", or "protect the OM/OW"...then they're simply preventing the trust from being rebuilt. It's that simple...you have to change the behaviors (the deception and dishonesty) and you have to prove that change to your BS, or the trust will NOT come back.

 

That's right if you continue to lie about the affair, the marriage may not recover anyways. It looks like your still protecting the affair partner.

 

And let me tell you something those feelings you had in the affair was real, well tell your wife that and lets' see if she'll let you slide knowing she's having sloppy seconds.

 

No one wants a man who's able to actually rationalize away the affair. You havent owned anything, and dont seem remorseful for your actions. If your marriage has any marriage your gonna have to dig deep. Stop being so defensive and feel something besides the thing between your legs for once in your life.

[samprez]

And as a BS in a successfully recovered marriage, I'd agree with some of your points...and flat out call bunk on others.

 

-No one says that NC is an instant cure. It's not. It takes time and effort to 'grieve' the loss of the relationship.

 

-You may not believe you were "foggy"...what does your wife say, what do your friends say? I can say that my wife clearly changed during her affair...and her focus, her decisions, her actions were ALL skewed and influenced by her affair.

 

-A BS doesn't need to know everything...but in order for trust to be rebuilt, they have to believe that the WS is willing to share everything. If the WS continues to "hold out", or "protect the OM/OW"...then they're simply preventing the trust from being rebuilt. It's that simple...you have to change the behaviors (the deception and dishonesty) and you have to prove that change to your BS, or the trust will NOT come back.

 

Owl, you're one of my buds out here. Not suggesting not willing, just that there is so much data that it's overwhelming.

 

Regarding the fog, my wife says I seemed totally fine and couldn't believe I was lying like I was. I knew exactly what I was doing during the affair. No excuses.

[samprez]

That's right if you continue to lie about the affair, the marriage may not recover anyways. It looks like your still protecting the affair partner.

 

And let me tell you something those feelings you had in the affair was real, well tell your wife that and lets' see if she'll let you slide knowing she's having sloppy seconds.

 

No one wants a man who's able to actually rationalize away the affair. You havent owned anything, and dont seem remorseful for your actions. If your marriage has any marriage your gonna have to dig deep. Stop being so defensive and feel something besides the thing between your legs for once in your life.

 

CB. You're totally wrong and you only read this from your screwed point of view. Do you think it's possible to actually sit down and recall every conversation I had with my OW. No way. It's not be deceitful. I did tell my wife the feelings were real and that I was sorry for it. You expect a robotic lie to make your point? I know exactly how I felt for the OW and why I did what I did.

 

Nothing will satisfy you until all WS are divorced and miserable.

[Snowflower]

Thanks, Samprez for sharing. I like your honesty - I remember reading your other posts from a few months ago.

 

I like how you 'owned' what you did. It says a lot for your character. If everyone involved in an affair (sometimes even the BS) can 'own' their part of it then at least there can be some understanding reached, whatever it is.

 

All I will say as a BS is that not all WS have the same feelings about their AP's. Samp, your feelings and reflections show some real insight to how some WS feel but not everyone is the same.

[samprez]

That's right if you continue to lie about the affair, the marriage may not recover anyways. It looks like your still protecting the affair partner.

 

And let me tell you something those feelings you had in the affair was real, well tell your wife that and lets' see if she'll let you slide knowing she's having sloppy seconds.

 

No one wants a man who's able to actually rationalize away the affair. You havent owned anything, and dont seem remorseful for your actions. If your marriage has any marriage your gonna have to dig deep. Stop being so defensive and feel something besides the thing between your legs for once in your life.

 

And one more thing CB. I haven't stopped feeling remorseful and sad over what I did to my wife. How dare you make assumptions from my posting here. I was suggesting that there are lies other WS tell and that they are not real. This stuff doesn't simply go away. Get it!!!

[NOTSURE7]

As a Ws 2 months from dday i can definetely contribute to this post...

