Older women; does the ageism on this forum bother you?

[northstar1]

Well I am glad you think this way. But most women don't run around this forum saying how hot guys are that drive Porsches or how they want them. Many men run around this forum telling women how worthless they are after a certain age. And then ironically, still want those same women they insulted to agree with them and think they are wonderful men.

 

 

 

.

 

Again, you are saying that a handful of guys who act like that represent the majority on here. Then you take the views of a few and apply it in your own arguments against everyone.

 

Enough of the strawman tactics Jersey.

 

And again, when you dated older men, what was it that attracted you to them?

[Chubbi]

I think I must have pushed some buttons. People don't like it when guys go back on their words, I guess.

 

But allow me to assure you of something Caramel C- the guy had to have respected me enough or I wouldn't have tolerated it. Unlike you, I can't say I can read his mind but I know my self damn well. We weren't two stiff poles rigid in our seats by a longg shot but we never touched. He hugged me and that was as close as physical went. I'm a neverbeenkissed 20 year old so he knew my boundaries and he stuck around, before I ditched on him, dating me- dinners, movies, and lunches like I said. Called me during class one day and pissed me off. Emailed my friends to see if I had said anything to them.

 

Yet, Please Dr. Caramel tell me fortune, situation and life story. I'm sure you know it better than I.

[caramel c]

I think I must have pushed some buttons. People don't like it when guys go back on their words, I guess.

 

But allow me to assure you of something Caramel C- the guy had to have respected me enough or I wouldn't have tolerated it. Unlike you, I can't say I can read his mind but I know my self damn well. We weren't two stiff poles rigid in our seats by a longg shot but we never touched. He hugged me and that was as close as physical went. I'm a neverbeenkissed 20 year old so he knew my boundaries and he stuck around, before I ditched on him, dating me- dinners, movies, and lunches like I said. Called me during class one day and pissed me off. Emailed my friends to see if I had said anything to them.

 

Yet, Please Dr. Caramel tell me fortune, situation and life story. I'm sure you know it better than I.

 

No worries.

 

I'm not a mind reader and I don't have a crystal ball. What I do have, is this quote from you:

 

'The guy I wanted to validate me didn't turn out to be so great of a person. He always wondered why he didn't have any friends or people who liked him. He was a perve, reduced meaningful conversations to sex jokes, and embarrassed me in front of some of my friends with his lustful comments.'

 

which is what formed my opinion on the matter.

 

Sorry if I've offended you, it was not my intention. I just have a different point of view than you do, and I thought maybe you could benefit from hearing it.

[Chicago_Guy]

Because clearly alot of men consider women disposable. And that is why I think all women loose here. 20 or 40. Because no matter our age, we are just fighting a loosing battle with men and they don't care. They jsut turn their head for the next new shiney object in their line of vision.

 

There is something very FEMALE about wanting to be attractive and sexy. Men don't hit a certain age and stop wanting to feel like men but women hit a certain age and want to put women down and expect them to not want to feel those things anymore.

 

How many guys on here either brag about dating younger women or think it makes them more of a man? The message is men thing younger women are better and because very woman on the planent ages women are pretty much worthless pieces of crap to men, only important to them depending on their age.

 

Alot of guys around here make it seem like women should settle for being unlovable.

 

Jersey, you act as though guys are totally screwing over innocent women here.

 

What about the women who refuse to "settle" for a particular guy because they think that guy is "boring" or want to play the field only to discover years later in life that the type of guys who would have settled down with them years ago are either married or no longer interested because they found other women who treat them better? Are those women somehow being screwed over?

[Trialbyfire]

No, the ageism doesn't bother me on this forum. The only way someone can make you feel useless, is because you believe you're useless.

[Jersey Shortie]

That's not an excuse to trash women of any age, however. But I think it's healthy for men to be honest about what they find attractive, and ditto for women.

 

While I agree with this basic message, the perception about what consitutes as healthy can be hugely differently interpertated.And people are more times then not, balanced.

 

 

Again, you are saying that a handful of guys who act like that represent the majority on here. Then you take the views of a few and apply it in your own arguments against everyone.

 

Enough of the strawman tactics Jersey.

