Island Girl Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 What would you make of a 'player' who doesn't mind his wife/GF having male friends? I know projecting is typical, but how about the atypical? Thankfully I do not have to deal with that conundrum. :bunny:
northstar1 Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 It is up to you and your partner to decide if it is appropriate or not. If I were in your shoes, the subject was discussed, and my husband had no problem with it, then fine. If he DID have a problem with it then my spouse's feelings come first before anything and anyone so it would be a no go. Oh, I agree you need to discuss it beforehand. But, if they got upset because you were going to meet and old friend for coffee, wouldn't you examine that basis of the reason they had a problem with it? I mean, I understand respect of your partner's feelings, but if they are truly going to be that upset because you maintain a platonic friendship with someone of the opposite sex, that would seem to be a red flag about their insecurity IMO.
carhill Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 You are a renaissance man who can separate feelings from sexual impulses and keep things in their nice tidy compartments. Sorry, forgot to comment on this. You might be surprised to learn it's exactly the opposite, and perhaps why I can manage it the way I do. To me it's more of a whirling maelstrom that I pluck bits and pieces out of to form a construct, guided by both my intrinsic personality, as well as my unique socialization and what I learned in MC. I face the demons of desire (inappropriate desire), look them in the eye and talk to them. The hardest part, the part which requires the most work, is fighting the intrinsic emotional setpoint and behaving in the stereotypical male fashion of cool and calm and to not let those inappropriate signals get out. Women are very sensitive to such signals, though most males are so coarse in their sexual pursuit and/or interest that conditioning has numbed women to some of the subtleties. I remember how a married friend of my wife worked on me for nearly two years to get a reaction, markedly during time of marital stress. I finally did tip over, something I regret, but it taught me a lot of new tools to manage that dynamic, emotional disconnection being one; specifically disconnection from the emotions which flow from perceived validation. It's probably better and simpler for men and women to not be friends
Author loveslife Posted September 8, 2009 Author Posted September 8, 2009 I'm sorry, but when I see the posts about how someone's SO better use them for all the support they need and not turn to someone else for ANYTHING and if they do see someone of the opposite sex I better be along, too.... all I can think is, how possessive and controlling, how unhealthy. The people I know IRL find it healthy and normal to have close relationships with members of the opposite sex and staying friends with exes is a positive thing. Guess I've already stated this. For those who have a different perspective, I hope it helps bring you the relationships you desire and is healthy for you.
Island Girl Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 Sorry, forgot to comment on this. You might be surprised to learn it's exactly the opposite, and perhaps why I can manage it the way I do. To me it's more of a whirling maelstrom that I pluck bits and pieces out of to form a construct, guided by both my intrinsic personality, as well as my unique socialization and what I learned in MC. I face the demons of desire (inappropriate desire), look them in the eye and talk to them. The hardest part, the part which requires the most work, is fighting the intrinsic emotional setpoint and behaving in the stereotypical male fashion of cool and calm and to not let those inappropriate signals get out. Women are very sensitive to such signals, though most males are so coarse in their sexual pursuit and/or interest that conditioning has numbed women to some of the subtleties. I remember how a married friend of my wife worked on me for nearly two years to get a reaction, markedly during time of marital stress. I finally did tip over, something I regret, but it taught me a lot of new tools to manage that dynamic, emotional disconnection being one; specifically disconnection from the emotions which flow from perceived validation. It's probably better and simpler for men and women to not be friends Ahhh well thank you for the clarification. I have always thought you an advocate of intergender friendships. Now I see you have just been a man with much will power and now find it easier to just resign yourself to the more obvious. I really hope you find that special lady to fulfill all of those facets carhill. I find you a genuine and amazing man.
