WHY do you think you are in a sexless marriage?

[PandorasBox]

With all do respect, I think some of you who are in situations who have said your spouse Changed after the I Do's, etc, I think the person you claim to have "changed" didn't change, they were that person to begin with. You must have dated the other person. The pretend person. The one that led you to believe whatever it is you fell for. If you look really hard and pay attention that person was there all along.

 

And maybe some of you (who might not admit it) knew what you were getting into and you married in hopes things would change or get better, and it didn't. This goes for both men and women.

[Lovely10]

As unpopular as my opinion on the subject may be... here goes...

 

Anytime someone enters a relationship for self serving reasons it is doomed for failure. Marriage done poorly is an example of a great big giant mutual use job. Marriage done well is a symbiotic dance. Two partners moving to the same music.

 

I don't see my role in life to be the sexual benefactor for a horny male.

 

I don't see my role in life to be obligated to take care of sexual urges as they may evolve.

 

I don't see my role in life to earn my keep by putting out.

 

I don't see my role in life as a female body to be utilized as a tool or an outlet for one sided sexual gratification.

 

Period.

 

I do see myself as a woman who when she loves or wants a man to giver herself over to him as he gives himself over to me. I've never screwed anyone. I've made love lots of times. Just my wiring.

 

So much discussion about varying libidos. Frankly, if a man made me feel like an outlet for his sexual appetite I'd be completely repulsed. Turn it around... if he made me the focus of his desire... now I'm interested. And... there is a monumental difference between these two things.

 

Desire is not an urge to get off. Night and day.

 

Make a woman a recipient of getting off and you've got a hard road to tow. For a male to say to a woman I need to get off x amount of times per week because my genitals require this amount of servicing... well this isn't a huge aphrodisiac. Tell a woman that she drives you crazy and you can't get enough of HER... well that is an aphrodisiac.

 

No one wants to be a tool. Not a man. Not a woman.

[Untouchable_Fire]

With all do respect, I think some of you who are in situations who have said your spouse Changed after the I Do's, etc, I think the person you claim to have "changed" didn't change, they were that person to begin with. You must have dated the other person. The pretend person. The one that led you to believe whatever it is you fell for. If you look really hard and pay attention that person was there all along.

And maybe some of you (who might not admit it) knew what you were getting into and you married in hopes things would change or get better, and it didn't. This goes for both men and women.

 

I would say that you are correct in this.

 

Had I connected the dots, I would have known my XW would be like this. However, at the time I did not have the wisdom to see that.

 

My XW had been with a huge amount of men by the age of 20, and in my ignorance I figured that meant she liked sex. I believe that what it actually meant was that she used sex to get a guy interested in her... or to fall in love with her.

 

Now that I am almost 30.... I can see the crazies from a mile out.

 

I've never been in a relationship again where there was no sex. I just got out of one where I felt like her sex drive required a credit card swipe though.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Make a woman a recipient of getting off and you've got a hard road to tow. For a male to say to a woman I need to get off x amount of times per week because my genitals require this amount of servicing... well this isn't a huge aphrodisiac. Tell a woman that she drives you crazy and you can't get enough of HER... well that is an aphrodisiac.

 

Right... because it's all about how YOU feel.

[PandorasBox]

"However at the time I did not the wisdom to see that."

 

I understand. And I think most people don't, and maybe lots of factors play into why that is too. Possibly age, not enough life experiences, and maybe blinding ones own self because all most people see, especially in the beginning, is love, and what could be.

[JamesM]

Lovely, while I understand why some of your feelings are what they are based on the fact that your husband had an affair, I cannot say that to simply show your wife how much she is desirable will make her "horny."

 

Problem is (and I have read it here from others)...she assumes that you want something even if it is not the case. BTDT.

 

I could list all of the ways I have tried to change my wife's opinion about sex, and from all of my research, I can pretty much tell any guy a set list of reasons that may cause his marriage to be sexless. But I cannot change my wife nor his.

 

And that is what it comes down to...

 

"Oh, but maybe YOU should change how you are." I can hear someone here say that to me.

 

And my response is: "Two things...one, I need to know what to change. I can shoot in the dark and change everything about me, but if it is not the one right thing, then nothing will change on her end. And two, how many hurdles must we jump over to have our spouse express love sexually? I know that she needs an emotional connection, and even when she feels it is strong, her sex drive remains low."