 

first off i agree that there is no such thing as a fog and that a fog is just a cop out, but i will also agree that you do make decisions and choices during the affair that are solely based on being in deep,i functioned perfectly too and for the most part i put my family first,yes i did have guilt but really that was bs because i continued to deceive and live the lie for my own self gain..cheating is a concious choice made by a selfish individual who cares only about themselves,its a need and its self centered and you disregard anyone but yourself and that pretty much sums up someone who engages in an affair(me included).

 

nc is a must and by going nc it gives you the real chance to make decisions without being influenced by the feelings the affair brought you, is it the cure,no but its certainly an extremely positive step,for me personally having gone nc has helped me immensely,along with ic and nc and talking everyday to my wife..but nc is not the final solution it is only a step in the long process and a step that allows you to free yourself from the affair.

 

as far as a bs knowing everything, i agree you have to be willing to tell them if you are truly in this to recover your marriage and make it stronger in the future,if you are just in it to do what your told then it really makes no difference..

 

at the end of the day you need to take responsibility for yourself and not blame everyhing and anything for you having the A, i confessed to my W because i could no longer live the lie, i wanted her to have an honest idea of who i am and make informed decisions on how she wants to live her life ,going forward, throught the tears and heartbreak and devastation i caused by my selfishness we are building a strong,real and true relationship now., this is the only way to do things and part of that is being open to tell her everything if she asks.

 

i dont agree that you are responsible for what happens to your ap and that your are responsible for the outcome of your ap's life... the truth is you are 2 grown people engaging in the ultimate betrayal and deception,making your own decisions along the way, nobody put you here except yourself and you only have yourself to blame, so if your marriage or your ap's marriage goes up in smoke, tough Sh**, we deserve it.i dont think you need to own up to anything but what you did to your bs and to your family and to yourself, the only focus should be on them.....the ap can handle there own crap,they chose there course.

 

lastly ,yes you lose all control of what happens next,but you can control what happens next in your marriage, if you truly are remourseful and you really want to change and build a strong and true relationship, that you can control.

[Dexter Morgan]

• BS, you will NEVER know everything. It's not because you didn't ask the right questions or your WS wasn't being honest, but you just can't imagine what is said and exchanged between AP's. It's devestating and I didn't realize this until I experienced my triggers this summer. There were things I forgot about that remind me of words that were shared with the AP. The are intimate and hurtful to the BS. And frankly, not everything needs to be known. I've been reading and engaging on this site for about a year, and while trust and transparency is needed, repeating and sharing every word is not. The things that really break the trust bond aren't often the things you would think.

I agree. The only thing the BS NEEDS to know is the number of a good attorney.

 

• The AP's are responsible to each other for the outcome of their actions. I believe if my AP ends up divorced because of our affair, I damn well own that. And cheater (me included) who doesn't think they have a direct impact on their partners life going forward is wrong. No matter NC or not, you were engaged in an affair with a married person, you own the outcome.

well this is actually refreshing since so many people who are the OW/OM think they don't owe a BS anything, not even in the least human decency and some even say they don't owe a BS any compassion.

[NOTSURE7]

I agree. The only thing the BS NEEDS to know is the number of a good attorney.

 

well this is actually refreshing since so many people who are the OW/OM think they don't owe a BS anything, not even in the least human decency and some even say they don't owe a BS any compassion.

 

dex: he was talking about the ap,not the bs here...

[redtail]

Nothing will satisfy you until all WS are divorced and miserable.

 

Impressive, really. But (you knew it was coming) I get the tone of explaining away the reasons of your affair, "so that everybody can understand and sympathize". Maybe, maybe not, but then your attack shows that your anger towards those who are not sympathetic, tells me it's right underneath the surface for you.

 

Maybe you hit the nail on the head with the above quote. Most (I said most, not all) WS haven't really felt the pain experienced by the BS, not first hand, not experientially. With pain comes clarity, and maybe that's the fog we're referring to...

 

Good luck to you.

[seibert253]

Samprez,

 

I agree with alot of what you said, but have to respectfully disagree on others. Maybe it's just that we have different perspectives; you're a WS, I'm a BS.

