Some people have delusions of granduer

[Hkizzle]

I'm going to start a controversial post, so flame me all you like.

 

On one of the threads one of the guys honestly said that his mum is not attractive but wants to date doctors and rich men. He thinks it's a waste of life and hope because inner beauty only goes so far.

 

Another poster then said:

 

"Why wouldn't she be entitled to date a nice accomplished guy if thats what she wants? just wondering. So her being overweight lessens her rights to what would make her happy as a person? thats so sad.

 

I agree its not nice or right they bash skinny women live and let live but then again being exposed to a constant attitude like this can make people bitter and lash out in the end."

 

Ok ideals are good, but there's just one problem.

 

Wanting, and feeling entitled to is different from putting oneself in the position to get it.

 

So many people want, (women) a rich, fun, interesting, funny man, or (men) a hot, interesting, understanding woman.

 

Reality check, there's more demand than supply. So 100% of people want what only 10% of people have. Why would those attractive people pick you if you don't put the effort into making yourself attractive?

 

It's like saying, I want to be rich and then being too lazy to work hard. It's an unrealistic desire. Realistic desires go hand in hand with doing something about it.

 

I think some people confuse what they want with what they can get, and also between self-respect with pride and delusions.

[Hkizzle]

And before I get flamed, I forgot to add.

 

If many people think it's wrong for society to judge this woman for wanting a doctor even though she's got little to offer.

 

But why isn't she willing to date down and go for a poor road sweeper?

 

See it's all about supply and demand for the attractive.

 

But if someone wants to get an attractive person they need to create something attractive within themselves, not just looks, but personality as well of course.

 

But people that go on and on about what they want, but not willing to do something about it are no different from a lazy person wanting to get rich.

[Hkizzle]

What if I told you that I'm a rich guy who stays in good physical shape and has served 30 years in the military but I want to date only those women who are overweight & who never got a high school diploma?

 

That's fine. I hate it when individuals say, well I don't think that way, as if I am an exception to the rule that means the entire general population thinks the same way........

[MeadowGlitter]

I want to date someone that can put up with me as much as I can put up with him . He doesn't have to be a doctor, an engineer or a lawyer. As long as he is willing to go through the hard work together for a better future, I'm in!

[Hkizzle]

I want to date someone that can put up with me as much as I can put up with him . He doesn't have to be a doctor, an engineer or a lawyer. As long as he is willing to go through the hard work together for a better future, I'm in!

 

Right, good for you.

 

But that's not related to the title of the post that's talking about people with delusions of grandeur. They want attractive individuals, but not willing to make themselves attractive to be a decent match.

 

Why can't they just date someone their own level?

[EarthGirl]

I'm going to start a controversial post.

 

well there's the surprise of the century ; ).

 

seriously H, why are you so bitter about this subject? do you have some personal issues about it or bad experiences?

 

personally i am a woman and I DO care about attractiveness, in fact I would have a really hard time sleeping with a man who was not somewhat attractive, doesn't have to be a perfect cut 20 year old model (in fact I probably would not prefer that), but I have to be attracted to him or else I would be uncomfortable, and I have enough issues with sex already that I just could not do that, might even be somewhat traumatic for me...I have no trouble LOVING a man regardless of if he is the elephant man because love is about the soul and who a person really is which has nothing to do with the flesh that we carry around in this life. It is really quite unfair that we have these biological/psychological needs while at the same time things happen to our bodies we are NOT always our fault (regardless of what you think H). And it's unfair not only to the people that are unattractive in some way but to the more attractive people that are missing out on them, because they may be quite beautiful wonderful souls.

 

It's also unfair that in this day and age if a person is bold enough to say that looks actually do matter to them, they are labeled as "shallow"...when it is really a lot more complicated than that and it does not mean they are not a deep, kind, and upstanding person.

 

That said not EVERYone has this problem. People are all different, their "filters" as I call them are all different, and some people have no trouble not only loving and living with but having a great sex life with an overweight or even obese person, or someone who does not have the most attractive face...hell with the magic technology of Viagra these days some elderly couples have sex into their 90's if they are lucky enough and take care of themselves enough to not have significant health problems that prevent it or make it dangerous at that age, and if that is their personal preference as a couple. And while I would not want to be an audience to that (and frankly if I make it that long in life as much as I like sex and am not a prude, I may want to take a little break anyway, you know prepare myself for the next big adventure, and smell the flowers, find another hobby in my last years..I am still only 27 and I am completley exhausted by life...I have a feeling sex with someone I'm in love with will reinvigorate me in some way more than exhausting me more...but there ARE other things to life you know?) , I say more power to them.