 

Is it fair that she refuses sex for reasons as you list until I meet certain standards, and then when I do, she is surprised that I think sex is a reward?

 

Again, sex is to be found within the marital bonds. Infidelity is either giving oneself to whom you are not married or it is refusing sex to whom you promised your love.

[Lovely10]

Right... because it's all about how YOU feel.

 

Please tell me you're kidding. OF COURSE it is about how I FEEL. And, if I were with a man who cared about how I FEEL he'd get nothing but GOOD FEELING.

 

There are very talented designers in plastics that have engineered some remarkable blow up dolls.

[PandorasBox]

Lovely, while I understand why some of your feelings are what they are based on the fact that your husband had an affair, I cannot say that to simply show your wife how much she is desirable will make her "horny."

 

Problem is (and I have read it here from others)...she assumes that you want something even if it is not the case. BTDT.

 

I could list all of the ways I have tried to change my wife's opinion about sex, and from all of my research, I can pretty much tell any guy a set list of reasons that may cause his marriage to be sexless. But I cannot change my wife nor his.

 

And that is what it comes down to...

 

"Oh, but maybe YOU should change how you are." I can hear someone here say that to me.

 

And my response is: "Two things...one, I need to know what to change. I can shoot in the dark and change everything about me, but if it is not the one right thing, then nothing will change on her end. And two, how many hurdles must we jump over to have our spouse express love sexually? I know that she needs an emotional connection, and even when she feels it is strong, her sex drive remains low."

 

Is it fair that she refuses sex for reasons as you list until I meet certain standards, and then when I do, she is surprised that I think sex is a reward?

 

Again, sex is to be found within the marital bonds. Infidelity is either giving oneself to whom you are not married or it is refusing sex to whom you promised your love.

 

Sounds like you've done right many things James. I'm glad you see that YOU trying to CHANGE for HER didn't work. People need to change for themselves not for another. So with that being said, and it seems you've tried so much, then the ball is pretty much in her court. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like she is going to do much with it. Its sad you live like this, but after all it is your choice.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Please tell me you're kidding. OF COURSE it is about how I FEEL. And, if I were with a man who cared about how I FEEL he'd get nothing but GOOD FEELING.

There are very talented designers in plastics that have engineered some remarkable blow up dolls.

 

And I'm sure all of the guys your with end up buying one.

 

Sometimes you need to give before you get.

 

Also, assuming another persons intentions, or assuming how they may feel... usually leads you in the wrong direction.

[Lovely10]

Lovely, while I understand why some of your feelings are what they are based on the fact that your husband had an affair, I cannot say that to simply show your wife how much she is desirable will make her "horny."

 

Problem is (and I have read it here from others)...she assumes that you want something even if it is not the case. BTDT.

 

I could list all of the ways I have tried to change my wife's opinion about sex, and from all of my research, I can pretty much tell any guy a set list of reasons that may cause his marriage to be sexless. But I cannot change my wife nor his.

 

And that is what it comes down to...

 

"Oh, but maybe YOU should change how you are." I can hear someone here say that to me.

 

And my response is: "Two things...one, I need to know what to change. I can shoot in the dark and change everything about me, but if it is not the one right thing, then nothing will change on her end. And two, how many hurdles must we jump over to have our spouse express love sexually? I know that she needs an emotional connection, and even when she feels it is strong, her sex drive remains low."

 

Is it fair that she refuses sex for reasons as you list until I meet certain standards, and then when I do, she is surprised that I think sex is a reward?

 

Again, sex is to be found within the marital bonds. Infidelity is either giving oneself to whom you are not married or it is refusing sex to whom you promised your love.

 

 

My feelings about myself as a woman were in place long before I ever met my husband. I was already in my 30's and had my fair share of suitors. I know myself. I remember reading articles in women's magazines concerning the male perspective on marital sex and relationships... surveys, etc... (that frankly mirror some of what I've read here) and I used to feel utterly repulsed by the idea of marriage. I kept myself single and ... as boyfriends... the men were wonderful. Fortunately, I have enough self respect and independence as a woman to say that no one owns me and no one will ever own me. No marriage certificate in my sphere serves as a receipt marked 'paid in full'.

 

I don't enslave my man and my man sure as heck wont enslave me. To suggest that marriage is a purely a performance based contract is revolting.

 

I do believe, however, that if sexual marital intimacy is 'genital servicing' then someone espousing this theory has a screw loose.