carhill Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 The people I know IRL find it healthy and normal to have close relationships with members of the opposite sex and staying friends with exes is a positive thing.I would generally agree, the key being that those relationships are transparent, inclusive and are a two-way street. My warning semaphores start waving when the dynamic appears to be one-way, specifically in the realm of validation and support. Relationship (or life, if a relationship is not extant) support should be mutual and open, IMO. Now I see you have just been a man with much will power and now find it easier to just resign yourself to the more obvious. LOL, yeah, reading my own posts, I have to say the roller coaster sometimes sticks my head into the vomit bag
Author loveslife Posted September 8, 2009 Author Posted September 8, 2009 I would generally agree, the key being that those relationships are transparent, inclusive and are a two-way street. My warning semaphores start waving when the dynamic appears to be one-way, specifically in the realm of validation and support. Relationship (or life, if a relationship is not extant) support should be mutual and open, IMO. Of course. I agree completely. I'm not talking about the R's where one person wants a friendship and the other does not. And the current Other should definitely know about the R. But I disagree that the current SO needs to be included in everything the friends do. That's really distrustful. I guess we all act on our experiences. And just so you know, I say all this having been in an R where my bf had a little fling with his ex when we were together. But that speaks more to his character than having her around. Guess it comes down to choosing wisely and trusting. JMO
Island Girl Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 I'm sorry, but when I see the posts about how someone's SO better use them for all the support they need and not turn to someone else for ANYTHING and if they do see someone of the opposite sex I better be along, too.... all I can think is, how possessive and controlling, how unhealthy. So I guess I have the most successful unhealthy relationship on the planet! All joking aside, I assure you it is quite the opposite. We have built our relationship with a very strong foundation and are completely transparent to each other. We fulfill each other's needs and can depend on each other even in the most challenging of circumstances. CHEERS!
carhill Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 My wife had male friends and clients whom I never knew. I believed in our commitment and such relationships were irrelevant to me. If she ever abrogated our commitment, it was unknown to me and at this point remains irrelevant. Our M failed because of *us*, not her friends. Again, as long as it is a two way street and the spouse/SO *feels* included, regardless of pressing the physical flesh, my stance remains the same, for myself. My surrender to the obvious pertains to others whose paths do not converge with mine. I expect them to do what is healthy for them. If paths converge, bonus
New Again Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 Of course. I agree completely. I'm not talking about the R's where one person wants a friendship and the other does not. And the current Other should definitely know about the R. But I disagree that the current SO needs to be included in everything the friends do. That's really distrustful. I guess we all act on our experiences. And just so you know, I say all this having been in an R where my bf had a little fling with his ex when we were together. But that speaks more to his character than having her around. Guess it comes down to choosing wisely and trusting. JMO I think one of the problems with what you're talking about is that you're presenting the "ideal" situation - not what MOST friendships with ex's are actually really like.
carhill Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 IMO, if both ex'es can honestly say their connection is gone and see each other with polite disinterest and without expectations, a subsequent platonic friendship can be built if they're compatible as friends. Such a compatibility concept would preclude my wife and I being friends, in the true sense of what friendship is, but I believe it could pertain to others in different circumstances and I've seen it occur to a limited degree within my social circle. Everyone is different
Author loveslife Posted September 8, 2009 Author Posted September 8, 2009 Yes, New Again, you're right, I do think that ideally exes should remain friends. It's not a blanket rule for me and it hasn't always worked for me. But, to me, it is a very good thing if it can work. I guess, for me, what I've been getting at is that while it is not always possible to have a friendship with an ex I don't believe it should be the new partner who decides who you can or cannot be friends with. Does that make sense?
New Again Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 Yes, New Again, you're right, I do think that ideally exes should remain friends. It's not a blanket rule for me and it hasn't always worked for me. But, to me, it is a very good thing if it can work. I guess, for me, what I've been getting at is that while it is not always possible to have a friendship with an ex I don't believe it should be the new partner who decides who you can or cannot be friends with. Does that make sense? I see what you're saying, I just still disagree. I think it's a matter of respect. You demand that your SO treat you respectfully don't you? And if/when s/he doesn't, you either break up with them or tell them something better change or you're leaving. For example, my bf hanging out, especially alone, with an ex-gf who still has feelings for him and who doesn't respect his relationship with me is completely disrespectful to me. He should not be putting himself in that position. You're probably right that SOME people in SOME circumstances can be actual real friends with their ex's. I just think what you describe are ideal circumstances, rather than the reality faced by most people in this situation.
dreamergrl Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 I have a good handful of exes that I would not want to be friends with. But they generally put me through hell. I have friends that are guys as well, and most of them are taken. But I've never done anything one on one with any of them (except my roommate) for those that are taken. Those that aren't, it's stayed very platonic.