 

And again, when you dated older men, what was it that attracted you to them

?

 

That is one over used word "strawman". I am not sure most people even know what it means. There is nothing strawman about my arguments.

 

When it came to the older men that I dated, they more attracted to me then I was to them. I liked them as people but I wasn't wildly attracted to them. Biology and all you know. While older men are more establishe, biologically, they are not as attractvie as their younger counterparts. They wanted to settledown, I just wanted some fun life experience. Actually, when I was younger I had much more respect for older men. But after having experienced some things and seeing how men around these forums talk about women, I plan on treating men just as they treat women. Sadly, I think alot of older men try to chase younger women and end up screwed over for it. But they kind of deserve it.

[Trimmer]

Then you are a better human being then me Trimmer. *rolls eyes.

I regret using your words to make my point to the OP, and it really was her I was talking to, not you. But I realize how you could not take it as any other way than an attack on you, and for that I apologize.

 

I am better - at putting male/female interactions into perspective, and avoiding overgeneralizing from my own few interactions in real life and "in this forum" to the wider arena of "men" and "women." But that doesn't mean for a minute that I'm a "better human being" than you. Go ahead and play the martyr and wring your hands, if it makes you feel better, though.

 

Whether you like it or not, there are certain things that make women feel like women and men like men. Does a woman's inherent feeling to want to be beautiful, loved and cherished mean she is incompletely, selfish, needy or co-dependent. NO. And to make such an assumption really shows your own inability to be a fully completely human being. Does it mean that I do not have personal goals and attributes and expectations, outside or within relationships and romance that I try to live up to? Again, of course not. That would be a foolish assumption to make.

Indeed, and you missed my point if that's what you think I said. I was not saying that a woman who relies on a man for reflection of her identity cannot be complete (as you are questioning above.) I am saying that if a woman who relies on a man does not feel complete without the presence of a man and his validation, and is unhappy as a result, that with some work, it might be possible to change her outlook and come to a realization that she can be complete without a man.

 

I'm not claiming, as you seem to imply, that there is something wrong with any woman who wants or needs a man in her life. I'm saying - to the OP - that if that makes you unhappy, there may be another path to completeness that can relieve your anguish, before having to fill that void with a relationship.

 

You preach about defining one's self through romance.

I'm not "preaching" that it's evil or immoral to define yourself through romance, I'm saying if that's not working for you and you are unhappy about it, here's another path. Again, I'm sorry for using your own example to make my point, and I understand how it put you on the defensive.

 

You preach about defining one's self through romance. How about defining one's self through goals accomplished or not accomplished. Is that any more noble or born less out of a desire for validation in some form?

Again, I'm not talking about nobility, or morality, or right or wrong, and you are misunderstanding to hear my comments in that context. But I do believe that setting goals for oneself can be a more fulfilling path than defining oneself through success or failure of romance.

 

It's odious to assume that matters of the heart are the only things that define people. Or that just because someone has a desire to be treated how God infact intended women to be treated, that they are only wrapped up in this or this is what defines them. It isn't ME that is defning anything. It is ironically infact YOU who are making your own judgments and defining others based on a limited pool of information.

Somehow you've taken my points and turned them completely around. MY WHOLE POINT is that you should NOT define yourself only by "matters of the heart" - that's exactly what I'm saying. Don't say "a man think I'm worthless, so I'm unlovable."

 

I'm not trying to define anyone as worthless or unlovable - I'm saying don't count on a man's reflection to be able to define yourself as valuable and worthy and human.

 

With that being said, whether you can admit it or not, men and women garner a certain amount of validation from the opposite sex. Is that bad? Is that selfish? Is that vapid? No. It's human.

My gosh, am I hearing what I think I'm hearing? You are actually admitting that men and women get mutual benefit from their relationships? That's such an uplifting statement from you that I'm just going to yield on that point, as I don't want to ruin the moment.

 

I don't sit around looking for validation from men. However, I won't deny my very feminine desires just because you as a man find them trite, silly or selfish when they are NONE of those things.

I never said, nor intimated, that such desires were trite, silly, or selfish - you are overreaching, and probably projecting. I can't defend something I didn't say.