 

Having said that, I also believe that a marriage is a 'mate' oriented relationship and that sex is a very important, integrated part of that relationship... hardly indistinguishable. It is a romantic relationship integrated with a life together.

 

My husband's cheating had zero to do with how I formulated the personal constructs of myself. His cheating was held to task in light of my personal constructs

[Lovely10]

And I'm sure all of the guys your with end up buying one.

 

Sometimes you need to give before you get.

 

Also, assuming another persons intentions, or assuming how they may feel... usually leads you in the wrong direction.

 

I have no shortage of self esteem as a female and no, I've had no trouble with males. In fact I sort of have to laugh to myself about what you just wrote... thinking of the reaction you'd get from anyone who ever knew me. No, but it seems you'd like to paint that picture of me as a woman because you would feel justified in putting me down.

[Untouchable_Fire]

My husband's cheating had zero to do with how I formulated the personal constructs of myself. His cheating was held to task in light of my personal constructs

 

Why did he go elsewhere?

 

I have no shortage of self esteem as a female and no, I've had no trouble with males. In fact I sort of have to laugh to myself about what you just wrote... thinking of the reaction you'd get from anyone who ever knew me. No, but it seems you'd like to paint that picture of me as a woman because you would feel justified in putting me down.

 

Do you think I'm just trying to put you down? I'm not. I am sure you have had some success with men. I'm sure that your good at what you do. What I'm pointing out is that the most pervasive thing in all of your expression here... is me. Does that make sense?

 

If it's all about you... then you will never experience what a great relationship can be.

 

I'm glad you have a huge amount of self esteem, but those who have the greatest self esteem, are those who can put others first while retaining a sense of self.

[JamesM]

I don't enslave my man and my man sure as heck wont enslave me. To suggest that marriage is a purely a performance based contract is revolting.

 

I do believe, however, that if sexual marital intimacy is 'genital servicing' then someone espousing this theory has a screw loose.

 

Having said that, I also believe that a marriage is a 'mate' oriented relationship and that sex is a very important, integrated part of that relationship... hardly indistinguishable. It is a romantic relationship integrated with a life together.

 

 

Love is expressed two ways in marriage....through emotional contact and through physical contact. For some reason, men feel affirmed through sex, and women feel affirmed through conversations, romantic gestures, and similar things. Both must be present.

 

Men do not always get the fact that they must show that they love their wife through an emotional connection, and since women do not feel as "needy" for sex, they miss the reason why men want a physical connection.

 

When a man strays from his marriage physically, he usually becomes emotionally connected to the OW. As I read many times, this hurts the wife more than simply the fact he had sex elsewhere. No, she does not like it that he took something that should be special and used only for an expression of love to her, but it hurts deeper because he trivialized that act and gave it to someone else seemingly as an expression of love to the OW. And even more so, when she discovers that he became emotionally connected to this other woman, then she becomes distraught because he gave his body AND his heart to the OW.

 

Many men on the other hand will tell you that the worst images of a straying wife is not that she talked with this man, but that she actually had sex with him. That is because to him, sex expressed her love to him more than talking does.

 

So, when a wife decides that sex is no longer necessary in a marriage but still wants her husband to keep up the emotional expression of love, then she misses the fact that she is cheating her husband out of the expression of love he needs. She rejects him over and over by her refusal.

 

It is not about genital servicing, but it is completely about the honoring of a vow that was said by both. The man says he will remain faithful because to him, sex is an expression of love. He understands by her yes, that she will continue to express her love to him so long as they both shall live. And if there is a reason for the lack of sex because of a problem in the relationship, then it is imperative that both parties communicate the problem. When one says that "It is me, not you," then essentially she leaves her husband helpless and resentful. She has broken her vow.

 

So to act surprised when he then commits an affair is an affront to his and her vow.

 

As soon as one partner considers sex just "genital servicing" or communication and emotional gestures as simply talking and buying flowers without realizing the deeper meaning behind the actions, then he or she is no longer honoring is or her vow.

 

It is not about sex....it is about love and acceptance and respect.

 

it is not about listening and open communication....it is about love and sharing and bonding.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Love is expressed two ways in marriage....through emotional contact and through physical contact. For some reason, men feel affirmed through sex, and women feel affirmed through conversations, romantic gestures, and similar things. Both must be present.