Island Girl Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 Yes, New Again, you're right, I do think that ideally exes should remain friends. It's not a blanket rule for me and it hasn't always worked for me. But, to me, it is a very good thing if it can work. I guess, for me, what I've been getting at is that while it is not always possible to have a friendship with an ex I don't believe it should be the new partner who decides who you can or cannot be friends with. Does that make sense? My husband has never dictated who I can or can not be friends with. I make that choice. I do take into account his feelings and the importance of our relationship but in the end it is my decision. He may be "new" in comparison to how long I have known him but he is more important since I have chosen him to commit my life to. It is the same on his side. I think most healthy relationships where exes are not in the picture would be the same way. Many threads here on LS have to do with issues because of exes. Here's a new one as of today: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t201485/ My husband and I do not have these problems nor will we ever. That's the benefit of no exes hanging around.
Author loveslife Posted September 8, 2009 Author Posted September 8, 2009 I see what you're saying, I just still disagree. I think it's a matter of respect. You demand that your SO treat you respectfully don't you? And if/when s/he doesn't, you either break up with them or tell them something better change or you're leaving. For example, my bf hanging out, especially alone, with an ex-gf who still has feelings for him and who doesn't respect his relationship with me is completely disrespectful to me. He should not be putting himself in that position. I agree that your bf hanging out with ANYONE who treats you or your relationship with disrespect is wrong. Would you feel differently if the ex was more respectful? You're probably right that SOME people in SOME circumstances can be actual real friends with their ex's. I just think what you describe are ideal circumstances, rather than the reality faced by most people in this situation. I agree that it's probably not common. It has been something I've been around a lot for some reason, but maybe that's just happenstance.
phineas Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 I think every woman I was in a relationship with that was still friends with their ex's wound up cheating on me with their ex. So perhaps i'm jaded in this respect. In the past when I broke up with a woman it was because I wanted them out of my life. period. In the past women that broke up with me wanted to be friends & before I knew it I joined her army of worker monkey ex-boyfriends when she moved or needed something fixed around her apartment. Happened with two ex's. Now I tell them I got enough friends & bid them farewell.
Author loveslife Posted September 8, 2009 Author Posted September 8, 2009 I have a good handful of exes that I would not want to be friends with. But they generally put me through hell. I have friends that are guys as well, and most of them are taken. But I've never done anything one on one with any of them (except my roommate) for those that are taken. Those that aren't, it's stayed very platonic. I tend to feel most comfortable being friends with guys who are taken. If they're decent guys that is.
carhill Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 In the past women that broke up with me wanted to be friends & before I knew it I joined her army of worker monkey ex-boyfriends when she moved or needed something fixed around her apartment. POD, man. That was great. And so true.
Author loveslife Posted September 8, 2009 Author Posted September 8, 2009 My husband has never dictated who I can or can not be friends with. I make that choice. I do take into account his feelings and the importance of our relationship but in the end it is my decision. He may be "new" in comparison to how long I have known him but he is more important since I have chosen him to commit my life to. It is the same on his side. I think most healthy relationships where exes are not in the picture would be the same way. Many threads here on LS have to do with issues because of exes. Here's a new one as of today: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t201485/ My husband and I do not have these problems nor will we ever. That's the benefit of no exes hanging around. I think a lot of people feel the way you do, Island Girl.
dreamergrl Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 I tend to feel most comfortable being friends with guys who are taken. If they're decent guys that is. Yes, decent is the key!
New Again Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 I agree that your bf hanging out with ANYONE who treats you or your relationship with disrespect is wrong. Would you feel differently if the ex was more respectful? Yes, I would. I think. For example: I believe you're familiar with the thread I started about my bf going out with his ex who is engaged? I think you responded to that thread. A couple reasons I perceive this situation negatively are: she's a cheater; despite knowing about me for months she continues to invite my bf to things (with her and her fiance) without ever mentioning me (as in, "would you and your SO like to..."); when I met her finally she would barely speak to me, and she ignored her fiance to monopolize my bf's time and attention - and when he talked about us, she would ignore his comments; she very clearly needs a lot of attention from guys - example: the night I met her, when my bf finally started ignoring her to pay attention to me she literally sat in a corner by herself and pouted, instead of joining the group. However, following the thread I started about drinking with his ex, my bf told me about her commenting on how he's different with me than he was with her and other gfs, and it's obvious that he's all about me, and pretty serious about me. While I'm still not comfortable with the situation, I feel slightly better knowing that she commented on our relationship in a positive way. I just hope she was being sincere and not trying to suck up to him.