 

 

 

but being that I understand what it is like to not be able to be sexually intimate with someone I do not find attractive and that I know that I cannot change that about myself...I do not judge anyone who wants or does not want a partner based on attractiveness..nor do I judge any man that does not look my way at my current weight. I am not upset or hurt in any way that guys don't turn their heads towards me like they used to out in public. Nor would I judge any man who chose to turn me down at my current weight BECAUSE of my current weight.

 

The ONLY thing I disagree with you about H, is your idea that people are always completley personally responsible for whatever circumstance they find themselves in. I just simply believe that life is like an incredibly complicated dance with thousands of dancers (not necessarily representing people, but perhaps representing events and circumstances)...and in order to get out without bumping into so many people you end up beat up and bruised beyond recognition...you have to take the right path...only it's kind of like, like you may be in control of say one arm and one leg, but you're not in control of the rest ...like you can steer a little but once you bump into a "bad dancer" maybe that takes one arm out of commission, so now you only have a working leg, and in order to be more mobile again you have to not bump into anything else until your arm heals, but if you are unlucky enough to bump into something else before your arm heals, you could be completely lost and broken...

 

but if you are lucky enough to not bump into anything just long enough for your arm to heal then you can steer better, and therefore continue not bumping into things even if they start to get in your way...and you end up with a healthy happy successful life, and you get called a winner and hardworker and people say you "make your own luck".

 

And while I think it really helps to BELIEVE that you can steer your own way, which I think is partially true...and just believing that I think can give you the strength to work harder and have better timing..

 

but no matter how positive and how hard working someone is (NOT saying that hard work doesn't have EVERYTHING to do with success), and how many awful things they overcome to be successful..it does not account for timing and events beyond control of us as humans, and does not mean that homeless alcoholic bum on the street would not be in your exact same cozy situation had he taken the exact path you had.

[MeadowGlitter]

Why can't they just date someone their own level?

 

That is because they think they deserve to get the best. Who are you to say that they are not working to look attractive for wanting someone just as attractive or more? Or rather, what makes you think those who want something more than they can offer, don't have a lot to offer themselves?

[Hkizzle]

That is because they think they deserve to get the best. Who are you to say that they are not working to look attractive for wanting someone just as attractive or more? Or rather, what makes you think those who want something more than they can offer, don't have a lot to offer themselves?

 

If I ran an employee and he works hard I promote him. If he's average I let him be. If he's bad I fire him.

 

People do the same when picking partners. In fact people can be even more ruthless when picking partners because they need to spend the rest of their lives with that person.

 

If someone wants to date up, then fine! But like I said they should do something. The problem is those people that feel they are entitled to date up, but too friggin lazy.

 

That's just like a lazy person in any other aspect of life and highly unattractive.

[EarthGirl]

p.s. I do intend to make myself attractive again for the man I love. I also would like to add that although I have somewhat of a mental/emotional handicap and have not been able to work much and have a kind of fantasy of the man of my dreams sweeping me away and taking care of me and my essentials, food shelter and all that...I do not want a mansion or a bunch of designer clothes to wear on my newly hot body...I would be really happy with an affordable small house or apartment...all that means to me is he has less space to get away from me and we can be closer in proximity more of the time..and personally I have never wanted a flashy Richard Gere in pretty woman type big business rich guy that can get anything he wants whenever he wants and has a gold bathtub and all that...

 

the handsome part is nice as I've said, but I have always had a bit of a fantasy of a starving artist, poor mechanic in blue jeans working hard for his money and all that.

[Hkizzle]

I've noticed from your posts, especially in the jerks thread that you like fantasies.

 

I'm talking about reality. Specifically with regards to supply and demand.

[Hkizzle]

But you have to take into account there are people who choose to date up without making themselves more attractive & still succeed in getting a partner who is above their league.

 

Why? because there are always people like myself who don't mind dating down.

 

By the way I work hard at my job & I still don't want a promotion. Does that mean you would fire the hard working people who turn down promotions?

 

No you of course I wouldn't fire such a worker. That worker is also extremely rare. As are people that date down to levels significantly lower than themselves.

 

It's about supply and demand over the entire population, not the exceptions to the rule. Not every relationship is a prince charming vs cinderella story, and when people keep thinking about fairy tales it can actually do more harm than good.

