How to afford being more cavalier?

[Lights]

In life we may not have a choice as to how people treat us, but we DO have a choice as to how we will respond to them. I don't believe that ignoring or avoiding disrespectful people that mistreat you is being naive or saintly, it is simply one way of dealing with the situation. Choosing to associate with different people, and avoiding those who treat you poorly would probably be a good place to start.

"Choosing"?

 

In situations of being stood up, they've already made the "choice" of not associating, not me.

 

I don't get to "avoid" disrespectful people, save for after the fact if the situation allows it, and I don't get to "choose" to associate with different people unless they too choose to associate with me.

 

I would say that you have choosen to let this 'issue' remain on your shoulders and bother you. Sure, it happens to you; sure, you have to deal with it; I'm not denying any of that. But YOU are choosing to dwell on it and let it affect your behavior and outlook on life. Why let these people who don't have your respect have such power over your life, actions, and feelings? There is no 'defense' that could keep others from treating you in this way, except perhaps keeping youself out of such situations, so why not roll with the punches and ignore their behavior so you can get on with your life instead of letting them hold you back by obsessing about it?

Because the actions involved in "getting on with my life" include walking into yet more of this sort of treatment.

 

"Ok, that interaction with that apparent human is over. Time to go to the next one, and time to pray it won't happen all over again..."

 

Hmmm... How to "Not take any **** from others"...

 

I suppose it could be interpreted as meaning that someone doesn't tolerate or acknowledge inappropriate behavior made towards them.

I don't currently have the force to make anyone care about what I tolerate. I would like to learn how to build up sufficient force to do so.

 

I think the ability to elegantly not tolerate the poor behavior of others comes along with self confidence. When you are confident in what you believe or feel, and know yourself to be worthy (of whatever), others can sense this and instinctively respect you for it. Kind of like how the sensing of the bitterness works, only its the positive version of that. How good would you say your self-confidence levels are?

 

Logic appears to indicate that I am worthy of better treatment. But I seem to be up against a culture doing its best to browbeat me into believing otherwise. (Hell, in the situation regarding getting people to work with me on a project, it would appear advantageous in any situation to actually get the stuff done rather than stand me up, so even if I wasn't inherently worthy of such, it would still have been in their interests to have done so, or so I would have expected.)

 

I don't have much self-confidence in this arena. I would build it if I could, but I can't seem to arrange the longstanding positive track record to make any genuine confidence (as opposed to mere cheap rah-rah psych-up tricks).

[Calendula]

"Choosing"?

 

In situations of being stood up, they've already made the "choice" of not associating, not me.

 

I don't get to "avoid" disrespectful people, save for after the fact if the situation allows it, and I don't get to "choose" to associate with different people unless they too choose to associate with me.

 

I think you may be missing my point here. You may not be able to choose to avoid the disrespectful people, but you do get to choose how YOU respond to them. YOU choose how you are going to feel in response to their treatment of you. YOU choose to let them cause you to feel bad or misused instead of chosing to ignore their bad behavior and not let it bother you. I think this may tie into the confidence issue some, as well as to tapping your internal strengths...

 

Because the actions involved in "getting on with my life" include walking into yet more of this sort of treatment.

 

"Ok, that interaction with that apparent human is over. Time to go to the next one, and time to pray it won't happen all over again...".

 

Thing is, instead of moving on, you carry every past hurt and insult into your next relationship, on YOUR shoulders, CAUSING it to happen all over again because you are hung up on it.

 

There is that bitterness again: "that apparent human"

 

I don't currently have the force to make anyone care about what I tolerate. I would like to learn how to build up sufficient force to do so.

 

It doesn't take force so much as it does internal strength of character and confidence. You can't ever force someone to care about what you think, no matter how you treat them or what you do. It doesn't even matter how much money you have, or power, or fame. People choose (perhaps subconsciously) to treat you in a certain way because of how you come across to them/ how they perceive you.