Author loveslife Posted September 8, 2009 Author Posted September 8, 2009 Yes, I would. I think. For example: I believe you're familiar with the thread I started about my bf going out with his ex who is engaged? I think you responded to that thread. A couple reasons I perceive this situation negatively are: she's a cheater; despite knowing about me for months she continues to invite my bf to things (with her and her fiance) without ever mentioning me (as in, "would you and your SO like to..."); when I met her finally she would barely speak to me, and she ignored her fiance to monopolize my bf's time and attention - and when he talked about us, she would ignore his comments; she very clearly needs a lot of attention from guys - example: the night I met her, when my bf finally started ignoring her to pay attention to me she literally sat in a corner by herself and pouted, instead of joining the group. However, following the thread I started about drinking with his ex, my bf told me about her commenting on how he's different with me than he was with her and other gfs, and it's obvious that he's all about me, and pretty serious about me. While I'm still not comfortable with the situation, I feel slightly better knowing that she commented on our relationship in a positive way. I just hope she was being sincere and not trying to suck up to him. Yes, I did read and comment on your thread. It sounds like she's a spoiled obnoxious brat. I can certainly understand why you don't want her around and feel mistreated. If she were respectful of you and encouraging towards your R I expect you'd feel differently. Maybe not totally comfortable but it sounds like you trust your bf (and he sounds trustworthy) so it probably wouldn't occupy your mind as much.
New Again Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 Yes, I did read and comment on your thread. It sounds like she's a spoiled obnoxious brat. I can certainly understand why you don't want her around and feel mistreated. If she were respectful of you and encouraging towards your R I expect you'd feel differently. Maybe not totally comfortable but it sounds like you trust your bf (and he sounds trustworthy) so it probably wouldn't occupy your mind as much. I think so too - I do trust him, so I can only imagine that the reason it bugs me is the respect thing. He has plenty of girl friends and I don't have a problem with any of them - but, they also have shown me that they respect our relationship. Wow, I think I just had an epiphany or something. THe more I think about it, the more I see a huge and very clear distinction between how the ex-gfs treat my bf and how how his girl friends treat him. Loveslife, do you think you treat your ex differently than you treat other friends of the opposite sex, perhaps because of the previous closeness of your relationship?
sally4sara Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 I think one of the deciding factors for how easily an ex can actually be a healthy friend once the other ex starts dating others, is how they came to terms with the relationship's failure. Say I date a guy and I had some serious feelings for him but he was always letting me down and treating me with less regard than I felt I should accept. I choose to make the hard decision to break up and part of how I move on is to tell myself: "It wasn't me, it was him and his inability to really make a woman an integral part of his life. He is a mess; he may always be a mess and it was smart of me to get out before I lost my self esteem and grew to hate him." And I grow to accept this as fact so well that I can have a "friendship" with him. I might even get to see him re-enforce my belief by witnessing him screw up his next relationship(s)! It makes me say "See! so glad I wised up because he treats his friends with much more respect than he does his GFs". And we will have a grand old friendship (one where I get to use him as ego food because I like to believe he still sweats me as I WAS the dumper after all )! That is.....till I have to see him meet a woman well suited for him at a time where he has become mature enough to realize it. Perhaps he did some growing up and can now have a decent relationship, but I won't want to see this! It will call into question everything I used to comfort myself and now I might find myself thinking "he is such a great guy as a friend and if I had just stuck it out, I could have been the girl he decides to be a great BF for too!" And I will seeth inside and hate the girl who came along at the right time and think she has something I lack..... When really it is more about maturity and timing than any lack the ex might have. If her self esteem is really mostly tinsel and pretend, she won't be able to accept this and she will be a cold breeze to the new GF.
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