I have slipped

September 3, 2009

Syd... may I rely honestly as the Other Woman and how I would respond to his W?

Honestly, I never felt like I was in the marriage. We didn't beat the Wife up, make her look bad, talk about how bad the marriage was or talk about the Marriage... we really didn't. In it, I never wanted to know about thier relationship and didn't ask ( perhaps because it would have made her human to me)

What did I expect... In the perfect world? One of two things...

One - Our affair would naturally loose it's grounding and we would part ways without her ever knowing.

Two - We would spend the time for both to ensure we could move forward and work through a seperation/divorce on his part. He would do that without sharing the information about the Affair.

That is honest.... I truly did not want her hurt... of course that was stupid and DDay and the weeks that followed were truly all about the realization/guilt of the pain I caused her. Wasn't until week 3 that I even started considering my life, losing him, etc.

I don't know your particular situation but it is very possible the answers you seek are simple and not nearly as premeditated as it may appear.

Trouble is, if she said that... I am guessing there would be anger ( How could you not think of me, etc)

Just a guess.... but I doubt it would make you feel any better.

I too have thought about talking to BS.... on two occasions and I just don't see what either of us would benefit from.

September 3, 2009

Syd... may I rely honestly as the Other Woman and how I would respond to his W?

Honestly, I never felt like I was in the marriage. We didn't beat the Wife up, make her look bad, talk about how bad the marriage was or talk about the Marriage... we really didn't. In it, I never wanted to know about thier relationship and didn't ask ( perhaps because it would have made her human to me)

What did I expect... In the perfect world? One of two things...

One - Our affair would naturally loose it's grounding and we would part ways without her ever knowing.

Two - We would spend the time for both to ensure we could move forward and work through a seperation/divorce on his part. He would do that without sharing the information about the Affair.

That is honest.... I truly did not want her hurt... of course that was stupid and DDay and the weeks that followed were truly all about the realization/guilt of the pain I caused her. Wasn't until week 3 that I even started considering my life, losing him, etc.

I don't know your particular situation but it is very possible the answers you seek are simple and not nearly as premeditated as it may appear.

Trouble is, if she said that... I am guessing there would be anger ( How could you not think of me, etc)

Just a guess.... but I doubt it would make you feel any better.

I too have thought about talking to BS.... on two occasions and I just don't see what either of us would benefit from.

Sanafa

I don't know if your situation fit the "normal" MM/OW scenerio.

I think in many cases, whether the OW thinks she is involved in the M or not, she IS a factor, even if the BW doesn't know about her.

Because of the affair, the MM redirects his time, attention and.....presence from the w and M to the affair and OW. On top of this, the weight of the lies and the hiding involved makes the WS withdraw from the BS even more.

I think while in the affair, many OW either try not to even acknowledge that the W exists or they vilify her to the point that she is not a human worth considering so you are probaly right that Sid will not get any answers from her.

In your case, I think MM had been hiding from his W for a long time before you came along.

September 3, 2009

Sanafa

I don't know if your situation fit the "normal" MM/OW scenerio.
I think in many cases, whether the OW thinks she is involved in the M or not, she IS a factor, even if the BW doesn't know about her.

Because of the affair, the MM redirects his time, attention and.....presence from the w and M to the affair and OW. On top of this, the weight of the lies and the hiding involved makes the WS withdraw from the BS even more.

I think while in the affair, many OW either try not to even acknowledge that the W exists or they vilify her to the point that she is not a human worth considering so you are probaly right that Sid will not get any answers from her.

In your case, I think MM had been hiding from his W for a long time before you came along.

This may be true.... but I do think visiting "alternatives" is different than a full on Affair. He did have guilt, a great deal and struggled as we both did.

I do also agree that we as the OW totally avoid thinking about the W... in my case not to think she was worthless but to avoid being reminded she was just like me, a woman.

September 3, 2009

This may be true.... but I do think visiting "alternatives" is different than a full on Affair. He did have guilt, a great deal and struggled as we both did.

I do also agree that we as the OW totally avoid thinking about the W... in my case not to think she was worthless but to avoid being reminded she was just like me, a woman.

This is very honest.

Ok Sorry for the t/j

BUT

Sanafa

Do you think your MM had his w on some kind of sexual pedestal? Evidently he never tried to share his sexual needs with his w. As I type this question I realize that some could see it as a put down, but truly I don't mean it that way.

I mean, I have wondered in my own life if my H trying to live up to his image of what a H is supposed to look like only saw me through the prism of what a wife is supposed to look like. AND in his prism, there were some things that a w would not say, understand or do.

Of course all the assumptions contributed to his failure to be the kind of H he wanted to be and he cheated.

I guess I am wondering if you MM saw his wife as a label (wife) and not a woman.

September 3, 2009

This is very honest.

Ok Sorry for the t/j

BUT

Sanafa

Do you think your MM had his w on some kind of sexual pedestal? Evidently he never tried to share his sexual needs with his w. As I type this question I realize that some could see it as a put down, but truly I don't mean it that way.