 

Logic appears to indicate that I am worthy of better treatment. But I seem to be up against a culture doing its best to browbeat me into believing otherwise. (Hell, in the situation regarding getting people to work with me on a project, it would appear advantageous in any situation to actually get the stuff done rather than stand me up, so even if I wasn't inherently worthy of such, it would still have been in their interests to have done so, or so I would have expected.)

 

There you go again with "the culture." What "culture" are you talking about? American society in general? How white people treat black people and vice versa? How rich people treat poor people and vice versa? How magazines and TV show us we are supposed to behave (which IMO is totally unhelpful for developing healthy relationships;))?

 

Why does it seem like you are trying to blame "people" or "the culture" or "the area" for your unhappiness and inability to develop healthy relationships instead of looking to yourself and your own actions?

[Lights]

Thing is, instead of moving on, you carry every past hurt and insult into your next relationship, on YOUR shoulders, CAUSING it to happen all over again because you are hung up on it.

I don't know of anything else I can do.

 

Transgressions could be committed against me freely and safely then, and can still be done so freely and safely now. Why wouldn't I be hung up on it, even as I move on with my life?

 

There you go again with "the culture." What "culture" are you talking about? American society in general? How white people treat black people and vice versa? How rich people treat poor people and vice versa? How magazines and TV show us we are supposed to behave (which IMO is totally unhelpful for developing healthy relationships;))?

The culture of my local area. It could be possible that other areas of the US or of the world might be better and worthier than this one.

 

Why does it seem like you are trying to blame "people" or "the culture" or "the area" for your unhappiness and inability to develop healthy relationships instead of looking to yourself and your own actions?

Because these aren't the result of wrong actions on my part. I tried repeatedly to get people to work with me in good faith. What is so wrong about that?

 

Thank you for all your time on this. I have to log off for today.

[Lights]

The culture of my local area. It could be possible that other areas of the US or of the world might be better and worthier than this one.

A thought struck me. Does anyone here know which regions have higher concentrations of people who are willing to deal with others justly and respectfully?

 

 

Also, does anyone know good, clean, legal ways of avenging these sorts of things? Perhaps I would not need to worry about the matter so much if would-be transgressors knew that disrespecting me would result in immediate and overwhelming retribution.

 

 

Sit in a supermarket or shopping mall and watch people some day (take a book so you don't look like a stalker ). Watch how strangers initiate conversations with each other in checkout lines. Watch how shopkeepers make a sale to a potential customer they know nothing about.

This is something I'm going to try sometime early this week. One thing I'm wondering though is this: if I'm sitting somewhere, how will I get within range to have any chance at clearly hearing people conversing? This especially applies at malls, where the places to sit and read etc. are primarily outside of the stores themselves (except for reading in a bookstore or something).

[Lights]

This is something I'm going to try sometime early this week. One thing I'm wondering though is this: if I'm sitting somewhere, how will I get within range to have any chance at clearly hearing people conversing? This especially applies at malls, where the places to sit and read etc. are primarily outside of the stores themselves (except for reading in a bookstore or something).

 

Watch how strangers initiate conversations with each other in checkout lines. Watch how shopkeepers make a sale to a potential customer they know nothing about. Watch how kids respond to their parents - the yelling parents and the nice parents. Just watch, and think about what you see.

 

I tried wandering in a mall earlier today (I wasn't able to find an area to sit down that allowed me to see too many people at any given time).

 

I wasn't able to learn much from doing so, though; I saw pretty much none of the above. I saw no evidence of anyone interacting unless they came there together, and those few cases I did detect soon walked out of my range of view. I wasn't able to get close enough to anyone to hear any of what anyone was saying.

 

 

Anyone...any help, please?

[Calendula]

I tried wandering in a mall earlier today (I wasn't able to find an area to sit down that allowed me to see too many people at any given time).

 

I wasn't able to learn much from doing so, though; I saw pretty much none of the above. I saw no evidence of anyone interacting unless they came there together, and those few cases I did detect soon walked out of my range of view. I wasn't able to get close enough to anyone to hear any of what anyone was saying.