 

Men do not always get the fact that they must show that they love their wife through an emotional connection, and since women do not feel as "needy" for sex, they miss the reason why men want a physical connection.

 

When a man strays from his marriage physically, he usually becomes emotionally connected to the OW. As I read many times, this hurts the wife more than simply the fact he had sex elsewhere. No, she does not like it that he took something that should be special and used only for an expression of love to her, but it hurts deeper because he trivialized that act and gave it to someone else seemingly as an expression of love to the OW. And even more so, when she discovers that he became emotionally connected to this other woman, then she becomes distraught because he gave his body AND his heart to the OW.

 

Many men on the other hand will tell you that the worst images of a straying wife is not that she talked with this man, but that she actually had sex with him. That is because to him, sex expressed her love to him more than talking does.

 

So, when a wife decides that sex is no longer necessary in a marriage but still wants her husband to keep up the emotional expression of love, then she misses the fact that she is cheating her husband out of the expression of love he needs. She rejects him over and over by her refusal.

 

It is not about genital servicing, but it is completely about the honoring of a vow that was said by both. The man says he will remain faithful because to him, sex is an expression of love. He understands by her yes, that she will continue to express her love to him so long as they both shall live. And if there is a reason for the lack of sex because of a problem in the relationship, then it is imperative that both parties communicate the problem. When one says that "It is me, not you," then essentially she leaves her husband helpless and resentful. She has broken her vow.

 

So to act surprised when he then commits an affair is an affront to his and her vow.

 

As soon as one partner considers sex just "genital servicing" or communication and emotional gestures as simply talking and buying flowers without realizing the deeper meaning behind the actions, then he or she is no longer honoring is or her vow.

 

It is not about sex....it is about love and acceptance and respect.

 

it is not about listening and open communication....it is about love and sharing and bonding.

 

Incredibly well said..... I often hear my wife saying I don't listen to what she says, though I swear I try hard and make sure I do listen, empathize and try to react appropriately..... I know this sounds silly, but sometimes I have to know not to argue a point and just listen.

 

What truly resonates is how women (predominantly) equate a PA no different from an EA, which I find fascinating in the Infidelity section. Often I have been chastised saying it is not cheating if you have not had sex....

[Lizzie60]

I've never been in a sexless marriage.. although I really hoped for one..

 

I could have lived sexless with my first ex... there was no reasons other than I didn't love him anymore like a 'lover' (sexually).. he was more like a brother to me.. OK then.. maybe you can say that I was just not sexually attracted to him anymore...

 

Everything else was good..

 

I think many couples are over-analyzing... most couples just fell out of sexual attraction over the years.. it's that simple.. everything can be amazing.. except the 'desire'..

[Untouchable_Fire]

Those who know me (including my husband) would tell you that I hold the needs of others as preeminent value and importance. I'd sacrifice myself before I ever sacrificed anyone. I mentioned earlier that if you had ran that by anyone (especially the men) in my life they'd probably laugh... because of the person they know/knew.

 

Because I'm taking a hard line on the origin of sexual intimacy and desire as being important speaks to my heart as a woman. I don't treat any man like crap. I never have and I never will. I don't have a cold heart... hence my intolerance for anything that deals from a cold hearted perspective.

 

Why did my husband cheat? Well, I learned following everything that he did it in another marriage as well. He's done the hard work in cleaning up his act as a man and as a person I respect him for that. Although I don't respect the act of cheating I do respect someone who owns themselves and their actions.

 

I'm not saying you were wrong in what you said. In fact you had some good points. It was just incomplete.

 

The only issue I had with your original post is that you assumed another persons motivations, and made the issue all about you. I tend to think relationships should be viewed in terms of us.

 

I'm sorry about your husband. I hope he straightens up. I can tell you truthfully that when I did that, it was because I had lost respect for her. I hope your situation is different.

[Snowflower]

 

What truly resonates is how women (predominantly) equate a PA no different from an EA, which I find fascinating in the Infidelity section. Often I have been chastised saying it is not cheating if you have not had sex....

 

I think I understand what you are saying here, TDP. If sex isn't as big of deal to women in a relationship (grossly generalizing here)...then why do women get bent out of shape when their husbands have a PA? Good question!

 

OTOH, I often find that it is men who underestimate or disregard an EA - whether it was an EA they (meaning the man) were involved with or their wife's EA. I see it all the time on these boards...men think the EA is not much to be concerned about since there was no sex.