 

For example the people that benefit the most from the Cinderella story ironically are jerks as they exploit the woman's belief in it.

[EarthGirl]

If I ran an employee and he works hard I promote him. If he's average I let him be. If he's bad I fire him.

 

People do the same when picking partners. In fact people can be even more ruthless when picking partners because they need to spend the rest of their lives with that person.

 

If someone wants to date up, then fine! But like I said they should do something. The problem is those people that feel they are entitled to date up, but too friggin lazy.

 

That's just like a lazy person in any other aspect of life and highly unattractive.

 

That is a horribly unromantic way to look at romance...there is a reason why we call it that you know.

 

Just take away the subject of looks and status, career, finance, charm, etc. for just a second..

 

don't you know that the whole idea of love and romance is to find a person that you really like as a person and "fits" you...no I am not talking anatomy or sex here.

 

It's not about finding the "best" person, as it would be with a job...well ok most managers and bosses would probably prefer that they find someone that is not only skilled and talented competent and efficient at whatever job, but also that "fits" the particular company...wether it is working style in whatever field it is in, or a more personal social aspect with the workers that are already there...

 

BUT..it is different...generally when someone is looking for an employee, they look for the very best at whatever job it is, at least the best they can get for whatever salary they are willing to pay the new employee.

 

You can look at love and romance more like looking for a house....

 

What you first look for is the size you want at this point in your life(this is not a metaphor for physical appearance here, but for soul aspects and personality), then you might look or have a professional look to see if the house looks well built and sturdy and if the electricity is working right and safe, etc. (this would be a metaphor generally if they are a good person and if they are emotionally sound enough at that point in their life to be in a relationship-although I am not one of those people that believes people have to be perfectly balanced emotionally/mentally to deserve to be in a relationship-in fact "that's what love is for" and all that..but we all sometimes have times when we are not "safe" to be in a relationship, either for ourselves or the other person involved).

 

Then you would naturally look to see if the house had features that were "your style"...Some people like a modern look, some people like a down home southern look, some people like hardwood floors, some like tile, rug, etc. In fact think of a persons soul as a house that is already pretty much decorated and it is a "turn key" place where you get to keep everything that comes in it, and in fact it would be difficult with your busy schedule and finances to change too much about it, although you may be able to make a few improvements (with the houses permission of course) but the general style of the house is going to stay the same, for better or worse.

 

When you find a house that when you walk in you just feel "at home" and you feel excited and giddy and at peace and you just think it's lovely and just your style and you just know that this is a good person that deserves your love...then you have found someone who you love. To YOU they are "the best"...but that does not mean that they necessarily have the hardest abs of anyone in your dating availability, or that they are the most successful in business, etc.

 

Here is my homework assignment for you H...watch at least an hour and a half of HGTV a day, and imagine each house as a soul of a human being and try to understand what love is.

[Hkizzle]

Romance is what happens between two individuals. That's different from fantasy.

 

Btw, do you understand what supply and demand means?

[Untouchable_Fire]

but being that I understand what it is like to not be able to be sexually intimate with someone I do not find attractive and that I know that I cannot change that about myself...I do not judge anyone who wants or does not want a partner based on attractiveness..nor do I judge any man that does not look my way at my current weight. I am not upset or hurt in any way that guys don't turn their heads towards me like they used to out in public. Nor would I judge any man who chose to turn me down at my current weight BECAUSE of my current weight.

 

I would wager a guess that you are young.

 

As you grow older you will more than likely discover that you have some control over what your attracted to in another person.

 

Also, who would you rather be with? A guy that sees you as attractive today... even when you don't see yourself as that great. Or would you rather spend your life with someone who is only attracted to you in a slim form?

[EarthGirl]

 

For example the people that benefit the most from the Cinderella story ironically are jerks as they exploit the woman's belief in it.

 

H, that is the first thing you've said that I actually respect and agree with. However not all guys are like that and even some that are eventually grow out of it. they say people never change, but I don't know if THAT is all that realistic. I think it's more perpetuated by people who have had really bad luck in life and have been really beat up by others who have abused them and taken advantage of them and haven't changed in a really long time, and while I understand where their view comes from (because to THEM having lived their particular life, they have all the evidence they need to believe that people never change, and no evidence to support the belief that they actually could)...I don't think the actual statistics of people changing their ways are quite as dire as some would have you believe. It is difficult, but it is not impossible.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

And before I get flamed, I forgot to add.