 

Again, I'm speaking from my perspective and what happened to me. Of course all of us are different and react differently. In the case of my FWW, when first confronted about her activities, she was "confused", she loved me but also was "in love" with the OM. Once the 2X4 of reality hit her upside the head, and she was forced to chose, him or me, she chose me.

 

After about 4 or 5 months, she came to me with the realization, "I really never did love him". She admitted she was living in her own fantasyland.

 

In my own assessment, for what it's worth, I think that many WS's confuse the newness, enfatuation, and fantasy, with love. True love is just that. If you are truly in love, you will give up everything to be with that person. It was a big bitter pill of pride, I had to swallow to stay with my FWW. But, I did so because the love I felt, and continue to feel, makes it necessary to do whatever it takes to maintain that.

 

Just my .02

[Chrome Barracuda]

And one more thing CB. I haven't stopped feeling remorseful and sad over what I did to my wife. How dare you make assumptions from my posting here. I was suggesting that there are lies other WS tell and that they are not real. This stuff doesn't simply go away. Get it!!!

 

LOL, still defensive I see...

 

How dare I??? Well I'm not the one who cheated on his wife and still admits to having feelings for his affair partner now am I?

 

While that remark may not be fair but it's the truth. If your feelings are so strong for the AP, why didnt you leave, why stay married? I dont see any remorse just a need for you to be right in your feelings, because if your affair was wrong then that would mean that everything you did in the affair, everything you said to the OW, was all just a lie...

 

So am I wrong? You still remained with your wife. Did you ever in time of the affair promise the OW to leave your wife for her? Did you ever say you love her more than your wife? And if so, why are you still married?

 

Dont be defensive.

[Owl]

Owl, you're one of my buds out here.

 

Back at you. I'm glad you didn't feel offended by my response. You know me well enough to know I wasn't attacking, simply offering my viewpoint.

 

Not suggesting not willing, just that there is so much data that it's overwhelming.

 

Now that I can buy. I know that there are details that I don't know from my wife's affair. And after a certain point, there is a 'law of diminishing returns' for asking the same questions over and over, etc...

 

Most BS's do finally get to the point where they accept that what they know is 'enough', even if it's not everything.

 

But that won't stop them from WANTING/NEEDING to know everything until they get to that point.

 

Regarding the fog, my wife says I seemed totally fine and couldn't believe I was lying like I was. I knew exactly what I was doing during the affair. No excuses.

 

I've seen it go both ways. Some people are completely functional in everything they were doing. Some are functional in everything EXCEPT anything tied to the affair. And some are so overwhelmed by the affair that it overlaps and distorts everything else they do.

 

Most of the time, when people talk about "affair fog", they're referring to the sheer insanity and flurry of illogical/completely unreasoned choices and decisions that many WS's make during the affair...and all tied around the affair itself. Not so much about the "rest" of their life during that time, but choices and decisions made around family/relationships/etc...

[bentnotbroken]

You won't be popular here, but I like the honesty - refreshing.

 

My MM just said to me.... " I am still me, just acting differently"

 

Acting is choice..... and is feed by MC's/IC's/Family and everyone involved in trying to keep the vase together. The truth.....yep, still him and while I do believe he is trying to work on his marriage...... the only thing that has changed is his choice to work on the marriage and do as he is told.

 

And thank you for clearing up the Fog ( again --- how is it when someone says " I etc etc) everyone says'..... well that's not what your W/IC would say... no, but it's HIS truth as he still sees it almost a year later.

 

And a big reason why BS can't be 100% honest.......

 

Also sounds like you have stayed and doing what you can to rebuild your marriage......tough work but personally I think the honesty with yourself will help that a great deal.

 

 

Samprez has been here for awhile.. most of us know his story and I don't think he ever tried to when a popularity contest.

[Mz. Pixie]

I disagree with there not being a fog. There is for some people- I experienced it myself.

 

Some people can compartmentalize those kinds of things and it may not affect them.

 

I went from a Sunday school teacher who was very active in her church and a good faithful wife to someone who was having an affair. I was like a drug addict wanting a fix- it was insane. Just because you didn't experience it doesn't mean that many people don't.