 

Both genders generally consider a PA the ultimate form of cheating. I don't necessarily agree because I think an EA is far more damaging to the marital relationship. If infidelity had to occur in my marriage, I would much rather deal with the fact that my husband had had some type of PA rather than a long, drawn-out EA. I'm speaking from my perspective only.

[jennie-jennie]

I was certain something was twisted with my ex SO's sex drive. I knew he had had some bad experiences as a child where guilt became intertwined with sex for him. So his lack of desire for intercourse and his choice of masturbation instead I saw as something that had only to do with him and his fear of intimacy.

 

Now I am not so sure anymore. I talked to his ex, the girlfriend he had prior to me, the other day. She is a good friend of mine. Now, given it is a very, very long time ago since they were a couple, and that she is not always truthful, she did say that they had sex just about every day. Every day! This is not the same man I had a relationship with!

 

I know he was much more in love with her than he ever was with me, but she betrayed him and left him for his best friend. I was his second choice.

 

In retrospect I can see that although I loved him dearly we were not a good match. So... maybe he was just not that into me.

 

I don't know. Or maybe it was both - the twisted sex drive and the mismatch.

[jennie-jennie]

I don't have a cold heart... hence my intolerance for anything that deals from a cold hearted perspective.

 

Cold hearted seems to be a favorite word of yours. The one who said it is it.

[mem11363]

Lizzie,

Did you tell him "I am just no longer attracted to you sexually"? Were you that blunt? And how soon after you lost your attraction did you tell him?

 

 

 

I've never been in a sexless marriage.. although I really hoped for one..

 

I could have lived sexless with my first ex... there was no reasons other than I didn't love him anymore like a 'lover' (sexually).. he was more like a brother to me.. OK then.. maybe you can say that I was just not sexually attracted to him anymore...

 

Everything else was good..

 

I think many couples are over-analyzing... most couples just fell out of sexual attraction over the years.. it's that simple.. everything can be amazing.. except the 'desire'..

[mem11363]

Up until I turned 40 - I would have to acknowledge having a Titanic sized sense of entitlement with regard to sexual frequency. Not good for a marriage.

 

Now we have a compromise - and it is twice a week but it sure is not set in stone and if she asked me to change it I would do the best I could to accomodate her up or down. As for our current arrangement I have a reservoir of guilt for being selfish in years 1-14, so if anything seems "off" I just try to follow the golden rule and treat my better half the way I want to be treated when I am not in the mood (which is not so rare that I do not understand how it feels).

 

When stuff does come up, my wife is apologetic and empathetic. Just like I am when I am momentarily not able to meet a core need of hers. And that takes most of the sting out of the situation. I don't feel rejected if she makes an effort to be nice about it - and I would feel rejected if she seemed indifferent to my needs. I do think that indifference to your partners top priorities has no place in a healthy marriage.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

 

However, it comes across as very cold when some of the men establish that they require sex at least 'x' times per week to feel okay. I'm sorry, but that sounds more like genital servicing than anything.

 

Now, for that to migrate into being something along the lines of... I desire intimacy with my wife as often as possible... is very different indeed.

 

I don't see sex with my husband as an outlet. I see it as an experience with him, the man.

[jennie-jennie]

That would explain her husbands lack of interest!

 

Very immature to make a joke of such a delicate matter. You should know better, being you have lived in a sexless marriage yourself.

[Juniper22]

I think some of these jabs and smart remarks are uncalled for in MY thread. I had hoped it wouldn't turn into that kind of thing.

 

Some of you have done a a great job at staying on topic and answering WHY you think you might be in one, or have been in one, thanks.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Very immature to make a joke of such a delicate matter. You should know better, being you have lived in a sexless marriage yourself.

 

My experience gave me a thick skin, and made me realize that I'm not responsible for someone elses libido. That if you love someone you don't hold out on them physically or emotionally.

 

I read your earlier post. Your man had an issue... that was not your fault at all.

[jennie-jennie]

My experience gave me a thick skin, and made me realize that I'm not responsible for someone elses libido. That if you love someone you don't hold out on them physically or emotionally.

 

I read your earlier post. Your man had an issue... that was not your fault at all.

 

OK, friends then? You know you open yourself up here on the forum with stuff you have hardly told anyone. Not so fun to be made fun of then. You understand that, right?