[allina]

No. Though even at 26 I sometimes worry about how quickly I'm approaching 30 I feel like years just fly by.

[allina]

The thing that I do find irritating is that when a man doesn't want to date an overweight/ugly woman he is supported and told that we all have standards and that he deserves what he's attracted to.

 

Often, when women express not wanting to date a short or broke guy they're attacked and called shallow, bitches or gold diggers.

 

I think men get away with more on here, maybe too many women are afraid of Woggle to speak up sometimes

[northstar1]

While I agree with this basic message, the perception about what consitutes as healthy can be hugely differently interpertated.And people are more times then not, balanced.

 

 

?

 

That is one over used word "strawman". I am not sure most people even know what it means. There is nothing strawman about my arguments.

 

When it came to the older men that I dated, they more attracted to me then I was to them. I liked them as people but I wasn't wildly attracted to them. Biology and all you know. While older men are more establishe, biologically, they are not as attractvie as their younger counterparts. They wanted to settledown, I just wanted some fun life experience. Actually, when I was younger I had much more respect for older men. But after having experienced some things and seeing how men around these forums talk about women, I plan on treating men just as they treat women. Sadly, I think alot of older men try to chase younger women and end up screwed over for it. But they kind of deserve it.

 

I do have a grasp on the definition of the term, and I needed to look no further than your rebuttal to Trimmer to find it.

 

It is too bad that your past experiences with dating have seemed to have left you with such bad taste in your mouth. It would be a shame to go through the rest of your life believing there is no one out there who will respect you for who you are Jersey.

[bac]

If you are afraid of aging, you may want to make some effort during your life to look younger. Take care of your body. For example, you may count calories in your food to make sure that your weight is perfect. You may exercise. You may do some job on your face as well. If you take care of your body and face, you will look better.

You can improve your chances with men by better communication skills and sexual abilities. There is a chance that with life experience you will be able to learn how to deal with males successfully. There is a chance that you may learn more about sex. So, you may understand what is good about sex and gain some more sexual power to attract men. Sexual power and confidence are not about woman's appearance.

[Jersey Shortie]

I regret using your words to make my point to the OP, and it really was her I was talking to, not you. But I realize how you could not take it as any other way than an attack on you, and for that I apologize.

 

Trimmer, regardless of who your comments were addressed to, you used my post to qoute and prove points that were untrue. As a standing message board, it opens the doors to discussion outside of who you address or don't address.

 

I am better - at putting male/female interactions into perspective, and avoiding overgeneralizing from my own few interactions in real life and "in this forum" to the wider arena of "men" and "women." But that doesn't mean for a minute that I'm a "better human being" than you. Go ahead and play the martyr and wring your hands, if it makes you feel better, though.

 

It's all a matter of perspective for everyone here. Your ability to use persepctive is no different then anyone else's. Your views are born out of your experiences, just like most people here. As for playing the martyr, that has nothing to do with anything. And I think that it's a diversion from the real topic at hand.

 

Indeed, and you missed my point if that's what you think I said. I was not saying that a woman who relies on a man for reflection of her identity cannot be complete (as you are questioning above.) I am saying that if a woman who relies on a man does not feel complete without the presence of a man and his validation, and is unhappy as a result, that with some work, it might be possible to change her outlook and come to a realization that she can be complete without a man.

 

But the subject of this thread never was if you felt complete as a woman with or without a man. The subject was in regards to the opinions men hold on women regarding their looks and age and so forth. Being able to discuss this topic and have your own opinions and feelings on it, no matter what they be, doesn't mean you aren't a complete person. Does any one man or woman get complete validation from the opposite sex? Hopefully not, because that would be unhealthy. However, it's natural for women or men to worry and consider the things that the opposite sex gender values them for. Both genders have power on certain points and both genders have the ablility to abuse that power. Some infact do.

 

 

I'm not claiming, as you seem to imply, that there is something wrong with any woman who wants or needs a man in her life. I'm saying - to the OP - that if that makes you unhappy, there may be another path to completeness that can relieve your anguish, before having to fill that void with a relationship.