 

This isn't the kind of thing you learn overnight or from one attempt at observing people in a mall. It takes time, patience, and awareness. Keep watching, keep observing. Watch how the people who come to a place together interact with each other. Walk discretely after them so you can observe. Browse the shelves in a bookstore. Read a newspaper at a coffee shop. Sit on a park bench near a crowded throroughfare to eat your lunch. Sit in a crowded restraurant for a meal and take notes on the people around you (if it looks like you are busy writing, no one will think twice about a single person eating alone).

 

Give it time. You can't expect to change your perspective, or anything about yourself, for better or for worse, based on a single experience or attempt at observation.

 

With that said, what DID you actually see in your one mall visit? Did you see any families with kids, either 'good' or 'bad' kids? How did they 'manage' their kids to get them to do what they wanted them to? Did you see any shopkeepers talking to customers? What did they say, how did they initiate or continue conversations? Were they respectfull to each other? If so, why do you think that was; was it just because they wanted to make a sale? Did you watch people's faces, body language, and expressions; did you see their expressions change when they observed someone, a stranger, they might have thought of as distastefull or dressed strangely? Did they smile or nod at other strangers as they passed each other? Did people move out of the way for one another in walkways?

 

What I'm getting at with all of this is all of the different ways that different people can show respect for one another, and how people respond to different types of approaches or behaviors. Keep watching, keep trying to pay attention, and keep thinking about what you do and don't see. What do you come up with?

[Calendula]

I wasn't sure if you caught this post from earlier in our conversation, but I thought I would bring it up again in regards to your question of how to gain true self confidence.

 

Have you ever thought about taking martial arts or boxing classes?

 

It could be a good way for you to vent some of the pent up bitterness and frustration you seem to have - against a punching bag instead of towards other people who don't really deserve it. It could also be a good way for you to improve your physical self-control (and therefore, perhaps, your mental control of your feelings) and possibly your self-confidence.

 

I don't currently have the force to make anyone care about what I tolerate. I would like to learn how to build up sufficient force to do so.

 

I don't have much self-confidence in this arena. I would build it if I could, but I can't seem to arrange the longstanding positive track record to make any genuine confidence (as opposed to mere cheap rah-rah psych-up tricks).

 

With inner confidence comes a strength of character, an inner 'force' if you will, that people instinctively respect without even knowing it. I'm not talking about the "I will beat you up if you don't respect me - oh he could really kick my butt" kind of respect, but the kind that is automatically given to someone who simply seems to be in control of their life and their actions (subconscious and intentional).

 

You can never "make anyone care" about anything, and trying to would be a waste of your time and energy. You can't directly change someone else's choices, whatever they may be. You CAN however, intentionally change what YOU choose to care about, including how you feel about other's opinions or treatment of you. You can also choose to change your actions and perspective so that the instinctive responses of others become the ones you desire instead of the ones you despise.

 

If you remain caught up on the ideas that 'it is just this place', 'it is just these people', 'it isn't anything I'm doing', you will take your problems with you wherever you may go, no matter how far away you were to move. If you truly want a solution to what you percieve to be your 'problem' of disrespect, look inside yourself first, at who and what you are, and then look to the actions of others. You can DO something about YOU, so why not start there instead of trying to change everyone else first?

[Lights]

This isn't the kind of thing you learn overnight or from one attempt at observing people in a mall. It takes time, patience, and awareness. Keep watching, keep observing.

Watch how the people who come to a place together interact with each other. Walk discretely after them so you can observe.

This one's nightmarishly hard to come anywhere near pulling off. (A Ninja master I ain't.) However, possible minor exceptions to the problem can exist if the location is small enough and crowded enough that maintaining close distance raises no suspicion and yet quiet enough to actually hear anything anyone says (I was in a tiny takeout restaurant in another city earlier today and happened to be sitting waiting next to some people; I wasn't able to understand much of their language, but I couldn't identify anything out of the ordinary with them either).

 

Browse the shelves in a bookstore.

Yeah, that I often do.