 

If many people think it's wrong for society to judge this woman for wanting a doctor even though she's got little to offer.

 

But why isn't she willing to date down and go for a poor road sweeper?

 

See it's all about supply and demand for the attractive.

 

But if someone wants to get an attractive person they need to create something attractive within themselves, not just looks, but personality as well of course.

 

But people that go on and on about what they want, but not willing to do something about it are no different from a lazy person wanting to get rich.

Wow I spawned a thread all on my lonesome lol... Um how do you know his mom didn't marry a road sweeper? not every one is shallow and materialistic..

 

Again I say your views on the subject are biased and made on the assumption that all overweight people are unattractive and lazy.

 

So in your eyes not entitled to want anything decent in life how dare they right? narrow minded and shallow at best but meh what ever works for you I guess...

[Hkizzle]

H, that is the first thing you've said that I actually respect and agree with. However not all guys are like that and even some that are eventually grow out of it. they say people never change, but I don't know if THAT is all that realistic. I think it's more perpetuated by people who have had really bad luck in life and have been really beat up by others who have abused them and taken advantage of them and haven't changed in a really long time, and while I understand where their view comes from (because to THEM having lived their particular life, they have all the evidence they need to believe that people never change, and no evidence to support the belief that they actually could)...I don't think the actual statistics of people changing their ways are quite as dire as some would have you believe. It is difficult, but it is not impossible.

 

People tend to change in between relationships, and they tend to change for themselves, not others.

 

It's this belief that if you love someone enough, they will change for you, because you're special, that screws so many men and women.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

seriously H, why are you so bitter about this subject? do you have some personal issues about it or bad experiences?

I'm wondering the same thing really.

 

It's also unfair that in this day and age if a person is bold enough to say that looks actually do matter to them, they are labeled as "shallow"...when it is really a lot more complicated than that and it does not mean they are not a deep, kind, and upstanding person.

 

.

Its not about wither there bold enough to say looks matter to them hey if looks matter them then good on them I don't care its not my life.

 

I have a prob when they start saying how certain people don't deserve to have what they desire/be happy.

 

Just based exclusively on how they look the "how dare they" attitude the holier then thou deal thats what bothers me..

[Untouchable_Fire]

Its not about wither there bold enough to say looks matter to them hey if looks matter them then good on them I don't care its not my life.

I have a prob when they start saying how certain people don't deserve to have what they desire/be happy.

Just based exclusively on how they look the "how dare they" attitude the holier then thou deal thats what bothers me..

 

It's just like dreaming of being a rockstar. Millions will try, few will succeed.

 

Does that mean if you wind up as an accountant you failed? Or does that mean you never give up the dream... and you work at it until you succeed or die?

[SpanksTheMonkey]

It's just like dreaming of being a rockstar. Millions will try, few will succeed.

 

Does that mean if you wind up as an accountant you failed? Or does that mean you never give up the dream... and you work at it until you succeed or die?

I think people are entitled to what ever makes them happy in life if they get it great if they don't meh thats life hey.

 

But really who's to say they have no right to even desire it in the 1st place just because they look a certain way? I believe there use to be a accepted mind set like that oh thats right it was racism.

 

Basically discrimination based SOLEY on how people look no? oh god I could go on and on this subject. Looking back apparently Ive confused self respect with pride and delusions tho lmao..

 

Nope I have self respect and respect for others enough to know when somethings right and wrong and putting people down based SOLEY on there looks is wrong and shallow no matter how your going to try and vindicate it to yourself..

[Hkizzle]

It's just like dreaming of being a rockstar. Millions will try, few will succeed.

 

Does that mean if you wind up as an accountant you failed? Or does that mean you never give up the dream... and you work at it until you succeed or die?

 

Right, that's what I mean. So many people want to be a rockstar without understanding the supply and demand of it. A million people want to be one, but the market can only support a few.

 

People that want to date way above their level do the same, and contrary to spankthemonkey's perception, I'm not just talking about looks. A model that's a bitch is in the same position.

 

If people want to date higher up, whether fat or a model they need to increase their overall attractiveness. That means the fat person needs to lose weight and the model needs to work on her personality.

[SpanksTheMonkey]

That means the fat person needs to lose weight .

Ok what ever you say

[Hkizzle]

Ok what ever you say

 

What's funny though is if I say the model needs to stop being a bitch, everyone would agree.

[EarthGirl]

I would wager a guess that you are young.