I mean, I have wondered in my own life if my H trying to live up to his image of what a H is supposed to look like only saw me through the prism of what a wife is supposed to look like. AND in his prism, there were some things that a w would not say, understand or do.

Of course all the assumptions contributed to his failure to be the kind of H he wanted to be and he cheated.

I guess I am wondering if you MM saw his wife as a label (wife) and not a woman.

Honestly, I think perhaps there is some truth to it. We truly never discussed her other than once at a dinner. His take ( take it with a grain of salt) was this and to be honest, I believe a great deal of it.

They were similar - VERY aggressive in the corporate world with the same love of their work in the same industry. They got married at the correct time, waited the correct time, had two beautiful girls and went on to build a very successful business. I honestly believe he viewed her as a "partner" a wonderful lady he respected but he was honest ( again I do believe) that they lived parallel lives. She is also very conservative on the work/home front, add a vanilla sex life ( not a bad one just vanilla) and I am sure he thought she would never understand/want to experience the play stuff.

So, yes in many ways he seen her as his wife/partner/business partner.... but as they agreed they love each other but are unsure if they ever had intimacy. They shared the same goals and wants and focused on that while providing a great home for their girls.

September 3, 2009

Honestly, I think perhaps there is some truth to it. We truly never discussed her other than once at a dinner. His take ( take it with a grain of salt) was this and to be honest, I believe a great deal of it.

They were similar - VERY aggressive in the corporate world with the same love of their work in the same industry. They got married at the correct time, waited the correct time, had two beautiful girls and went on to build a very successful business. I honestly believe he viewed her as a "partner" a wonderful lady he respected but he was honest ( again I do believe) that they lived parallel lives. She is also very conservative on the work/home front, add a vanilla sex life ( not a bad one just vanilla) and I am sure he thought she would never understand/want to experience the play stuff.

So, yes in many ways he seen her as his wife/partner/business partner.... but as they agreed they love each other but are unsure if they ever had intimacy. They shared the same goals and wants and focused on that while providing a great home for their girls.

Thank you for answering my question.

September 3, 2009

Syd,

I just now read a little of your history and you know.... the situation is so similar it is almost scarey.

I truly see so much of your story in theirs. The going out of the marriage for years and the alternatives chosen. I truly do commend you for trying, and I guess my biggest question - " How could she stay after all she knows" has very much been answered by reading just a little of your history.

Your mountain was enormous... and I told him that the last day I seen him.

Can I ask you something ( please you do not have to answer and please please do not be offended). After DDay, did you discuss his needs in the bedroom? The reason I ask is because he believed her when she said she would be willing to engage in additional activities ( threesome or dom) and I always struggle with the idea that she would try but hinder her own process by doing for him rather than for her.

Again, no need to answer but we do have similar stories as far as the H's history of years of going outside and I truly do have a new found respect for you.

September 3, 2009

Syd,

I just now read a little of your history and you know.... the situation is so similar it is almost scarey.

I truly see so much of your story in theirs. The going out of the marriage for years and the alternatives chosen. I truly do commend you for trying, and I guess my biggest question - " How could she stay after all she knows" has very much been answered by reading just a little of your history.

Your mountain was enormous... and I told him that the last day I seen him.

Can I ask you something ( please you do not have to answer and please please do not be offended). After DDay, did you discuss his needs in the bedroom? The reason I ask is because he believed her when she said she would be willing to engage in additional activities ( threesome or dom) and I always struggle with the idea that she would try but hinder her own process by doing for him rather than for her.

Again, no need to answer but we do have similar stories as far as the H's history of years of going outside and I truly do have a new found respect for you.

I'm sure there are a lot of similarities. My d-day was horrendous as I found out everything on the same day - sex workers, long term affair and dating websites. I found out about the affair and a few details about a dating website myself - I was basically confirming suspicions I'd had for a few days. I was at home by myself and called him at work to tell him what I'd discovered. The rest of it - ie the fact that there had been other dating websites and visits to sex workers (alternatives as you've called it) he came home and confessed.

The first thing he said when he got home was that he would break off with the OW and asked if I could forgive him. To be honest I was in no position whatsoever to be laying down any rules as I knew nothing about recovering from infidelity - if I'd been on LS before I would already have know the right thing to do. I said I would forgive him (but realistically I had no idea what I was agreeing to) provided he told me exactly what it was I was supposed to forgive. He then told me about the sex workers and some specific sexual activities with them as well as other encounters with women from dating websites and other stuff as well which I won't go into.

It took about a week for the other details such as secret accounts etc to come out but all the "gory" details were revealed on d-day. I sometimes wonder if there's more but somehow I doubt it because I can't imagine what more there could be that is "worse" than I already know.