 

Also Willard Harley who wrote His Needs Her Needs how to affair proof your marriage- and has saved many marriages agrees with me as well- about their being in a fog.

[Spark1111]

Great questions! If single, would they still have chosen each other????

 

If they would have, would it have enjoyed the same intensity of emotions???

 

The fog is often explained as "the dopamine dance," that over-spiking of feel good hormones that fuels an affair and feels like euphoric love in its extreme sense.

 

It does cloud judgement, actions, perceptions, and leads to a Grieving of the relationship after it's over. But is the AP grieving the relationship, or the dopamine spiking?

 

Either way, it must FEEL real.

[drmcdreamy]

LOL, still defensive I see...

 

How dare I??? Well I'm not the one who cheated on his wife and still admits to having feelings for his affair partner now am I?

 

While that remark may not be fair but it's the truth. If your feelings are so strong for the AP, why didnt you leave, why stay married? I dont see any remorse just a need for you to be right in your feelings, because if your affair was wrong then that would mean that everything you did in the affair, everything you said to the OW, was all just a lie...

 

So am I wrong? You still remained with your wife. Did you ever in time of the affair promise the OW to leave your wife for her? Did you ever say you love her more than your wife? And if so, why are you still married?

 

Dont be defensive.

 

I'm going to have to pipe in here.

 

I'm still love my wife - always have, always will. I also fell in love with another woman while still married. I acted on my feelings of love for her too. I'm not sure if falling in love with her, or acting upon it, was my greatest weakness - maybe both.

 

I don't believe that there's only one person in the world anyone could ever love (that's obviously not true - otherwise how would you ever find "the one" out of 3.5 billion people of the opposite sex on this planet). The question is can someone really fall in love with someone when they are (or are supposed to be) in love with someone else. I think so. I suppose most people would say "no", and the fact that I fell in love with my AP meant that I didn't really love my wife. Disagreement of opinion there. (look for posts by Devil Inside to see someone who agrees with me though).

 

I remained with my wife because I still had feelings of love for her, and still felt committed to her, despite the fact that I had fallen for someone else and was betraying part of that commitment.

 

My affair ended (physically) 9 months ago because my AP moved on to another (non-married) man (she's single). I finally went NC last week because I realized that I would ALWAYS have feelings for my AP, and I just couldn't stand it anymore.

 

Someone in a later post asks what would have happened if I and my AP met when we were both single. We'd have started dating, and would have ended up married to each other - absolutely no doubt and we both agree on that. We didn't go there though because neither of us wanted to see my marriage/family destroyed despite the (unfortunate?) fact that we met and fell in love. Although we still have feelings for each other, and we miss each other, and the end of the A hurts like hell, we're both glad that she's moving on to someone who is fully (not partially) available to her and we're both glad that my family didn't get disrupted (the 6-month A was never discovered by anyone) and that I can try to continue to improve my marriage and my dedication so that I don't fall into this trap again.

 

On that note: I wish I had read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass about 2 years ago.

[ladydesigner]

'm going to have to pipe in here.

 

I'm still love my wife - always have, always will. I also fell in love with another woman while still married. I acted on my feelings of love for her too. I'm not sure if falling in love with her, or acting upon it, was my greatest weakness - maybe both.

 

I don't believe that there's only one person in the world anyone could ever love (that's obviously not true - otherwise how would you ever find "the one" out of 3.5 billion people of the opposite sex on this planet). The question is can someone really fall in love with someone when they are (or are supposed to be) in love with someone else. I think so. I suppose most people would say "no", and the fact that I fell in love with my AP meant that I didn't really love my wife. Disagreement of opinion there. (look for posts by Devil Inside to see someone who agrees with me though).

 

I remained with my wife because I still had feelings of love for her, and still felt committed to her, despite the fact that I had fallen for someone else and was betraying part of that commitment.

 

My affair ended (physically) 9 months ago because my AP moved on to another (non-married) man (she's single). I finally went NC last week because I realized that I would ALWAYS have feelings for my AP, and I just couldn't stand it anymore.