 

Why does there need to be a void to observe the comments that are made on this board or in real life about women from men and to discuss them and naturally wonder or feel concern over them?

 

 

I'm not "preaching" that it's evil or immoral to define yourself through romance, I'm saying if that's not working for you and you are unhappy about it, here's another path.

 

It seemed to me that you were saying that it was more noble to define yourself through unromantic action then romantic action. I am glad to see that you believe there are many ways people define themselves and one way is not more noble then the other.

 

Again, I'm not talking about nobility, or morality, or right or wrong, and you are misunderstanding to hear my comments in that context. But I do believe that setting goals for oneself can be a more fulfilling path than defining oneself through success or failure of romance.

 

Setting goals for oneself that reach outside the romantic is excellent. And I don't recall anyone here saying otherwise. However, you set those goals because you have certain needs and desires. Those needs and desires come from the same place that your romantic needs or relationship needs and desires come from. Women tend to be more relationship oriented. And in life, in the heart of who they are, believe that relationships are the foundation of what makes life worth living. Not only romantic relationships but relationships we are able to build with are mothers, fathers, sibliings and friends. Perhaps for you personally, certain job related goals is a more fulfilling path. And there is nothing wrong with that. Men tend to be more likely to define themselves through their jobs. When a man loses a job, he does infact at the time feel like he failed. It doesn't mean he is an imcomplete person though because we are all works in progress. When a woman fails at a relationship, she can easily feel the same way a man might feel losing a job.

 

I disagree with the notion that setting career minded goals defines you more as a person then setting more relationship-geared goals. I think all these together support different facets of our lives and develops are character in different ways. To think one is better then the other or that one side defines you more then the other, seems to me that you would be denying a big part of yourself and yuor needs.

 

 

Somehow you've taken my points and turned them completely around. MY WHOLE POINT is that you should NOT define yourself only by "matters of the heart" - that's exactly what I'm saying. Don't say "a man think I'm worthless, so I'm unlovable."

 

No you shouldn't. Just as you should not define yourself only through matter of goals. But just because we are able to not define who we are by these things, doesn't mean we stil ldon't think about them, judge them, try to see how we fit into the picture and not want men or women to value us beyond the most shallow of indulgences.

 

I'm not trying to define anyone as worthless or unlovable - I'm saying don't count on a man's reflection to be able to define yourself as valuable and worthy and human.

 

Do you count on your ability to meet your goals as an indicator of how worth you are as a human being?

 

 

My gosh, am I hearing what I think I'm hearing? You are actually admitting that men and women get mutual benefit from their relationships? That's such an uplifting statement from you that I'm just going to yield on that point, as I don't want to ruin the moment.

 

No need to be condesending Trimmer, or mocking.

 

I never said, nor intimated, that such desires were trite, silly, or selfish - you are overreaching, and probably projecting. I can't defend something I didn't say.

 

You didn't say it, I did. That was my perception. You seem to hold more stock in goals that are related to job career or things of that nature. My only point is that one is not more lofty then the other. And women often do define themselves through relationships just as men more often define themselves through career minded goals. One does not make you more of a whole person then the other. One is not more silly then the other.

[looking4 green grass]

I'm approaching 30 (a few months away) and I've never noticed a drop off in the number of men interested in me. I can be very shy, so for me, the opposite of what you are asking is true. As I've grown as a person, I have become more confident in myself and I have more suitors. (Unfortunately they are still as crazy as they were 10 years ago.....where oh where can my prince charming be?? I'd be fine with Prince Normal at this point.)

 

My last boyfriend was 36, my new one is 23. Don't worry about limiting yourself to one age group. Most of my also 30 single friends will date up or down significantly in age, we just date who we like and stop worrying about the rest.

[Jersey Shortie]

I'm glad to hear that looking4greengrass. Alot of guys here seem to think that women drop dead at 30.

[Jaytb]

Alot of guys here seem to think that women drop dead at 30.

 

who? Seriously, where is this happening? I don't get it at all.

[Silly24]

I'm 38 and newly single. I've entered the dating scene and I can't keep the young men off me!!! Seriously, it's overwhelming!! And yes, most want a longterm relationship.