Before d-day I had an inkling that something was up and had taken very active steps to improve our sex life. Like many married couples we had a lean time for a while, compounded by the fact that my only pregnancy resulted in twins (a twin pregnancy can be very different to a single one I'm told) and near death for me at their birth. This meant sex took a back seat for a long time.

Anyway to answer your question about his "bedroom needs" - yes we definitely discussed it and not just his. I am neither a prude nor lacking in desire for an active sex life. But I can switch it off if I sense that he's not very interested and that's basically what had happened to us over quite a long period. However fortunately we were both able to switch it back on. I don't like to think too deeply about the reasons for that as if I do I always end up trying to fathom why this should be - perhaps a very primal reaction. I've seen it called hysterical bonding but as it's been going on for over 10 months now I find it hard to believe it's a temporary thing at least for us.

There's no way I'm just doing it for him - I know I couldn't fake it like that. What's more I'm fairly sure he's not faking it either. In other words it's not a duty thing and certainly not a chore for either of us.

He says he wishes we had discussed such things years ago and so do I. I think he had put me in the wife/mother pigeon hole and certainly in the 2 years it took me to recover from my children's birth, motherhood really took over. I breastfed my twins for most of that time and for many women including me, pregnancy and breastfeeding are difficult times in which to lead an active sex life. Having 2 premature babies that took 4 years before they had a continuous night's sleep just added to it.

I know that our problem was that after we were over the difficult years we never ever quite got back to what it had been before. At some stage he gave up hope of having the lover in me he'd had before and I was too busy with my children's lives. It is their 15th birthday today so you can see it's been a long time.

I hope I have answered your question Sanafa - I don't want to get into specifics of my sex life - I've already revealed far more than I should have, but don't be too surprised if your MM's wife is in fact experimenting and enjoying it.

S

PS - Still no reply from the OW - I'm actually starting to believe that she is finally out of our lives and has perhaps moved on with her own.

September 3, 2009

Thanks Syd

They were similar. I have told pieces here and a little more detail on the OW board primarily because I felt safer there.

Our DDay was to a large extent at my hands. I was away working for 2 weeks in May and had brought a friend to assist with the program. On about day 2 or 3, it seemed redundant that she sat through it so I offered her my laptop and sent her on her way.

That was the beginning of the end. I hadn't password protected anything and while she was aware of the affair and had actually met MM... she obviously had no idea about our private life.

Apparently it was her tipping point....so instead of addressing what she seen as "terrible" things... she kept quiet went home and her and hubby decided we all needed some tough love.

During the early part of June I didn't really notice there was no contact... I was busy with MM who I had been apart from and living the life so to speak. On the 22nd, All three of us received the first of a couple anonymous emails. Ironically, a second, independent person also sent the W a letter that morning ( bizarre that both would choose that day) but regardless... things unraveled quickly.

2 days later we recieved more suggestions and it was clear the person wanted 3 things to happen.... ensure I was dumped, ensure MM was dumped and ensure we wouldn't go back to each other.

It took over 6 weeks to peice together who it was... and it wasn't until my best friend and his W recieved the final peice (a letter that was copied and sent to me as well) that I could finally put it all together. My bestfriend and his W were told all the gory details and that both I and her H were "sinful" and they should be concerned about us being around the children, etc.

When I finally put it all together... I didn't know what to do. I knew they had used information to look like I had done it ( no one else would have known) but I also knew it was and is still possible that she has gallery after gallery of pictures that could do even more damage.

By then we were NC and I truly felt like he believed I did it... I still wonder and it still drives me crazy. I think the guilt was compounded for me because in truth I might as well have shot the gun- I certainly loaded it for them.

I have remain quiet ( had words with the saviour) but was also concerned about MM losing it and causing more trouble if she did save pic's, etc.

It was a mess. He did decide to put the last ten years out there and in truth as I said to him... I did think it had changed things.

I had never expected him to leave unless it was a long planned, agreed to separation... but I couldn't and I guess still can't wrap my head around how his W can deal with the ongoing betrayal.

Not saying she shouldn't just looking at it from my perspective and I truly could never trust him again, no matter how much I wanted to. The years of betrayal and the ease in which it was carried out for me would far outweigh the ability to let it go and I know I wouldn't be able to regain my confidence.

As for the sex... I know some OW really get annoyed at the thought... I was asking about the "activities" rather than what may or may not be happening now. I do know she had serious confidence issues in that area prior to DDay....and I truly feel for her as I don't think this was the help she was needing.

It's a mess... I struggle everyday with missing him, feeling bad for her and loving him enough to want him to be happy.... and then flipping and being angry and incredibly hurt. While he feels he may have been betrayed... I of course have feeling that it was far too easy for him and also have dealt with a 20 year friendship that was clearly not what I thought it was. Certainly has don't much for my confidence in myself and my decisions.

P.S

Glad to hear the OW didn't respond and that is an area I have no idea what I would do if addressed. I personally don't think she will....but as we see -- sometimes it is something the BS or OW feels they need to do.

September 3, 2009