 

Read a newspaper at a coffee shop. Sit on a park bench near a crowded throroughfare to eat your lunch. Sit in a crowded restraurant for a meal and take notes on the people around you (if it looks like you are busy writing, no one will think twice about a single person eating alone).

 

Give it time. You can't expect to change your perspective, or anything about yourself, for better or for worse, based on a single experience or attempt at observation.

I know. But I've attempted similar observation in the past, in attempts to find out solutions to other issues I had been having. The major areas where it all goes wrong (and as a result yields no information) are in failure to getting close enough to see/hear things for any amount of time, no clear examples of anything that other people do that's so different from what I do, and lack of ability to "replicate an error" so to speak.

 

With that said, what DID you actually see in your one mall visit? Did you see any families with kids, either 'good' or 'bad' kids? How did they 'manage' their kids to get them to do what they wanted them to? Did you see any shopkeepers talking to customers? What did they say, how did they initiate or continue conversations? Were they respectfull to each other? If so, why do you think that was; was it just because they wanted to make a sale? Did you watch people's faces, body language, and expressions; did you see their expressions change when they observed someone, a stranger, they might have thought of as distastefull or dressed strangely? Did they smile or nod at other strangers as they passed each other? Did people move out of the way for one another in walkways?

 

Families with kids: just one, and at a very long distance. They picked up their small child out of a stroller, and walked into a store.

 

Shopkeepers talking to customers: I passed by a shopkeeper in the food court, and said shopkeeper offered a sample. I refused the sample because I had no intention at all of buying anything there (so I didn't feel it'd be right to take the sample). Beyond that, no; greeters existed in the fronts of some stores, but no attempts at conversations were involved with anyone as far as I could see.

 

I couldn't get any clear looks at expressions or body language. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary.

 

No people in view seemed out of the ordinary, so I can't answer regarding any distasteful actions.

 

I saw no evidence of anyone smiling or nodding towards any strangers.

 

Walkway spacing was ample and no escalator-rushing or passing-by seemed to have occurred, so no move-out-of-the-way was applicable.

 

What I'm getting at with all of this is all of the different ways that different people can show respect for one another, and how people respond to different types of approaches or behaviors. Keep watching, keep trying to pay attention, and keep thinking about what you do and don't see. What do you come up with?

 

Not particularly much. Things seem pretty mundane if I'm not involved in them, or when they're more simple interactions with people "supposed to" deal with one, e.g. buying stuff at the mall. I don't know just what it is that makes other things become so twisted and vile.

 

I wasn't sure if you caught this post from earlier in our conversation, but I thought I would bring it up again in regards to your question of how to gain true self confidence.

 

With inner confidence comes a strength of character, an inner 'force' if you will, that people instinctively respect without even knowing it. I'm not talking about the "I will beat you up if you don't respect me - oh he could really kick my butt" kind of respect, but the kind that is automatically given to someone who simply seems to be in control of their life and their actions (subconscious and intentional).

Unfortunately, too much of my life relies on other people (whether in team projects, "networking", or other such things). I'm not as in control of my life as I'd like to be, but I don't see that changing anytime anywhere near the near future.

 

You CAN however, intentionally change what YOU choose to care about, including how you feel about other's opinions or treatment of you.

This sort of thing is theoretically admirable but in reality quite impractical for as long as one is in situations wherein accomplishment depends on dealings with other people. If no one in my range of operations has the opinion that I am worth teaming up with in good faith, then I must work alone whether I desire it or not. If no one of consequence in my range of operations considers me worthy of respect in situations identifiable as significant, trying to fool myself into somehow enjoying it is nothing but empty delusional masochism.

 

You can also choose to change your actions and perspective so that the instinctive responses of others become the ones you desire instead of the ones you despise.

If that was the case and I knew what the actions and responses even were, presumably I wouldn't be having this problem...

[Lights]

You can also choose to change your actions and perspective so that the instinctive responses of others become the ones you desire instead of the ones you despise.

If that was the case and I knew what the actions and responses even were, presumably I wouldn't be having this problem...

 

Does anyone here know what the actions etc. in question are?