 

Someone in a later post asks what would have happened if I and my AP met when we were both single. We'd have started dating, and would have ended up married to each other - absolutely no doubt and we both agree on that. We didn't go there though because neither of us wanted to see my marriage/family destroyed despite the (unfortunate?) fact that we met and fell in love. Although we still have feelings for each other, and we miss each other, and the end of the A hurts like hell, we're both glad that she's moving on to someone who is fully (not partially) available to her and we're both glad that my family didn't get disrupted (the 6-month A was never discovered by anyone) and that I can try to continue to improve my marriage and my dedication so that I don't fall into this trap again.

 

On that note: I wish I had read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass about 2 years ago.

 

This is exactly how I feel to a "T" except that I am unsure as to whether or not I am really "in love" with my husband. I love him like a partner and good friend, but the intimacy and emotional connection I don't feel I ever had with him from day 1, not like I did with my AP. My xOM and I have more in common as well and yes if we were to meet as singles I too think we would have connected and had gotten married.

[michelangelo]

 

I remained with my wife because I still had feelings of love for her, and still felt committed to her, despite the fact that I had fallen for someone else and was betraying part of that commitment.

 

 

I find this quote from your posting to be quite revealing.

 

A commitment is a 100% kind of thing. There is no part-time commitment.

[redtail]

A commitment is a 100% kind of thing. There is no part-time commitment.

 

No, no, no. Commitment is okay as long as it's easy, convenient and no distractions...

[Chrome Barracuda]

I find this quote from your posting to be quite revealing.

 

A commitment is a 100% kind of thing. There is no part-time commitment.

 

I know and that's the question I have to ask. If there is no fog. what the F did you think during the affair? I mean did anyone coviently forget they was married? How do you rationalize that in your head you have a wife at home, while your banging someone else.

 

I dont think your BS wouldn't want to hear it...

 

Acting on those feelings with someone else was a choice you made. Why would any BS want to stay with a person who couldnt give them a whole commitment. What was the affair about if your betraying your spouse and then when the affair is over, either you be defensive and hold on to the fond feelings the affair provoked in you still comparing both of the two people. or you leave and be with the affair partner taking a gamble.

 

But lastly you have to ask yourself if it was a choice to cheat, and no one put a gun to your head and forced you to cheat. Then why???

 

Why hurt the one you love for your own selfish desires. that is something I'm trying to wrap my head around.

[drmcdreamy]

I find this quote from your posting to be quite revealing.

 

A commitment is a 100% kind of thing. There is no part-time commitment.

 

I absolutely hear what you're saying (it's like being sort-of pregnant).

 

I slipped and fell. Is it any wonder the phrase is "falling" in love? I fell when I shouldn't have (or some would say should not have been able to). I do not dispute that.

 

I guess what I meant about "part" was that I continued to show her love, give her attention and time, remain with her and support her - everything a husband should give a wife, except for fidelity. I didn't walk out on her and leave her stranded. If anything, during the A she often commented on how it seemed I was being a little more romantic, loving, caring, etc. than usual (a little, because she didn't complain before that those were absent).

 

I just erased what I was going to say because it made me realize this:

 

I was able to remain physically faithful to my wife for a very very long time. I then fell into an emotional affair, which totally caught me by surprise. Once I was in that, I was hooked in love with the OW, and it led to the physical affair.

 

Maybe all guys aren't like this, but I would NEVER have a cheap one-night stand with someone (at a meeting, a hooker, etc.) My infidelity absolutely started with the emotional aspect of the relationship, and I never realized it was happening and what power it would have over me (or how I would give myself up to its powers) once it started.

 

I said on another thread, I wish I had read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass 2 years ago.

[foreal]

Maybe all guys aren't like this, but I would NEVER have a cheap one-night stand with someone (at a meeting, a hooker, etc.)

 

NEVER?

 

Did you also NEVER think you'd fall in love with another person while M to your W? Or was that always a possibility for you?

 

I was able to remain physically faithful to my wife for a very very long time. I then fell into an emotional affair, which totally caught me by surprise.

 

Interesting choice of words: PHYSICALLY FAITHFUL.

 

Have you been emotionally unfaithful in the past to your W?