 

As you grow older you will more than likely discover that you have some control over what your attracted to in another person.

 

Also, who would you rather be with? A guy that sees you as attractive today... even when you don't see yourself as that great. Or would you rather spend your life with someone who is only attracted to you in a slim form?

 

I am 27. Some would consider that still young I guess, but I am certainly not a teenager or a kid anymore. I do not know if this thing will change as I get older or not. However I have had some major mental/emotional crises that surrounded this subject, so I believe it may be more of a problem for me than some other people...and may be a rather deep psychological issue for me that will never go away. I don't know that for sure, but I can only go with the flow at this point.

 

I have been really traumatized even further by having to admit my feelings about this to my mother and several psychiatrists and psychologists who did not really understand where I was coming from. I try to explain but no one seems to understand. I am humiliated even further by searching stuff on the net and finding no psychological information about it, and only lay men regular sites that claim that men are "visual creatures" but women tend to look more for personality and protection and financial stability in men. I am indeed a woman, so it makes me feel like a freak. My mother even said she did not know what she did wrong with me (which is her favorite phrase when she is disappointed or frustrated with me...she is great with the guilt, like some mothers are...she shows how guilty she feels which in turn makes me feel like sh*t and guilty myself for hurting her and making HER feel guilty).

 

I have suspected that I may have been sexually abused as a child, but have no memories of it, some nightmares...THAT you can look up, there is plenty on that (look up dissociation+sexual abuse..or..."false memories" if you are inclined to be skeptical)...But even if I was, I have no way to know if that caused anything, or if it is just my particular brain. I AM a very visual person....surroundings like scenery color and weather effect my mood immediately wether for better or worse, and my dream as a career has always been to be a filmmaker. I also can apparently pick up meanings of facial expressions as well as those guys on that Tim Roth show, lol. I took some online quiz I ran across accidentally and got almost all of them right, like in the 95th percentile or whatever. I always knew that I pick up on emotions easily but I had no idea I could do that.

 

And to answer your question....I would rather be with the guy I'm in love with than anyone else...who does in fact value me no matter how much I weigh..and thinks I'm awesome no matter how much I weigh....he tells me all the time. He also does not judge me either for being fat OR for my issues with sex. In that to me he has really shown me what TRUE "unconditional love" is. Not many people would be so understanding that they love you so much they refuse to judge you when they know how hard you try because you are connected heart to heart. In fact he says that he will do all he can to stay attractive for me as long as possible and when we finally both lose the fight and get old and/or fat, god willing we are still alive and together, he will not pressure me for sex or do anything that will make me uncomfortable.

 

I DO by the way think I'm pretty great, right now in fact...I am simply fat right now but that has nothing to do with how great I am as a person.

 

Truthfully I think he would be more comfortable with sex with a less attractive me than the other way around. He also IS rather successful and with the "cool crowd" so *I* would be more comfortable looking a little better when I meet his friends but I know that he himself is proud of me and would be proud to have me on his arm no matter what. I am not going to starve myself, I am not into the anorexic look anyway...but also I do want to feel literally lighter and more carefree with my body...it is less about health and how long I live (as I've said I am pretty exhausted with life already) and more about being lighter and feeling better in my body...It is hard to understand unless you have been a healthy fit thin person (not athletic, I don't do sports, but I was a dancer) and then gained a lot of weight.. If you have been either or your whole life you cannot understand it, even if being fat is very hard for you, and if you have always been thin you cannot understand what it is like to have that extra burden, literally, put on you...You have experienced it both ways and it is not only about looks, but the feeling of being agile and lighter and stronger again....more...yourself..literally.

 

As far as looks go though, he loves me unconditionally as I love him (love is different than attraction) and as I said, I think he is more comfortable with sex and these issues than I am, but he IS a man after all, and I know he would PREFER for me to be thin and beautiful....although he has some self esteem and jealousy issues that may be even harder on him when I have lost weight (not bad controlling jealousy issues, he is very into me feeling free and independent and having my own friends even if they are male, just that he has been through a lot in his life and is quite in love with me : )..but I intend to be very reassuring to combat that.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I think people are entitled to what ever makes them happy in life if they get it great if they don't meh thats life hey.

 

Spanks... I hear what your saying... and for the most part I totally agree. We are all responsible for our own paths in life and have a right to it.

 

However, while it's ok to dream big... losing sight of reality often hurts those around us as well as it hurts ourselves.